MTA Considers Partition on Subway Platforms

[x635 4,066]

When I travel NYC Subways, and Metro North, one of my biggest fears, especially with some of the "characters" that are on the platforms, is getting pushed in front of a moving train. I always try to stand by a beam and keep aware of my surroundings. Stations with narrow platforms, such as White Plains, are concerning to me.

Last year, 54 people died on the tracks of the NYC subway. Other cities with large subway systems, such as London, already have these barriers. And, on the GCT-Times Square Shuttle, there are rails at the Times Square end, because people go psycho for that train when it arrived it is mobbed.I know there would be costs involved installing barriers citiywide, but I think it is worth it.

"Stand clear of the closing doors please"

"This is the train to safetyville.....the next stop is actionville"

"Please Watch The Gap Between The Train And The Platform"

The MTA is considering a new safety measure on subway platforms.

According to the Daily News the MTA will reconsider installing sliding doors on subway platforms to prevent riders from falling on the tracks. On Thursday, a woman allegedly pushed an unsuspecting man to his death in front of an oncoming No. 7 train at a Queens subway station.

Read more: http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/MTA-Considers-Partition-on-Subway-Platforms-185153541.html

[wedgeclose 59]

The cost of installing these barriers at this point would be astronomical to say the least. Much simpler and less expensive is to put barriers similar to the ones used for crowd control at Times Square and in other heavy pedestian areas. Only thing is they would have to be permanently anchored. The subways are jammed with people this time of year and extreeme caution has to be used when on the platform.

[helicopper 1,050]

Besides the cost are the logistics. As good as they may be, it will take quite a bit to get each door lined up properly with a manually operated train. The motorman will have to ease into the stations even more slowly and when he/she is off and the doors don't line up 100%, it will further slow boarding down.

[Arbrow06 5]

The thing that confuses me about the logistics that all of the manually operated train systems in many countries with this system this place disprove that as an issue. I think it is a great idea.

1. It improves straphanger safety with such a long population of NYers with mental illness, racist tendancies like the woman from the other day, suicidal people. This improvement takes alot of liability off of the MTA's hands significantly.

2. Track safety will be greatly improved and the cleanliness of the tracks will increase now that there is no direct access to the tracks. If you belong there you will have access otherwise you won't.

This would be a great investment. The installation and purchase of these devices can stimulate job growth and support local industry. This is definitely a smart move. Now to keep the stations and the trains looking sharp and keeping employees motivated.

[Bnechis 3,961]

1. It improves straphanger safety with such a long population of NYers with mental illness, racist tendancies like the woman from the other day, suicidal people. This improvement takes alot of liability off of the MTA's hands significantly.

2. Track safety will be greatly improved and the cleanliness of the tracks will increase now that there is no direct access to the tracks. If you belong there you will have access otherwise you won't.

This would be a great investment. The installation and purchase of these devices can stimulate job growth and support local industry. This is definitely a smart move. Now to keep the stations and the trains looking sharp and keeping employees motivated.

1) More people in NYC get pushed into traffic or down stairs should we gate every sidewalk and staircase. Only 54 people out of 100's of millions of trips each year is very low.

2) MTA does not have liability, since they tell you to stand back and almost everyone who ends up on the tracks (pushed or fell) was too close to the edge to begin with. I cant tell you how many times I see people leaning over the edge to see if the subway is coming.

3) Yes track safety will be improved, but to pay for it they will reduce something that will negate that.

4) Very few things with the MTA are a "great investment". They can not manage their budget without annual bailouts and support from employee payroll tax. We do not need them taking more money, because its already been proven that that it hurts local industry and reduces local employment as companies must reduce the payroll to pay MTA.

[helicopper 1,050]

The thing that confuses me about the logistics that all of the manually operated train systems in many countries with this system this place disprove that as an issue. I think it is a great idea.

1. It improves straphanger safety with such a long population of NYers with mental illness, racist tendancies like the woman from the other day, suicidal people. This improvement takes alot of liability off of the MTA's hands significantly.

2. Track safety will be greatly improved and the cleanliness of the tracks will increase now that there is no direct access to the tracks. If you belong there you will have access otherwise you won't.

This would be a great investment. The installation and purchase of these devices can stimulate job growth and support local industry. This is definitely a smart move. Now to keep the stations and the trains looking sharp and keeping employees motivated.

How great an investment will it be? What's the actual cost? How will that cost be borne by the MTA, perhaps a fare hike?

I'm with bnechis, I don't see the cost/benefit argument and your cleanliness point is moot as all that garbage will simply be on the platforms now since the slobs and pigs who litter won't stop just because of partitions.

And having intimate knowledge of the civil service system, I respectfully disagree with your assertion that there will not be issues associated with the implementation of this from the human factors (operators).

I'm not saying it isn't a great idea. I think a lot of things have been great ideas that simply aren't worth the expense or the trouble.

[M' Ave 1,466]

The NYC Subway system is vast and carries a tremendous amount of people. As a matter of fact, it could carry every person in China twice a year! Do the math, that's over 2 billion rides a year. 54 deaths is a pretty low percentage. It becomes even smaller when you remove those deaths that are associated with track workers.

No one wants to see a single fatality, but the most reasonable way to avoid such things is simply to educate people and hope they heed the warnings. I ride the subway most days. I stand perpendicular to the tracks, I keep an eye over my shoulder and I don't stand close to the edge. In a large and populous system, I think that's all the safety we can get.

[helicopper 1,050]

How many pedestrians are run over by city buses in a year? Probably about the same number. Where's the outcry about that?

We have to stop trying to legislate responsibility!

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Maybe they should just ban these high capacity, high speed assault trains, they're nothing but scary death machines, we don't really need them.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

In all honestly I agree with Chris and Barry on this one (surprise.) I don't see the cost/benefit analysis. If someone wants to kill you in public there are plenty of other ways to do it. And as for the accidents? If you're stupid enough to lean over the tracks to see if the train is coming, well then I don't really know what to say.

[SECTMB 612]

Its a pretty deep trough between the ties and rails. If you keep your wits about you and hunker down in the trough, the cars should pass over over you and you'll keep your head. Don't forget the third rail. Unless you're an athlete, or get some help, you won't have time to climb out if the train is bearing down on you.

So, if you fail to exercise all the cautions previously mentioned, your only hope is likely the trough.

[TRUCK6018 50]

Its a pretty deep trough between the ties and rails. If you keep your wits about you and hunker down in the trough, the cars should pass over over you and you'll keep your head. Don't forget the third rail. Unless you're an athlete, or get some help, you won't have time to climb out if the train is bearing down on you.

So, if you fail to exercise all the cautions previously mentioned, your only hope is likely the trough.

The trough is not deep enough to save you with most subway cars and not deep enough on any MNRR cars as there is a the cow catcher and signal equipment mounted to the under carriage that hangs too low.

MNRR mounting gate on the platform would be problematic as there are four different door configurations on the various cars. M2/4/6 and M3s is one, M7 and 8's is the second, and bom's with and with out the center door.

No matter what you do there will be people oblivious to the hazards of the platform. Those with cellphones, headphones, and the one's with their head up their you know where generally beyond help.

The perfect example was today where a woman boarded my train limited stop Croton Harmon express train @ 125 wanting to go to Ludlow. While I made numerous announcements the stops the train makes (Ludlow not being one of them), she didn't hear any of it because of her head phones. All she saw was an M7 that said Croton Harmon and assumed the train makes all the stops. Once I approached her for her ticket I explained the train does not stop there and she acted as if it was my fault she got on the wrong train.

[Dinosaur 844]

Won't help. People will just find a new and improved way to kill each other/themselves.

[x635 4,066]

And, another preventable death.

Woman falls on NYC subway platform, dies
Written by Associated Press 1-1-2013

NEW YORK — New York City police say a young woman stumbling around on a Manhattan subway platform not far from Times Square fell onto the tracks and was killed by a train

Read more: http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/new-years-day-subway-death-accident-2-train-34th-street-185369562.html

[islander 27]

How many of the 54 deaths were "self-initiated"? When I worked in Transit I'd have to say off the top of my head that 80% (edit: at the very least) of the "man unders" I responded to were suicides or attempts, with pretty much the rest being accidents. I also recall reading a recent story from Long Island of a male who was struck by a train, survived, released from the hospital, only to jump in front of another train the following day and kill himself. Perhaps some would be discouraged, but all the barriers in the world would only delay the inevitable for most of these folks.

Edited January 2, 2013 by islander

[newsbuff 286]

The trough is not deep enough to save you with most subway cars and not deep enough on any MNRR cars as there is a the cow catcher and signal equipment mounted to the under carriage that hangs too low.

MNRR mounting gate on the platform would be problematic as there are four different door configurations on the various cars. M2/4/6 and M3s is one, M7 and 8's is the second, and bom's with and with out the center door.

No matter what you do there will be people oblivious to the hazards of the platform. Those with cellphones, headphones, and the one's with their head up their you know where generally beyond help.

The perfect example was today where a woman boarded my train limited stop Croton Harmon express train @ 125 wanting to go to Ludlow. While I made numerous announcements the stops the train makes (Ludlow not being one of them), she didn't hear any of it because of her head phones. All she saw was an M7 that said Croton Harmon and assumed the train makes all the stops. Once I approached her for her ticket I explained the train does not stop there and she acted as if it was my fault she got on the wrong train.

We are not talking about MNRR, or LIRR, but the NYC subway. There also is no cow catcher on subway cars. But, the platform creates a ledge(by law) that you can fit into if you are small enough...

[SECTMB 612]

The trough is not deep enough to save you with most subway cars and not deep enough on any MNRR cars as there is a the cow catcher and signal equipment mounted to the under carriage that hangs too low.

MNRR mounting gate on the platform would be problematic as there are four different door configurations on the various cars. M2/4/6 and M3s is one, M7 and 8's is the second, and bom's with and with out the center door.

No matter what you do there will be people oblivious to the hazards of the platform. Those with cellphones, headphones, and the one's with their head up their you know where generally beyond help.

The perfect example was today where a woman boarded my train limited stop Croton Harmon express train @ 125 wanting to go to Ludlow. While I made numerous announcements the stops the train makes (Ludlow not being one of them), she didn't hear any of it because of her head phones. All she saw was an M7 that said Croton Harmon and assumed the train makes all the stops. Once I approached her for her ticket I explained the train does not stop there and she acted as if it was my fault she got on the wrong train.

I have had a few experiences with the tracks since my district covered a Metro North station. We pulled a guy from under the train when he tried to stop it and decided to duck at the last minute. Ended up a couple cars in, but only suffered a head laceration. He later drove into a building (Fiore's Beverage). Another time we were called for a track fire. It was a suicide. Person wrapped wire around themselves, layed down and used a pipe to connect to the third rail. Then there was the guy who was sitting on the tracks. When I got to him his top half faced one direction and his bottom half the other.

Subway or rail line, the tracks are a dangerous place, whether on foot or in a vehicle.

[grumpyff 1,159]

We are not talking about MNRR, or LIRR, but the NYC subway. There also is no cow catcher on subway cars. But, the platform creates a ledge(by law) that you can fit into if you are small enough...

In most stations there is not enough room under the platform to take refuge. Usually the third rail shoe will strike you. Also in some stations, the trough is not deep enough, or wide enough to completely get out of the way. Barriers would be more thing to break, or line up the sheep, I mean passengers to be pushed in.

[LTFIREPRG 154]

First to put things in perspective, New York City Transit, (Subways & Buses) move over 7.5 million people daily (5,300,000 subway & 2,200,000 buses) 2011 statistics.

Not sure where the number of 54 fatalities of individuals struck by trains came from but here is a more accurate figure. 128 individuals were struck by trains in 2012 of which 51 were killed. There were an additional 9 individuals who were killed in subway related incidents by contacting the third rail, jumping off the elevated structure etc... with no involvement of trains. 5 pedestrians were struck and killed by buses. While 1 death is to many the shear number of trains and buses moving threw the system daily and the individulas interacting with them, it is a relatively small percentage.

As far as "clearing up" the trough between the running rails in the subways station is plenty deep, if you lie down in it you will not come in contact with the train. Secondly there is not sufficient room under most platforms to clear up if a train is coming, you need to find yourself between the columns between the tracks, our in a niche (a cutout in the wall) keeping in mind any where you see red and white strips on the wall or area you are standing in you will be hit by the train. If the individual is able and the train is not upon them, they should be instructed to walk in the opposite direction of the train to the end of the platform where at the entrance to the tunnel there will be a wall ladder. Also anyone who witnesses and individual on the tracks should immediately or have someone run to the end of the platform and look for a blue light in the tunnel and repeatedly pull the alarm box which will kill the power and use the phone there to speak with the rail control center to advise them of the situation.

As far as the glass subway barriers go, all I will say is they are under review at this time.

[AFS1970 504]

I did not see barriers at very many stops when I was in London, so I would say they are not system wide, or at least were not a year ago.

As for the barriers at the Times Square End of the shuttle line, they are not there to keep people off the tracks, they are there because that is a curved track section and the safety platforms which extend to keep people from falling between the car and the platform are only in certain spots. Union station has similar platforms with no fences. However I took a facinating tour once of stations and platforms that were no longer used, one was at South Ferry, where the platform was built with archways at the locations of car doors in addition to the curved tracks. The only problem was after WWII the train cars got bigger and different models had doors in different places. This meant that the archways did not line up and the parts of the trains ended up to far away from the platforms to enter and exit safely.

It is already crowded and difficult to get onto some subways, with people trying to push their way in both directions at once. I suppose we could do all sorts of mazes and funnels to regulate the sheep, but that would simply lead to "Coconut Grove" style subway trains.

Maybe they should just ban these high capacity, high speed assault trains, they're nothing but scary death machines, we don't really need them.

I was going to say the same thing. Mayor Bloomberg should become an advocate for train control.