ckroll

Agreed. Well said PEMO3. Falls where a person can't get up happen for a reason. As a really lazy medic, I would much rather have that talk with a patient and family when the patient can still go in BLS than wait for it to be a true emergency. As ALS we 'assisted' someone today where it got bumped up to a transport. Please keep in mind our patient populations. There are those who see smail things as a crisis, and then there are those who 'don't want to be a burden' and struggle to keep going long past the point when help is needed. As EMS providers we have the opportunity to help families make good decisions for loved ones, and some days it is a lift assist, and some days it is getting the family member evaluated in the ED.
Look at lift assists as an opportunity to make a difference in people's lives. Send ALS to all of them and then redirect ALS if something moe urgent comes up. And I speak only fo rmyself, but I'd rather go out 50 times for nothing for the opportunity to catch one person with a treatable cardiac condition .

If the lift assist is truely a case of a "I fallen and I can't get up" EMS should definitely respond to evaluate the patient for possible injuries from a fall and if a medical condition exists that precipitated the fall along with PD or FD depending on the area of responsibility for possible forced entry. When the lft assist becomes a "regular" then contact should be made with a family member or a DSS referral should be made to the office of aging for the persons safety. If the person has become a fall risk and clearly needs 24 hour care as a health care provider you can not ignore this situation either. While it may not be a true emergency it can escalate into one when the next fall is down a flight of stair or in a full bathtub. These lift assists are looked at as nussance calls but lets face facts they are really cries for help from patients with a voice that sometimes we either don't understand or don't take the time to understand. Remember we can all be that "lift assist" some day.

I will not pre-judge the driver as anyone who has been in EMS long enough has run a red light at some time in their lives. IF we run red lights it is only a matter of time until we get hit That said, if he had a 'do over' on this, I wager he'd have exercised more caution.
It brings up several good points. First, actions have consequences and we now live in a world where it is increasingly likely that those actions will be recorded.
Second, if one does the math, we 'outrun' our sirens at about 15 mph in an urban environment, taking into account sight lines, echoing, car soundproofing and reaction times. Approaching any intersection faster than that is pushing the envelope.
Third, any agency that is using electronic data collection to track and push its members about response times might want to think about what can happen when you make numbers a priority.
Fourth, the stretcher broke loose. I thought it would have held.
Fifth, there is a new DOH policy statement about being belted in at all times. Before we all jump up and down and point out how stupid that is, watch the video one more time.

A Loafpack 12?

I heard the film was shot by Abraham Zapruder.....

As much as I love it, the photography is way too smooth. A car following that knew it would happen? That continues in watching it happen..... Then without so much as a door opening it fades to an over the rim shot?
Sorry, unless Martihn Scorsese was on vacation in Norway, that video had some serious 'help'.
And posted April 2nd which means it happened April 1st?

Pre-sited for WMC

I will not pre-judge the driver as anyone who has been in EMS long enough has run a red light at some time in their lives. IF we run red lights it is only a matter of time until we get hit That said, if he had a 'do over' on this, I wager he'd have exercised more caution.
It brings up several good points. First, actions have consequences and we now live in a world where it is increasingly likely that those actions will be recorded.
Second, if one does the math, we 'outrun' our sirens at about 15 mph in an urban environment, taking into account sight lines, echoing, car soundproofing and reaction times. Approaching any intersection faster than that is pushing the envelope.
Third, any agency that is using electronic data collection to track and push its members about response times might want to think about what can happen when you make numbers a priority.
Fourth, the stretcher broke loose. I thought it would have held.
Fifth, there is a new DOH policy statement about being belted in at all times. Before we all jump up and down and point out how stupid that is, watch the video one more time.

I will not pre-judge the driver as anyone who has been in EMS long enough has run a red light at some time in their lives. IF we run red lights it is only a matter of time until we get hit That said, if he had a 'do over' on this, I wager he'd have exercised more caution.
It brings up several good points. First, actions have consequences and we now live in a world where it is increasingly likely that those actions will be recorded.
Second, if one does the math, we 'outrun' our sirens at about 15 mph in an urban environment, taking into account sight lines, echoing, car soundproofing and reaction times. Approaching any intersection faster than that is pushing the envelope.
Third, any agency that is using electronic data collection to track and push its members about response times might want to think about what can happen when you make numbers a priority.
Fourth, the stretcher broke loose. I thought it would have held.
Fifth, there is a new DOH policy statement about being belted in at all times. Before we all jump up and down and point out how stupid that is, watch the video one more time.

First, it most certainly is a dig at individuals who participate in ART's. If you're going to put it out there, stand by what you've said, or be human about it and apologise.
Second, know what you are talking about. //www.empiresart.com/ These are RESPONSE teams, not rescue or field teams. The intent is to plan in advance of disasters so that facilities that may be appropriate for sheltering can be identified and the logistics worked out prior to the emergency. The intent specifically is so that rescue of pets or their people can be avoided.
Your assumption that EMS and ARTs are mutually exclusive or even related is not substantiated. Neither is your assertion correct about government priorities.
Third, if you have chest pain and my cats are about drown...... take aspirin and call me back in the morning.

Good point. One might also ask why a glass won't hold water once it's been dropped. Democracy is a fragile construct and there was a moment there where it could have happened. Once a totalitarian theocracy has the reins, it's pretty much over democracy-wise for centuries. Religious extremists, here or there, have little tolerance for free choice.
My concern is that America has had limited success managing countries in the Middle East. It is a different mindset over there and they have a tolerance for bloodshed that most of us cannot even imagine. I can only claim to have read part of the history because invariably there comes a point where it is so brutal that I can't make my eyes keep reading it. Dropping bombs on civilizations capable of that kind of hatred isn't going to make them any more interested in considering our way of life, or trading with us. It's going to prove we are the great satan they have been told we are and it will fuel generations of young people to even greater hatred and acts of violence towards us.
Someone needs to step up and find ways to solve problems without bloodshed. It's not likely to be them, so it needs to be us. Iran is not Germany. It's neighbors are Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Turkmenistan, Turkey. There are mountains between here and there that make 'Sound of Music' look like a walk in the park. The greater threat is that they will export their fear and hatred, displacing reason and informed discourse. A violent regime wants more violence, because that is confrontation they understand.
Sanctions and computer viruses don't light up the night sky or make for great moments on TV. It takes time. There is a difference between patience and appeasement.

Do you know why Iran has such a poor opinion of the US?
Maybe it's because when Iran wanted freedom from tyranny and the right to control their own oil that the US moved against Iran and overthrew a democratically elected prime minister and installed the Shah which led to the uprising that allowed religious fundementalists to take over the country.
What we have in Iran right now is a disaster that we the United States was instrumental in creating.
I think there has already been enough bloodshed in Iran thanks to the US interventions and that we owe the Iranian people a non violent solution to a problem we created.

Here's a thought. Cut a wire and see who shows up to fix it.

This scenario states no radio, and not enough air to get to the door. The IC does not know there is an emergency until someone who knows two guys are in a building says something. That anyone will hear a PASS alarm outside, [save for the 4 that are going off because people are standing around] and figure out it means people are trapped is not taking into account the natural chaos of the fireground.
If no one knows you need rescuing, nobody's coming. What part of really close to the door and really dead am I missing?

OK fellow cowboys..... We've all chosen to haul out our victim, get as far as we can and take our chances from there. This scenario isn't over. Here's some details. You are 'Mac', young, strong, ex-marine, works out every day, so handsome you wear a bag on your head to shop so women won't faint away. Your partner Hank is another story. He's 59, balding, a little heavy, probably should have put down the hose 5 years ago when his knees got bad, but he's got 14 year old twin girls who are crazy for horses, so he isn't finished raising a family, needs the income.
You two have your victim half way down the hall when your partner Hank's air runs out first. Something's wrong, he panics, rips off the regulator takes a deep breath of burning plastic. Heat, exertion, bad air, panic, whatever.... he's having a heart attack. He pukes in his face mask and slumps to the ground.
Now you have a victim, a partner down, one working face mask and one partial tank of air. You can't haul Hank to safety on what's left in your tank. What do you do now? Leave partner and victim? Give Hank your tank and hope you get out on room air?
[And think about our British friends, Stan and Ollie. They left with enough air to get out. They are at the truck getting new tanks when Ollie has his MI and he is already in an ambulance on its way to a cath lab. Stan has a new partner, Angus, and they're heading back in to rescue the victim.]
So, what do you do with one nearly empty tank of air one mask and two people who need rescuing? You've got 7 minutes to figure it out before the scenario becomes one mask and no bottled air.

A couple of observations:
Coggs says he's glad he's not the victim in the British system. By choosing to run out of air inside a burning building doesn't he become a victim in the Cowboy system?
How 'flexible' should a fireground be? When 'flexible' works you're an innovator, when it fails it's called freelancing. I think long term, patients and fellow firefighters may be best served if we are all working with the same set of rules and stick to them. 20 guys at a fire scene with nothing more than the command to 'do the right thing' scares me. The best team I ever worked with was my high angle rescue team. We knew exactly where we had flexibility and where we did not. Breaking any rules just was not tolerated because lives hung in the balance. I do not recall that having to play by rules ever limited us... and when things got tough we all knew what each other would be doing, even out of radio contact. That was a huge positive.
We have high capacity tanks, gauges, alarms. All of this is intended to get us out of buildings while we still have air. Just past agressive is reckless. Knowing where that line is means knowing what your limits are. Here is a proposal. Anyone who thinks he's going to grow a mustache and then breathe through it as a back up plan needs to have done it in a drill. Why don't departments do the drill? Do your firefighers who think they've got what it takes to make their own rules actually have what it takes? Now is the time to find out.
I like ALSfirefighters suggestion that if a rule is to be broken, split the team and get word out that there's an emergency. That said, I'm not sure of the advantage of leaving someone behind.
The observation that depending on the scenario, 4 fresh rescuers might do the victim more good than 2 tired ones with no air is well taken. To give a better answer to the original question, I think I'd drag a victim as far as I can until the alarm says get out and then I get out.
Excellent topic, thanks Coggs.

A couple of observations:
Coggs says he's glad he's not the victim in the British system. By choosing to run out of air inside a burning building doesn't he become a victim in the Cowboy system?
How 'flexible' should a fireground be? When 'flexible' works you're an innovator, when it fails it's called freelancing. I think long term, patients and fellow firefighters may be best served if we are all working with the same set of rules and stick to them. 20 guys at a fire scene with nothing more than the command to 'do the right thing' scares me. The best team I ever worked with was my high angle rescue team. We knew exactly where we had flexibility and where we did not. Breaking any rules just was not tolerated because lives hung in the balance. I do not recall that having to play by rules ever limited us... and when things got tough we all knew what each other would be doing, even out of radio contact. That was a huge positive.
We have high capacity tanks, gauges, alarms. All of this is intended to get us out of buildings while we still have air. Just past agressive is reckless. Knowing where that line is means knowing what your limits are. Here is a proposal. Anyone who thinks he's going to grow a mustache and then breathe through it as a back up plan needs to have done it in a drill. Why don't departments do the drill? Do your firefighers who think they've got what it takes to make their own rules actually have what it takes? Now is the time to find out.
I like ALSfirefighters suggestion that if a rule is to be broken, split the team and get word out that there's an emergency. That said, I'm not sure of the advantage of leaving someone behind.
The observation that depending on the scenario, 4 fresh rescuers might do the victim more good than 2 tired ones with no air is well taken. To give a better answer to the original question, I think I'd drag a victim as far as I can until the alarm says get out and then I get out.
Excellent topic, thanks Coggs.

And if you swallow the lead, it does a colonoscopy.

A couple of observations:
Coggs says he's glad he's not the victim in the British system. By choosing to run out of air inside a burning building doesn't he become a victim in the Cowboy system?
How 'flexible' should a fireground be? When 'flexible' works you're an innovator, when it fails it's called freelancing. I think long term, patients and fellow firefighters may be best served if we are all working with the same set of rules and stick to them. 20 guys at a fire scene with nothing more than the command to 'do the right thing' scares me. The best team I ever worked with was my high angle rescue team. We knew exactly where we had flexibility and where we did not. Breaking any rules just was not tolerated because lives hung in the balance. I do not recall that having to play by rules ever limited us... and when things got tough we all knew what each other would be doing, even out of radio contact. That was a huge positive.
We have high capacity tanks, gauges, alarms. All of this is intended to get us out of buildings while we still have air. Just past agressive is reckless. Knowing where that line is means knowing what your limits are. Here is a proposal. Anyone who thinks he's going to grow a mustache and then breathe through it as a back up plan needs to have done it in a drill. Why don't departments do the drill? Do your firefighers who think they've got what it takes to make their own rules actually have what it takes? Now is the time to find out.
I like ALSfirefighters suggestion that if a rule is to be broken, split the team and get word out that there's an emergency. That said, I'm not sure of the advantage of leaving someone behind.
The observation that depending on the scenario, 4 fresh rescuers might do the victim more good than 2 tired ones with no air is well taken. To give a better answer to the original question, I think I'd drag a victim as far as I can until the alarm says get out and then I get out.
Excellent topic, thanks Coggs.

That we should not get into this position bears repeating. Going into a dangerous situation without the resources to get the job done not professional. And depending on what kind of smoke it is, a little might kill you.
When working through an 'I'd risk my life if I had to...' scenario like this..... well of course we will all say, yes we'd risk our lives to save another person [preferably an adorable 3 year old and not a felonious, disease encrusted, drug dealer]. But on some level, allowing ourselves the luxury of considering our own heroism encourages the behavior.
Depending on how this scenario plays out, there are three dead people. Taking the approach that in the absence of adequate resources that the victim must be left behind may be useful in the long run. If we don't get to be the hero unless we are prepared, then maybe we will take the extra time to check the gear, switch out a low tank and to ask ourselves what will we do when this goes bad BEFORE we go into the building.
That said, if it's low probability of death and the victim is viable and just darling, then I'd take the chance. If the probability of none of us making it out is high, then the drug dealer is on his own until I can get a fresh tank of air. And then I'd find another line of work because making a mistake in an office is a whole lot different from making a mistake on the fireground.

That we should not get into this position bears repeating. Going into a dangerous situation without the resources to get the job done not professional. And depending on what kind of smoke it is, a little might kill you.
When working through an 'I'd risk my life if I had to...' scenario like this..... well of course we will all say, yes we'd risk our lives to save another person [preferably an adorable 3 year old and not a felonious, disease encrusted, drug dealer]. But on some level, allowing ourselves the luxury of considering our own heroism encourages the behavior.
Depending on how this scenario plays out, there are three dead people. Taking the approach that in the absence of adequate resources that the victim must be left behind may be useful in the long run. If we don't get to be the hero unless we are prepared, then maybe we will take the extra time to check the gear, switch out a low tank and to ask ourselves what will we do when this goes bad BEFORE we go into the building.
That said, if it's low probability of death and the victim is viable and just darling, then I'd take the chance. If the probability of none of us making it out is high, then the drug dealer is on his own until I can get a fresh tank of air. And then I'd find another line of work because making a mistake in an office is a whole lot different from making a mistake on the fireground.

That we should not get into this position bears repeating. Going into a dangerous situation without the resources to get the job done not professional. And depending on what kind of smoke it is, a little might kill you.
When working through an 'I'd risk my life if I had to...' scenario like this..... well of course we will all say, yes we'd risk our lives to save another person [preferably an adorable 3 year old and not a felonious, disease encrusted, drug dealer]. But on some level, allowing ourselves the luxury of considering our own heroism encourages the behavior.
Depending on how this scenario plays out, there are three dead people. Taking the approach that in the absence of adequate resources that the victim must be left behind may be useful in the long run. If we don't get to be the hero unless we are prepared, then maybe we will take the extra time to check the gear, switch out a low tank and to ask ourselves what will we do when this goes bad BEFORE we go into the building.
That said, if it's low probability of death and the victim is viable and just darling, then I'd take the chance. If the probability of none of us making it out is high, then the drug dealer is on his own until I can get a fresh tank of air. And then I'd find another line of work because making a mistake in an office is a whole lot different from making a mistake on the fireground.

That we should not get into this position bears repeating. Going into a dangerous situation without the resources to get the job done not professional. And depending on what kind of smoke it is, a little might kill you.
When working through an 'I'd risk my life if I had to...' scenario like this..... well of course we will all say, yes we'd risk our lives to save another person [preferably an adorable 3 year old and not a felonious, disease encrusted, drug dealer]. But on some level, allowing ourselves the luxury of considering our own heroism encourages the behavior.
Depending on how this scenario plays out, there are three dead people. Taking the approach that in the absence of adequate resources that the victim must be left behind may be useful in the long run. If we don't get to be the hero unless we are prepared, then maybe we will take the extra time to check the gear, switch out a low tank and to ask ourselves what will we do when this goes bad BEFORE we go into the building.
That said, if it's low probability of death and the victim is viable and just darling, then I'd take the chance. If the probability of none of us making it out is high, then the drug dealer is on his own until I can get a fresh tank of air. And then I'd find another line of work because making a mistake in an office is a whole lot different from making a mistake on the fireground.

Yes, really. " I had him sitting there for several days thinking it was just a harmless variety of snake...." That is leaving an animal to suffer. It does not protect your family. I do not question that a rattlesnake does not belong in a house and one caught in a trap like that needs to be euthanized.
That said, it is a sentient being who was near death and terrified. You could have dispatched it with a shovel, ended its misery and made your family and your trash safer. To claim it was necessary to watch it suffer to protect your family is foolish.

Venom is the same strength. In point of fact, juveniles are not more aggressive, but lack experience, so they will react more quickly to insult. They are also more difficult to identify and given their small size, people often don't take them seriously. Crotalids are 'upland vipers' preferring dry rocky areas as far from human habitation as possible. Snakes will avoid humans whenever possible. Snake/human interaction is invariably the result of a snake being cornered and threatened.
Let us go back to the story. It started with a glue trap. There were mice. The snake was in the garage because there were mice in the garage. Snakes go after dinner, not people. If you've got rodents, sooner or later, you'll have snakes. They are the best mouse trap on earth. They are silent, re-setting mobile mouse removers that turn mice into tiny biodegradable pellets and never have to be emptied. Mice can smell a snake in the house and won't nest there. If you keep chickens, a rat snake is your best friend.
What people fail to recognize is how important snakes are for rodent control. Especially in the Northeast, without snakes and their unique ability to get into the smallest of places, rodent populations would explode. Lyme disease represents a much larger threat for disability than snake bites. While I've never handled rattlesnakes, as they are protected in New York, I can tell you copperheads are gentle, docile creatures. The only time I've been bitten was by a juvenile when I screwed up while relocating the little guy.. It hurts, you get over it.