Bottom of Da Hill

Funny how this article was released days before the vote on replacing the ladder. Seems like there is a supervisor stiring the pot again.

Lohud is trying to make everyone think their is a leak.
The rig is being replaced because its due to be replaced.
The accident is a separate unrelated issue.

I don't understand why there is opposition to responding in emergency mode to cover. Clearly you shouldn't respond as you would to a 10-75, but you need to get where you're going and quickly. When we relocate to another company to cover, we respond in emergency mode, slow and steady, but lights and siren non the less.
You're relocating to another area because at that moment there is inadequate fire protection there. What good am I to the people in, say Riverdale, if I'm 150 blocks away and a 1st due alarm comes in for fire, or anything else? When return, you drive with traffic.

Where is Harrison's tower ladder? Missing in action for 2 months.

There is not one civil service paid firefighter in Rockland county. So, the volunteer standard is all they have,
Fact is, you go to a majority of the other states in the union, and all volunteers must be trained to the same level as career firefighters before they are allowed to ride on calls. Why is this? Because it makes sense. How can anyone possibly agree and promote less training for anyone who is responsible for the lives of others? Why should volunteers be allowed to respond with this minimal amount of training, but career personnel have an exorbitant amount?
Simple example would be exploring a train accident on the MTA lines. How many volunteer departments who have MTA Lines run through them, require their firefighters to undergo MTA train safety if there is an accident on the tracks? How many departments require their firefighters to undergo mass casualty incident training, or mass hazmat decon training if another 9-11 happens and biochem or nuclear weapons are utilized and released into the general population in the city and commuters start to take the trains home prior to any transit ban placed into effect? Fact is, all career departments who sent their members to the academy, have received this training. I just found out the other day that FF1 no longer teaches how to operate a saw, or cut a roof. That's reserve for truck company class.
Forget about the population and what level of service they are receiving. The real questions are why, should you as a firefighter, choose to be unknowingly exposed to risks that you cannot even comprehend until you go through training? And paralleling that, as someone who is responding to those types of incidents, you should be demanding that you get trained in how to respond to those emergencies so you know and understand the risks and what to do CORRECTLY during those incidents. What kind of message does that send when we except apathy from our ranks in regards to training? People should be striving to learn all they can about the fire service, not actively attempting to hamper others safety.

how come in rockland county they dont have these problems ?bickering and resentment divisiveness? why only in westchester ?

Some of u guys have way to much time on your hands .

Why? Because there are many such as myself who for health reasons can not wear a mask but can perform most of the other duties that need to be done. I speak for myself when I say the pension program is not my motive for staying. You hands down win the training argument and bring up some very good points. It is what it is. There is clearly a different standard unlike other states but as far as fitness this is a problem both in career and volunteer departments more so in volunteer departments I taught at the training center for many years and have seen guys on both sides of the fence with weight issues. Lets work to fix that.

I stand corrected. Good catch, even if it took 7.5 months to catch

Agreed they should be and this has been the law in NYS for over 30 years, but very few departments simply believe its OFPC & the counties responsibly

Part of this is true, the candidate gets a second try a couple of weeks later. This new standard is for both career and volunteer ff's. What was explained to the chiefs was "this is not to get rid of potential firefighters, it is to have them in-house trained to expect this when they get to class. We (the fire service) do a disservice to volunteer recruits when we hand them all their gear and tell them to show at class night one, and they haven't even worn it yet. Several depts. in Westchester are way ahead of the curve by doing months of in-house training before sending anyone to class. AND IT SHOWS.
I read one comment that stated each dept should be responsible for their own training. I agree. Who gets to over see this? With this new OFPC standard the instructor who trained the recruits is not the same evaluator for final skills.

You wear the pack on your back but if you're on air for this again you're a yard breather and are less of a ff then the exterior driver who has got tools out ready and ladders thrown to windows. But I forget there's no such thing as a need for support personnel everyone should be able to go interior so when guys get injured or they can't go interior they should be thrown out with the rest of the rejected that cannot be interior. Even though when properly cleared many of these categories can play a vital role in the outcome of a fire. We don't need anyone who can't be interior so we'll also have to start limiting age due to the number of 40 plus year old interior guy's dying from heart attacks. So with the age cut off those guy's on the job well oh well you can't be a driver because you don't belong interior so thanks for being here 20yrs have a nice day don't have to go home but can't stay here.
Yes the requirements for some one becoming and staying interior needed updating. Just remember there are probably more exterior/support personnel are and were regular firefighters before they had to hang up there scba the way some make it sound they are not firefighters. It was added about hospitals you're right not everyone is called a Dr but they are all health care workers. Just like not everyone in the fire service is an interior or wildland or whatever but we are all firefighters! So get off you're high horse find real solutions for all of the fire service and the community's better requirements for every position in the fire service don't just write off the exterior like I said before a lot of them can't be interior anymore.

here is something to help you understand my point. The average citizen doesnt know or care who is called what as long as their local FD is doing their job. Departments should not be sending exterior guys to do an interior job. To me it should be less about what we call them and more about clearly defining what those classifications are.

It's more of an issue than you think. We have people who join the FD and never attend training except to be a driver and call themselves FF.
My point is that if you want to be a firefighter you shouldn't get to choose not to do the job of a firefighter by staying outside.
This isn't lunacy, this is the advocacy of FASNY and other groups that oppose vehemently any training standards or requirements to be called a FF.

Thst was my big issue from the get go. A 30 minute bottle which we all know doesnt mean 30 minutes is not fair for a guy to carry hose, drag a dummy, open a ceiling, force a door, set up a 2 section ladder, and carry a saw. Period.

So all this back and forth is about a title ? Really ? Come on guys is this what it has come to ? What should we call those who do not go interior so we can move on from this lunacy ?

Just saying

Only problem with replacing, or renovating their HQ is that it is actually owned by the Engine Company. While I have been inside, and realize how outdated and cramped it is, unless they can get financing, I feel that their only other option is to sell the building to the district,.which would be a poor decision, as the company would loose all sources of collateral, as well as a major piece of income.
Will be interesting to see how this turns out. Anyone know if they will be able to keep all the apparatus inside and in service during construction? Seems like if they can't, they would need to setup some sort of temporary or rental structure to house them, whether it's behind their HQ, or at the controversial site of their proposed substation.

its called TOAC--task-orientated-air-consumption. it is given in the third session of FF1 a student will be given two chances to pass the TOAC. the second chance will be given later in the course. The TOAC students will have a set of vitals taken before and after the test. medical staffing must be present during the testing.
There is a lot more then just this--there are 16 skills that have to be done and signed off by the home department. New Books-- its the start of a new look for OFPC. this new FF1 class will allow students to take National Certification upon completion. and by the way signing a false skill sheet is considered a misdemeanor and may be punishable.
FYI-- CPAT is considered a entry level test..TOAC is considered skills oriented.

This is probably in the long run a good thing.
I agree that doing a series of tasks in short order on a single bottle of air is unrealistic, unless we are going to drop that pesky rehab standard that was implemented a few years ago. You know the one that limits the time you can work without a rest period. Which probably would prevent you from doing a rapid series of tasks on a single bottle on a fire ground.
As for the ability of the instructors to do this, I would be willing to bet that most can, however we all know guys who while mostly good at what they do have made teaching their main career and have not been in a fire in years. I have a feeling that this is who will be questioned, not the younger gung ho guys who nobody doubts can do the job.
As for a single standard, that is good in theory but has some problems in practice. The ability of someone in a career department to spend more time training is a reality that we have to face. The ability of a department to order someone to attend an academy on a full time basis is simply not there in a volunteer department or even some smaller career departments. a 14 week academy is over 500 hours, when I took FF1 is was about 120, the same for FF2 which together equal about half of that time. So how long would it take to run that full time standard on a part time basis?
I doubt that this standard will be applied to existing personnel, much in the same way that the CPAT was not. The concept of grandfathering is alive and well and in most cases reasonably applied in the fire service. So a single standard if possible will take years to implement, possibly 20 or more.
I don't think we need to get rid of support positions or exterior positions, although they probably need to be standardized as everyone seems to define them slightly differently. No matter the kind of department the guy who only files paperwork does not need to pass an interior standard any more than a paramedic does, as neither one is going into a burning building any time soon.

.it is an addition if it was not required and now is. AAgain not fighting the need I am simply saying that 1 cylindar to do all that in succession itome seems a bit much. And to the memberwho said we need 1 standard for all firefighters in lieu of interior and exterior thats nuts. Every FD and PD has people on full time desk duty. There is a job for everyone in this service.

It is time we stop the nonsense and make one standard for firefighter. Enough of this "interior", "exterior", "support" nonsense.
There should definitely be standards and the idea of testing candidates on air is a realistic and appropriate screening method. If you can't perform the skills while on air, why bother going through all the training?

I may regret ever bringing this up. And before I do let me start by saying I believe we need to stress conditioning and prepare our members for the worst and hopefor the best. That said this station test seems a bit over the top. I mean what firefighter has ever gotten off a rig then dragged hose, carried hose, forced a door, pulled a ceiling, carried and set up a ground ladder then saved someone all on 1 bottle ? I get we need to stress fitness but department medicals should weed out those who should not be going interior. This is just my opinion. I yhink this agility is a bit over the top.

Somers FD has indeed disbanded its dive team. We have two excellent dive teams bordering us in Yorktown and Mahopac Falls. Currently all of our dive equipment is for sale including the vehicle Rescue 38. We are looking in the future to replace our marine 22 which is a zodiac with something new to fit our needs since we do have a lot of water. We will be maintaining our ice rescue equipment and concentrate on surface rescue. If any departments are interested in equipment we have a lot for sale.