Merger of Westchester police, emergency services put in doubt

[EJS1810 7]

Both Putnam and Dutchess (and I'm sure other counties) have combined dispatch centers. They seem to do pretty well. As with everything, there will of course be growning pains, but IMHO, it's a step in the right direction. Now if only we could centralize the PSAPs and have every emergency unit in the county dispatched from the same center like in Dutchess (well, almost).

I work for Putnam, we only do 911 Police calls. I used to work @ PCSD where we did both 911 and regular police work. There is a major diference. As for centralizing PSAP's in Westchester, it will be easier for Playland to make a profit

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Could merge PSAP's. Sure..and we could have response standards for ambulances. A uniformed mutual aid dispatching protocol for ems, minimum apparatus staffing requirements and the list could go on and on. This will not change 911 in the county anytime soon.

I'm just wondering however where are the volunteer fire service lobbying organizations? Several of you have seemed to hit the nail on the head with the terminology in the report instead of reading with rose colored glasses and thinking and hoping of what might be or could be. Read the part on the hazmat team, and I want to point out, it doesn't affect me either way. If anything I'll see better response times. But it mentions that the HMRT volunteers will "support" the DPS Hazardous Devices Unit. I'm not going to get into a debate with anyone, however if DPS had professional firefighters in it and that language was used there'd be volunteers going ape poopie over it.

I'm all in favor of change. But I'm also going to say in my experience where I've been part of similar mergers or systems, the non law enforcement side always lost the most. Budget, staffing etc. Otherwise I have to sit and wait to see what happens. b

[efdcapt115 1,511]

With regard to the reorganization if it goes through as planned with DPS taking on the primary response functions of WCHMRT, any opinions out there as to whether this could lead to better cooperation/coordination between Westchester County HazMat, Yonkers F.D. HazMat, and the Special Ops Squads?

[jack10562 414]

If I'm not mistaken, civilian dispatchers for DPS and 60 Control are all represented by CSEA and are given the same County entrance exam. Where they work when hired is based on the available position openings.

There should be no reason why these employees could not be cross-trained to handle either function, if anything, that way open shifts might be filled more easily from a larger pool of operators.

In my opinion there would be little gained by merging these dispatch operations other than perhaps eliminating administrative/supervisory positions of those that do not sit in "the room" and perform daily dispatch duties.

The savings from that alone simply does not justify building a joint communications facility.

[Lucifer 6]

A meeting was held at the DES tonight with Fire/ EMS and other invited stakeholders and County Executive Astorino. A presentation was made proposing the merger of DES into DPS. The Westchester Fire Advisory Board went on record and submitted a letter in opposition to the abolition of the DES and requested a careful look at alternative ways to save tax payer money by exploring ways to consolidate WC agencies and still preserve the existance of DES. All affected Fire and EMS agencies are urged to support this position and urge their local legislators to explore alternative proposals/solutions in order to preserve the existance of DES and still consolidate some County services to reduce the budget. The Fire/EMS community and the citizens of this County deserve no less.

Edited August 24, 2010 by Lucifer

[khas143 13]

A meeting was held at the DES tonight with Fire/ EMS and other invited stakeholders and County Executive Astorino. A presentation was made proposing the merger of DES into DPS. The Westchester Fire Advisory Board went on record and submitted a letter in opposition to the abolition of the DES and requested a careful look at alternative ways to save tax payer money by exploring ways to consolidate WC agencies and still preserve the existance of DES. All affected Fire and EMS agencies are urged to support this position and urge their local legislators to explore alternative proposals/solutions in order to preserve the existance of DES and still consolidate some County services to reduce the budget. The Fire/EMS community and the citizens of this County deserve no less.

Just curious but could you post this letter so that we all know what the Fire Advisory Board's rationale regarding their opposition to this merger is.

[Lucifer 6]

Just curious but could you post this letter so that we all know what the Fire Advisory Board's rationale regarding their opposition to this merger is.

I do not have it. The general premise is lets not rush to abolish the DES, Lets explore alternative possibilities that can decrease the overall County budget while still preserving the agency that has well served the various Fire/EMS agencies and not become part of a larger bureauracy that may have a different agenda/priorities.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

A meeting was held at the DES tonight with Fire/ EMS and other invited stakeholders and County Executive Astorino. A presentation was made proposing the merger of DES into DPS. The Westchester Fire Advisory Board went on record and submitted a letter in opposition to the abolition of the DES and requested a careful look at alternative ways to save tax payer money by exploring ways to consolidate WC agencies and still preserve the existance of DES. All affected Fire and EMS agencies are urged to support this position and urge their local legislators to explore alternative proposals/solutions in order to preserve the existance of DES and still consolidate some County services to reduce the budget. The Fire/EMS community and the citizens of this County deserve no less.

Interesting. I'm wondering; Commissioner Sutton's name is on the front page of the proposal. Wouldn't he consult with the Westchester Fire Advisory Board before he would sign off on the proposal? If he did consult with the WFAB, how could he sign off on a document he must have known would be opposed by it? That just isn't logical is it?

[Guest]

Interesting. I'm wondering; Commissioner Sutton's name is on the front page of the proposal. Wouldn't he consult with the Westchester Fire Advisory Board before he would sign off on the proposal? If he did consult with the WFAB, how could he sign off on a document he must have known would be opposed by it? That just isn't logical is it?

Let's be honest here. Sutton has been with DES for what, 10 or so years? He has no fire background and I would be willing to bet that he still has no idea how the fire service operates.

DES has made some poor choices over the years regarding their commissioners and deputy commissioners. Pat Kelly was a joke, Sutton may know EMS and even OEM, but he is clueless about the fire service. John Jackson was one of the more intelligent choices ever made, and hopefully John Cullen will be a strong force for the fire service in Westchester.

Merger or Takeover - it doesn't matter. The two agencies both provide a good service, but they both lack any true territory or control unless it's on county property. I can't wait to see if this happens, how well a DPS run HMT would function with, say, the Yonkers FD. Would they get along or would the DPS HMT be inclined to work more with YPD's ESU? Hmmmm......

[Guest alsfirefighter]

If you were in a job in which you were appointed by the executive of the whole show and you had an "advisory" board...what would you do...sign or not sign?

I'm surprised more of you are not chiming in. Especially those of you on the EMS side that are on the EMS should be its own entity and not fire based yada yada yada kicks. Again I'm all for change, but I also have seen what happens when these big conglomerates of public safety are made and what can happen in priorities of services and "duplication." Lets face it..the PD side of the house is and will be alot stronger then the fire/ems/oem side and who's at the top of the mountain on this one?

Bottom line is..it doesn't overly effect me from what I've seen yet. I'm still gonna work when I do. Do it the best I can for whatever boss I have and Commissioner Cullen is a great advocate for the fire service in his position. I've been fortunate to know him for years and I enjoy working for him. But again..some of you need to look very closely at the choice of words used in the report in regard to the DES functions and teams.

[Guest feraldan]

I'll bite.

I am skeptical about the merger of the DPS HDU and DES HMRT. It appears (although it is vague) that the volunteers would play 2nd fiddle to the on-duty HDU officers who would respond in first. By and large, the type of calls most frequently responded to by the HMRT are not criminal or energetic in nature but accidental spills and leaks. The "white powder" or bottle-bomb call is the exception.

The HMRT, while volunteer for emergency response, contains a large collection of industry professionals (chemists, technicians, etc) who deal daily with or have special knowledge of the more likely/more frequent "spill and leak" calls. As a rough comparison, its as if you had someone who volunteered as an EMT but professionally worked as an MD. That's a serious resource that extends beyond its immediate face value. Some of those folks eat, sleep and breathe HAZMAT (figuratively speaking of course.) In this respect, a brief 40 hour class does not make a HAZMAT technician but the collection of knowledge and real life experiences which should not be easily discounted.

While on paper the pitch seems to indicate that the HDU and HMRT perform the same functions, the reality is probably better stated as this: some of their functions may border or overlap, but the focuses are really quite different.

You have two groups of people coming from very different focuses with no specifically outlined plan on how to integrate them. How would command functions work between the two groups? Who is really in charge at the ground level? The proposal is way too vague in this area and it assumes that the groups would readily combine without much effort, footwork or discussion.

From a dollars and cents standpoint, you would still need to maintain much of the HAZMAT equipment already in place with the HMRT. The workforce is basically free. Where is the big financial saving by merging the two versus placing them both as separate entities under the "Special Operations" umbrella?

I'm quite curious how something like this would actually play out and whether there is a precedent for it. The proposal just seems to raise a lot of questions without immediate answers.

[firebuff860 54]

The haz mat stuff is the least of my concern, the County PD could take that over today as far as I am concerned. Do you need 2-3 pages to get your team out? Good luck County PD. The concern I have as a FF is that we are going to lose share of voice within County Govt as the man in charge is a cop, and he by nature will think more like a cop than a FF. For over the past 10 years the County has done an unbelievable job with training and building up the FTC, and I feel that we would lose this should this merge happen (along with 60-C).

I know the PO's on the site might not like my comments, but would they want a Fire Chief in charge of them??

I hope our fine elected officials can find some other way to trim a little fat from the budget.

[PEMO3 523]

OK here is the county's solution: You tube video link

[efdcapt115 1,511]

If you were in a job in which you were appointed by the executive of the whole show and you had an "advisory" board...what would you do...sign or not sign?

To me that's a simple question; I would do what is right for the fire service, what is right for EMS, if that was my Commission. But this same issue pops up when a chief of a department is asked his/her position regarding the department.

Some people say your hands are bound and your mouth is taped when you get to the top, because you have to answer to the politicians. That you can't "really say" what you want to say. I say that's bullshit.

A chief, or commissioner that is true to the job is going to go to bat for the troops, stand up and say/do what is right. That's what subordinates expect, and why so many are disillusioned when they see a boss being an a** kisser.

Not saying that's what happened here, don't know the details, don't know the commissioner. But if he's been there for ten years, he knows 60-Control is irreplaceable. The training center is vital for the entire county. As far as the WCHMRT, to my knowledge they have trouble getting out the door. That's a problem that has to be addressed.

There are so many assets within Westchester that could be called upon to solve the HMRT issue. Yonkers FD, The Special Ops Squads, NRFD, these people could easily cover southern Westchester.

That leaves northern Westchester, and if DPS has 32 techs and the rigs/gear/equipment to handle "Haz-Mat North" they should if that's the only resource available to solve the problem.

The...um....doctors that do haz-mat volunteering(is that how the previous poster put it?) can easily still show up 20 minutes late and get to work setting up decon. Not everybody has to be the hero in a level A suit. There's plenty enough to do on the scene of a major haz-mat, that everyone will be needed right?

[EJS1810 7]

To me that's a simple question; I would do what is right for the fire service, what is right for EMS, if that was my Commission. But this same issue pops up when a chief of a department is asked his/her position regarding the department.

Unfortunatly, "Commissioners" in this case are loyal to the political machine that feeds them and does what is needed to save themselves.

IMHO

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Not everybody has to be the hero in a level A suit.

Before somebody gets PO'ed about this comment, I mean it sincerely and with respect when I say a tech in a Level A suit is a hero. If you've been in one, you know what you're confronted with operating in one. It's tough duty, it's dangerous work, and going into CBRNE incidents is downright scary stuff. I have the utmost respect for Haz-Mat techs; just so there's no misunderstanding.

EJS1810: Unfortunatly, "Commissioners" in this case are loyal to the political machine that feeds them and does what is needed to save themselves.

IMHO

Chief, if you don't mind I'd like to ask what's your opinion regarding DPS expanding into WCHMRT response?

[Monty 35]

To me that's a simple question; I would do what is right for the fire service, what is right for EMS, if that was my Commission. But this same issue pops up when a chief of a department is asked his/her position regarding the department.

Some people say your hands are bound and your mouth is taped when you get to the top, because you have to answer to the politicians. That you can't "really say" what you want to say. I say that's bullshit.

A chief, or commissioner that is true to the job is going to go to bat for the troops, stand up and say/do what is right. That's what subordinates expect, and why so many are disillusioned when they see a boss being an a** kisser.

Not saying that's what happened here, don't know the details, don't know the commissioner. But if he's been there for ten years, he knows 60-Control is irreplaceable. The training center is vital for the entire county. As far as the WCHMRT, to my knowledge they have trouble getting out the door. That's a problem that has to be addressed.

Generally, it seems the difference is that a Chief is a lifetime employee, come up through the ranks, has the experience. A commissioner is a political appointee - and politics change over time.

There are so many assets within Westchester that could be called upon to solve the HMRT issue. Yonkers FD, The Special Ops Squads, NRFD, these people could easily cover southern Westchester.

That leaves northern Westchester, and if DPS has 32 techs and the rigs/gear/equipment to handle "Haz-Mat North" they should if that's the only resource available to solve the problem.

The...um....doctors that do haz-mat volunteering(is that how the previous poster put it?) can easily still show up 20 minutes late and get to work setting up decon. Not everybody has to be the hero in a level A suit. There's plenty enough to do on the scene of a major haz-mat, that everyone will be needed right?

One big thing here is talk of cost savings, however I don't see factored in overtime, backfill costs etc - whether YFD, WPFD or whoever does more mutual aid or the WCPD picks up the slack for additional calls and training.

Also, if DPS has 32 techs, how many are on duty at a time? Presumably, on average, about 8. That's a pretty small number, so again there is a delay in getting more people to the scene and additional costs or will they not backfill or call people in for overtime? Also, where are these officers coming from - presumably almost anywhere in the County.

I know in theory the responsbile party can be billed for Hazmat incidents - but what if it's only a suspected incident?

There's also question of Chain of Command - are we all going to play nice? Has anyone from DPS reached out to Fire/EMS? Is any hazmat call now a crime scene and PD are in charge? A chlorine spill at the local water plant? Or are PD going to be happy working under the local (volunteer?) Chief?

Just a couple of other things. Sharing of real estate does seem like a good idea - but why couldn't the DPS tactical village be incorporated in to the DES strip mall?

It's interesting there are no estimates of current day costs to relocate one or other dispatch centers compared to the mentioned savings in reduced supervisory staff.

My last thoughts are that it's interesting that in the press highlighting the fact that there will no reduction in headcount to the Police - however, in the document it only shows DES folk, uniformed and otherwise losing their positions. I hope that the Deputy Commssioner for Fire Services is a very persuasive person - he's going to be surrounded by LEO's above, and around looking to get the most of the budget dollars.

[gss131 212]

OK here is the county's solution: You tube video link

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Nice post Monty!

I have a question for Captain Nechis. Could you possibly give us a review, an overview, regarding the Special Ops Task Force? A general overview regarding how much has been invested in terms of federal grant money, local municipality commitment, numbers of Haz-Mat personnel, that kind of stuff?

I'm wondering where the Squads factor in with this proposal and the conversion of WCHMRT?

Thanks.

[JM15 386]

I think that overall Fire/EMS is going to become neglected by DPS and more priority given to "Police issues." DES has done a great job with training and special services and built up the level of services they can provide. To me this seems like a full 360 degree turn and will ultimately hurt the fire service and the public. In regards to the special op's teams run by DES, how can you save money by cutting volunteers and using overtime to pay and backfill for police to perform the same job?

[Guest feraldan]

The...um....doctors that do haz-mat volunteering(is that how the previous poster put it?) can easily still show up 20 minutes late and get to work setting up decon. Not everybody has to be the hero in a level A suit. There's plenty enough to do on the scene of a major haz-mat, that everyone will be needed right?

I think you missed the point.

It's not that everyone cannot be versatile or fill multiple roles or do whatever it takes to assist in an operation. It's to point out that many of the current HMRT guys are extremely knowledgeable and highly experienced with many years in industries directly relating to the incidents they most frequently encounter. The question was whether that would be swept aside or if the newly merged HMRT would have representation on a command level. Would that knowledge and experience be put to work? A resource like I described wouldn't necessarily be properly utilized on the entry team (in the proverbial "level A") but at the command post, evaluating the situation, providing feedback and guidance.

Not every scene is a major incident. Sometimes HMRT is contacted for consultation or environmental issues. If you have product X leaking and one of the HMRT volunteers has been an industrial chemist for 20 years with plenty of hands-on experience with product X, do you really want him cleaning up equipment?

Does the HDU currently have any chemists on staff? That's a serious question, not sarcastic. I don't know the answer. I'd just hate to see a lot of capable people wasted because they get pushed to the backrow on jobs where they could have a big impact.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

I think you missed the point.

It's not that everyone cannot be versatile or fill multiple roles or do whatever it takes to assist in an operation. It's to point out that many of the current HMRT guys are extremely knowledgeable and highly experienced with many years in industries directly relating to the incidents they most frequently encounter. The question was whether that would be swept aside or if the newly merged HMRT would have representation on a command level. Would that knowledge and experience be put to work? A resource like I described wouldn't necessarily be properly utilized on the entry team (in the proverbial "level A") but at the command post, evaluating the situation, providing feedback and guidance.

Not every scene is a major incident. Sometimes HMRT is contacted for consultation or environmental issues. If you have product X leaking and one of the HMRT volunteers has been an industrial chemist for 20 years with plenty of hands-on experience with product X, do you really want him cleaning up equipment?

Does the HDU currently have any chemists on staff? That's a serious question, not sarcastic. I don't know the answer. I'd just hate to see a lot of capable people wasted because they get pushed to the backrow on jobs where they could have a big impact.

Fair enough, and you raised some really good points. Like ALS said and I agree, I'm surprised at how little reaction is being expressed here. Kudos for stepping up and posting your opinion.

What confuses me most about the issue, the proposal, the way it's worded, it virtually ignores the other assets within the county that can be brought to bear. Assets that have been built up with federal grant money, hundreds, combined thousands(?) of hours of training. I keep asking about the SWSOTF because I thought that additional Haz Mat capability was being structured into the County for a purpose; where does this reorganization plan address those assets, that capability?

I still believe the main issue regarding WCHMRT is their ability or lack thereof to respond in a timely manner? For something as important as Haz-Mat response, with a nuke plant, vital infrastructure of the greater NY area, Westchester needs more than what they have right now, would you agree?

The county sure isn't about to expand the DES Haz-Mat we know that. But what about the existing departments within the county that have the capability to expand their coverage area? And where or how does the DPS/DES plan address the possibility of combined fire services in south Westchester? There was a good plan for tax dollar savings, proposed by the chiefs association. Where has that gone?

[Bnechis 3,961]

I have a question for Captain Nechis. Could you possibly give us a review, an overview, regarding the Special Ops Task Force? A general overview regarding how much has been invested in terms of federal grant money, local municipality commitment, numbers of Haz-Mat personnel, that kind of stuff?

I'm wondering where the Squads factor in with this proposal and the conversion of WCHMRT? Thanks.

The WSOTF System was designed to respond with either a Hazmat Unit or a Technical Rescue Unit. Both of which are coming out of YFD (but could include any other legitmate unit).

YFD Hazmat TF responds with a minimum of 15 HM Technicians plus any squads as assigned.

One of the reasons for the establishment of WSOTF is thru drill it was determined that at a major HM incident you need a minimum of 30 - 50 hazmat techs (particularly if multiple people need decon or during summer days when everyone in suits need rotation often).

The squads must have a minimum of 6 HM Techs (1 officer)

With 5 squads, that means the system has approzimatly 50 HM Techs ON-DUTY in fire stations or on rigs 24/7.

A squad can perform one hazmat/WMD functional task at a time.

- Entry – Recon (Detection)

- Backup

- Technical Decon

- Dress Out Support / Medical Monitoring

- HM Accountability, ICS & Research

We found that to actually perform proper and timely technical decon (for entry team) it requires 12 members (2 squads). 1 sets up the technical decon while the other suits up to operate it. Then the set up team can suit up, which by that time the primary team needs relief. this way we can continue rotating decon for a number of hours.

Can either DES or the proposed DPS unit put this kind of manpower on scene in a timely manor and without OT?

[Bnechis 3,961]

A general overview regarding how much has been invested in terms of federal grant money, local municipality commitment, numbers of Haz-Mat personnel, that kind of stuff?

I'm wondering where the Squads factor in with this proposal and the conversion of WCHMRT? Thanks.

Hazmat Technician, 600 Firefighter (14,400 Hours)

NYS Level “A” Trailer Training, 200 Firefighters (3,200 Hours)

WMD Training 200 Fire Fighters (1,600 Hours)

Local In-Service Training, Dirt Bomb, Decon, Mark I, Chemical MCI, etc.

Functional Drills 250 Fire Fighters (2,000 Hours)

WMD Training 160 Fire Fighters (640 Hours)

Functional WMD HSEEP Exercise 75 Fire Fighters (600 Hours)

White Plains High School Gunman and WMD Release Exercise Squads 4, 5 & 6 plus County Hazmat, Law Enforcement and EMS

Mt. Vernon WMD Exercise Squads 1, 2 & 3 plus Yonkers Hazmat, Law Enforcement and EMS

Additional Training, approximatly 600 ff's:

Confined Space Technician

Basic Trench Rescue

Advanced Rope Rescue

Emergency Response to Terrorism – Tactical Considerations for Hazmat

NYS Advanced Hazmat Technician - 100 Fire Fighters

$200,000 Federal funding for equipment

$600,000 outside funding for training

40,000 man hours invested in training

$26m local community investment in personnel costs for training for WMD

Bus & NYS Level A Trailer

WMD, Hazmat & Collapse Training Props.

YFD Hazmat & Collapse Units

NRFD Collapse Unit

Greenville Collapse Trailer

The county use to use some of the grant money that they want to consolidate to support some of our equipment needs, such as mass decon shelters.

To my knowledge the squads do not factor in to this plan.

[Piranha174 37]

The WSOTF System was designed to respond with either a Hazmat Unit or a Technical Rescue Unit. Both of which are coming out of YFD (but could include any other legitmate unit).

YFD Hazmat TF responds with a minimum of 15 HM Technicians plus any squads as assigned.

One of the reasons for the establishment of WSOTF is thru drill it was determined that at a major HM incident you need a minimum of 30 - 50 hazmat techs (particularly if multiple people need decon or during summer days when everyone in suits need rotation often).

The squads must have a minimum of 6 HM Techs (1 officer)

With 5 squads, that means the system has approzimatly 50 HM Techs ON-DUTY in fire stations or on rigs 24/7.

A squad can perform one hazmat/WMD functional task at a time.

- Entry – Recon (Detection)

- Backup

- Technical Decon

- Dress Out Support / Medical Monitoring

- HM Accountability, ICS & Research

We found that to actually perform proper and timely technical decon (for entry team) it requires 12 members (2 squads). 1 sets up the technical decon while the other suits up to operate it. Then the set up team can suit up, which by that time the primary team needs relief. this way we can continue rotating decon for a number of hours.

Can either DES or the proposed DPS unit put this kind of manpower on scene in a timely manor and without OT?

Can the WSOTF put forth the above manpower in timely manor without backfill OT?

[Bnechis 3,961]

Can the WSOTF put forth the above manpower in timely manor without backfill OT?

As an example when the Tornado hit California Closets in Hawthorne. within 18-20 minutes we had 50+ technical rescue technicians on scene with 3 heavy rescue units, 3 collapse units, and assorted other units. No OT, no backfill needed. Thats how the system was designed. Now if a 2nd call of equal needs came in we would need to bring additional personnel in, but we actually have it.

Same issues apply to a hazmat incident

Edited August 27, 2010 by Bnechis

[Lucifer 6]

I think that overall Fire/EMS is going to become neglected by DPS and more priority given to "Police issues." DES has done a great job with training and special services and built up the level of services they can provide. To me this seems like a full 360 degree turn and will ultimately hurt the fire service and the public. In regards to the special op's teams run by DES, how can you save money by cutting volunteers and using overtime to pay and backfill for police to perform the same job?

Well said. Why are police agencies always trying to encroach on the duties of the fire and EMS guys? Self preservation? If there is a serious concern about saving money, which there is, combine with other law enforcement entities such as Corrections, DA, Probation. They all deal with "bad guys". Kinda like one stop shopping. Could prove to be a model for other Counties to duplicate. Oh, I forgot, sandbox issues...

[JJB531 652]

Well said. Why are police agencies always trying to encroach on the duties of the fire and EMS guys? Self preservation? If there is a serious concern about saving money, which there is, combine with other law enforcement entities such as Corrections, DA, Probation. They all deal with "bad guys". Kinda like one stop shopping. Could prove to be a model for other Counties to duplicate. Oh, I forgot, sandbox issues...

This proposal was brought forward by the County Executive as a cost saving measure, not the DPS Commissioner to encroach on Fire/EMS (unless there was some secret closed door meeting between the two in order to effect a takeover). How are police agencies always trying to encroach on the duties of fire and EMS guys? Where in Westchester County are police agencies attempting to take over the duties of a Firefighter?

I can remember a time in this county when a lot of Fire Departments didn't handle rescue work, especially on the County Parkways when the County Police had their own ESU unit equipped with a set of Jaws, since a lot of the local FD's were not equipped with extrication equipment. Same goes for the Town of Mount Pleasant PD, who was carrying a set of Jaws long before any of the local FD's were. Same in NYC, when ESU handled all of the rescue work because the FD was just way too busy handling Fires, whereas now you have the two agencies fighting over rescue work at times. So now when Fire Departments began to purchase rescue equipment and handle rescue and extrication work, were they encroaching on the local PD's and their "already established" handling of motor vehicle extrication?

What about Fire Departments who never handled EMS first response? Now that a majority of departments, especially paid departments, run some form of EMS first response, does that mean that they are encroaching on EMS?

So was this a "self-preservation" (as you put it) measure by Fire Departments since the number of fires have been reduced dramatically with the inception of building codes, sprinkler systems, etc.?

I personally have no problem with FD's handling rescue work, as I think in a lot of Westcheser communities, it's more feasible just based on manpower alone. The city of Yonkers may only have 6, 8, maybe 10 ESU cops working any given shift, whereas there may be 50 firefighters (these are not factual numbers as I honestly don't know what the City of Yonkers staffing levels are, but merely just a guess). And I personally don't have a problem with FD's performing EMS first response. Generally FD's do have better response times then EMS, and it's in the best interest of the patient to receive appropriate medical care in a timely manner, and most FD's do a good job of providing BLS level care until EMS arrives.

But to make a blanket statement that PD's are always trying to takeover FD/EMS is, IMHO, is not necessarily the truth, and looking at the history of emergency services, PD's could make the same blanket statements. Perhaps you could provide some factual information or better explain your position on PD's taking over the responsibilities of FD or EMS?

AS A DISCLAIMER, I AM NOT AGAINST FIRE DEPARTMENTS DOING THE WORK THAT THEY DO! I AM MERELY PLAYING DEVILS ADVOCATE HERE TO RESPOND TO LUCIFERS POST, SO DON'T JUMP DOWN MY THROAT!!!

Edited August 27, 2010 by JJB531

[PEMO3 523]

JJB531 I can see where you are coming from with your post and in many ways agree with it. A lot of what goes on is best described as job justification. I think what we are seeing here is clearly based soley on the document at hand. If you read it and not into it, it clearly states that DES will be folded INTO DPS not become part of DPS. This is not a merger but a carefully worded TAKEOVER. You can sugar coat it all you want, play the politically correct game, which if any one know me I do not play, and any other game there is, a take over is a take over and if not carefully thought out without input from everyone involve the entire system will suffer.

A lot of time has been spent on the just the HAZMAT area of the document but there is more to it than just HAZMAT in this document. Dispatch and coordination which 60 control does an excellent job doing on their end and DPS on theirs, the respective training units, the various command structures, the time spent to set up various specialty units within DES by many members at their own expense and time, and the thousands of years of combined years of experience in the volunteer sector will all suffer if the administration is allowed to paint the canvas with their broad "merger" brush.

[velcroMedic1987 330]

Chief, if you don't mind I'd like to ask what's your opinion regarding DPS expanding into WCHMRT response?

Hasn't the bomb squad been going to haz-mat calls and suspicous incidnets with the HMRT and the Health Department for years?

Takeover or merger? Who cares? The county can do whatever it wants with or without our approval.

Most of the proposal is for the administratoin. So what? Let them get rid of the big $$ people at the top. Keep DC Cullen as the County Fire Coordinator and we're no worse off then we have been under the Sutton administration.