Brush Fire Training: Offered And Adequate?

[x635 4,066]

Do departments in the area that have large areas of brush and wildland interface have proper initial and ongoing training to deal with these types of situations? Is it included in basic training? Do departments with brush trucks drill with them regularly?

I remember, in Westchester Career Fire Chiefs Probie School, we learned about forest/brush fires from the NYS Department of Forestry. I think the class was a day or two, and included hands on training to dig a firebreak, etc. It gave us a basic knowledge of how to deal with these types of incidents.

These types of fires are very different, dangerous and unpredictable. Properly fighting these fires is much, much more then putting water on the fire. I would hope that there is plenty of regular training and drills.

[Bottom of Da Hill 76]

so true.

[ks1980 36]

Yea Seth out here in Central Oregon, so different then Westchester well the whole east coast. Kinda annoying, but good I guess. See here you go thru DPSST academy which is state, do 6 months of OJT then get FF1. Oh the point, right is that all FF in Central Oregon need and must pass Wild FF School, prerequisite. This is because of all the wild fires here, however we work very close with USFS. They actually reaspond to some structure fires.

[kinkchaser 352]

I remember many moons ago. Westchester units going to the Pine Barrens of Suffolk County for a huge fire, this had all the markings of something we see in California,.the fire had enough gusto to jump wide six lane highways with huge center mediums, no place for folks with zero wildland fire training, this was not your local grass or leave fire, this was down right life threatening. There is no reason something similar couldn't happen again so training in this discipline would not be a bad idea.

[firemoose827 324]

I remember many moons ago. Westchester units going to the Pine Barrens of Suffolk County for a huge fire, this had all the markings of something we see in California,.the fire had enough gusto to jump wide six lane highways with huge center mediums, no place for folks with zero wildland fire training, this was not your local grass or leave fire, this was down right life threatening. There is no reason something similar couldn't happen again so training in this discipline would not be a bad idea.

This fire was in the 90's, it was right after I moved from Long Island to upstate NY and I remember wishing I was still there to help them. It jumped the Sunrise highway, which your are correct was 6 lanes wide, they had planned to use that as a natural fire line but it didnt work and they had to chase it.

Upstate we get the NYS Class, Wildland Firefighting, taught by DEC rangers. It is a very good class, but when I took it there was little to no hands on portion of the class. We went into a field and practiced "Attacking" the fire from the burnt side like your supposed to or from the flanks. He laid out marking tape on the field and labled the front, the flanks and the rear of the fire, and we learned briefly about digging fire lines. I also took the Wildland Search & Rescue class also taught by DEC and that was a great class too.

We dont train nearly enough with our brush truck, but we just got a new 4 wheeler so I am sure we will start to drill more with that (untill the magic wears off). We have a lot of brush fires too, primarily being farm land and forest.

[markmets415 524]

This fire was in the 90's, it was right after I moved from Long Island to upstate NY and I remember wishing I was still there to help them. It jumped the Sunrise highway, which your are correct was 6 lanes wide, they had planned to use that as a natural fire line but it didnt work and they had to chase it.

Upstate we get the NYS Class, Wildland Firefighting, taught by DEC rangers. It is a very good class, but when I took it there was little to no hands on portion of the class. We went into a field and practiced "Attacking" the fire from the burnt side like your supposed to or from the flanks. He laid out marking tape on the field and labled the front, the flanks and the rear of the fire, and we learned briefly about digging fire lines. I also took the Wildland Search & Rescue class also taught by DEC and that was a great class too.

We dont train nearly enough with our brush truck, but we just got a new 4 wheeler so I am sure we will start to drill more with that (untill the magic wears off). We have a lot of brush fires too, primarily being farm land and forest.

Same here Brian, we've had the both DEC courses as well, shortly after we took delivery of the BRAT we hosted the Wildland course but it the last we have had other then the real deal fires

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Sorry, but I can't justify sending people to school for Wildfire certification when I'm fighting to get funding for basic Firefighter training.

[38ff 250]

The DEC classes are free.

[markmets415 524]

Sorry, but I can't justify sending people to school for Wildfire certification when I'm fighting to get funding for basic Firefighter training.

Alex whom are you fighting with? And that statement seems a bit irresponsible on your part, I'm sure if one of "your" members suffers an injury or god forbid a LODD at a scene of a brush fire and a court happens to see this statement "Sorry, but I can't justify sending people to school for Wildfire certification when I'm fighting to get funding for basic Firefighter training." you won't have to worry about getting funding anymore, it happens, Millerton N.Y., one of our neighboring departments had a LODD at brush/grass fire not that long ago, we respond to just as many brush and grass fire then we do actual structure fires, just be more careful how you choose your words, especially when they are out there for "EVERYONE" to see.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Trust me, with a $4,500.00 a year total department budget supplemented by meager fundraising efforts in a predominantly working-class community, I'd feel totally capable of defending that statement to anyone. If my members have to pay for their own Firefighter 1 training, there is no way that I'm going to shell out what little funds we have for something we do so little of.

I can see doing some brush fire drills every year, that's definitely something that is feasible and low-to-no-cost. But to my knowledge CT DEEP only offers a few brush fire courses a year, and they're definitely not held in the greater New Haven area.

[markmets415 524]

But to my knowledge CT DEEP only offers a few brush fire courses a year, and they're definitely not held in the greater New Haven area.

Then it's time to travel where they are, come on over to NY, training is training, you're a Lieutenant and 24 not that that is a slight by any means as you always offer very good opinions and obviously seem beyond your years, where are your Chief's if your the one "fighting" for funds, I have no idea how CT budgets work but something seems a bit off if that's all your department is getting, NY towns do not get much smaller than Wassaic and our operating budget is low for our area at $240,000.

Edited November 19, 2013 by markmets415

[velcroMedic1987 330]

Trust me, with a $4,500.00 a year total department budget supplemented by meager fundraising efforts in a predominantly working-class community, I'd feel totally capable of defending that statement to anyone. If my members have to pay for their own Firefighter 1 training, there is no way that I'm going to shell out what little funds we have for something we do so little of.

I can see doing some brush fire drills every year, that's definitely something that is feasible and low-to-no-cost. But to my knowledge CT DEEP only offers a few brush fire courses a year, and they're definitely not held in the greater New Haven area.

And I'm sure you would be eaten alive by plaintiff's counsel in the wrongful death suit.

If brush/wildfires are one of your hazards, you have to train for it. The budget argument has never held up in court. Quite the contrary.

(none of this is meant as disrespect.)

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Sorry if I sounded like a smartass, I was having a spirited discussion regarding training with other individuals in my department and I was worked up about it yesterday... My bad.

We're a volunteer division of a tiny combination department that was so strapped for cash they actually had to (GASP) consolidate with the city government, which still hasn't increased the budget, just prevented them from laying off. I'd love to throw 4-5 of my guys in the Department SUV to go take a class out in NY, but we don't have access to that for training. Trust me, its a disaster and I make my protests regarding funding and training known to both the career and volunteer Chiefs anytime I get the chance, which is probably why I'm the black sheep of our officers. As for why I'm the one fighting for training money, I'll keep my opinions on that off of a public forum...

I didn't mean to hijack the topic to discuss my department's budget issues. I definitely understand why brush fire training is important and trust me, the legal implications of what might happen if one of our guys gets hurt has kept me awake on more than one occasion. But like I said I can understand taking a day or two to do some company drills on making a fire line, recognizing the hazards of a brush fire, identifying some of the other resources (DEEP, CT National Guard, Task Forces, etc) that are out there to support us, etc., I just don't think its the most economical use of my department's funding to spend money to send someone to school for a formal brush fire certification. If a free course is within driving range believe me I take the opportunity, and there are several of us who do shell out personal money for additional training, but at the company level we have to prioritize because our department refuses to provide the funds required to meet the cost of doing business.

Edited November 20, 2013 by SageVigiles

[markmets415 524]

Well said Alex, I will keep you informed as to when are going to have a training session, we also work closely with some of the CT folks as well so maybe we can make it work and get you and a few of your members over for some training, Kent CT's Firematic BRAT is now being built, I would say that's about an hour trip from you? Let's make it happen in the spring!!!!!

[SageVigiles 1,194]

An hour and a half or so from the firehouse. 15-20 minutes from my parents place in New Fairfield though.

[markmets415 524]

We'll figure it out and make it a good day and see if we can get the CT and NYS Rangers involved, we can never train enough, last year Kent CT lost an engine at a brush fire, so I'm sure we can pull it off

[ex-commish 490]

"We're a volunteer division of a tiny combination department that was so strapped for cash they actually had to (GASP) consolidate with the city government, which still hasn't increased the budget, just prevented them from laying off. I'd love to throw 4-5 of my guys in the Department SUV to go take a class out in NY, but we don't have access to that for training. Trust me, its a disaster and I make my protests regarding funding and training known to both the career and volunteer Chiefs anytime I get the chance, which is probably why I'm the black sheep of our officers. As for why I'm the one fighting for training money, I'll keep my opinions on that off of a public forum..."

A bit off topic but we ( fire service, ems, law enforcement) have to fight for money and compete for grants yet our government gives billions away every year especially to countries that would assume see us blown into extinction. That being said wasn't there a course on wildland fires given by OFPC as an out-reach class?

[velcroMedic1987 330]

You can also try contacting your State Department of Forestry or whatever its called in CT and have the Forest Rangers come to your station to do a seminar on brush/wildfires. They're already paid for by the State and probably do the training for people anyway so it shouldn't be that tough to set up.

Or you could request another FD send an instructor to you for a few hours. Most will do it for free but even if they don't, it shouldn't hit your budget all that hard.

There are lots of ways to get training. All you have to do is get a little creative. Good luck!