Clocking POV and Apparatus Response Speeds

[x635 4,066]

Recently, I was speaking with a Chief about a new initiave he's taking. He is concerned about Volunteers getting to the Staion and apparatus responding above the speed limit. There are too many volunteers getting killed responding to a scene or even the firehouse.

He tucks himself away in the primary response route, and takes the speed and safe driving of his members, from their POV to the Firehouse, and from the Firehouse to the scene.

Since he's not a certified Peace Officer, he can't give tickets, nor does he want to. Instead, he'll be posting a "Wall Of Shame" in his firehouse, as well as giving appropriate discipline.

*I can not say who or which department, as not to comprimise the operation.

[firedude 985]

He tucks himself away in the primary response route, and takes the speed and safe driving of his members, from their POV to the Firehouse, and from the Firehouse to the scene.

Is this legal?

[INIT915 1,119]

Is this legal?

If he is just making observations in plain view, it is legal.

[mreis95 77]

So instead of responding to someone calling for help this guy thinks it is a better idea to watch his people and emergency vehicles (which are legally allowed to speed within reason). I agree that people do drive faster than the limit. Why doesn't he just call the cops becuase he cannot do anything about it? I'm glad he is destroying morale.

[SECTMB 612]

At one time or another we have all been quilty of driving both our POV's and apparatus too fast. Well, most of us. Its something that can be self policed and I have found that to be an effective tool. I have chastised members of my company and been called out myself.

One memorable incident I recall, I pulled the engine onto the apron, traffic on our tree lined, two lane street (no shoulders) stopped for us to access, then from up the hill, around the bend comes one of our members, fast, too fast. I am waiting for the impact with the traffic that had stopped to allow us to proceed. Well he hits the brakes and does a 180 within the two lanes of the road and heads off in the opposite direction. I couldn't believe a catastrophe had been averted. His acknowledgement of his poor judgement earned him just a harsh rebuke.

Another time a probationary fireman chose to cross the double lines, pass the stopped vehicles and pull in front of the engine as it accessed the main street. That move earned him a suspension, one of many that eventually led to his dismissal from the company.

There are many more that could be related but the point is we can and should self police ourselves, and officers who witness careless or excessive speed driving can officially reprimand the offenders.

[antiquefirelt 994]

Since he's not a certified Peace Officer, he can't give tickets, nor does he want to. Instead, he'll be posting a "Wall Of Shame" in his firehouse, as well as giving appropriate discipline.

So much for "Discipline in private, praise in Public". Or does this Chief have no actual leadership/officer training?

[FFLieu 70]

This is fodder for the old "slippery slope." How long until the department is dispatched to jobs that mysteriously get cancelled after a couple of people blow by? How long until the department catches on and starts going slower than the posted speed limit, so as to spite the already spiteful Chief? Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't the "Chief" be going to the scene to establish command, or at the very least, to the house to staff a rig? Sounds like a d**k move to me.

Btw, if it doesn't have a formalized "ops plan," then it's not an "operation." At least that's what I was taught...

Edited April 16, 2012 by FFLieu

[10512 214]

How is he determining speed? Is he running radar? Has he ever been trained in running radar or estimating speeds? My assumption would be he is not qualified nor certified.

If an untrained official ran radar on me and posted the results in a "negative" manner for all to see, I would take a copy of the posting and go find a ligatious lawyer and see what he says. This is wrong on several levels.

There is training and instruction, and then there is overstepping bounds.

Edited April 16, 2012 by 10512

[x129K 1,393]

One of the worst ideas I have ever heard.....he oughta be embarassed!

Go to the frigging call Chief! Let the cops be cops!

[firebuff08 29]

Since the Chief is not presenting the radar readings as evidence in a court of law, there is no reason for him to be certified. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to operate a radar gun. I suspect the problem people he is after are the wackers with blue lights in the grill, on the dash and on the roof. Maybe discipline for anyone with more than a single blue light on the dash would be sufficient to solve the problem! My guess also would be that some of those who are protesting so much in this thread are a problem in their own departments.

The Chief should be lauded for addressing what is a serious problem nationally.

[FFLieu 70]

My guess also would be that some of those who are protesting so much in this thread are a problem in their own departments.

Speak for yourself, pal. FYI, I live around the corner from my fire house and I generally walk down the hill to go a job. Don't paint us all with the same brush, lest you'd like to be painted, too. I'd venture a guess that youre house isn't made of glass, no?

[gamewell45 258]

Recently, I was speaking with a Chief about a new initiave he's taking. He is concerned about Volunteers getting to the Staion and apparatus responding above the speed limit. There are too many volunteers getting killed responding to a scene or even the firehouse.

He tucks himself away in the primary response route, and takes the speed and safe driving of his members, from their POV to the Firehouse, and from the Firehouse to the scene.

Since he's not a certified Peace Officer, he can't give tickets, nor does he want to. Instead, he'll be posting a "Wall Of Shame" in his firehouse, as well as giving appropriate discipline.

*I can not say who or which department, as not to comprimise the operation.

I think the Chief ought to be worrying about doing his job and allow the police to do theirs.

[grumpyff 1,159]

If the Chief has gotten specific complaints about member(s) from the public, or other members of the department, He should pull those accused into his office. Give them a warning, and let them know they will be watched. As the chief is doing it now, how long is he delaying his response to alarms? What is the common complaint from the public "What took you so long to get here?" Knowing how litigious today's society is, I can just imagine the lawsuits from someone who feels response was delayed because the chief was out playing cop.

I would love to know how he determines if a member is speeding. Is he following (when was his speedometer calibrated), radar (again calibration), or just visual (what 30 mph versus 35 mph look like) Must be nice to not have worry about size up, number of responding apparatus with properly trained members, informing dispatch of scene conditions and orders for incoming apparatus, etc

[x4093k 654]

So is the chief meaning instead of going to help his community out, he is going to pull over and watch for people to go by? Or have someone else drive around and look?

Not a smart choice, especially if you want to keep your members in the department.

[10512 214]

Who owns the radar? Did the FD pay for it? How is it that the Chief could be in position to run radar when a call comes in? Does he sit there waiting for a call? Are these calls real? If not, who called them in? Why is it that the Chief is not responding to these emergencies?

There are other ways of handling this, were they tried?

Edited April 16, 2012 by 10512

[NoWestFF 21]

I give the chief credit for recognizing a potential problem and wanting to address it. Too many firefighters are dying and getting injured each year responding to incidents in apparatus and POVs. The chief's plan is seriously flawed, however, and he should not put it into practice. If he wants to address speeding and possibly reckless driving by his firefighters there are better ways. He should start with a discussion of the plan with his assistant chiefs and company officers...what do they think? Are they part of the problem? They should be able to help enforce a safe response if they take their positions seriously and are respected by the firefighters. What about asking all members to sign a pledge to drive safely...similar to the pledge many firefighters have signed to wear a seat belt while responding to calls? One may say a pledge is only a piece of paper, but if the chief stood up at a meeting and asked all members to sign such a pledge he'd get their attention, maybe their signatures and hopefully their compliance.

No need for me to comment further on the need for the chief to respond to the scene and fulfill his duties as it's been said plainly by previous posters.

And I'm not a problem in my own department, I'm not a wacker and I don't have any blue lights. I'm a past chief and current officer who has his priorities in the right order.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

As mentioned above, he may be chief but he is no leader, he is single handedly destroying moral and his own authority. You don't spy on your own people and expect them to follow your orders or any degree of loyalty, plain and simple.

The fact that he was even thought this was a good idea means that he is not an effective leader and thus not an effective chief. If he was an effective leader/cheif than his members would have followed his orders to abide by a more subdued response policy.

[INIT915 1,119]

I'm not sure we can make any educated assumptions based on the very limited information available to us here. At least I know I cannot.