bigrig77

From a person who has been in and around the fire service for the 28 Years, I can not think of any reason to do this.
Even if you used webbing to tie off the the end on the ladder, this is NUTS!!!
Come on, This is a NIOSH report waiting to happen.
Stay safe.

WHY?

Yup.
The End.

It's the same location, it's located in different wings in one building, but it is not the same thing by any means. 60 control is staffed by their own dispatchers and handles dispatch and communications, no training. The Westchester County Fire Training Center is staffed by their own staff and instructors and handles the training needs of the county. They are two completely separate entities, they don't cross staff or hate responsibilities. It's a good idea to get your facts straight before you open up your mouth, especially when you want to keep insisting you're right when you're actually dead wrong.

You must have a tough time at the mall.

27 years and you don't know the difference between 60 Control and the Westchester Fire Training Center. Interesting and telling

27 years and you don't know the difference between 60 Control and the Westchester Fire Training Center. Interesting and telling

1. There is NOTHING wrong with any publicity that puts your department in a positive light. It can help gain members, gain support from the community and - for those that depend on it - possibly garner donations.
2. 60 Control is the Communications Division of the Westchester County Department of Emergency Services. We (60 Control) are not the instructors providing the training mentioned.
3. From what I have seen over time as a Training Officer / Chief Officer with the WCFTC is that you occasionally have a bad apple in the bunch, and once people bring this to light, they are cut loose. I feel that the current staff of instructors is professional and courteous based on my most recent drills / classes I have taken as a member of my FD.
4. Pubic... HAHAHA.
5. Am I the only one that often wishes "Res24cue" would just go away with his crying and whining?

They quit! Why?
1. Last time I checked this was a team sport! The success of an operation cannot and should not be determined by the actions of the few (or the individual). When a member constantly trains and studies, but is surrounded by novices who can't perform simple functions, he (or she) will be discouraged. It is hard to be proud of or confident in your organization or your team when you know exactly what needs to be done on the fireground and are prepared for every emergency, but everyone else doesn't. It is discouraging to consistently do your job exactly by the book and have every operation fail because no one else read it.
2. It is dangerous! To be a knowledgeable and aggressive firefighter is a good thing. However, when an individual is experience and talented but surrounded by novices, who can you count on to come to your aid when the s*** hits the fan. Instead, it hampers your ability because you have to be overcautious since no one else can keep up (or get scared) and no one can get you out should you get into trouble (it happens to the best of us!).
3. Frustration! It gets tiring to know exactly what needs to be done to resolve and incident but have other people consistently screw things up! You get tired of having ceilings pulled down on you; you get tired of waiting for water because your CPO can figure out how to pull the right levers; you get tired of having rooms flash when you are in them because your outside vent team doesn't know how to properly vent horizontally and introduces too much oxygen to the fire; you get tired of having no back-up man on the knob because the guy behind you couldn't find his gloves; you get tired of telling your crew to pull a 2 1/2 with a smooth bore and getting an 1 3/4 with a fog tip! After a while you just realize that they don't care and that you don't want to be a part of them anymore.
4. Ostracization! When you are part of the small minority that actually cares about training, firematics, and performace, but 46 of the other 50 members of the organization only care about parades and pancake dinners, then you become the a******! You are the guy who is always critiquing everyone; you are the guy who is always telling people how to improve; and you are the guy who takes things too seriously (after all "We are just volunteers!"). So even though all you want to do is teach others and improve the effectiveness of your department, you are always the a****** who is ruining the fork and knifers' good time and telling them that they are doing it wrong! So instead of moving up because you are the most well-trained, you are voted out and replaced with the head clown in the popularity contest that they call an election because everyone loves him!
Thats why they quit...

As a fire instructor I had to again notice the push back from the chief who stated he only had to take a 60 hr course, and now it is 112 hrs. "Who wants to drive 2x a week to Carmel". It is thinking like that NY State is on the lower
end of FF-1 course hours. And that always leads to the Career vs Volunteer debate. The last class of recruits traveled 5x a week, 8 hrs a day, for 16 weeks. That is 640 Hrs. With the constant threat of failing out due to poor grades, or not being able to pass CPAT. 19 out of 20 that started finished. It isn't a game, it isn't about how many members your
dept has, it is about giving the customer the service that is expected from a group of people that raised their right hand a swore to protect to the best of their ability the life and property of the residents of their community. If we do nothing the fire will still go out. The ends don't justify the means. TRAINING TRAINING TRAINING AND DEDICATED MEMBERS.

Dinosaur, I guess you are not a veteran! This man gave up 6 years of his life for his country and his home town. He does deserve more!

I don't think the issue here is money. He believes they do not need anything.

This happened on May 30 1973, . I was 5 years old at the time. I remember hearing the explosion and then my house shook for about 3 minutes, and I was about 3 miles away from it. The SS Esso Brussels & SS Sea Witch collided Just North of the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge then drifted under the bridge while still on fire. I remember one of the boats was pushed to the shore line after the fire was "put out" it sat there for weeks smoldering about 25 feet from land.
The lower level of the bridge was closed for weeks, and then opened and closed for repairs for a few years due to this.
This is possibly the biggest Maritime Incident in NYC history. Here is a link with some info
http://wikimapia.org/10471086/SS-Esso-Brussels-SS-Sea-Witch-Collision-Site and a pic of that night. Does anyone remember this or any other major Maritime Incident in NY

.

Once again proving that the gene pool needs a really heavy dose of chlorine

In the past its been referred to as thinning the herd.
Darwin refers to this as strengthening the gene pool and survival of the fittest

This goes to show, yet again, you can never underestimate how stupid people can be.

First, let me say, I am not commenting on this specific case, rather in generalities which have a connection to this case.
Medical Examiner determinations are very different from legal/police definitions.
Medical Examiners generally have five classifications (there is a sixth in New York City).
Natural
Suicide
Homicide
Accident
Undetermined (Rarely used when none of four above can truly be determined, despite all best efforts)
(NYC Only: Complication of Therapeutic or Diagnostic Procedures)
Homicide from a Medical Examiners perspective means ‘‘occurs when death results from...’’ an injury or poisoning or
from ‘‘...a volitional act committed by another person to cause fear, harm, or death. Intent to cause death is a common element but is not required for classification as homicide.’’ It merely means the death was caused by another person. Not all deaths caused by another person meet the legal/penal law definition of homicide. Here is the perfect example. A guy breaks into your house and you shoot him dead. The Medical Examiner classification for that is homicide, as it was caused by another person (you). However, from a legal perspective, you had the law on you side and you committed no legal violation whatsoever. The two areas are often conflated, but they are essentially only tangentially related. Another interesting exception exists with DWI fatalities. But that's another story.

Here's a great and detailed write up by Steve Spak in firsthand story format:
http://stevespak.com/waldbaums.html
And the NIST report:
http://www.fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/fire97/art141.html
RIP to those who died yet taught us many lessons saving many future lives.

Hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!
Implement a plan that would consolidate school districts, fire districts, and other feifdoms? Never happen!

When Will The Westchester 2000 Plan Be Implemented To Form A Westchester County Fire Department And Avoid Duplication Of Services, Too Many Officer Positions And Outrageous Fire Department Budgets ????

I couldn't disagree more. I know of more than a few guys who have ZERO business being in the "fire service" yet they are still considered "volly firemen" and they parade around on scenes dressed in half turnout gear doing absolutely nothing but getting in the way. In the professional world this is not tolerated.
Now before you freak out i will say there are MANY great volly firemen in this county and i RESPECT that greatly. Not to get way off topic here but ever think the vol fire service should be a little more selective when letting people "join" aside from just being a resident of that particular area and having a clean background?

All that does is get an otherwise unstaffed rig show up faster and fool the public into thinking they are protected. It is more likely the rig will roll without any additional members, thus delaying the proper response as it forces members to drive their POV's to the scene. This becomes a bigger problem as the district gets larger.

Here's my attempt at constructive criticism which I believe you open yourself up to when you post it for the world to see.
I have learned more about fire behavior in the last 5 years than in the 15 before that and I know everyone has not gotten there yet but we're working on it.
The fire was ventilation limited on arrival. I would have closed the front door until I was ready to enter. It would have limited the air the fire was getting.
Don't change the nozzle just make sure you have a straight stream.
I had no issue with the little hit they gave it from the outside it has the potential to make the push easier. That's all that was needed 10 seconds and then go in.
Use a 2 1/2 if you're not going in. Stick with the 1.75 if you will be going inside it's all about speed and maneuverability.
When there's one person in charge of the line it works better than getting advice from a few people.
You can become much faster and proficient with drilling. Practice pulling up stretching a line, masking up, and having water in 2 minutes or less.

How bout this suggestion.....
Save your silly helmet cam for your next family trip and spend more time focused on getting water on the fire.
All of our new wonders in the service are more focused on crafting the next big fire/rock video for the annual banquet (which probably consumes 50% of the Depts annual budget), than learning the fundamentals of their trade.