Dinosaur

Probably not but a lot of other fireground activities can (should) be halted to effect the rescue so you can reassign resources to the rescue effort. It also speaks volumes about having resources staged and not simply operating. If you kept an engine and truck company staged and this happened you'd have at least six additional FF's to assist. But since most departments can't operate without mutual aid, they're reluctant to call extra for staging because they'll be viewed as having abused the mutual aid. That's BS
You don't need special funding to analyze and evaluate your operations. That's part of the job that is most often overlooked. How many chief's do after action analyses of their working jobs? Not too many sadly.
As good as most departments may be there's always room for improvement.

This is not about you and nobody is criticizing you personally. So... (wait for it)... QTIP! (Where have I heard that before?)
Standards should be consistent in EMS so the person dialing 911 gets quality care in a reasonable amount of time from competent and professional providers. There shouldn't be a different standard because one crew is volunteer and one is paid. The demand or expectation that there be different standards "because I'm a volunteer" is what most people have issues with.
When there is no distinction, no double standard, no expectation of preferential treatment based on pay status you'll have an argument. In the meantime, the system is broken and we have to fix it.
To respond to your comment specifically, those in the volunteer sector who resist minimum standards, quality improvement programs, training, rostering in station to reduce response times, argue against paid members despite the fact that they can't cover their calls, etc. are preventing meaningful improvements and while I wouldn't call them a "nuisance" are perpetuating the problem.
If Empress (for example) covered only 75% of their calls in Yonkers do you think it would (should) be tolerated? Why do we tolerate it in the volunteer sector?
Empress has to maintain enough units to cover their calls and their call volume is more than 10 times that of most volunteer agencies. When a volunteer agency can't consistently staff ONE unit for ONE call there is a problem.
Stop crying the volunteer blues (that could be a song). Almost everyone started in the volunteer sector and many still are volunteers despite their paid job. That's not the point or the issue.

I've known you for a long time..so with that said...you know I'm open and honest with communication so here it goes.
Hate to tell you..but you're the one that is dead wrong. You just called someone out that you have no idea who they are..which I do...and you couldn't have missed the boat more on that one my friend. I have to wonder..I pretty much say the same thing he just did all the time...so why not call me out?
Now moving along...I always like when cute little quips come out. First...professional providers bust their rear just as hard...which by the way if I remember correctly you work as a professional in the field. Second...by raising awareness of issues that many other won't for the lack of a better term "man up" to, he is being part of the solution by using facts and caring about service. The public and those of us who are forced to wait for ambulances don't give a damn (sorry but that's the word I feel needs to be used) that you or anyone else feels they are busing their rear to do the best you can. This isn't making a delivery or service call to get cable installed or fixed...this is public safety which their are standards that should be adhered to. Most of us are understanding that mutual aid at times will take place...but to me this should be 1% or less of total call volume. So yes...I often do have a problem with substandard inconsistent service. So know what? Is it too bad for me? Or too bad for the public when there are agencies who can find money in budgets and have billing opportunities to have a more consistent service? But what do I know...I'm a professional who when I wake up tomorrow I will be focused on nothing more then my profession and as part of the solution raising awareness of coverage issues..will be labelled anti volunteer, and apparently now unknowing of the hardships of those volunteers trying to cover calls with limited manpower.... Oh wait..be part of the solution right? Here's a solution...stop worrying about control, pride or whatever else holds up progress and hire staffing.

You seem to be taking this a little too personal. Let me clarify by saying that no one said the Mofire390 didn't do his part, if thats the truth that you go above and beyond, I applaude your efforts. I also feel for you if you are one of the few in your agency that actually do. Was my statement bold, yes, irrational or inaccurate, I don't think so. For your info as well, just because my current affiliation says "Career" doesn't mean I haven't spent time in the volunteer ranks, I spent several years as a volunteer. My feeling has always been that if we didn't have sufficient manpower to carry out our tasks, hire people to do the job. Like I said, there has to be a point where we put public service before our pride and make something happen.

Ken, I think you're jumping the gun, the issue is not about your dedication or vollies in general not doing the best that they can.
You have to admit, and I 'm sure everyone who cares enough about what goes on knows there are many times when some calls don't get answered in a timely fashion, and it is THAT which is not acceptable.
A sprained wrist can wait, but a stroke patient cant. Or is it the 2:30am call with the elderly nursing home patient vomiting and diarrhea. And who knows which of these calls is going to get pushed back due to slow or no response? The outcomes for these patients will be very different.

Being retired and having nothing better to do (alright I just didn't want to rake the yard) I watched that video and have some thoughts.
The mayor made a very poor decision having that chief speak on his behalf. Instead of using negatives for everything he should have sold his plan with all of its positives (even if I don't believe half of his propaganda). I'm willing to bet that that chief's resume is on the top of the pile when the job is announced for chief of the new VFD. So painfully transparent.
Much of the presenters points were anecdotal, the presentation was too long and lacking in specificity that legislative bodies need and want and the constant attempts to smear the SFRD were as transparent as his claims about the proposed department seemingly false.
The mayor should have had an objective, neutral, professional staffer make the presentation highlighting the improvements and positive things that his plan would bring instead of the same old tired rhetoric.
All that said the Board of Representatives seems genuinely engaged and interested. They should work with the mayor and instead of this constant BS back and forth start with a clean slate.
The City limits are well established and they seek to provide comparable, consistent service to the entire City. They should take all that is currently available, personnel (paid and volunteer), apparatus, facilities, buildings, etc. and use NFPA 1710/1720 to set up the BEST system for the entire city. Having two or three different departments isn't going to be any better than the 5-6 they have now. They'll just have some fat-cat chief in a new paid position.
Map all the stations, position the apparatus, and start filling the busier stations with career personnel and backing them up with qualified volunteers. Roster all the FF the same way regardless of their pay status. If a company can be staffed entirely with properly trained volunteers, let it be. If it can't be, staff it with career guys. Make each rig roll with 3 FF and an officer. Building a system that will respond with 1-2 career guys is not the answer and since they're all willing to make some dramatic changes fix it right.
Develop a method for advancement within the volunteer ranks and a pathway into the career side for those who want a job.
Develop a single standard for FF training with two options for completing it - full-time fast track (career) and part-time for volunteers.
Stamford deserves a single, effective FD that covers the entire city instead of just shuffling the same problems around.
Start from the bottom and build yourselves a new system that as someone else here already said, will last the next 30+ years.
If people don't start letting go of the same old BS and complaints they're never going to get anywhere. But what do I know. I was just in combination department for my entire career.

Being retired and having nothing better to do (alright I just didn't want to rake the yard) I watched that video and have some thoughts.
The mayor made a very poor decision having that chief speak on his behalf. Instead of using negatives for everything he should have sold his plan with all of its positives (even if I don't believe half of his propaganda). I'm willing to bet that that chief's resume is on the top of the pile when the job is announced for chief of the new VFD. So painfully transparent.
Much of the presenters points were anecdotal, the presentation was too long and lacking in specificity that legislative bodies need and want and the constant attempts to smear the SFRD were as transparent as his claims about the proposed department seemingly false.
The mayor should have had an objective, neutral, professional staffer make the presentation highlighting the improvements and positive things that his plan would bring instead of the same old tired rhetoric.
All that said the Board of Representatives seems genuinely engaged and interested. They should work with the mayor and instead of this constant BS back and forth start with a clean slate.
The City limits are well established and they seek to provide comparable, consistent service to the entire City. They should take all that is currently available, personnel (paid and volunteer), apparatus, facilities, buildings, etc. and use NFPA 1710/1720 to set up the BEST system for the entire city. Having two or three different departments isn't going to be any better than the 5-6 they have now. They'll just have some fat-cat chief in a new paid position.
Map all the stations, position the apparatus, and start filling the busier stations with career personnel and backing them up with qualified volunteers. Roster all the FF the same way regardless of their pay status. If a company can be staffed entirely with properly trained volunteers, let it be. If it can't be, staff it with career guys. Make each rig roll with 3 FF and an officer. Building a system that will respond with 1-2 career guys is not the answer and since they're all willing to make some dramatic changes fix it right.
Develop a method for advancement within the volunteer ranks and a pathway into the career side for those who want a job.
Develop a single standard for FF training with two options for completing it - full-time fast track (career) and part-time for volunteers.
Stamford deserves a single, effective FD that covers the entire city instead of just shuffling the same problems around.
Start from the bottom and build yourselves a new system that as someone else here already said, will last the next 30+ years.
If people don't start letting go of the same old BS and complaints they're never going to get anywhere. But what do I know. I was just in combination department for my entire career.

I have worked as a career FF in a split house(E7/Springdale FC) and a career engine operating in a volunteer district (E9 in TORFD district) and have found, for the most part, operations run smoothly. Yes, sometimes egos (on both sides)get in the way, but oftentimes this is due to training/operational/communication differences. As I have stated several times before, I have worked at incidents with volunteers with nary a hitch. I also have worked at scenes with no volunteer presence. I see you just recently joined this forum. Go back through the over 1700 posts in this thread and you will find examples of departments working well together and the opposite. You will find lawsuits brought against the city and the union. You will see injunctions. You will see threats and police reports. It is a big mess. At the operational level, things (mostly) run smoothly. I, and many of my Union Brothers, do not want the Volunteers gone. Yes, some may. Some Volunteers want the Career guys gone. Some think that the Career guys are needed. No one ever said officially (or unofficially, for that matter) that they want the volunteers gone. I am going to show up for work every day and respond every time I am called. If volunteers respond to those same calls, great. More bodies means more work can get done faster and more efficiently.
As a firefighter at Engine 9, I realize that a volunteer will (hopefully) be driving T68 to give me water. I also realize that LDH1 is being driven by a Career Firefighter to attain that same goal. I do not care if the water coming out of the nozzle is provided by TORFD, LRFCo, SFRD, volunteer, paid, whoever. I just want water on that fire.

I must be missing something. What is the difference between a line of duty funeral and a funeral for another member? I've been to both and most often they try to make the non-LODD just like the LODD. Sorry, but I gotta agree that it is different and shouldn't be treated the same.
Sure show respect. Sure honor the member's memory. But don't tell me that you do it the same way as someone killed in the line of duty.
This guy's job was with the highway department, right? How come he wasn't carried on a DPW truck? I'm not trying to tarnish his memory or bash the FD but what makes this guy's hobby more important than his career?
Line of duty deaths warrant the full show of honors and tribute.

No cop's are not always on-duty, they have a duty to act, but that would be limited to what you 'see', and if you are an NYPD cop you are better off not seeing anything!
I am not here to question the character of the victim, but to bring it up would that mean if he was the guy who always broke stones and people didn't like he wouldn't get the same respect? How do you set up two trucks with a flag across the road and not compare it to a LODD funeral? I have been to over 100 funerals, I don't know many guys posting in this thread who can say the same. I am sure it meant the world to his family, and that is great, but when someone else dies at a job and they get the same response (people from other FD's) showing up in uniform what does that mean? That a man who was murdered is equal to a man who died trying to protect his neighbors or co-workers?
To think you know what the brotherhood is cause you went to a funeral is beyond me, how about you hop in the car with me Monday for Joey D's funeral, its 200 miles round trip from my house, but I will be there.

Good question. If we don't start dealing with our issues they're going to get dealt with for us, by the very same people who are closing ladder companies in New Rochelle and laying off firefighters all over the place.
Now is the right time to start improving things for the entire fire service in Westchester. 150 years of tradition, 1 step forward today, 1 step forward tomorrow.

Most of the experienced guys who've responded disagree with you. Westchester wouldn't have done fine, it would've been a mess and mutual aid isn't adequate for it. Some of the cops on this board are suprisingly well versed in our business and other things and I've never taken their input as uncourteous or disrespectful.
Are you talking about the ISO ratings regarding FF's? There is a difference between on duty and on call. The difference between most career and volunteer FF's is their training. Career guys get hundreds of hours before they hit the streets and there is no standard or requirement on the volunteer side. We can strive for the same thing but some are better prepared to acheive it then others.

Good question. If we don't start dealing with our issues they're going to get dealt with for us, by the very same people who are closing ladder companies in New Rochelle and laying off firefighters all over the place.
Now is the right time to start improving things for the entire fire service in Westchester. 150 years of tradition, 1 step forward today, 1 step forward tomorrow.

Good question. If we don't start dealing with our issues they're going to get dealt with for us, by the very same people who are closing ladder companies in New Rochelle and laying off firefighters all over the place.
Now is the right time to start improving things for the entire fire service in Westchester. 150 years of tradition, 1 step forward today, 1 step forward tomorrow.

Good question. If we don't start dealing with our issues they're going to get dealt with for us, by the very same people who are closing ladder companies in New Rochelle and laying off firefighters all over the place.
Now is the right time to start improving things for the entire fire service in Westchester. 150 years of tradition, 1 step forward today, 1 step forward tomorrow.

Probably not but a lot of other fireground activities can (should) be halted to effect the rescue so you can reassign resources to the rescue effort. It also speaks volumes about having resources staged and not simply operating. If you kept an engine and truck company staged and this happened you'd have at least six additional FF's to assist. But since most departments can't operate without mutual aid, they're reluctant to call extra for staging because they'll be viewed as having abused the mutual aid. That's BS
You don't need special funding to analyze and evaluate your operations. That's part of the job that is most often overlooked. How many chief's do after action analyses of their working jobs? Not too many sadly.
As good as most departments may be there's always room for improvement.

Probably not but a lot of other fireground activities can (should) be halted to effect the rescue so you can reassign resources to the rescue effort. It also speaks volumes about having resources staged and not simply operating. If you kept an engine and truck company staged and this happened you'd have at least six additional FF's to assist. But since most departments can't operate without mutual aid, they're reluctant to call extra for staging because they'll be viewed as having abused the mutual aid. That's BS
You don't need special funding to analyze and evaluate your operations. That's part of the job that is most often overlooked. How many chief's do after action analyses of their working jobs? Not too many sadly.
As good as most departments may be there's always room for improvement.

What cities "up your way" are similar in size and demographics to New Rochelle?
Are those cities adequately manned? If so, what are you basing your opinion on?
I would hope that as you offer your opinion on what constitutes proper manning for a profession you apparently know little about in a city you seem to know even less about that there are real Firefighters who are likely going to be losing their livelihood there and the rest will be left to pick up the slack.

If anyone hasn't read it, find the article that Phoenix published in I believe it was Fire Engineering when they took a good look at their operations after FF Brett Tarver died in a supermarket fire. They brought in and evaluated every RIT and time them and talked about their findings.
1. On average they found it takes 15 firefighters to rescue 1 down firefighter.
2. 1 out of 5 RIT members will end up having an issue themselves at some point in the operation.
A few more points as I've taught FAST for a few years and conduct drills and take part in them. If you're not training on the basics for your team and just out of control scenarios..you are doing your team a disservice. Review the SCBA, the maneuvers, operation both normal and emergency. Throwing ladders, ropes and knots and search. Back to the basics. It makes or breaks most teams. Also remember we work often in teams..if you constantly drill with 1 firefighter down your teams will not react well if you have 2 or more down. Also every once in a while..you have to pull teams during a rescue attempt or make it that they do not succeed. This builds in their brains that sometimes things may not work out and prepare them for the stress and understand that risk vs. benefit while stretched for one of our own...still applies and they may be pulled.

9 chiefs cars, 7 or 8 engines, tower ladder, bronto skylift, 3 rescues, brush truck, 3 boats, and god knows how many utilities...I think Seths right on this one...Time for Consolidation!
If they had a fire and each department rolled with their first due engine and a crew you'd probably get two or threee good crews as an attack engine, water supply engine, and a bunch of guys to do truck work
100 years of tradition unimpeded by progress!

Here's something I was pondering when I was reading something about a tri village response.
I know I remember this was essential when I worked at 60 Control years ago, and wondering if it still is an agreement for automatic aid?
With that said, and not picking on them just using them as a model, couldn't they benefit from some type of merger.
For instance, does every department need three Chiefs? Or could a Unified Incident Command system work for all three agencies. Could the departments respond as companies, instead of departments? (Example: a Chief is appointed to oversee all three districts, and each company could have one Deputy Chief).
Could resources be enhanced and streamlined through elimination of redundant equipment? Do the statistics justify that each department needs a Rescue, Ladder truck, etc, or could each "company" provide one well trained, well staffed unit? I don't know the stats on how often the apparatus functions are applied.
As far as EMS, couldn't Verplank better serve as a first response agency, with Cortlandt VAC covering the entire district for uniformity?
Could costs such as fuel, training, equipment maintainence, insurance, etc be lowered by reducing redudancies? Also, could firehouses be relocated to more central areas or condesnsed and put the properties back on the tax rolls?
And, this is my wackiest thought- could CCVAC benefit from a merger with Croton EMS? Could the FD's benefit with a merger with Croton to create a "Route 9A" corridor unity?
Again, I'm just using this situation as a model, and not attacking anyone or department just using this as a case study to discuss.

Its easy to get points, you just show up. A persons presence does not equal that they are contributing to the department. Members have posted before that many of the guys just looking for points are the ones who show up, check in then disapear.

I was a volunteer for 37 years in three different FD's and two different VAC's. Just before leaving the area my Dept. started one of those LOSAP programs. I didn't stay long enough to get vested. Wouldn't have mattered anyway. I did it for the job, the commaraderie,the good feeling you got when you intervened in someone's worst day to help them through it. If you need incentive beyond that to be 'retained' maybe you need to find something else to do.

About time.

About time.