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Minimum Training Requirements for NYS Volunteer Firefighters


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#1 OFFLINE   Remember585

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 03:16 PM

NYS states that minimum training for Interior Firefighters is as follows:

For members that joined before 8/1/02:
Firefighting Essentials and Initial Fire Attack

For members that joined between 8/1/02 and 12/31/05:
Basic Firefighter, Intermediate Firefighter and Firefighter Survival

After 1/1/06:
Firefighter I and Firefighter Survival

The question I had and still have is this: If a member joined an FD say 20 years ago, was the Essentials and IFA the required training, or was it just Essentials?

And, do guys now need to take equivalent or better classes to retain their Interior status, or are they "grandfathered?"

Thanks.
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#2 OFFLINE   firecapt32

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 03:54 PM

Chief

If your Department has as its foundation FireFighter one, then the OFPC has an equilivant as to what consituates firefighter one. At least it does if you are going to test for National Certification. I am not sure if this answers your question or not but if you are referring to an older firefighter that might want to meet the new standard they either have to have the equlivent or take the firefighter one and survival.
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#3 OFFLINE   16fire5

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 03:55 PM

NYS states that minimum training for Interior Firefighters is as follows:


Do they actually have a minimum? I don't think it is legally required anywhere that you take a state course. Hazmat Ops is definatly legally required but I don't know the fire classes are legally.

#4 OFFLINE   ems-buff

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 03:58 PM

Being I have only taken FF1 only.( I only know whats in that class only) Are the major differances between FF1 and Essentials?

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#5 OFFLINE   Remember585

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 04:07 PM

Being I have only taken FF1 only.( I only know whats in that class only) Are the major differances between FF1 and Essentials?


Vinny,

I took Essentials in 1994. All I remember was folding tarps, rolling hose, and putting on our gear and air packs. No real hands on stuff until I took Initial Fire Attack, Fire Attack II and others.

What guys get now in Firefighter I is so much better, it's just not enough yet. I think we should all push to see FF I, FF II, Survival, FAST, HMFRO, Confined Space Awareness, AVET and Truck Ops all into one "minimal" program. Sure it's a lot, but it is a good start.
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#6 OFFLINE   Remember585

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 04:09 PM

Do they actually have a minimum? I don't think it is legally required anywhere that you take a state course. Hazmat Ops is definatly legally required but I don't know the fire classes are legally.


That's kind of what I am trying to verify. We have our own minimum training requirements, and I am trying to make sure we meet what is LEGALLY REQUIRED and put in what we expect from our guys.

Last I knew, each department basically draws up their own set of rules, but I would hate to do it then find we missed something required of us. If you know what I mean.

Thanks.
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#7 OFFLINE   Remember585

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 04:11 PM

Chief

If your Department has as its foundation FireFighter one, then the OFPC has an equilivant as to what consituates firefighter one. At least it does if you are going to test for National Certification. I am not sure if this answers your question or not but if you are referring to an older firefighter that might want to meet the new standard they either have to have the equlivent or take the firefighter one and survival.


Thanks Walt. I kind of figured this, but we wanted to make sure we didn't have to tell a guy that's been in 35 years he now has to take Firefighter I because he never took Initial Attack and that's the only option now.
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#8 OFFLINE   PFDRes47cue

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 04:14 PM

Is the minimal requirement for FF1 and Survival enforced? I only ask because I joined after 1/1/06 and took FF1 and then took Survival after since my FF1 course did not include Survival. I was interior during this gap. Should I not have been? I know others that I have taken FF1 and not Survival who joined after 1/1/06 who are under the impression that they are interior.

Nice post, I am looking forward to seeing the answers that you get.
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#9 OFFLINE   nysff

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 05:04 PM

The minimum legal requirements for volunteer firefighters in NYS are set by PESH, not OFPC, and Firefighter 1 is not the standard. As I have posted before, NYS is a home rule state, so your AHJ sets the plan and training requirements on how you meet the PESH law. OFPC has sent out guidance on what equivalents are for FF 1, but again these are not laws.

#10 OFFLINE   ny10570

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 05:07 PM

With each new standard OFPC included a list of equivalents to catch a member up from the previous level. They never said people were required to catch up, but to continue in the progression of classes you would have to taker the missing classes first.

#11 OFFLINE   HFD219

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 05:23 PM

John I have been out of the loop with training for quite some time but I will do my best...it is to my understanding there is no minimum standard for volunteer firefighters as there is for career firefighters. I posed a question to the state as to why volunteer depts can not have MTO's and that was the response I received by OFPC. The only requirement is the 15 hour OSHA and 8 hour safety training. Due to home rule in NY depts can adopt thier own standards but remember we still have NFPA and allthough their standards are not regulatory they are consensus standards and have been referenced to.

#12 OFFLINE   wraftery

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 06:03 PM

John;
I believe that 20 years ago the only requirement for interior operations (The term "interior operations" didn't exist then either) was Essentials. I don't know about grandfathering.

#13 ONLINE   Bnechis

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 07:00 PM

Do they actually have a minimum? I don't think it is legally required anywhere that you take a state course. Hazmat Ops is definatly legally required but I don't know the fire classes are legally.

Correct there is no legal requirement to take state classes in NYS. Hazmat ops is legally required, but the law clearly states that the employer (and NYS courts say VFD's are considered employers) must certify the firefighters to the HM ops level or higher. Unless you work for OFPC, they can not certify you.

The minimum legal requirements for volunteer firefighters in NYS are set by PESH, not OFPC, and Firefighter 1 is not the standard. As I have posted before, NYS is a home rule state, so your AHJ sets the plan and training requirements on how you meet the PESH law. OFPC has sent out guidance on what equivalents are for FF 1, but again these are not laws.

Very well said.
Yes PESH sets the rules in NYS, but they are based on OSHA regs. Federal law requires NYS PESH to enforce OSHA or stricter regulations to get funding. For years most NYS PESH regs had a state cover with a zerox copy of the federal registry for the subject behind it. Their are a few exceptions (bailout ropes being one), but most times NYS does not exceed the OSHA reg.

#14 OFFLINE   SSCharged E100

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 09:02 PM

I see the county not even offer FF1 by itself anymore. Its either FF1 with FFS or FF1 FF2 and FFS

#15 OFFLINE   JM15

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 09:58 PM

Personally I think FF1, 2 and survival is a great start.... I like the way the county has these classes set up

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#16 OFFLINE   PFDRes47cue

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 10:23 PM

I imagine that AVET and Ladder Ops will be added eventually.
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#17 OFFLINE   JM15

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 11:21 PM

I imagine that AVET and Ladder Ops will be added eventually.

One thing I would really like to see is the move toward the national Pro Board curriculum

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#18 OFFLINE   JM15

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 11:40 PM

Chief, Maybe this will help? if you look at the national certification for FF1 it has all of the equivalent old NYS classes that make it up
http://www.dhses.ny....ations.cfm#fsiI

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#19 OFFLINE   Remember585

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 11:40 PM

One thing I would really like to see is the move toward the national Pro Board curriculum


Agreed. Minimal training for all of us - paid/volunteer in all 50 states - should be the same! People find themselves moving more now then they did years ago to seek work - if a guy is trained to be a firefighter in Alaska he should be qualified to do it in Hawaii!
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#20 OFFLINE   alsfirefighter

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 12:14 AM

Thanks Walt. I kind of figured this, but we wanted to make sure we didn't have to tell a guy that's been in 35 years he now has to take Firefighter I because he never took Initial Attack and that's the only option now.


The thing you need to ensure is that the guy with 35 years has it on his state training record he took it or a copy of the certificate still. If he doesn't and the its not on the record...he can't prove anything..nor can you.

Also if you have personnel that have basic firefighter and never took intermediate....from what I was explained do not meet the OSHA regulation and not FF 1 equivalent. So if you require FF 1 by policy...they do not meet it. And Intermediate no longer exists.


As far as NYS requirement...you really if I understand it right...have to follow the OSHA regulations. The state courses exceed the fire brigade standard.

The county offers what the SFI and CFI's put dates in to teach courses. Most instructors have found it makes sense to tie a day for Survival in with the FF 1 since 1/2 of the skills from survival are in FF 1.
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#21 OFFLINE   alsfirefighter

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 12:15 AM

The minimum legal requirements for volunteer firefighters in NYS are set by PESH, not OFPC, and Firefighter 1 is not the standard. As I have posted before, NYS is a home rule state, so your AHJ sets the plan and training requirements on how you meet the PESH law. OFPC has sent out guidance on what equivalents are for FF 1, but again these are not laws.


FF 1 is...the standard. What it is not is regulatory. It exceeds it in fact and any department would be nuts in todays age not to adopt it as it is the "standard" of the fire service industry as outlined in NFPA 1001
IN BATTLE YOU NEVER RISE TO THE OCCASSION, YOU REVERT TO THE LEVEL OF YOUR TRAINING. TRAIN HARD, TRAIN OFTEN!!

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#22 OFFLINE   dwcfireman

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 04:25 AM

A little confused....I was under the understanding that New York was a "home rule" state, where INTERIOR status was determined by you department's standards. Can anybody enlighten on this??

#23 ONLINE   Bnechis

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 10:54 AM

A little confused....I was under the understanding that New York was a "home rule" state, where INTERIOR status was determined by you department's standards. Can anybody enlighten on this??


Sure, It is up to the dept to set the minimum standard as long as that standard is equal to or exceeds the state minimum, which is so low that no one should consider it.

For career depts. the state law says they must have 229 hours to be interior, but the Westchester minimum standard is 480 hours and FDNY's is longer than that.

Many VFD's require FF1 & FFS, but thats more than the OSHA minimum.

#24 OFFLINE   Remember585

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 04:32 PM

Sure, It is up to the dept to set the minimum standard as long as that standard is equal to or exceeds the state minimum, which is so low that no one should consider it.

For career depts. the state law says they must have 229 hours to be interior, but the Westchester minimum standard is 480 hours and FDNY's is longer than that.

Many VFD's require FF1 & FFS, but thats more than the OSHA minimum.


This may be a dumb question - but in the case of combination departments, can the department/district say that all firefighters (paid or volunteer) have the same minimum training (the 229)?
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#25 OFFLINE   tonyc856

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 03:24 PM

Being from that Era .... Don't laugh my EF course was sign by Nelson Rockerfeller


Ok Barry .... it was just the EF course .. Initial Fire Attack wasn't started to mid 70's before then it was single company operations




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