Mayor Bloomberg to close 20 fire companies

[ny10570 745]

nycmedic you couldn't be more wrong. If they did start sending EMS off at the PD text we're going to have more units chasing bogus arrests. That will make our already slow response time slower. Currently we're averaging just over 7 minutes to 1-3 segments. Add fire to the mix and the response times drop to 4:28. This doesn't include call processing. Just dispatched to 84. Firefighters, due to their numbers can quickly dismount and get to the patient. By the time we gather all our crap and wait for the elevator (because stairs scare us) we've taken another minute or two longer than the engine. So since arrest, its been 90 seconds of call taking, 7 minutes of driving, and say...2 minutes till patient contact. Thats over 5 minutes of dying brain.

Then we have AHA's research saying it takes 6 or 8 (I can't remember which) to effectively run an arrest.

Then there's perks that aren't quantified. CFR's operate in their normal response area. We get yanked all over the city. How many times have you been unsure of the jobs location until you saw the giant red signal light sitting ifo? Then we have to get the patient out of the tiny apt packed with 20 years of crap and 5 floors up. How efficiently can you clear the hallways, get your crap, and get the patient out with just the 5 of you?

Drop the I don't need firefighters bull and do what's best for the patient. Multiple hands doing high quality cpr for two minute intervals. Fire will be facing cuts, but removing the CFR program will only cost more lives.

[JFLYNN 681]

I am going to get flack for saying this but stop the cfr program. It does not work. All it does is stop the clock. Have the firefighters go back to performing fire duties. If you take out the ems runs the call volume for the fire side will cut in half. Then you can close the 20 companies with out a problem. In all honesty the Mayor would rather spend billions on water front property and bike lanes instead essential services. These projects and entitlement programs should be cut first. But that will never happen.

I rarely stick my 2 cents in on NYC issues as I feel there are many on this board more qualified to comment than I am, however, I must chime in here...

I am shocked that you could make this statement. You are a paramedic working in NYC and you are stating that the FDNY CFR program does not work and should be stopped?

You also state that if the CFR program was stopped "20 fire companies could be closed without a problem".

What did you smoke before typing??????

[Dmcke 1]

E004 42 South St. Manhattan

E026 220 West 37th St. Manhattan

E046 460 Cross Bronx Expwy. Bronx

E060 341 East 143rd St. Bronx

E157 1573 Castleton Ave. Staten Island

E161 278 McClean Ave. Staten Island

E205 74 Middagh St. Brooklyn

E206 1201 Grand St. Brooklyn

E218 650 Hart St. Brooklyn

E220 530 11th St. Brooklyn

E233 25 Rockaway Ave. Brooklyn

E284 1157 79th St. Brooklyn

E294 101-20 Jamaica Ave. Queens

E306 40-18 214th Place Queens

E328 16-19 Central Ave. Queens

L008 14 North Moore St. Manhattan

L053 169 Schofield Ave. Bronx

L104 161 South 2nd St. Brooklyn

L128 33-51 Greenpoint Ave. Queens

L161 2929 W 8th St. Brooklyn

http://council.nyc.gov/html/home/home.shtml

Read more: http://fdnyrant.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=theend&action=display&thread=10451#ixzz1Mk5R0Dyh

[FFLieu 70]

Straight from the NY Post...

The Fire Department today finally released the list of 20 engine and ladder companies that are candidates for closing if the City Council can't come up with $55 million to fund them.

The list includes 8 companies in Brooklyn, 4 in Queens; 3 in Manhattan, 3 in The Bronx and 2 on Staten Island.

Some of the companies are making their second or third appearance after having been saved in previous budget skirmishes between Mayor Bloomberg and the Council in 2010 and 2009.

Topping the list of repeaters is Ladder Co. 53 on City Island, ranked by the FDNY as last in the city in both total runs and in medical runs.

Read more: http://www.nypost.co...O#ixzz1Mk4hKFfw

Real smart move there, Bloomy. Close the only fire house on City Island, where the next due company is some un-Godly amount of time away and has to cross two bridges in order to get there. So when people die, will you accept their blood on your hands? Of course not. Because you'll be sitting pretty on 79th Street or in Bermuda without a care in the world. Maybe if you stopped paying the overpaid consultants that you hired to run the city due to your ineptitude, all 20 fire houses would remain open and people wouldn't be murdered by your irresponsible actions.

Can we recall this nitwit? Or impeach him? Or try him for murder when people die as a result of his actions?

[JBE 328]

Did you notice how no one on his first alarm assignment was listed?? I have to admit, seeing everything on that list except for 4 Engine, 26 Engine, 8 Truck, 53 Truck, and 294 Engine surprised me. Now the fight begins.

[FDNY 10-75 640]

Well, if they get rid of the Governor's Island hammock program they can save $150 million.... The gross mismanagement disgusts me.

[FDNY 10-75 640]

Someone has a head on their shoulders: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/editorials/not_one_house_mike_sXSyudfHGBC3dq4tpzdK0N

[M' Ave 1,466]

do u think that fdny will use the surrounding volunteer depts to assist in large multi alarm fires

No. Remember, we're talking about 1800 firemen, 400 Capt's/Lt's, 50 chiefs and about 400 pieces of front line firefighting apparatus are on duty at any given time. We readily move units from boro to boro and such, to cover areas where companies are operating at large fires. Since the dept. covers, essentially, 5 counties, we're are own mutual aide.

It would take an unprecedented event to require resources from outside the city. This was the case on 9-11.

Edited May 19, 2011 by M' Ave

[x129K 1,393]

And I for one, hope you never see it again.

[JBE 328]

There was a plan for mutual aid coming in, but there had to be a certain set of circumstances for it to happen. Percentages of units had to drop below a certain number citywide, Fallback was already implemented. I don't think with the proposed cuts, that levels of protection could drop to a point that we would need M/A. I think it was just be at a point we were at Fallback for an extended period of time.

[rockl3 1]

don't u think that is in in the back of city officials minds looks at all the volunter depts that surround nyc and all their equiptment. i have seen it up here in upstate

[M' Ave 1,466]

don't u think that is in in the back of city officials minds looks at all the volunter depts that surround nyc and all their equiptment. i have seen it up here in upstate

No, I don't. Equipment doesn't put fires out or drag people out of a burning home. Manpower does and most career fire departments are short changed and manpower is always an issue on the volunteer side.

Edited May 19, 2011 by M' Ave

[x129K 1,393]

No, I don't. Equipment doesn't put fires out or drag people out of a burning home. Manpower does and most career fire departments are short changed and manpower is always an issue on the volunteer side.

As the late Andy Fredericks said, "The FDNY's most effective suppression method? We send hundreds of guys and stomp the fire out!"

[grumpyff 1,159]

I bet dollars to donuts that most of the Westchester departments still do not have the adapters necessary to use the FDNY threads of hydrants. What of communications?

Who is really going to respond. Yonkers and , New Rochelle., but they have their own cities to worry about, Mt Vernon who needs mutual aid for a lot of their own jobs, or all the same combo departments? The volunteers?? This is an unknown as to what you will get both in terms of numbers and experience. Its one thing for a 9/11 type incident, but on a regular basis I don't think it will work.

[JJB531 652]

don't u think that is in in the back of city officials minds looks at all the volunter depts that surround nyc and all their equiptment. i have seen it up here in upstate

I think you have a better chance of seeing FDNY allowing NYPD ESU to take on fire suppression activities before you see them call in a single volley department from Westchester or NJ. (obviously a sarcastic statement... In other words there's no way FDNY would turn to volleys unless completely, absolutely necessary)

Edited May 20, 2011 by JJB531

[FireMedic049 597]

if the city gets what it wants with the 20 companies how many jobs in that?

I'm pretty sure I read that they have enough vacancies that there would be no layoffs.

[M' Ave 1,466]

if the city gets what it wants with the 20 companies how many jobs in that?

We are WAY under headcount, so there will be no layoffs. However, 20 companyies is 60 LT's and 20 Capt's who will be at the top of the list looking for new homes. As for firemen, it depends on how full each company's roster is. I'd bet a lot of them are low, like 14-18 guys per company. Without the 5th man, engine's need 19 for a "full" roster.

This is all hypothetical. 20 Co's aren't getting closed. I wouldn't be surprised if it's "0", but it could be somewhere between 5-8.

[rockl3 1]

does the 5thman include the officer?

[JBE 328]

No. An Engine company is an officer and 5 firefighters. The Engine Chauffer, or MPO, Nozzle, back up, control(to keep the line from kinking), and door(obvious). All the engine companies in the city lost the 5th man. As far as mutual aid, it depends on where it's going, and where it's coming from. We do have one thing that I remember from the 11th, and that was teaming out of city units with FDNY units, and they went out together. Adapters and fittings can be made available, I know we have them. But that's another story for another time. I'm with M on this. I don't think the Mayor is going to get 20 companies. And honestly, this crap of throwing out units and threatening to close companies every year is getting a little ridiculous. I would be surprised if he got nothing. I think there's going to be a compromise where there will be a few lost, which is a more realistic view. At the same time, like I have said before, the Mayor wants 20, he gets 4 or 5. This way,and I said it before, Cassano can turn to the troops and say, I saved 15 fire companies.

[Monty 35]

I think you have a better chance of seeing FDNY allowing NYPD ESU to take on fire suppression activities before you see them call in a single volley department from Westchester or NJ. (obviously a sarcastic statement... In other words there's no way FDNY would turn to volleys unless completely, absolutely necessary)

I agree with that mostly - I'm sure you'd see career from Westchester and NJ before volunteer - but how about Long Island?

[spin_the_wheel 460]

And I for one, hope you never see it again.

Amen to that Brother.

[spin_the_wheel 460]

I bet dollars to donuts that most of the Westchester departments still do not have the adapters necessary to use the FDNY threads of hydrants. What of communications?

Who is really going to respond. Yonkers and , New Rochelle., but they have their own cities to worry about, Mt Vernon who needs mutual aid for a lot of their own jobs, or all the same combo departments? The volunteers?? This is an unknown as to what you will get both in terms of numbers and experience. Its one thing for a 9/11 type incident, but on a regular basis I don't think it will work.

Nassau County has a detailed written mutual aid plan in place to cover Queens and Brooklyn. Units actually do a relocation drill 1 or 2 times a year. The selected Nassau units go in and drill with the companies they would relocate with. They drill and have lunch with them, its worked out pretty well. BUT like was stated it would take a horrible event on the scale like 9-11 to see this happen real time. I hope I nver see it.

Edited May 20, 2011 by spin_the_wheel

[Bnechis 3,961]

Nassau County has a detailed written mutual aid plan in place to cover Queens and Brooklyn. Units actually do a relocation drill 1 or 2 times a year. The selected Nassau units go in and drill with the companies they would relocate with. They drill and have lunch with them, its worked out pretty well. BUT like was stated it would take a horrible event on the scale like 9-11 to see this happen real time. I hope I nver see it.

Same for the career depts in Westchester. We meet every month or two and have worked most issues out.

[ny10570 745]

Bloomy has been after the FD since he took office. Initially looking for jobs like park maintenance or other jobs they could tackle in the overnight. After public outcry shelved that one he began his crusade to close companies and initially succeeded. Since then miraculously for the past three years the insurmountable final chunk of the budget has been 20 companies. Not 15 or 21 as finances change from year to year, but always 20. This has nothing to do with mutual aid, and everything to do with an agency that Bloomy doesn't see the benefit to.

[huzzie59 75]

All this talk about closing company's leads me to ask those that would know....Are there any areas of the city that are in need of additional coverage/units?

Any areas that have poor coverage?

Constant backfilling?

[Mac8146 61]

The borough of Staten Island could use 3 more engines and 2 ladders plus a dedicated squad, however the powers that be seem to think it is ok to close 2 engines. Listen to the staten island frequency and hear brooklyn units coming into borough on any 10-75 or higher to cover the companies working.The department could do a little changing of units to cover these areas by moving companies around to fill those needs in lieu of closings. Parts of queens could probably use more units to cover large areas.

[ny10570 745]

Cuts Averted

Its just a small blerb as part of a larger story on the teachers deal, but apparently the companies are miraculously safe again.

"Also spared the falling budget ax were 20 fire companies that Bloomberg had marked for closure.

Fire Commissioner Salvatore Cassano had said that closing those companies would slow emergency responses around the city, endangering lives.

It's the third year in a row that City Council has rescued the fire companies from the budget knife after Bloomberg proposed shutting them."

[M' Ave 1,466]

Cuts Averted

Yeah...for year #3. I wonder if we can go for year #4? Sadly, I see that on the horizon and it'll be up to the Unions and the City Council to cobble together the money again.

One of the Bronx engines that was on the chopping block was our neighboring company. They are no camp and had they been shuttered by this short sighted mayor, it would have put a lot of strain on the community, us and the other surrounding engines. This, I'm sure, is the story for every single one of those 20 companies and this victory is one for city residents and city firemen alike. These cuts would have lowered the average % of available units and led to longer response times and a dramatic increase in the loss of life and property.

I can only hope we don't have to jump through these hoops again in 11 months......

[ny10570 745]

Sorry, but Bloomy has a bug up his kiester for the FD. Shockingly, they're going to come up 20 companies worth of funding short again. He's always been after more productivity, going as far as proposing to have firefighters cutting grass and sweeping streets. He got his 6 companies in 2003 and if I remember correctly was after closings as early as 2002. He still has the elimination of the 5th man and the dept is well over a year from adding any new members to the ranks so staffing shortages are going to continue to be rampant.

[goon16 155]

Yeah...for year #3. I wonder if we can go for year #4? Sadly, I see that on the horizon and it'll be up to the Unions and the City Council to cobble together the money again.

One of the Bronx engines that was on the chopping block was our neighboring company. They are no camp and had they been shuttered by this short sighted mayor, it would have put a lot of strain on the community, us and the other surrounding engines. This, I'm sure, is the story for every single one of those 20 companies and this victory is one for city residents and city firemen alike. These cuts would have lowered the average % of available units and led to longer response times and a dramatic increase in the loss of life and property.

I can only hope we don't have to jump through these hoops again in 11 months......

46 or 60?....... and there would be no way that esu would ever be allowed to do fire supression.. it is already a battle on mva extracations and putting divers in the water. If you do that you would have duplication of services and someone would lose there job. ESU was formed during the war years i believe to help with some services for the fire department i not to sure on that someone can correct me if im wrong