velcroMedic1987

I don't think so isn't Greenberg EMS all police officers. If that's the case it would not be open to the public. You would have to be a police officer frist.

Greenburgh has both civilian and sworn EMT's and paramedics. It isn't just one or the other.

Not surprising that this thread gets no reaction or responses. We are our own worst enemy and the accidents and preventable injuries bear that out.

Have a standard, train to the standard and hold people accountable to make sure we meet the standard in everything they do.

I hope that's the case!

Is anyone actually positive that an inspection was being done? Is it possible that the DOH inspector stopped to offer assistance?

I hope that's the case!

State EMS can do inspections at any time as long as you do not have a patient on board

or responding to an emergency.

It is common to perform the inspections at ER bays or Stations (as you mentioned)

but I have also seen roadside ones being performed very similar to a traffic stop.

State EMS vehicles are equipped with Red Lights/Siren so pulling over would not be

a courtesy, It's the law.

This generates some interesting questions.

Why do NYS DOH BEMS vehicles even have red lights and sirens? Are they authorized emergency vehicles? (This creates an even more interesting question, why?)

Does the State of NY have an EMS agency code and inspect their own vehicles as "emergency ambulance service vehicles"?

Given the inherent danger of roadside stops, why on Earth would a state EMS rep decide to "pull over" another EMS vehicle on the side of the road? Couldn't he follow them to their base or hospital? What was the "emergency"? (I don't think this is an emergency operation under NYS law.)

If someone refuses to pull over for the DOH buff mobile what if anything can be done to them? They're not a peace or police officer are they?

Vehicle and Traffic

§ 101. Authorized emergency vehicle. Every ambulance, police vehicle

or bicycle, correction vehicle, fire vehicle, civil defense emergency

vehicle, emergency ambulance service vehicle, blood delivery vehicle,

county emergency medical services vehicle, environmental emergency

response vehicle, sanitation patrol vehicle, hazardous materials

emergency vehicle and ordnance disposal vehicle of the armed forces of

the United States.

Vehicle and Traffic

§ 114-b. Emergency operation. The operation, or parking, of an

authorized emergency vehicle, when such vehicle is engaged in

transporting a sick or injured person, transporting prisoners,

delivering blood or blood products in a situation involving an imminent

health risk, pursuing an actual or suspected violator of the law, or

responding to, or working or assisting at the scene of an accident,

disaster, police call, alarm of fire, actual or potential release of

hazardous materials or other emergency. Emergency operation shall not

include returning from such service.

Vehicle and Traffic

§ 115-c. Emergency ambulance service vehicle. An emergency ambulance

service vehicle shall be defined as an appropriately equipped motor

vehicle owned or operated by an ambulance service as defined in section

three thousand one of the public health law and used for the purpose of

transporting emergency medical personnel and equipment to sick or

injured persons.

https://www.faa.gov/uas/nprm/

The Department of Transportation's Federal Aviation Administration has proposed a framework of regulations that would allow routine use of certain small unmanned aircraft systems (UAS) in today's aviation system, while maintaining flexibility to accommodate future technological innovations. The FAA proposal offers safety rules for small UAS (under 55 pounds) conducting non-recreational operations. The rule would limit flights to daylight and visual-line-of-sight operations. It also addresses height restrictions, operator certification, optional use of a visual observer, aircraft registration and marking, and operational limits.

OK Folks, here is the bottom line in regards to both Mount Vernon and Yonkers:

As Property Taxes have risen greatly in 40 years, Fire Protection in both cities has drastically been cut. Here is a look (You tell us what Department has taken more of a hit over 40 years. Maybe Barry McGoey should be barking at Mayor Spano just as hard as he is barking at Mayor Davis)

Mount Vernon Fire Department 1975 vs, 2015

Front Line Apparatus:

1975 - 2015

Engine Company 1 - Decommissioned - Spare Engine Company 1

Engine Company 2 - Engine Company 2

Engine Company 3 - Engine Company 3

Engine Company 4 - Engine Company 4

Engine Company 5 - Engine Company 5

Engine Company 6 - Engine Company 6

Snorkel 1 - Tower Ladder 1

Truck Company 2 - Ladder 2

Truck Company 3 - Ladder 3

Truck Company 4 - Decommissioned - Spare Ladder 4

Rescue 1 - Rescue 1

LOSS IN FRONT LINE RIGS - 1 Engine Company and 1 Truck Company

Reserve Rigs:

Foam 1 - Decommissioned

Yonkers Fire Department

1975 - 2015

Engine Company 1 - Decommissioned

Engine Company 2 - Decommissioned

Engine Company 3 - Engine Company 303

Engine Company 4 - Engine Company 304

Engine Company 6 - Engine Company 306

Engine Company 7 - Engine Company 307

Engine Company 8 - Engine Company 308

Engine Company 9 - Engine Company 309

Engine Company 10 - Engine Company 310

Engine Company 11 - Squad 11

Engine Company 12 - Engine Company 312

Engine Company 13 - Engine Company 313

Engine Company 14 - Engine Company 314

Tower Ladder 1 - Tower Ladder 71

Truck 2 - Ladder 72

Truck 3 - Ladder 73

Truck 4 - Ladder 74

Truck 5 - Tower Ladder 75

Truck 6 - Decommissioned

Truck 7 - Ladder 70

Rescue 1 - Rescue 1

LOSS IN FRONT LINE RIGS - 2 Engine Companies and 1 Truck Company

Instead of comparing apparatus, how about we compare the personnel? That's the real issue here. Is the personnel complement in Yonkers higher or lower than in 1975? Does the comparison with 1975 even matter?

Who complies with NFPA 1710 and who doesn't?

RIP, John! You left us too soon and will be missed. Condolences to all his friends and family at the PCSO, Westchester ME, Westchester PSEF, Peekskill EMS, Cortlandt Paramedics.

Wow!

There are plenty of good EMS systems out there. Boston, King county, la county, some of the counties around DC come to mind. Westchester is not a system. It's a patchwork of solutions to issues. Without leadership, it won't change. Because, quite frankly, the people don't care. They do not care what the ambulance has written on it. They want someone to show up, be nice to them, fix them and get them to a hospital. With a pillow and a blanket. Seriously, that came out in a study/survey in Syracuse.

So unless someone inside or outside the system will step up and begin to build solutions, y'all are stuck with what ya got.

Ever notice that those model systems have a tribute page on their website to the visionary that made it happen? That's not by accident. Step up and lead if you want it fixed. Take charge of the EMS council and push. Read some of the tributes to visionary leaders. They have words like relentless, tireless, pursuing, energetic in them. Again, for a reason.

One of the visionaries that you describe put it very well about 25 years ago, the "problem is short-term leaders and long-term problems". This is as true now as it was when Jon Politis said it then.

We haven't had a true visionary in our region in quite some time. Nobody is stepping up to carry the torch and beat the drum for EMS. Typically when someone does start, he or she is villified and ostracized for putting forth an unpopular opinion and the agencies just keep on doing their own ridiculous thing. Look at the discussions we have had hear that highlight the point that we don't have a system, we have a patchwork of band-aids covering a multi-trauma patient.

One of the most affluent counties in the nation, with abundant resources that would make a lot of other places jealous, and we still can't cobble together a rational plan for the future. What ever happened to Westchester2000? That was 30 years ago and we're 15 years past the inception with few to none of the recommendations actually implemented.

Who will be our relentless, energetic, tireless visionary that we recognize in 2030?

How is that necessarily related to volunteer agencies though? I have seen paid emergency services that are just as toxic or hostile environments as anything in the volunteer services.

If a career/paid service fails, it goes out of business. We've seen this in our area too. The problem is the misconception that when you call your local VAC for help, neighbors drop what they're doing and come assist you out of the goodness of their hearts. Sadly, that motivation and ability for people to leave jobs (or volunteer at all) are becoming a thing of the past. There are plenty of businesses that fail because of poor leadership outside of emergency services too.

The volunteer, donation-supported model for EMS simply doesn't work in 2015. It may have been successful in the 20th century but every day it becomes more and more difficult to sustain. Training requirements, regulatory requirements, insurance and other costs, time commitment, commuting jobs, all work against the model. How many people actually work in the town where they leave any more? The number is vastly different than it was 20, 30 or 50 years ago.

You mean they don't roll on shabbos ?

In Rockland they used to use paid drivers on the Sabbath and holidays. He would drive for them and the EMT's were allowed to treat, etc. during the call. I don't know if they use the same system today.

SP is always going to provide patrol services. Everyone in the state pays for that service so its not likely to go anywhere.

I agree that this is probably all academic at this point, but maybe the Sheriff's "lukewarm" response to the idea is due to his concern/fear for the future of his department. Think about the possible implications for a Sheriff's Office if a County Police is formed, and again I stress this is ALL HYPOTHETICAL:

1. All field law enforcement operations become the County PD's responsibility. Sheriff's Office becomes responsible only for court security, county jail, and serving legal process. Hardly an exciting prospect for those working for the SO.

2. As in Westchester County, the County PD takes charge of almost everything and the Sheriff's Office becomes an Auxiliary unit.

Also, if there is a County PD formed I'd be surprised if an elected politician is put in charge of it...

Sheriffs Office in Westchester handes the civil matters. They also have a part-time unit of deputies who assist county and local PD with additional manpower. Sheriff role was merged with Commissioner through a legal change. Other counties kept the 2 roles separate.

Putnam could end up like Nassau County with the Sheriff handling only civil and jail. PD handles LE functions.

I think you're underestimating the power of the elected sheriff, especially in Putnam County. I don't think a lot of people are going to want to just cede control to the county executive or whomever would appoint a Police Commissioner.

The Sheriff's Office will certainly not want to be relegated to jail and civil duties alone and give up road patrol. Look at the battles raging in Rockland County about the Sheriff's road patrol. Westchester's "Sheriff" is the commissioner of public safety. The Public Safety Emergency Force is their "auxiliary" unit. And call it like it is, the County PD doesn't take almost everything anywhere. They're even second fiddle to the state police in Cortlandt where they're contracted for police service. County PD is only primary on parkways, parks and the airport. Hardly like Nassau or Suffolk.

It is true that "everyone in the state" pays for the state police but are their services equitably distributed? Is it fair to say that they "always provide patrol services"? They don't in NYC so half the population of the state is paying for something they don't receive. Do they do anything besides parkway patrol on Long Island?

Be careful saying always and never. It is definitely not a clear-cut process or decision. I'm also willing to bet that the residents of Carmel and Kent will fight against seeing their taxes being used to send their cops to other towns. I believe a study recently showed that Carmel PD was substantially understaffed based on calls for service, arrests, etc.

So does this mean Philipstown and Putnam Valley (who incidentally disbanded their local PD due to the expense [and politics]) will now have to subsidize the police services in Carmel and Kent?

Will the distribution of resources be equitable or will it just mean that the west side of the county continues to pay for services they don't receive because they're all focused on the east side of the county?

I don't read it that way. The article goes out of it's way to never directly link the merger with the Sheriffs Office. Even the Sheriff himself, who arguably would be that much more powerful, gives a very lukewarm quote. That being said, I personally think it should be the Sheriffs Office. The idea of two independent, county-wide police/patrol agencies is nonsensical.

You forgot to mention the state police which would be a third, independent, county-wide police/patrol agency.

Remember what Bnechis said about two year's ago about the cap. FD's and PD's are going to fail and fall by the wayside

PD's and FD's are pricing themselves right out of existence. The article says that the Carmel PD is about 33% of the town's entire budget. That's a huge expense for one department.

From my sources within Putnam the Sheriffs office road patrol kent Carmel police departments will all merge into a Putnam county police department.. The sheriff will only stay on to cover the jail and civil matters

Facscinating that there are sources before the study actually starts to decide what would be consolidated and how.

I'm pretty sure that the sheriff will have something to say about his jurisdiction being curtailed to make room for this "new" agency.

All these responses are just opinion and agency guidelines. Are there any state policies on the subject?

I looked through NYS EMS for policy statements and found nothing on the subject. Is it possible that there is no policy for this scenario?

I know of a fire in Avon, NY (the CRC fire a few months ago) that used 28 tankers on 2 fill sites! It's amazing what you can do with tankers when you know what you're doing......practice, practice, practice!!

[i'll look for the pics from that scene in the morning. I have no idea where I stored them]

Does Westchester even have 28 tankers? How far out would they have to go to get that many?

What percentage of the county is hydranted vs. not hydranted?

More legislating by the executive branch. Not a fan of these actions at all.

I know of one town in NJ where EMS is sent on all reported MVA's regardless of reported injuries. The ambulance gets there and the police will say they want everyone checked out. From what I have heard this is some sore of perceived liability issue where the police want EMS to be the ones to say there are no injuries. So in this case even when people say they are not paients they seem to be patients none the less.

That is just asinine. Using that logic EMS should have gotten 600 RMA's at the MNRR train accident a couple weeks ago. Did they? Or did they just seperate those claiming injury from everyone else?

That PD has issues and the EMS agency is nuts if they put up with it.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't there something mentioned a while ago about the Yonkers METU being part of the NY/NJ EMS Task Force or something like that? I think there was even a drill involving METU units from NJ, Yonkers and NYC. In NJ, it appears that each County has a METU/MERV/MAB/MCI type vehicle as part of this "EMS Task Force". I think all these vehicles were funded via federal grant money.

The Westchester DES METU was involved in that and yes there are about 18 of them in NY/NJ. I don't know if they call it an EMS task force but they did do a drill a while back at Orchard Beach I think.

Interesting development. I would be very surprised if this was an oversight by Monte. It must have been done on purpose, but I wonder why. Monte in the Bronx is not a trauma center, so it would not be to funnel lower Westchester trauma to that ER.

Anyone have any REAL factual insight as to what is behind this decision?

$$$$$$$$$

Doesn't get more factual than that!

Any where do you suppose the Federal Dollars to fund such grants come from? (They just don't say "print some money for this grant" !). It comes from taxpayer dollars (yours and mine). So the statement that non local or regional tax dollars were used, really doesn't make any sense, as "TAX DOLLARS" were used to fund the grant. And who pays into these "Tax Dollars"? You, I and everyone else. So we all should have a say into how our tax dollars are spent and used and to ensure that it is being used "Wisely and Effectively" and not used to be wasted on a piece of apparatus that just sits in a Garage in Valhalla. I say "Maximize" its potential use (As an Mass Casualty Unit Ambulance and Transportation Unit and not just as a unit to Mass Transport Nursing Home Patients)

That was my point exactly in response to an earlier post about it not being local tax money.

Taxes are taxes and waste is waste..

Enough of petty bickering

Since when is discussing the lack of standards or a cohesive system "petty bickering"?

I'm a huge fan of consolidation of certain services. There are simply too many little kingdoms around here. I'd venture to say that a consolidation that didn't save money, isn't really a consolidation.

You can cut administrative staff, for one. There should be fewer chiefs and some redundant bureaus, such as a detective units, IAB, ect would be trimmed from 2 - 1.

Yup, it means admin staff losing their jobs, hopefully only due to attrition. The only way to save money (real money) is to employ fewer people.

Or admin staff going to back to line positions and increasing the level of service provided.

Same number of people, more in the firehouse or on the street!