16fire5

In Orange County that is partially because there is a policy that neighboring departments with FAST teams will not be called because they feel the FAST team firefighters might be too emotionally attached to firefighters in trouble, and may make rash decisions.

There is no such policy. An individual department may have that as their policy but there is no such policy county wide.

It seems like most IA's you read for structure fires show the FAST being put to work. Now I don't have enough specifics but it seems more times than not they are being put to work for normal firefighting duties instead of firefighters in distress. This stems from the fact that they are not sending enough firefighters on the initial assignment to do the standard attack. It seems these fire departments still like to play catch up. If you have a working incident and have no one in reserve to stretch a line for extension or do the next task that comes up you are behind the 8 ball. It is easy to see that at many of these fires the IC is not proactive enough in transmitting additional alarms. If you are the IC you should be less concerned about a 3 year wonder asking why you called so much help or the thread on EMT Bravo about how much mutual aid was called and more concerned with having enough people on scene to operate safely.

Digital Trunked systems are pushed very heavily by vendors. They are extremely expensive but can work well if properly set up. They also promote interoperabily since everyone is sharing the channels for talk groups. These trunked systems are nothing new but a big problem today is there are not enough available frequencies. Trunked systems make efficient use of the frequencies. Lets face it many departments have more frequencies than they need and in many places don't use common channel line ups or fireground frequencies.

All that being said simplex analog communications are still best for the fireground in my opinion. Simplex analog UHF radios are relativly inexpensive enough to allow departments to equip each riding position with one. They have the PTT ID's and emergency buttons too. Another good reason to put the PTT squak on the end of the transmission is it is an audible reminder that the person has finished their message (No need to say K). Background noise and SCBA make fireground communications very difficult but IMHO analog digital is still our best bet for now.

Manufactures are aware of our issues and are working on digital equipment to make it work for us.

Guys on this page there are the numerous opinions of the NYS attorney general in relation to Compatibility of Office. They make it clear that commissioners can't be employees too.

http://www.ag.ny.gov/bureaus/appeals_opinions/opinions/indexsub.html

I am curious to know what law this comes from. Thank you.

I'm pretty sure it is an opinion and not a law. I'm looking for it.

Hialeah re-hires laid off firefighters — for now

Patricia Mazzei and Christina Veiga

Miami Herald

Thursday, 10-06-11

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/10/06/2442241/hialeah-re-hires-laid-off-firefighters.html

This is now part of the play book. When you can't get enough concessions at the bargaining table threaten lay offs. Who cares if it's peoples livelyhood and the health and safety of those your sworn to serve. When you examine these cuts it was easy to see that services would be severly affected.

A career member of a fire district can not be a commissioner of the fire district they work in in NYS. Apparently many volunteers do even though they receive retirement benifits. If we truly want impartial members serving they should not be district employees and volunteer firefighters are employees of the district.

For the young members of this fourm considering becoming career firefighters it is worth considering military service and especially firefighting. An air force active duty firefighter would have the qualifications for these jobs. Veterans points are a part of civil service and military service will always look good on a resume. It can also help pay for college. There are plenty of former military firefighters in the career fire service. I'm sure there are some on this board that can provide further information.

In my opinion if Somers is serious about this then they should have an independent review of their FD. Get an outside view of it then condiser what the consultants report finds.

They need a consultant to review the consultant?

They are currently an ISO class 1 fire department.

That is about $250,000 PER FIRE for the roughly 2 working fires we average a year. Yes it will be sad if my home burns. Even sadder if I and/or my family is home when it does. I have 7 smoke detectors ($7 each) and about as many extinguishers. For $500,000, I will step out the window into fresh air, walk across the kitchen bump-out roof, and jump the 9 feet, hopefully into deep soft snow (most fires are in winter).

Think about the motorist trapped in their car. This crew will get them out faster saving lives. I'm sure a paramedic can relate to that.

I would be a little leary of the $7 smoke detector. Hard wired wireless linked and dual sensors are available. They have ones that talk to your kids because it's proven to work.

Few would argue that defense from airborne attacks is the responsiblity of the federal government. Rightfully so the Police Commissioner is concerned with federal ability to protect NYC and response times. The facts actually support this thinking. Two of the closest bases that flew fighters on 9/11/01 no longer do. Syracuse's 174th now flys drones (was F-16s) and Otis AFB (on the cape) no longer flys combat jets (scrambled 2 F-15s on 9/11). I really think more pressue should have been put on the federal government to have closer capabilities to intercept hijacked airliners or other terrorist planes. To the best of my knowledge the closest resources are in NJ Air Guard F-16s out of Egg Harbor, NJ. But that's an air guard base and I'm not sure they are in constant readiness. Seems to me that Washington has done a good job of making sure Washington is protected from this threat.

Yes, really. Nobody brought any legal facts except the reference to NYS PL Article 35. If your referring to your own post, you merely brought a quote. While it may be entirely accurate, and I suspect it is, it is only tangentially related to the topic. Your article discusses not who might be doing the actually shooting down, rather who is giving the orders.

DOD has been quoted in the media numerous times in the last couple of days citing the same policy.

And I didn't see anyone from Law Enforcement state "this does not apply to them." (Could you point that post out to us?)

Authority for the military to take such action would have to come from the President but we're not talking about the military so I don't think Congress has any jurisdiction.

The NYPD has the authority to protect its citizens within NYC so I'm not sure what all the hype is about.

Who has to give the NYPD the authority to do anything besides the Mayor and City Council?

Thank you for making the effort to cite something to support these statements. However, in context, this statement is referring to the authority for military assets to take such action. It doesn't speak to the use of force by law enforcement or other federal agencies.

Your source is also an article, not a law or regulation so it still has not been established that there is a law prohibiting the NYPD from taking such action.

As you know Chris, when any inherently technical legal issue arises, we see 100% opinion and rumor, and generally no facts.

Really? Some of us brought some facts to the table. The DOD has been pretty clear that the authority to take down airliners comes from some pretty high up in the DOD. While this is a fact a couple of the members of law enforcement have asserted that this does not apply to them. I have yet to see any facts to back up this claim.

Can you cite your source for this requirement?

“The authority to shoot down a civilian aircraft is delegated to a very small number of very senior officials, civilian and military, within the Department of Defense,” McHale said.

http://www.airspacemag.com/flight-today/Dont-Cross-That-Line.html?c=y&page=1

That's sooooooome wheelbase. Don't forget to figure in the price of the repairs after sideswiping things.

16 fire5 In Westchester a Deputy Coordinator (Battalion) is dispatched upon the transmission of a 10-75 by the IC. Since NY is a home rule state it is the chief/IC's call on requesting mutual aid. Most departments have their major alarm policies in the CAD at 60 control usually up to at least the 3rd alarm. If I am on a scene as a battalion I only request through 60 control what the IC asks for, sometimes they say which dept they want sometimes they don't, in that case I will simply request (for example 1&1 to ABC dept) and leave the rest in the capable hands at 60 control.

If that is all the coordinator can/does do then I don't see the need for the qualifications in the recent announcement. If you only ask for what the IC asks for and nothing more or less I really don't see the need for coordinators.

I certainly hope that "Who Is Going To Cover The Cost", "Paid vs. Volunterr Conflicts", and "Who Is In Charge" (Checking Egos In At The Door) DOES NOT play into any department within Westchester County going up there to assist up there. Its about providing "AID" that has been requested. Cities/Towns/Villages who are part of the Westchester County Mutual Aid Program should be available and immediately made ready to assist, in case of Disaster Support, if the "COUNTY" offers assistance to other COUNTIES within the State.

Or am I incorrect in these assumptions?

Cost is definatly an issue. The FDNY IMT is rarely called for that reason.

We've touched on this before probably as a tangent to other threads. It's a great topic Seth. Most places now have box assignments and they may involve move ups and relocates as part of it. It's not a bad idea to analyze coverage gaps that are going to occur as a part of multiple mutual aid requests. In most cases in NYC the relocators that occur on the all hands usually are not sent to the fire as additional alarms are transmitted. In places like Westchester it would probably be a good idea to send a coordinator to 60 Control on say 3rd alarms or greater and they could manage resources. One problem is that they may not have the power to relocate without the home chiefs permission. I think they should delagate this duty to the dispatchers.

This is just going to get turned into a pissing match as usual. (It has already started-oh this is what con ed line guys told me--i spoke with a con ed emerg serv supervisor about this....mimicking eachothers posts by numbering your arguments) This website is notorious for this and is becoming a waste to bother trying to discuss incident photos.

I however think that this being on FF close calls or wherever it was found was enough for this dept and the people involved and doesn't need to be taken on by emtbravo. We don't know the whole story so we shouldn't say omg wtf because as firefighters we have to adapt to the situation and also we really don't need to say he has to own up to everything that he did and take accountability for his actions. No he really doesn't, especially not to anyone on this website.

The only thing I can make of this post is your either friends with the subject of the photo, in the department, or both. Either way why can't we agree at the very least in hindsight it was a bad idea. You know what this website is becoming notorious for? People to the end defending some real bad tactics. We have a number of people sticking by using hyraulic spreaders to lift a car in another thread even after some of us have shared our experinces where things didn't work or are too dangerous to be used as a tactic. It's never good to be in the spotlight like this but it ocassionally happens to even the best out there the difference is they realize their mistakes and don't let them happen again. A previous post just aluded to it and I'll bet there are some officers on here that won't allow this to happen if they are in the same situation now that they have reviewed this. That's the reason that the secret list posts this stuff.

Risk vs. Benifit

Huge risk-no benifit. If it really needs to be put out let Con Ed do it.

TSU has one SOC Firefighter.

Don't forget the MSU rigs spend their day making the rounds to the cylinder depots throughout the city every day (at least one per battalion)

The Firehouse Inovations door is the best I have seen out there. It comes at a price. Over 6K. I think it's worth it especially if you can work out some sharing agreement. If one dept. has a bail out window and the next has a roof simulator and one has a door you could work out a rotation. You can practice multiple evolutions including spiking the jam. The biggest asset I see is the durability. Ask any FDNY member about the ones at the rock and you will hear that after repeated use they have stood the test of time. Mike is a real knowledgeable guy and can work with you. I'm sure he can answer any questions you have. If someone needs assistance getting in contact with him PM me.

Here's an almost excellent video of the first few minutes of the incident.

The naration from the amateur videoagraphers is priceless in these videos.

In Manhattan these were frequent. I worked with ESU on plenty of these and they went well. Most involved fatalities. We had a floor jack on the rig which was priceless. We also had bottle jacks which i think most FDNY trucks now carry (I think ESU has them too). They work well too. You really need to get down on the ground and size up where your going to lift off. This is where the mechanical aptitude of our people comes in real handy and I would agree with most that the Xbox generation is not as savy in this realm but they sure can text. Also being the officer you really need to be the boss at these things. People are trying to do there best to save a life in a desperate situation. It's the job of chief and company officers to slow the incident down and assure we act in quick but planned deliberate ways.

I think we can all learn from this. First the spreader is a bad option especially with all the other stuff we carry these days. Also company officers should be a strong presence at these incidents. Get right to where the work will be done and give direction.