FirNaTine

So, it begs the question, depending on the situation at hand, is it better to initiate an interior fire attack (potentially halting the fire growth) with just your 2 in / 2 out or waiting until you have sufficient personnel to staff that plus an IC, a pump operator, etc., but allowing the fire to grow and potentially be "more dangerous" when the fire attack is initiated?

And as a result increasing everyones chances of getting injured or killed, and having to deploy your FAST/RIT Team instead of nipping it in the Butt! I believe they're some credibility to this point of view. JMO

Id love to see a Stat on what caused a FAST/RIT Team to be deployed and could it have been prevented by FFs just learning and doing their Job to the best of their ability and using good common sense. Yes there will always be the unpredictable/unforeseen events that unfold at an Incident causing both death and serious injuries to members but how many times are these unfortunate outcomes caused by our own members, both directly and indirectly, thru poor Strategy/Tactics and piss poor decision making on ones part, no matter what their Rank is. As Ive said numerous times, we are our own worst enemy more so then often and are to quick to point fingers and blame to cover up our mistakes. JMO.

Many Fireground fatalities, both civilian and FF also occur due to complacency, lack of interest, lowering the standards, etc.etc.etc.. Not just a lack of working smoke detectors. Again many times we are our own worst enemy!!!! Unfortunately the Fire Service has lost "Tradition"!

It's these kind of remarks that make me realize some people don't care how our system of government is suppose to work... Thank you for showing your intelligent side

Your quite welcome! Anytime!

This probably looks great on paper to bean counters and politicians.

But what will they say when something "bad" happens at the wrong time and half your FD is tied up on ambulance calls?

What will they say when reality happens.

They will say fires are down and to keep your Job we needed productivity out of you guys! So be an ambulance chaser now!

How about put your f****** phone away and go to work if you even have a Job. Most of these people are skells and usually have a criminal record themselves. They just be after the Po Po!

Probably better off leaving there anyway. Im sure he's making a lot more with less bullshit!

Eastchester Fire District is not a municipality but the taxpayers can not on a per capita basis cover a dept that meets the standards.

On top of that the states tax cap is forcing communities to make cuts. these cuts will continue every year. This was also predicted and everyone said, oh no it will never happen or never effect my dept.

It all depends on the Municipality or whatever you want to call it. There's definitely some out there can meet the needs but choose not to. Many times it comes down to personalities and grudges. It's no different then one Business that thrives and another one that fails. Each Town/Village/City finances are different. Many Mayors and Town Officials get pretty pissed off when they find out a FF or Police Officer is making more then them and have a better Retirement Package and Health Care Benefit for only working a few days a week and then B-Jobbing the rest of the week. Especially when the Municipality has to pay into the Retirement System for each Civil Servant and then has to cover our illustrious 207a members retirement benefits in addition to having to hire new personnel to replace them and provide them with the same benefits. You can't expect a Community to keep raising taxes either to do this, putting the burden on many who have lost their own Jobs, House, Health Insurance etc.etc. Many of Joe Public out there don't give a rats ass about our Contracts or Union in general. Especially when they see a Civil Servant out on Disability living the Life of Reilly and may even be banging nails on a house next door to them or Volunteering in their home Town. That's if they even decide to stay around and don't pick up and move South or West where they will get more bang for their buck till age 70 tax free. We are our own worst enemy!

Many Municipalities can, but refuse to comply. All you ever hear is" fires are down" from local Officials. Taxpayers want their garbage picked up and to feel safe so the DPW and PD don't take the hits as much when it comes crunch time.

you need 75 FF.s to cover eastchester FD? seems like alot just saying.

Maybe the Municipalities with the phony LODs(s*** load of!) should star putting the axe to the grind and punishing the MOTHRER FUCKERS! A lot of so called Professional FFs out there scamming the System! Big Reason why Management hates us and they don't want to hire more! Get some Balls Guys! Call the Scam Artists out for once!!!!!!

This is right out of the Westchester County Fire Mutual AId Plan, Section 1 Purpose

"It is expected that Plan participants shall first expend and exhaust all of their own resources prior to placing a Mutual Aid request. Mutual Aid is intended to be reserved for extreme circumstances. It is not intended to be routine, nor should it become abusive or an unreasonable burden to the Fire Agencies providing assistance."

WOW! Seems to me many Depts across Westchester County then are abusing the s*** out of it both Career and Volunteer! If this is the case which Im sure it is many Unions should stop advocating their so called loyal Union members to stop coming back on OT to backfill for those Depts that are making cuts to manpower and putting Apps oos! Just a thought!

But I thought M/A was the answer? Especially when guys come back on OT of an undermanned and ill equipped Dept. to help their neighboring struggling "Brothers" out next door who have been fighting the same issue for yrs. That's all Ive ever heard from my fellow Union Brothers, "Hey we're there for you guys just give us a call." LMAO! The chickens are coming home to roost!!! Gotta love the "Union Solidarity!" It's all bullshit fellows!

No the outcomes were very different. We were very upset that we had on averaged missed 1/2 the victims. But learned so much from it that we would not make those mistakes again.

Understood, but my experiences were the opposite though I did pick up a few pointers. However like you said most so called upstate Depts. don't have the reinforcements coming in like FDNY which is very true.

When I was there we had 2 sections that forced the comparison:

1) Extrication. FDNY was just adding tools to ladder companies so they wanted to review procedures that some of the FDNY LT's had not practiced since probie school 10-15 years prior. So we di side by side cars. They worked on basic door pops, while the instructors told us to do what ever we wanted as they new we all did more extrication than any of the instructors. So we flipped one car on its roof & another on its side and had fun.

2) Floor above victim search in a tenement. This was EXCELLENT. 3 member teams sent to search for up to 6 members of a family missing on the floor above. 20 teams (15 FDNY teams, 5 "upstate teams), I was teamed with 2 members from Illion, NY. The apt. we searched was fully furnished, including bedding and clothing and empty bottles on the table. The walls were only 1/2 height and the instructors had platforms above so they could see & film our searches. at about the 10 minute mark the radio would advise that the engine on the fire floor lost water and we needed to get out. As we were evacuating we heard a pass alarm from the back of the apt. (we were previously advised that the OV from another truck was back there). We had another 3 minutes to find him and get out before the apt. "flashed".

What was most interesting as we watched the 20 teams on video we found the "Upstate" teams averaged finding 3 of the victims and the OV, plus the team got out before the apt. flashed. The FDNY teams found all 6 victims and the OV, but all 15 search teams and all victims were killed when the apt flashed.

Very similar experiences and outcomes between both Groups! Makes you wonder!

Never mind the Gym how many FFs smoke? Take some personal responsibility for your health and don't wait for your Dept. to purchase equipment and implement a fitness program. Besides the Fire Service has enough "Paper Tigers" anyway!

Career versus Volunteer staffing is determined by the number and frequency of calls, obviously YHFD is doing fine with staffing as is.

By whose account? What's their average response time especially at 3am? On average how many times do they have to re- tone for manpower,chauffers etc.etc.. Those are the questions that need to be answered, not build a new Station that won't be manned or purchase new apparatus that will barely move anyway.

If YFD had paid members to roll out immediately this station would work. Without that it is a hidden away party palace.

Exactly!!!

Is it really necessary to build a new Station that won't be manned 24/7/365? Maybe it's time for Yorktown to consider incorporating themselves into the Towns/Villages FD tests and take some of that $$$ to hire a handful of Career Guys if they're so worried about adequate Fire Protection and shorter response times. After all it is 2014, nothing wrong with having a Comb Dept.. Ive always wondered where much of the property tax revenue for some of these smaller Communities who have Volunteer FDs, VACs. Private Refuse Collecting Cos, etc. etc. goes? I believe Yorktown has a very small PD and was once told by a resident there, they only have 4-5 POs a shift, covering roughly 40 sq miles which is incomprehensible so I can't even imagine how a Volunteer FD can handle providing F/P for an area that large with adequate response times. JMO.

Do any Career Depts participate in that anymore? I know they use to and have just as good time in the "Bullpen" as the Volunteer members! Wooohoo!

Maybe, but at least you know that they will respond

And sometimes everyone is better off if they don't even show up for some of them don't contribute to the Incident and may even make matters worse.

. There are also plenty of career chiefs that litter suburbia with the minimum certifications required to attain the position, who have been placed there through political influence and have no business commanding a girl scout troop selling cookies let alone let alone a fire-rescue response.

Got that right Brother! Too many of them are Political Puppets and got their position because of nepotism, writing a nice big campaign donation or just plain kissing ass their whole career!

God bless the GOP.

Liberal Dems are no better! Look at our illustrious Governor's actions he's taking against Civil Service! He and his Father for that matter!

Or maybe they can't trust the Volunteer Depts. to show up with a fully staffed crew because most of them are working that Day for their Career Dept. or "B" jobbing? That's if they decide to even go in and work their tour or answer their phone for OT, if an impending storm is coming. Wouldn't want to go in and bust your ass now would we for our fellow Brother FFs. It's nothing but "Blood Money!" "F" that!

Hey I know Career Chiefs that have credentials from all over the Country and are still incompetent, They're lucky they can handle a mattress job!