firemoose827

Food for thought:
Someplace in this thread, it was mentioned that people were on-scene but not interior qualified. The brand new FF 1's are not yet qualified to go inside but should be watching the operation because they have a lot to learn.
However, the older guys, or the "no longer able" guys who are on scene are a gold mine.
Why not teach them ICS and assign them to things like accountability, resource unit leader, rehab unit leader, logistics, staging, or mentor for the new FF1's that I mentioned above? These guys could also be assigned to insure that your required FAST is assembled and in position throughout the incident.
Use what you have to your advantage. It's a lot better than explaining over and over again why "you can't do it."

I like the discussion here. But I have yet to really hear from any department (other than one) that is really interested in putting all of our heads together to work towards the same thing.
Firefighter safety, survival and rescue training is near and dear to me. I firmly believe the additional 24 hours of FAST training should be tacked on to the Firefighter I & Survival classes the WCFTC puts out. I also can't comprehend why survival training and rescue of our own is not minimum training for all of us. To make it a separate program and not make it required training STATEWIDE irritates the living hell out of me.
What further irks me is that guys walk out of the training center, carrying their Firefighter I certificates (most not take Survival, thanks WCDES) and never again take a course to better themselves in the interest of all those that they will be working with.
Survival and Firefighter Rescue Training needs to be a requirement - period, end of story.
/rant

Yes. As an assistant chief, if I call for mutual aid for tankers and manpower...I want that manpower to be ready, able and trained to fight fires. Usually you will get a mix of members; some interior, some exterior, even some who are brand new members that have new turnouts on (but cant use them) and are basically good for "gopher" duties only. And in some cases you get more explorers riding the rig then firefighters.
Same for accident scenes; I shouldnt have to ask if you are trained to extricate someone from a vehicle, if you dont have AVET then you shouldnt be on the rescue truck when it rolls to an MVA.
My bitch for years has been to adopt the same standards as EMT's in our state. They have to go through a certification process involving training (classroom and hands on), and two tests in order to receive your license. Then you have to re-cert every three years. THATS the way it should be for firefighters, but I feel a good re-cert term for us would be five years. Show up, demonstrate you still know the basic skills in the training facility, take a test and your re-certified. Fail...and you have to re-take the training. Lots of people hate the idea, yet they still bitch on these forums that training standards should be taken more seriously state wide for firefighters....I feel this idea is a good option; is it the ultimate cure for the problem? Never. But its a good option that should be considered and revised to suit our needs.
But I agree; same training for every firefighter, paid or volunteer, big city or small rural farm community with one engine and 6 members. Same across the board so every "firefighter" on scene can do every task required of them.

Absolutely! As I have said in the past the fire does not care if you are receiving a pay check or volunteering your time, it will kill you just the same. The standards and training should be unilateral across the board for every firefighter and officer. You don’t see any difference in the training requirements for career vs. volunteer paramedics and EMT’s!

Its honestly pathetic. There's a national standard that already exists, but some places still want to live in the stone age and pretend its not necessary for them. If you don't want to EARN the title of Firefighter then I don't want you on my rig.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU. It's about the community you're supposed to be serving and the level of service (and competency) they expect. The fact that they don't know the details is no excuse. They deserve it.

Yes. As an assistant chief, if I call for mutual aid for tankers and manpower...I want that manpower to be ready, able and trained to fight fires. Usually you will get a mix of members; some interior, some exterior, even some who are brand new members that have new turnouts on (but cant use them) and are basically good for "gopher" duties only. And in some cases you get more explorers riding the rig then firefighters.
Same for accident scenes; I shouldnt have to ask if you are trained to extricate someone from a vehicle, if you dont have AVET then you shouldnt be on the rescue truck when it rolls to an MVA.
My bitch for years has been to adopt the same standards as EMT's in our state. They have to go through a certification process involving training (classroom and hands on), and two tests in order to receive your license. Then you have to re-cert every three years. THATS the way it should be for firefighters, but I feel a good re-cert term for us would be five years. Show up, demonstrate you still know the basic skills in the training facility, take a test and your re-certified. Fail...and you have to re-take the training. Lots of people hate the idea, yet they still bitch on these forums that training standards should be taken more seriously state wide for firefighters....I feel this idea is a good option; is it the ultimate cure for the problem? Never. But its a good option that should be considered and revised to suit our needs.
But I agree; same training for every firefighter, paid or volunteer, big city or small rural farm community with one engine and 6 members. Same across the board so every "firefighter" on scene can do every task required of them.

Yes
Anyone with the title of firefighter should have like training.
I am fire police with my department and I will not identify myself as a firefighter because I have no training as such. I think the same should go for others who don't engage in firefighting activities.

FAST or RIT is not designed to be a function handled by a specialized unit or group. It is essential that every firefighter be trained in all facets of firefighter rescue. Often incidents that cause firefighters to require emergency rescue, occur early in the incident (well before a county team or specialized team from a mutual aid department can gather a crew and respond). This means that the rescue of the downed or trapped firefighter(s) will have to be initiated by the firefighters who are already on the scene if they are to have a chance at a good outcome.

Every Interior Firefighter should complete FAST training. Even if you are not on the team at least
learn and practice the skills.
When you go to the FTC for a burn how many departments practice the rescue of a Firefighter down?
As mentioned what happens when you hear that MAY-DAY! and the FAST from the other town is
not even out the door yet?
All departments should cross train. It can only make our skills better and give us a chance to work together.
GREAT TOPIC REMEMBER 585!

Barry, I do respect you opinion and yes these can be argued in several different ways. Obviously your points and questiosn are correct from a different view point. My point is this with my suggestions as you pointed out are options. Its another oprion in the "tool bag of tricks". As you well know, you have to decide what is best for the situation. It seems the way I worded somethings are not clear with my intentions.
Would I use a booster for mass decon during a HazMat situation? Probably not, however depening on the situation where you may need to deploy a quick line to get into place for rinse down purposes if there are no proper decon "garden hoses" are in place, then I would pull the booster to fill the void until you can get the proper equipment in place. On a fireground, I would most definately utilize the line to rinse down and clean up. (Any yes, I have seen a pumper run out of usuable discharges a few times - again depends on the year, make, model and how the truck is set up.)
My car fire scenerio, again another option with using an attachment to a SG-60 or CG-15 to aid in getting into those "hard to reach" areas. If you have a 1 3/4" with the same attachments set up on that line, well then its a no brainer, you go with the bigger line for a secondary. Again depends on the scenerio when you do your size up, pulling a booster with attachment may not be the best scenerio for a secondary line.
The small propane tank, I should have been more clear. Granted you should not use it on a continue operation, a larger line should be put into place for continual operations like you described. For an intial attack to get some sort of dispiation going, it can be done but a larger line should be set in place definately. Its a stop gap measure for a short time.
And for the investigation line, we have done it for years where I originally came from, the pumpers at work do not have booster lines on them. We still would have a 1 3/4" attack line (or two depending on the extent) in place but at the same time. You can back down any line all you want but with the smaller line you do have a lot more control and manuverablity to rinse down items in the area without fighting a larger line.
As for cleaning the booster line, well its not that hard doing it. The easiest way is to wrap a wet towel loosely around the hose and let it slide through your hand as its being rolled up on the reel getting the heavier dirt off. Obviously you will have to spend more time like any other hose cleaning operations to get all of it off.
And if anyone is complaining about cleaning and packing hose regardles show many lines are out, well you shouldn't be a firefighter, its your job. The booster line or any reel line is the quickest one to put away.
But also think of this about a booster line compared to the old PW can. 2 1/2" gallons of water from a PW can help keep a room and content fire in check when properly utilized, can't the same be applied in certain situations for a booster line? Think about it.

Thank you!
My goal is simple. Make EMTBravo better and a place where all of us involved in Emergency Services enjoy visiting.
EMTBravo has some very loyal members and it's time to tap into that for some suggestions in making improvements.
We are nothing without YOU the members.
All I ask for is support.
Feel free to e-mail me with any suggestions for improvements, compliments or complaints. I will try to address each and every one.
Rob

Members,
I know I've changed titles around a lot in the past, but we are going forward in a new direction with this forum.
I've changed the "Director Of Operations" to the "Chief Of Operations" because that title is much more understandable to emergency services personnel.
With that said, Rob Casasanta (RWC130) has been appointed as EMTBravo's Chief Of Operations. Rob has been a member of this forum since it's inception (10 years), and is the second person registered after me. He is proud to be a member, has helped to get this site to where it is today, and has always given me sound advice and guidance. He is very diplomatic, which is something we need. He has some great ideas to expand the site, like heading up the EMTBravo Muster, and has continued to show great initiative and planning for a successful future. He wants the best for this site and it's members.
Rob has always been someone I trusted greatly, and is a true friend and has no "agenda". He is tolerant, understanding, caring, and honest. It has come time to appoint someone to be my equal should something happen to me health wise and to assure the future of the site. In the next few weeks, we will be forming a written partnership agreement regarding this. I will also be training him and providing him with what he needs to run the site (so, for example, we don't have downtime like we had in March).
I'd like to say thank you to Rob for always being there, through thick and thin. You're a great friend, and will make a great Chief Of Operations. Thank you for taking the load off my shoulders when I need you.
Now, to me. I will stay involved with the technical, financial, and development ends of the websites, so I will still be around as Deputy Chief Of Operations.
Congrats!
Seth Granville
Founder & Deputy Chief Of Operations

That makes me sick too...I have heard hundreds (no exageration) of young firefighters argue that with todays training it makes them equipped to be officer at an early stage...I still say BULL &^*%!!! This just proves my point; they lack the maturity and real life experience to properly lead a fire department or even a company. They may be well trained, yes, granted...BUT...You still need to take that training and apply it in the field to get real life experience, and you MATURE as a result of that experience. To read this article and see that his excuse was "Well company officers and members have been drinking at parades for a long time now and no officer or official have done anything about it..." makes me sick.
He KNEW about the problem and did nothing about it as one of the chiefs. He participated in the infraction himself being drunk behind the wheel, putting him, his FF's, and if his family or someone elses family was with them as well all in jeopardy. You need mature people with experience in the field and lots of training to properly lead a department as chief. Lieutenant...Maybe a younger person (21-25) can take that spot and learn from his/her captains and chiefs and gain some insight to properly run a dept, but any chief spot? That should be someone in the dept for over 20 years, knows the equipment, knows the district blind folded, knows the people, has tons of training and field tested experience on the nozzle or on the roof or crawling down that hallway with a high level of MATURITY to lead.
Luckily, no one was seriously injured or killed...this time. He injured one of his men (hopefully not out of work on disability or anything), and probably destroyed the truck wasting tons of taxpayers money to either repair or replace it. He put his district in danger because now they are down by one truck that they would normally depend on and have to rely on mutual aid. He should have the white hat taken away, and given a hot pink helmet with a bunch of AA stickers and 12-step program stickers on it for a year and have his driving priveledges permenantly taken away. Maybe that will give him the maturity he NEEDED when he took the office.
Sorry...im done now...and I respectfully dont want to hear any younger member say anything to me like "But there are some of us that are mature..." please...just respect my opinion because you will not change it until I see a young chief work miracles...then maybe we can talk...

That makes me sick too...I have heard hundreds (no exageration) of young firefighters argue that with todays training it makes them equipped to be officer at an early stage...I still say BULL &^*%!!! This just proves my point; they lack the maturity and real life experience to properly lead a fire department or even a company. They may be well trained, yes, granted...BUT...You still need to take that training and apply it in the field to get real life experience, and you MATURE as a result of that experience. To read this article and see that his excuse was "Well company officers and members have been drinking at parades for a long time now and no officer or official have done anything about it..." makes me sick.
He KNEW about the problem and did nothing about it as one of the chiefs. He participated in the infraction himself being drunk behind the wheel, putting him, his FF's, and if his family or someone elses family was with them as well all in jeopardy. You need mature people with experience in the field and lots of training to properly lead a department as chief. Lieutenant...Maybe a younger person (21-25) can take that spot and learn from his/her captains and chiefs and gain some insight to properly run a dept, but any chief spot? That should be someone in the dept for over 20 years, knows the equipment, knows the district blind folded, knows the people, has tons of training and field tested experience on the nozzle or on the roof or crawling down that hallway with a high level of MATURITY to lead.
Luckily, no one was seriously injured or killed...this time. He injured one of his men (hopefully not out of work on disability or anything), and probably destroyed the truck wasting tons of taxpayers money to either repair or replace it. He put his district in danger because now they are down by one truck that they would normally depend on and have to rely on mutual aid. He should have the white hat taken away, and given a hot pink helmet with a bunch of AA stickers and 12-step program stickers on it for a year and have his driving priveledges permenantly taken away. Maybe that will give him the maturity he NEEDED when he took the office.
Sorry...im done now...and I respectfully dont want to hear any younger member say anything to me like "But there are some of us that are mature..." please...just respect my opinion because you will not change it until I see a young chief work miracles...then maybe we can talk...

Been my argument for years, As Chief the good old beer machine went for a ride, yet after I got out from office it returned, I am with you 100% there is no need for it to be there and it's one of the reason why I stopped going to parades, it sad to see a bunch of drunk firefighters making a spectacle of themselves and the departments they serve.

That makes me sick too...I have heard hundreds (no exageration) of young firefighters argue that with todays training it makes them equipped to be officer at an early stage...I still say BULL &^*%!!! This just proves my point; they lack the maturity and real life experience to properly lead a fire department or even a company. They may be well trained, yes, granted...BUT...You still need to take that training and apply it in the field to get real life experience, and you MATURE as a result of that experience. To read this article and see that his excuse was "Well company officers and members have been drinking at parades for a long time now and no officer or official have done anything about it..." makes me sick.
He KNEW about the problem and did nothing about it as one of the chiefs. He participated in the infraction himself being drunk behind the wheel, putting him, his FF's, and if his family or someone elses family was with them as well all in jeopardy. You need mature people with experience in the field and lots of training to properly lead a department as chief. Lieutenant...Maybe a younger person (21-25) can take that spot and learn from his/her captains and chiefs and gain some insight to properly run a dept, but any chief spot? That should be someone in the dept for over 20 years, knows the equipment, knows the district blind folded, knows the people, has tons of training and field tested experience on the nozzle or on the roof or crawling down that hallway with a high level of MATURITY to lead.
Luckily, no one was seriously injured or killed...this time. He injured one of his men (hopefully not out of work on disability or anything), and probably destroyed the truck wasting tons of taxpayers money to either repair or replace it. He put his district in danger because now they are down by one truck that they would normally depend on and have to rely on mutual aid. He should have the white hat taken away, and given a hot pink helmet with a bunch of AA stickers and 12-step program stickers on it for a year and have his driving priveledges permenantly taken away. Maybe that will give him the maturity he NEEDED when he took the office.
Sorry...im done now...and I respectfully dont want to hear any younger member say anything to me like "But there are some of us that are mature..." please...just respect my opinion because you will not change it until I see a young chief work miracles...then maybe we can talk...

I see the booster reel as a convenience line, and as such the costs outweigh the benefits. Washdowns, trash cans, grass fires and like like can easily be handled with 1" single jacket hose that stores in a fraction the space and can be fitted nearly anywhere on a new truck, often in the bumper. A booster line requires space (some of the US's the most expensive real estate per square foot), piping and of course money. For what? Convenience? Not in this day, at least not here.
Now, banning their use? Silliness from those who refuse to maintain any kind of tactical discipline. If your guys are pulling a red-line into a commercial structure or any for that matter, it's not the equipment's fault, just like guns, they're inanimate and merely waiting for a human to misuse them.

For all the reasons IzzyEng4 mentions and more, I always found a hard booster line a convenience as much as an asset. Then I left for a few years and when I came back the new engine no longer had a hard booster reel, it had a reel with 600 feet of forestry hose that snags on every twig it meets. I miss the hard booster reel.

There are absolutely things for each service to do at many scenes. I think it is not just adreneline that causes the potential to become victims but the genuine desire to do something helpful. This is exactly why most of us went into these fields. nobody wants to feel useless or for that matter to appear useless. This is by no means a bad thing, but it works against us. I am not saying never to send the police to a fire call, but I am not sure why it seems like a raceto see who can dispatch their units first, when the clear priority is getting the fire department going and in place quickly and efficiently.
This works for other services also. I once dispatched an EDP call in a district that the FD goes on all medicals. So this call got PD, FD & EMS. I told FD & EMS to stage a block away and wait until the police cleared the scene. After a while the Captain on the engine gets on the air and asks if he can clear up, when I told him I would see if PD needed them, he said he could see them loading the EDP into the ambulance from his staging point. EMS didn't feel the need to stage. I notified the EMS supervisor about this and was told it was not my job to tell them to stage, his guys knew how to watch out for their own safety. Funny how things change, now if I don't tell them to stage they ask for a staging location on the air.
The goal always has been and always will be that everyone goes home in one piece.

You are correct, We occasionally get from them "its a big fire" (nice if we originally only had it as an alarm), But most of the time all I have ever heard is tell them to "expidite".....
In the past the only cars we ever found that were blocking FD access were PD. In recent years with better supervision (sgt shows up with the sector cars) its less of a problem.

AFS. How about you have a fire and now a large crowd of people or even a small crowd. Plenty of people always want to get up close and see. Especially in today's world of cell phone cameras. Even if there is not a fire you just never know what can happen or pop up. It doesn't hurt to send both. I am a little offended by your statement and if you are a dispatcher I would think you would have some common sense of why PD should go. I have stated clearly my stance on this topic that its an FD job and they go in but I still feel I am needed and have been several cases at a fire scene I was. Like I said that one dingbat with a camera standing right next to the engine as FD is trying to grab a line or the tool and is in the way. Let me take care of that that's why I am there.

I think sending the PD is great, it's what some do when they arrive we need to work on (the reverse is likely true for FD/EMS units reporting crimes in progress). Upon arrival a person with a direct link to dispatch and no emotional attachment can assess the situation, suddenly "fully involved" becomes light smoke from 1 or 2 windows or "reported fire" becomes fire from the top floor of a 3 story apartment building." Anytime we get more accurate information before we arrive, we are better off.The PD certainly can clear the block of cars stopping to see what's going on, hep evacuate persons from threatened structures and yes, in many cases the fire building. Of course the larger your PD, the less chance you can have a positive effect on their fireground senses and what helps/hurts, unless you can get an hour of their academy time (good luck). I would anticipate the common taxpayer would like to see a city employee arrive and at least appear to be taking action as early as possible, rather than sitting a few blocks away oblivious to it all?
Similarly, while fire and EMS is not usually sent ahead of the PD to crimes, when we're at a scene for some reason we can be looking for and noting things, radioing in pertinent developments and generally being better witnesses than the average citizen. Jumping in is obviously not smart unless no other choice exists and someone's life is in danger without immediate intervention.

That makes me sick too...I have heard hundreds (no exageration) of young firefighters argue that with todays training it makes them equipped to be officer at an early stage...I still say BULL &^*%!!! This just proves my point; they lack the maturity and real life experience to properly lead a fire department or even a company. They may be well trained, yes, granted...BUT...You still need to take that training and apply it in the field to get real life experience, and you MATURE as a result of that experience. To read this article and see that his excuse was "Well company officers and members have been drinking at parades for a long time now and no officer or official have done anything about it..." makes me sick.
He KNEW about the problem and did nothing about it as one of the chiefs. He participated in the infraction himself being drunk behind the wheel, putting him, his FF's, and if his family or someone elses family was with them as well all in jeopardy. You need mature people with experience in the field and lots of training to properly lead a department as chief. Lieutenant...Maybe a younger person (21-25) can take that spot and learn from his/her captains and chiefs and gain some insight to properly run a dept, but any chief spot? That should be someone in the dept for over 20 years, knows the equipment, knows the district blind folded, knows the people, has tons of training and field tested experience on the nozzle or on the roof or crawling down that hallway with a high level of MATURITY to lead.
Luckily, no one was seriously injured or killed...this time. He injured one of his men (hopefully not out of work on disability or anything), and probably destroyed the truck wasting tons of taxpayers money to either repair or replace it. He put his district in danger because now they are down by one truck that they would normally depend on and have to rely on mutual aid. He should have the white hat taken away, and given a hot pink helmet with a bunch of AA stickers and 12-step program stickers on it for a year and have his driving priveledges permenantly taken away. Maybe that will give him the maturity he NEEDED when he took the office.
Sorry...im done now...and I respectfully dont want to hear any younger member say anything to me like "But there are some of us that are mature..." please...just respect my opinion because you will not change it until I see a young chief work miracles...then maybe we can talk...

Truckies VS. Engine....
I can beat you all on this one, I happen to go both ways...
Your not a fireman until you are an "Iron Man Firefighter" and have to do both jobs at a moments notice.
Stay Safe out there...(truckies)...

Truckies VS. Engine....
I can beat you all on this one, I happen to go both ways...
Your not a fireman until you are an "Iron Man Firefighter" and have to do both jobs at a moments notice.
Stay Safe out there...(truckies)...