Dutchess: Nearest fire company not always called out

[moggie6 54]

Here is a link to an interesting letter to the editor of the Poughkeepsie Journal.

http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/article...06/1004/OPINION

I find it interesting that someone is getting published for some of the corruption that plagues this county when it comes to fire response. I wish the Journal could review all the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th dispatches that happen throughout Dutchess County and the redudancy of fire equipment.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

They could look into it all they want...what good do you honestly think it would do brother? Look what happened when the articles about the Long Island departments were printed. You'd think they committed worse then captial murder for that. Then depending on who writes it and then further ADVOCATES the improvement of the system county wide and the implementation of more career staff will suffer the anti-volunteer mantra thrown at them.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

Finally some one has the stones to say something. I may not live in Dutchess but there is no reason not to dispatch closest located apparatus, not favorites. Public safety comes first, end of story, anyone who thinks otherwise picked the wrong hobby/line of work.

Edited November 9, 2008 by bvfdjc316

[jack10562 414]

Sour grapes? perhaps...however, one must keep in mind the "closest" resource may not always necessarily be the best choice. So, how is that corrupt?

Similar response requests are probably more common than one might think...and Dutchess is not alone.

[spin_the_wheel 460]

The history between Newsday and the fire service on LI goes further back then the articles and why the fire service took it the way they did but thats another story. The only thing the articles did was call to the carpet the few dept.s/districts that were out of line with the spending, and changes were made. Fire districts (statewide) are held to more scrutiny with spending and taxpayers are now made aware or have the means to see what is going on better then they had before the articles. No one disputes the fact that there were some districts that went way out of bounds, but all these "perks" really had no affect on the average backstep firefighter. The fact is for most of LI the bang for the buck in fire protection is excellent. The tax money being paid is nothing compared to the rest of your tax bill. People in my community support us. As far as response, a few dept.s have automatic mutual aide when one dept.s station may be closer then the dept. getting alerted for that particular alarm, and I dont know of any dept. with a mutual aide plan that has a dept. traveling through 1 or 2 other districts that have not already been alerted mutual aide, unless it is a special unit request.

[spin_the_wheel 460]

Sour grapes? perhaps...however, one must keep in mind the "closest" resource may not always necessarily be the best choice. So, how is that corrupt?

Similar response requests are probably more common than one might think...and Dutchess is not alone.

Bingo....is'nt there some Westchester paid dept.s that skip the closest volunteer Depts to go to the next paid dept.? I'm sure they have their reasons for doing this, is that corrupt? I dont think so.

Edited November 9, 2008 by spin_the_wheel

[JetPhoto 626]

Sour grapes? perhaps...however, one must keep in mind the "closest" resource may not always necessarily be the best choice. So, how is that corrupt?

I have seen a structure fire where the actual building was exactly 20' away from the fire district of another department. The FD needed a tanker to the scene (the neighboring dept. also had a tanker) but the chief called a tanker from another dept. just because he doesn't like the neighboring dept. Access to the fire required going through the neighbors dept. district. The thing is that the neighbors dept. coverage are is not that big so response time would be closer.

BUT THAT'S POLITICS FOR YA!

[Guest EFFP411]

I do Know in some cases, sour grapes and favorites have something to do with how Mutual Aid is requested. I also know however, that from the county perspective, with major incidents, they will "spread the love" so to speak, and skip over districts to spread the apparatus out more as not to strip all the surrounding areas of resources. Look at the hudson River Psychiatric Center fire. When they started making manpower calls, If you listen closely to the dispatch, they started asking for a small number of apparatus/manpower from departments quite far away from PK... What's the point of stripping all the neighboring departments of manpower and rigs when there are plenty of other avenues to take???

Edited November 9, 2008 by EFFP411

[NWFDMedic 58]

I think there are a few differences to look at here. For instance, I am a member of New Windsor FD. For the majority of our district in an "active fire" situation, we have some response from the City of Newburgh FD because they are manned in quarters, quick to respond, etc. etc. However, if we're pulling a standby assignment, we generally won't use the City because we know the stresses it can put on their coverage area. Besides, if we get a second incident, they are still there, right around the corner to assist the standby department we have brought in from further away.

Sometimes the county control centers use some discretion when it becomes a "all hands and more incident". In Orange and Dutchess, I've heard units moved to a station to cover an area that may not be just that district. Even in a more extended fire situation, bringing manpower to the scene from further departments may not be a bad idea if you have gone to an exterior or save exposure method of attack.

My department's feeling for an incident that is still immediately dangerous to life and property (or basically where we're operating inside or fighting to prevent further fire loss) is that we'd rather have the closest units respond, regardless of the uniform or color of the trucks. When that situation no longer exists, using your head to use all resources available to cover the entire affected area seems to make sense to me.

[Danger 160]

I couldn't agree more. I've driven 15 minutes in an ambulance to a call that was 3 minutes from a neighboring firehouse. However there are some really egregious examples I know of that of course we can't mention (even among fellow firefighters) because then we'd offend that chief. Kudos to the departments who do the right thing. For example Arlington will call Poughkeepsie Ladder 2 before our own 45 if it's near Main Street. And we dual dispatch with Fairview for Creek Rd., PV for Bower Rd., etc.

Jim I think I know the fire you're talking about and that dept is one of the big offenders

[lad12derff 283]

Bingo....is'nt there some Westchester paid dept.s that skip the closest volunteer Depts to go to the next paid dept.? I'm sure they have their reasons for doing this, is that corrupt? I dont think so.

Why would we call in a volunteer dept when the paid dept will respond much quicker. Please do not lump us into this problem we have enough of our own to worry about.

[Guest EFFP411]

Why would we call in a volunteer dept when the paid dept will respond much quicker. Please do not lump us into this problem we have enough of our own to worry about.

I think that was a poor choice of wording there friend....

[TAPSJ 30]

No offense, but it is the officer incharge to make the call on where the mutial aid comes from. Some do it because they dont like thier neighbors, some do it because they dont want to strip the entire area. I live in the New Hackensack Fire District, I feel East Fishkill Staion 3 is much closer, but that is the way the lines are. New Hackensack and Town Of Wappingers do one hell of a job and if you know me they have been to my house numerous times for me and my daughters. Also, the brush fire earlier this year on the other side of the river, they were calling fire departments from farther out so they didnt strip the area. So all I can say is we make the decissions quickly, some may not be right, others might be right. We join the Fire/EMS/Police for a reason to serve the people and protect them. So lets do that the best we can 24/7 paid or not. I am in it because I love what I do and I make my family and friends proud. So if we have to call mutial aid, do it no matter where it is from, because it is better to have it thier or coming in, then not have it at all.

Thomas

[x129K 1,393]

It is my belief, and from what I have seen from MOST of Dutchess - that an IC should just ask for what they require, a generic request- ie; "Give me 2 additonal engines and a ladder.........". From there on - it should be the responsibility of the dispatch center to send the closest, appropriate equipment.

Edited November 10, 2008 by x129K

[PVFD233 68]

It is my belief, and from what I have seen from MOST of Dutchess - that an IC should just ask for what they require, a generic request- ie; "Give me 2 additonal engines and a ladder.........". From there on - it should be the responsibility of the dispatch center to send the closest, appropriate equipment.

I thought that was the way it was suppose to be too. Its in the 911 CAD system for a reason.

Plus those dispatchers do so much to begin with.....

[tdc202 0]

I think it's about time something got said in Dutchess about what's going on. I am not making a paid vs vollie thing out of this but if my house is on fire I wanty the closest unit there. I know the gut who wrote that letter and believe me when I say it isn't sour grapes on his end. I think he is just tired of seeing the political BS happening in Dutchess and other counties. Jim I am pretty sure I know the Fire your talking about and what happened was wrong and maybe it should have been addressed at the Chief's Council meeting. Just my 2 cents

[JBE 328]

The letter writer makes a good point. (quote)It is my belief, and from what I have seen from MOST of Dutchess - that an IC should just ask for what they require, a generic request- ie; "Give me 2 additonal engines and a ladder.........". From there on - it should be the responsibility of the dispatch center to send the closest, appropriate equipment.

Amen to that. Put the bs politics aside, and let's get the job done.

[notch138 7]

The letter writer makes a good point. (quote)It is my belief, and from what I have seen from MOST of Dutchess - that an IC should just ask for what they require, a generic request- ie; "Give me 2 additonal engines and a ladder.........". From there on - it should be the responsibility of the dispatch center to send the closest, appropriate equipment. (quote) Amen to that. Put the bs politics aside, and let's get the job done.

There are times that the IC does ask for just an engine or a ladder and county does there thing, however look at Hughsonville, they have Rombout at automatic MA with there ladder for any thing that sounds like a possible structure fire and things of that nature (which I have to problem with) but others are wondering why Rombout gets called all the time when the Village of Wappingers and New Hamburg (at the time) both have a ladder and they boarder each other. I think that splitting the district would be more feasible.

[moggie6 54]

I couldn't agree more with your statement. We had the honor of having one of the local politicans in the firehouse when a neighboring fire dept had a fire. He was shocked that practices like the one you just described were happening.

[markmets415 524]

Well a well organized dept. should have thier first second and third alarms already in the CADS. We cannot help ifsome of that equipment is o/o/s, if so then a proper replacement will be made by the dispatch center. If a Chief just has a generic assignment to cover the entire district well then they should not be a fire chief.

Edited November 10, 2008 by markmets415

[Guest]

well said Mark

[Beekman 5]

Hughsonville- Maybe because New Hamburg sold their Tower before the new one arrived and Wappingers was out of service mechanical?

Chiefs Council- Those departments don't show up at Chief's Council.

Jimmy- you know better than to comment about this issue. I have a crew that watched a residential AFA go third dispatch and no equipment ever responded and it's in a career department's backyard but they were never called.

The CADS ares set up by the Chiefs. The dispatchers use their discretion when something isn't addressed by the CAD or a unit assigned to that alarm is OOS.

[notch138 7]

Hughsonville- Maybe because New Hamburg sold their Tower before the new one arrived and Wappingers was out of service mechanical?

Chiefs Council- Those departments don't show up at Chief's Council.

Jimmy- you know better than to comment about this issue. I have a crew that watched a residential AFA go third dispatch and no equipment ever responded and it's in a career department's backyard but they were never called.

The CADS ares set up by the Chiefs. The dispatchers use their discretion when something isn't addressed by the CAD or a unit assigned to that alarm is OOS.

Beekman: just so you know the hughsonville agreement has been going on even before Wappingers and New Hamburg lost there ladders

[markmets415 524]

A sample as to what I was talking about (generic assignment).

Recently a district was down an engine, the Chief made a generic assignment to replace this engine, and when the dept was dispatch for an AFA the replacement engine would have to travel about 8 miles and was dispatched, even though another dept was less than 2 miles away from the incident scene. Makes no sense . Please take the time to setup the assignment so that the citizens are provided the most efficient reponse possible, it's not rocket science!!!!!!

Edited November 15, 2008 by markmets415

[Beekman 5]

And if you look at Rombout and Hughsonville, they are both strong departments in responding very quickly WITH crews.

I asked a mutual aid department to take my BLS ambulance off their assignments and add my ALS ambulance because more times than not the BLS ambulance wouldn't be able to respond and it would just be wasting their time to tone it out and discover that.

[Guest]

A sample as to what I was talking about (generic assignment).

Recently a district was down an engine, the Chief made a generic assignment to replace this engine, and when the dept was dispatch for an AFA the replacement engine would have to travel about 8 miles and was dispatched, even though another dept was less than 2 miles away from the incident scene. Makes no sense . Please take the time to setup the assignment so that the citizens are provided the most efficient reponse possible, it's not rocket science!!!!!!

I believe i know what call you are talking about

[FFD941 20]

It is my belief, and from what I have seen from MOST of Dutchess - that an IC should just ask for what they require, a generic request- ie; "Give me 2 additonal engines and a ladder.........". From there on - it should be the responsibility of the dispatch center to send the closest, appropriate equipment.

Dan I couldn't of said it any better

[Guest]

but that should only be used after they ask for a 2nd alarm or 3rd alarm what ever is set up no 2 tankers here and then i need 2 more and oh i need a truck now

[markmets415 524]

I believe i know what call you are talking about

Yes you do; we talked about while on our joy ride on 45 the other day, didn't want to name the dept here on an open forum.

[Guest]

I dont blame youand i would not mention it either