firecapt32

it seems pretty simple to me heres how ihandled it when asked in an Officers class--"if you cant do it in the library or in police headquarters what make you think you can do it in the fire house?"
in most cases the Department/company do not own the buildings--we are coustodians of the buildings--they belong to the public paid for by the public with taxes.
just my thoughts

Not to start an argument, but I have to ask if Everybodygoes is really a fireman? If so and you are actualy an Instructor, you really need to go. No disrespect but are you really listening to yourself? I work as a career firefighter in a fairly busy department, I also volunteer in my hometown. If members don't want to train, we don't need them. It is really that simple. If nobody volunteers than my taxes go up, but at least the people who show up are trained. Yes the fire department is my life and has been for 26 years. Why, because I still have passion for the job. I am an Instructor who teaches the same reguardless of them being volunteers or career recruits. To correct you on your EMS quote, the 60 hours DOH added is not a recomendation, it starts in my class next Tuesday. NYS needs to get in line with other states, and I think that is what they are trying to work towards. We just finished a FF1 class over 3 weeks, the 3 hottest weeks. These students busted their humps. You would think they won the lotto at the end, so much so that half of them went right into a week long FF2 class right after. Every single one of them signed up for the FF1 National Cert exam in September. You teach a good class they will come. Good Luck to you, hopefully you find happiness somewhere.

I wish I could "like" this more than once!!

My condolances go out to the whole Chulla Family.,I was lucky enough to know Mr.Chulla as a young firefighter in NT--now Sleppy Hollow. he always had a encourganging word to say to us youngsters. He always had a smile on his face and extreamly dediciaded to the fire service. So I not only salute a memebr of the "Greatest Generation" for his work for our Country but also salute his work in and for the fire service.
I know his work and committment to the fire service has been passed to his son Rich-- the Chulla tridation will live on.
Walter Ferguson
Former Ladder 38
NTFD

My condolances go out to the whole Chulla Family.,I was lucky enough to know Mr.Chulla as a young firefighter in NT--now Sleppy Hollow. he always had a encourganging word to say to us youngsters. He always had a smile on his face and extreamly dediciaded to the fire service. So I not only salute a memebr of the "Greatest Generation" for his work for our Country but also salute his work in and for the fire service.
I know his work and committment to the fire service has been passed to his son Rich-- the Chulla tridation will live on.
Walter Ferguson
Former Ladder 38
NTFD

Wether you like the site or dont care for the site. this has become a place to get information from others in the field. its a place where we can exchange ideas and information. look at how other departments handle things , even monday morning quarterbacking is allowed.. we can look at pictures and say I might have done this or that. I know i have used many pictures from this site in classes.
I guess what I am saying is it is time to step up reach in--- if every one just put in there coffee money for the week--you dont drink coffee--fribble money what ever you get the point.
This site has given us many oppurnities to advance the fire service. Its time for the fire service to give back. leets rise tot he occuasion.

Wether you like the site or dont care for the site. this has become a place to get information from others in the field. its a place where we can exchange ideas and information. look at how other departments handle things , even monday morning quarterbacking is allowed.. we can look at pictures and say I might have done this or that. I know i have used many pictures from this site in classes.
I guess what I am saying is it is time to step up reach in--- if every one just put in there coffee money for the week--you dont drink coffee--fribble money what ever you get the point.
This site has given us many oppurnities to advance the fire service. Its time for the fire service to give back. leets rise tot he occuasion.

Wether you like the site or dont care for the site. this has become a place to get information from others in the field. its a place where we can exchange ideas and information. look at how other departments handle things , even monday morning quarterbacking is allowed.. we can look at pictures and say I might have done this or that. I know i have used many pictures from this site in classes.
I guess what I am saying is it is time to step up reach in--- if every one just put in there coffee money for the week--you dont drink coffee--fribble money what ever you get the point.
This site has given us many oppurnities to advance the fire service. Its time for the fire service to give back. leets rise tot he occuasion.

Wether you like the site or dont care for the site. this has become a place to get information from others in the field. its a place where we can exchange ideas and information. look at how other departments handle things , even monday morning quarterbacking is allowed.. we can look at pictures and say I might have done this or that. I know i have used many pictures from this site in classes.
I guess what I am saying is it is time to step up reach in--- if every one just put in there coffee money for the week--you dont drink coffee--fribble money what ever you get the point.
This site has given us many oppurnities to advance the fire service. Its time for the fire service to give back. leets rise tot he occuasion.

Wether you like the site or dont care for the site. this has become a place to get information from others in the field. its a place where we can exchange ideas and information. look at how other departments handle things , even monday morning quarterbacking is allowed.. we can look at pictures and say I might have done this or that. I know i have used many pictures from this site in classes.
I guess what I am saying is it is time to step up reach in--- if every one just put in there coffee money for the week--you dont drink coffee--fribble money what ever you get the point.
This site has given us many oppurnities to advance the fire service. Its time for the fire service to give back. leets rise tot he occuasion.

You know, I looked at the tag Seth put on his post; "Haters are my motivators." Had to think about that one for a while. Then I remembered something. A Facebook Group. "I Hate EMTBravo." Had to look and saw the page had 169 "likes."
I wonder how those people feel now. If they feel anything at all that is.
I wonder what motivates people to hate. You think those people who took a Facebook page and turned it into a page of hate, you think that didn't hurt Seth? For the "sin" of having created a space for all of us to convene and talk about the jobs we have/had?
There should be no room in emergency services for hate. We're all supposed to be in the service of the people. Common cause.
Now that we can all see what the man has been through, I hope a lot of those haters are doing some soul searching. And regretting.

I read the article and it is always a good idea to evaluate your tactics and see what works and what doesn't. I am certain thhat FDNY will do scientific studies and end up with valid results.
I remember, however Lloyd Layman's experiments with fog. To some it became like the word of God. Others were skeptical and stayed with smooth bore nozzles. It started a debate within the fire service that never looked like it was going to end. Many were very opinionated regarding fog vs. straight, but very few actually went to their live burn place and tried both under the same conditions to form their opinion. They simply sided with one or the other. A large number of our colleagues sided with fog only because it was "new" and if you use something "new" you are progressive. We don't do that, do we? (PPV on attack, magic penetrating solutions , etc.)
Some of the FDNY article mentioned "Force the door...Control the door...wait to hear the glass break...then open the door slightly and bang the line off the ceiling" The reporter made it look like something new. I learned this method from FDNY's last set of fire tactics experiments. They tried many many tactics on many many fires. They did it over and over, and mostly at night. They kept and used the tactics that worked and discarded the ones that didn't. You say you never heard of this batch of experiments? It was done in about 1968-1974 in the South Bronx and called Burn Baby Burn. Thanks, Bronx firefighters of that era. I learned a lot.
Knock down a basement fire before going in? Now I think it's called Pushing a fire. Once again, thanks Bronx guys.
So the things that the FDNY study are probably nothing new, but I am sure they will tell us what worked and what didn't. I suggest we all just sit down and wait for the results and then try the ones that worked for FDNY.

Firefighter one might as you say "Gloss" over Building construction but as a Instructor i and many of my brother Instructors always state this is just the begining--learn your buildings- take a building construction course. Do not let this be the last you see of building construction.
Capt Nechis is right never say your training let you down

"The building is your enemy, and you must know your enemy" -Brannigan

Firefighter one might as you say "Gloss" over Building construction but as a Instructor i and many of my brother Instructors always state this is just the begining--learn your buildings- take a building construction course. Do not let this be the last you see of building construction.
Capt Nechis is right never say your training let you down

I remeber we were sitting in the Fire House Kitchen when the news of the fire broke and live fotage was interupting whatever was on. We all said: "They do not realize that they are operating at a bowstring truss". We could see it on the news 10-15 minutes before the collapse.
I hate to say it but, the majority of the fire service has already forgotten this or never learned the leason of this fire (and others).
If we allow our firefighters to respond to and enter structures without understanding the hazards of different construction, we have forgotten.
If we fail to utilize proper communications (including seperate fireground and dispatch) systems, we have forgotten.
If we fail to have enough firefighters during the early stages of a fire and enough in reserve (FAST & Stagging), we have forgotten.
If we fail to regularly inspect (and preplan) structures and allow illegal and dangerious practices to continue, we have forgotten.
When span of control is exceded and ICS not utilized, IC get overloaded and can not protect the members, we have forgotten.

The above conditions still occur in many departments and we will again have another incident that we "Will Never Forget".
Does your minimum training include; building construction for the fire service?
Does your dept. know its district and the hazards in it? If you do not do inspections/preplans, than the answer is NO.
Do you have proper communications (every LODD report says most do not)?
Do you have enough staff, early enough and trained properly?
Do you have properly trained staff, with the resources to command and properly run a firefight.
I keep fighting this fight, because I do remember.
"Let no man's ghost return to say: MY Training Let Me Down"

Monies received by most fire companies I know generally goes to some of, if not all of, the following;
- Station amenities not covered by the district / municipality (this includes cable, phone, internet, furniture, furnishings, etc.).
- Retention events (picnics, dinners, etc.).
- Public Awareness / Recruitment (websites, "members wanted" signs, open houses)
- Community Give-Backs (funding a Little League team, etc.)
- Celebrations (Wet Downs [usually open to the public], Anniversary dinners / parades [often open to the public], etc.)
I really don't think anyone that writes a donation check to their local FD isn't doing so because they want to show their support to those neighbors of theirs who are coming to their aid when they need them. Often times they make comments like "I wish I had the time to help" or "I give you guys a lot of credit for what you do." The ones that don't donate are either doing it because they can't afford to, don't donate to anything or just plain hate us.
jumping up and down, screaming that all volunteer fire departments are ripping off taxpayers, using donations for lavish vacations just isn't true for all of us. We don't even send our Chiefs to trade shows anymore because we realized that more time (let's be honest - money) was being pissed away at meals and lodging. The money we get from our Village for training is used for everyone and no longer pays for 2 or 3 guys to "vacation" in Baltimore. Sure, you sit in on one 3 hour seminar each day, but how many hours of that same day are you at the pool or the bar?
None of us are perfect. And at the end of the day I think most of us will agree that our "system" (to be used loosely) is fractured in New York, but it's what we have and we are all trying our best to do what we believe in - right?
To Mr. Flynn, I appreciate how strongly opinionated you are. We share that trait and I credit it to our similar first name. And believe me, I hold nothing against any one person, one organization or one group of individuals. What I do have a hard time with is anyone that wants to degrade any group or organization for doing something wrong, when everyone (myself included) has made mistakes as well.
I think all of us on EMTBravo should stop making everything a debate and try to put our energies into more prudent efforts.
Let's start by agreeing on one thing - whatever that one thing is - and working TOGETHER to find a resolution. Nothing will ever come from all of us (especially yours truly) getting all hot and bothered here.
To all, I apologize for my lunacy in earlier posts, but I tend to get emotional when my department gets lumped into the poor choices some others (and I am NOT talking about Irvington, so don't hate me guys!) routinely do.
Thanks.

You may be right they are like the Elks Club or any service organization BUT when they send out letters that say "please send you TAX EXEMPT Donation to xyz fire company" the situation changes also on that note if the Fire Department send the letter out and recieves the donation and then distributes it to the Fire Companies that also changes the status.
Everyone here on this thread knows that fire companies need money to do things-- donations to little leagues--sponsors to other organizations--pay for bands at parades--company outings. that is all well and good and keeps members interested in belonging. All concerned must be carefull when dealing with public monies and how they are recieved and spent. But mosy if all we have to be concerned in how the public preseves us. They after all is said and done are the ones we are sworn to protect.

You may be right they are like the Elks Club or any service organization BUT when they send out letters that say "please send you TAX EXEMPT Donation to xyz fire company" the situation changes also on that note if the Fire Department send the letter out and recieves the donation and then distributes it to the Fire Companies that also changes the status.
Everyone here on this thread knows that fire companies need money to do things-- donations to little leagues--sponsors to other organizations--pay for bands at parades--company outings. that is all well and good and keeps members interested in belonging. All concerned must be carefull when dealing with public monies and how they are recieved and spent. But mosy if all we have to be concerned in how the public preseves us. They after all is said and done are the ones we are sworn to protect.

This is one of the sorriest excuses for a document I have ever seen. All it does is "recommend." Yes, NY is a home rule state, but it does Require 229 hours of training for career firefighters under their document Administrative Standards for Firefighters. Where's the "home rule" in that? I believe the State could require a lot but just chooses not to. Even the 229 hours is minimal. Responsible fire departments are giving their probies somewhere in the range of 400 hours before they hit the street. Along with that, the required 100 hrs per annum cannot scratch the surface of the things they should be training on annually.
Where was home rule when the state mandated PASS devices and personal escape systems? The state jumped right over home rule when enough people demanded these items, and the state can do it in regards to training. All you have to do is get together and make a stink to enough stste legislators.
The argument for "home rule" and "recommendations instead of requirements" over the years has usually been something along the lines of "If we force too much training on firefighters, we will lose volunteers." Well, how would you rather lose them, because you require too much training, or would you rather carry them out in stokes baskets and put their name on that ever growing stone monument in Albany. (By the way, that monument sits in front of the place where they only "recommended" training. Ironic, isn't it?) This is not a salvo aimed at volunteers, either. The vols that see the need for training will stay.
I spent almost 35 years on the fire department and I cannot remember a time when I didn't want more skills and knowledge. Even in retirement, I am still learning. The Authority Having Jurisdiction should be within yourself. You should be begging your department for more training and knowledge.
How would you feel if you were personally responsible for losing a guy because you chose not to train on whatever killed your fellow firefighter? You have to live with that for the rest of your life?
Never let a man say that his training let him down.

Two thoughts on the subject
1- I had Nick in a few classes at the training center. A fire department could only wish for 20 or 30 more like him.
2- A fire company/ Department can raise all the funds they want and use it for anything they want as long as they adhere to the laws of new york and are honest with the community. Ex dont tell them it is TAX EXEMPT when its not.
ok one more thought any one who has taken a Fire Officer class witih me has heard the following. "if you cant do it in the library or the police station you brobely cant do it in the fire station" most if not all fire houses are public buildings-public law apply.
Irvington has a great many courageous firefighters and will work out their problems and they will continue their service in a professional manner to protect the citizens and the community and any one that happens to be in the community.

I'm a member of IFD with 20 plus years and at this point if I did not have to remain a member of the company to remain in the Department I would have already left. I can already hear the company officers saying then leave. I was Chief when this incident took place. That should identify me! First I will Apoligize to Nyq for how he was treated and say I wish I could have done more for you as Chief. At least the Village waited until I was out of office to ask you to resign. It's is actually interesting how you co-existed for almost a year and a half after you resigned from the company and remained with the Department with no issues. If the company did not decide to go non profit (or make it legal) Nyq would probably still be active in the department.Why is the company opening up additional corporations now? I also will say I'm embarrassed at the way the Company states they investigated? they agreed to let the villages investigate as one company officer stated. The Company is a separate entity(With separate company officers) occupying space in a village building should they not have an obloigation(legal) to investigate all claims of misconduct, sexual harrasment etc are they exempt from EEO laws? I took this complaint to the village after I discussed it with a Village trustee who was in attendance at the meeting when Nyq made his claim (I arrived at this meeting late from work however I did hear the tape from the meeting it was disgraceful) and was told if I did not bring the complaint to the village he would have to.I was critized by some of the membership even though as a elected village official I had a legal obligation to bring these claims forward maybe the company needs additional EEO training. I know after this incident we had a couple of hours I'm not sure it's enough. At least the Village's investigation was completed almost over a year and a half later. I think we in the all volunteer services know know how hard it is to find and retain good volunteers or even get our current members to respond as much as they are need. When the Village was trying to find the law that eliminated Nyq from the from the company I made a suggestion to the village administrator and one member of the current board that would have kept these issues in house I hope they and the other board members will do all they can to help find a solution to retain all the volunteers it can. If not I see it as a huge disservice to the Village residents. To the Current Chiefs especially Chief. Ruffler and Assistant Chief DePaoli I will apoligize now for any issues I will cause with this post. I will also thank you both for giving me 110 percent as my assistant Chiefs and only hope that once this is resolved I can continue to serve you and the village residents. As many of the posts state there a many quailfied firefighters in the IFD. Why should it not do eveything it can to retain and recruit all additional members.

Two thoughts on the subject
1- I had Nick in a few classes at the training center. A fire department could only wish for 20 or 30 more like him.
2- A fire company/ Department can raise all the funds they want and use it for anything they want as long as they adhere to the laws of new york and are honest with the community. Ex dont tell them it is TAX EXEMPT when its not.
ok one more thought any one who has taken a Fire Officer class witih me has heard the following. "if you cant do it in the library or the police station you brobely cant do it in the fire station" most if not all fire houses are public buildings-public law apply.
Irvington has a great many courageous firefighters and will work out their problems and they will continue their service in a professional manner to protect the citizens and the community and any one that happens to be in the community.

Two thoughts on the subject
1- I had Nick in a few classes at the training center. A fire department could only wish for 20 or 30 more like him.
2- A fire company/ Department can raise all the funds they want and use it for anything they want as long as they adhere to the laws of new york and are honest with the community. Ex dont tell them it is TAX EXEMPT when its not.
ok one more thought any one who has taken a Fire Officer class witih me has heard the following. "if you cant do it in the library or the police station you brobely cant do it in the fire station" most if not all fire houses are public buildings-public law apply.
Irvington has a great many courageous firefighters and will work out their problems and they will continue their service in a professional manner to protect the citizens and the community and any one that happens to be in the community.

It would not be so hard if the neighbors had the same minimum standards for response time, training, officers, manning, etc. Until there is standardization, its less to do with liking one neighbor more than another, but if you can not get 2-3 well trained interior firefighters and an experienced officer out the door without toning out multiple times or waiting for a recall of off duty firefighters, than the IC is better off getting another dept. from farther away.
Also, everyone seams to think that mutual aid will resolve all the staffing problems. Mutual aid, reguardless of how good they are is 2nd rate. ISO credits them at 90% of their home town rating when they come to help and its because they know that with different SOP's, tactics, tools and standards, they never perform as well out of town as they do in town.
Westchester can get 30 Engines, 15 trucks, 5 rescues and 30 chiefs to a major incident, but they will not perform as a single unit like any major FD can.