efdcapt115

We have done NOTHING. In fact we have reduced response capabilities. Didn't the county have cutbacks proposed in WCPD's marine unit? And on Long Island Sound New Rochelle PD cut back its marine unit and eliminated its dive unit.
Interesting point, yes we are too thin, but that is because every dept is trying to do everything. Both NYPD & FDNY are large enough to have dedicated units to do this. What about marine firefighting, is that part of our core?
We did, before the hoisted anchor (and rotor) and scaled back on the hudson, NYC & Long Island Sound (and a 50+ mile radius of the Atlantic ocean around NYC).

In my humble opinion, you should have quit right there, because now your post raises a host of questions.
And you know this because of how? Have you spoken with FD & PD chiefs throughout Westchester, in this case along the Hudson River in the Hudson Valley? Are you aware of any Westchester depts. who might utilize the Water Taxis that work the Hudson, as they seem to be able to respond rather quickly?
So, it's a foregone conclusion that:
#1 FDNY & NYPD "will arise to the occasion" as you put it
#2 "and save the day yet again."
1.Are you saying FDNY/NYPD WILL RESPOND to a Westchester water emergency? Do you know this for fact? Last I checked FDNY has only minimal mutual-aid agreements in place with certain cities in Westchester, although I am aware that recently the brothers were training together for a Westchester mutual-aid response INTO NYC, so this might have been updated.
Can you site the mutual-aid agreement you are refering too?
2.IMHO: It is NEVER a foregone conclusion that ANYONE will "save the day" let alone "yet again." I'm suprised by your bravado. Better start pullin up dem boots "brother"!
The Westchester Career Chiefs have brought forward a plan of consolidation which could significantly improve the delivery of fire services in southern Westchester. Have you heard of this study, or possibly read it?
Are you dismissing without thought the efforts of all the volunteer fire depts. along the Hudson River? Do you not think they would respond to ANY kind of water emergency to the best of their ability?

I find it hard to belive that we are sending non military personal to Hati, MSN has reports of groups of young men lotting and roaming the streets with weapons. I do understand that this is a poor country and these people have nothing and now have less but what is going to happen when 1 of our rescue workers comes under attack for a bottle of water. This country was run by warlords before this tradgey. I hope all members of the FDNY and NYPD stay safe and return soon

The organization that will lead the response is USAID. The US Office for Disater Assistance is the "coordinating" part. The contact for Haiti is former President Bill Clinton. This Office works closely with the US State Department, with Secretary of State Hilary Clinton as the lead I would assume that the communication between these two governmental organizations. Caviats are these, one is that Haiti has a great relationship with the US but not with the UN. The lead organization on the ground in Haiti is US Ambassodor to Haiti Kenneth Merten. The UN has 7,000 peace keepers on the ground there and maybe utilized for security if things deteriorate. If there are not enough monkey wrenches in using the NIMS modeling and ICS to try to organize this is the fact that all of the Haiti government facilities and potential leaders are lost. This would be a great case study for emergency management. As a side note we have been in Haiti since 1915 when Former President Wilson sent in the Marines. Almost a century later and the Marines are once again on the way with the US Navy, US Coast Guard and alot of other federal assets. Is there another Country greater than ours that can provide this? God Bless the men and women that are on their way to save lives.

I forgot to mention that in our system we do no data entry during the call. All reports are generated on desktops using a web based program. The EMS crew has access to computers at the ER for this as well as all the desktops in the station. Our people use notepads or photocopies of the old paper reports to record data until they get to a desktop.
Most EMS agencies around us (vol. or per diem) have laptops in their ambulances for generating reports, but after a few short months, most use the desktops in the ED or at their bases.
I attribute the failure of the laptops use to a few things:
First, the laptops are difficult to disinfect properly and are handled by persons wearing gloves used on multiple patients all day (gross)
Second, the State in their infinite wisdom uses a different version of the software which is far less user friendly, though neither is all that easy to manipulate well.
Third, people realized they were far less likely to pay proper attention to their pateints while struggling with data entry.

I am awaiting delivery of ePCR and am all for it. To be honest it really doesn't matter if I am or not as once they come I will have no choice now will I. However, most of you know I have no issue with change, so I'll have to see how it goes once I'm using it consistantly...if we ever get it...as we expected it weeks ago.
In regard to some of the issues mentioned...the same opposite arguments could be made. For example:
1. I have or have had just as many providers clinging onto the clipboard, so the whole not getting vitals while worrying about the computer thing has been the opposite for me. In fact I'm seeing the computer a lot less then I've seen the dandy old aluminum patient care barrier.
2. I've never had anyone ever say "wait a minute" to me when I've needed new vitals. Perhaps it may happen once...and the key word for me...is once.
3. Generational gaps and issues with technology in my experience is often on the lap of the for the lack of a better term..."older" generation. Many are either intimidated by technology or just dismiss it which puts them in a poor mindset to learn and/or to become proficient. Its really not that hard. My kids could surf the internet on their kiddie pages right around the age of 4.
4. While the old adage if it isn't documented it didn't happen holds some water it isn't always the flat out end all be all. Up until next week I haven't had to go to court for a case involving a call in 5 years. We all know red flag jobs and even with that I've often been asked questions of things that wasn't and not normally documented. So did that mean it didn't happen? Alot comes down to common sense and if you don't come off or get caught be less then truthful or lying, your reputation and stature plays a lot into it. I've also never had any attorney or prosecutor comment that I didn't document something so it must not have happened.
5.
I do quite well getting all of those things done when the system and crews work as they are suppose to. Much of it comes down to proper scene direction by the Paramedic...with the exception of completing a PCR lone less a ECR.
Also on a side note...while I want to ensure my patient is getting the best possible care from finish to end and assist the local ED personnel whom I have personal relationships with as well, I have also not experienced any issues with patient registration in a timely manner. Not to mention the fact that in the end it truly is their responsibility to get that information and we just give them courtesy in the spirit of our patients continuing care and courtesy.
Anyhow...I'm all for it and wish my agency had theirs yesterday.

Date: 1/11/10
Time: 11:50 hours
Location: 84-70 129 st x Kew Gardens Rd
Frequency: FDNY Queens
Weather Conditions: Cold
Description Of Incident: heavy fire on arrival on the 2nd floor of a 6 story MD extended to the 3rd, 4th, and 5th floors.
Reporters/Writer: ryang
Additional Info:
Kew Gardens, Queens, NY, 1/11/10
Address: 84-70 129 st between Kew Gardens Rd and Metropolitan Ave
11:50 hours
Phone Box 9689 - Report of fire on the 2nd floor and heavy smoke on the 3rd floor
Engs. 298, 315, 294
L151, TL127
Battalion 51
10-75-9689 - 11:51 hours
Squad 270 (1st due) is 10-84, transmitting a 10-75 for fire on the 2nd floor
L143 (1st due) available around the corner, assigned in.
L126 (FAST Truck)
Battalion 39
Rescue 4
Division 13
7-5-9689 - 11:53 hours
Battalion 51: We have fire on the 2nd floor of a 6 story MD, we're going to use All-Hands on arrival!
Squad 288
RAC4
11:53 hours
Receiving report of a female trapped on the 5th floor with a baby, unknown apartment.
11:54 hours
BC51: We have heavy fire on the 2nd floor, exposure 1, it's a 100x100 6 story MD.
2-2-9689 - 11:54 hours
Division 13: Transmit 2nd alarm, we have heavy fire on the 2nd floor auto-exposed to the floor above!
Engs. 305, 308, 285, 293
E324 w/ Satellite 4
TL142
Rescue, Safety Battalions
Battalion 46 (Safety Officer)
Battalion 50 (Resource Unit Leader)
Tactical Support 2
FieldCom, Command Tactical Unit
11:56 hours
DC13: 2 additional trucks above the 2nd alarm!
TL138, TL152 S/C
12:00 hours
L126: Advise the incoming units not to come into 129 st from Kew Gardens Rd.
12:01 hours
DC13: 3 lines stretched, 2 in operation, we have fire knocked down on the 3rd floor, extended to the 4th floor. Heavy fire on the 4th floor.
3-3-9689 - 12:03 hours
Engs 275, 299, 302, 301
Battalion 43 (Air-Recon Chief)
Battalion 52 (Staging Manager)
Mask Service Unit
Car 9 (DAC John Sudnik, Queens Borough Commander)
12:06 hours
DC13: Box 9689, 4 lines stretched and operating, main fire on the 2nd floor, the fire floor, extinguished, making progress on the 3rd floor, possible extension to the 4th floor.
12:08 hours
The staging area is Hillside Ave and Metropolitan Ave
12:09 hours
Thawing Unit 293 is responding
12:11 hours
FieldCom: Have Battalion 52 switch to Handy-Talkie channel 5 when they arrive.
4-4-9689 - 12:13 hours
DC13: Box 9689 transmit a 4th alarm, we now have heavy fire on the 4th floor, extension to the 5th floor!
Engs. 319, 236, 286, 225
E262 w/ IMT Unit
TL135, L129
Battalion 33 (Planning Sections Chief)
12:18 hours
DC13: Box 9689, primary searches on the fire floor, which is the 2nd floor, and the floor above are negative. Primary searches on the 4th and 5th floors are in progress. Main body of fire is darkening down on the 4th floor, making progress, main body darkening down on the 5th floor, fire's Doubtful.
12:20 hours
Car 12B (OSHA) is responding
12:20 hours
Receiving apartment 2F, trapped occupants asking for instructions, not in immediate danger.
List of apartments received so far: 2K, 2A, 2B, 2C, 1E, 2F
12:21 hours
Department Mechanic is responding
Car 4 (Chief of Fire Operations Robert Sweeney) is responding
Fire Building Height/Size-up:
6 story non-fireproof OMD 200x100
Exposures are:
1 - street
2 - PD separated by an alley
3 - rear yard
4 - PD separated by an alley
12:25 hours - Duration 38 minutes
FC: Progress report for the 4th alarm, the address 84-70 129 st, fire in a 6 story 200x100 MD. Division 13 reports primary search negative on the B in the 2, 3, 4, 5 floors. Doubtful.
12:35 hours - Duration 46 minutes
12:56 hours - Duration 1 hour 7 minutes
FC: Progress report #6 for the 4th alarm Box 9689, the address 84-70 129 st between Kew Gardens Rd and Metropolitan Ave, building is a 6-brick 200x100 MD, fire on the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th floors. Car 9, DAC Sudnik, Queens Borough Commander, reports: secondary search complete and negative on the 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 floors. 1 10-45 code 4 (Green Tag, Minor). 10-41 code 1. Request Buildings Department to check stability. Probably Will Hold.
12:58 hours - Duration 1 hour 9 minutes
FC with a mixer-off message
13:04 hours - Duration 1 hour 15 minutes
FC: Car 4, Chief of Operations Sweeney, will be in command.
13:05 hours
Car 1H (Commissioner's Liaison) is responding
13:06 hours - Duration 1 hour 17 minutes
FC: Final progress report for the 4th alarm Box 9689, the address 84-70 129 st between Kew Gardens Rd and Metropolitan Ave, Car 4, Chief of Operations Sweeney, reports: secondary search throughout negative, Under Control.
Relocations:
Engines: 83/262, 217/293, 313/298, 50/299, 263/301, 91/263, 94/315, 206/319
Ladders: 176/126, 124/127, 50/138, 140/143, 117/140, 42/117, 3/151
Battalions: 37/50, 26/52

I'm glad I kept my badge. I thought it might come in handy !!!!!!

The Westchester Special Operations Task Force (WSOTF) consists of 10 departments operating a Technical rescue, Hazmat unit and 6 squad companies. The squads are from Yonkers, New Rochelle, Mt Vernon, White Plains, Eastchester & Scarsdale, and Greenville/Fairview/Hartsdale. All squads are trained and equipped for in Hazmat/WMD and Confined Space, all are trained for trench & building collapse, but only 4 of the squads are equiped for that. We train together, we would like to train together more, but sometimes funding is funneled elsewhere and not to WSOTF ($400,000 from a WSTOF major collapse drill went far north). If you wanted the services of WSOTF they can be requested thru 60 Control, but you have to ask for them, if you want WSOTF otherwise they will send the team they feel is "best".
Yonkers, Greenville and New Rochelle responded to Hawthorne for a building collapse after a tornado strike (about 2 years ago). 18 minutes after dispatch we had approximatly 56 technical rescue techs onscene which included 3 collapse units and 2 heavy rescue units. This was on a weekday afternoon.
Is it a duplication to have the Westchester TRT? what kind of response can they provide? Last weekend Valhalla FD had a vehicle into a building and they requested the WTRT to respond. The onscene time was 20 minutes from time of dispatach. How many members arrived in 20 minutes?
WSOTF was able to get 56 fully trained members to Hawthorne in the same time it tok WTRT to respond to Valhalla with "X" number of responders. Note: as of last summer they had approx 25 members who had completed the states building collapse course.
New Rochelle (and others) have responded M/A to other counties and even north to the Canadian Border. When we were trying to establish a county wide system (years before the WTRT) we traveled north a number of times to show volunteer depts that we wanted their participation.

Thanks for the info Mike.

How much does Mr. Dragonetti charge for the elevator course?

What happened to the old "halligan tool into the cable wheel" up in the motor room, to ensure no further movement of the elevator car? Do you not have these cable wheels in the newer style elevators?
Most of the elevators we had in my district were the older type Otis brand, and it was SOP for a truckman to immediately get up there, kill the power and get the halligan tool into the wheel; just in case. Even though most models have auto-locks which prevent the car from moving up or down until power is properly reset.
From there we'd futz around with the complete key set until we found something that worked. Sometimes we needed an attic ladder to remove victims, but that was rare.
Only once were we forced to resort to the hydra-ram, for a particularly cantankerous door. In this case, we needed to add wood blocks to secure the hydra-ram, as the door was forced further until finally the lock gave way; no damage to the door.
It can be a trying type of call. You have people that are anxious to get out of the car, and once you are there, obviously now the pressure is on, the clock is ticking, and dispatch is waiting to hear those famous words, "the victims have been removed safely."
As that clock ticks....STAY COOL.....

I don't think ANYONE has ever broken a Halligan, and no one ever will.
Even if the brakes fail, the elevator operates on counterweights, and the wheel would very slowly only an inch or two at most before it wedges against the Halligan.
BECAUSE OF THE WEIGHTS, THE CAR SHOULD NORMALLY MOVE UP, NOT DOWN.
Sorry about the all caps. I wasn't yelling at you, Frank, the "caps lock" button was stuck.

here are some steps that need addressing and some already have
determine what kind of elevator you are being called to work on you may only have a hydro, but does your mutual aid area have traction elevators?
do you have the keys to open all the doors you may come across?
where is the elevator stuck?
is it a true emergency ie medical call or just a stuck occupied elevator?
do you have an sop for lock out tag out? ANY elevator you are going to work on MUST have the power shut off before starting any evolution.This is probably the most important thing you have to do. with that said do you leave a member at the shut off, (in the old days we always took the fuses out and put them in our pockets), do you shut it off and lock it out so no one else can put it back on, or do you just assume because you shut it off that no one else is in the building answering the same call: IE: building maint, PD, elevator repairman who might turn it back on for whatever reason.
how many people are in the elevator? involves making contact with the occupants and possably calming them down BEFORE any attempt to open doors
where is the car in relation to the floor
is there a fall hazard into the shaft by ANYONE FD or OCCUPANT UPON REMOVAL
a little giant ladder/ closet ladder is standard on all our responses to help remove occupants
how good are you at getting the doors open practice makes perfect
AND PLAN B FOR THAT ONE IN A HUNDRED CALL WHERE NOTHING YOU PRACTICED WORKED
This is just a quick overview some steps were already mention in previous posts I am sure i left out something along the way

We welcome the newest addition to our family today. Brianna Cecilia was delivered at 0824 hrs weighing 7lbs 12oz, 19 inches. Mom, Brianna, Big brother A.J., and yes dad are all doing fine.

How about the former Mayor of Mount Vernon denying the Fire Department to respond because he "DIDN"T WANT ANY OF HIS FD MEMBERS COMING BACK INJURED AND FILING FOR A DISABILITY" ! We went down as a union not a department!

Our district already has one elevator, and is soon to be gaining another one via new construction right in the village. This one is going to be used a lot more than the current one, but regardless I would like to brush up and learn more on the ins and outs of getting a person or persons removed from an elevator that will not operate, and any other incidents that may occur involving one.
My experience is limited so I know this is the place to come to to help me, thanks to everyone who responds and takes the time to put together their knowledge.
How do you train or how would you train? Any evolutions or is it simply a verbal discourse on the subject with perhaps a Power Point slide to back it up?

I'd hate to disapoint you!

You guys have some GREAT information in this thread. Why don't you all start really bumping each other up with these "reputation buttons"? This is one of the more productive, less dramatic threads. Give yourselves some credit. Just MHO.

Well... I go to SUNY Maritime and the Chief Hospital Corpsman. EVERYONE in the school who is in the regiment and studying to become a USCG licensed Third Mate or Third Engineer, goes through both MSC Basic Shipboard Firefighting and MSC Advanced Shipboard firefighting. I've gone through both and currently in FF1, and I can say the on-land and at-sea firefighting are like two fraternal twins. On a ship or small vessel like a tug or a powerboat you need to also understand the concept of ship stability, all the water you pump to put on the fire has to go somewhere and thus adds weight. Where as on land, too much water is never an issue. If a room is about to flashover on-land you can escape out a window wheres at sea escaping from the fire is putting your lifeboats over the side and waving the ship goodbye.
In my department you need to be approved by the chief, FF1, USCG Safe Boating certificate, and just have basic seamanship skills, (common sense) Soo i hope that helps. If anyone has any more questions about Military Sealift Command fire training or shipboard stuff in general just ask or pm, i go to college to learn how to put out fires on ships.

It's pretty similar to what has been posted, removal of burning material from the "firebox," followed by chains and/or bombs. Tarps are placed for initial removal and any bouncing embers. Checking for extension is usually occurring during this process while the top of the chimney and the bottom are operating. Folks on the roof are packed up as well as anyone else entering the structure, dry line is stretched to the door.
How it is treated? A special kind of structure fire designation is the best way I can put it.
I am curious to see more about the use of PPA/V in extinguishment however.

I'll second that, I remember hearing 60-Control dispatch that as I was getting ready to head into the 50 Pct, and thinking "what the hell was that."
...as a side note all you need to open those magnetic hydrants is a good strong speaker magnet, and a pipe wrench. just ask any kid in the neighborhood to show you how to do it.

Well I am glad some can actually past the BS and nonsense and take some good from this post. Yes, it could have been taken as stirring the pot, and I will admit - it may have been - a little. BUT..I KNOW those vollies who post here, who are active in conversations, to gain knowledge and information from the more esteemed members ARE NOT THE TYPE WHO WOULD CALL IT A DAY IF THE TOOK AWAY THE BELOVED WHOOPIE LIGHTS. You, and I do it for the right reasons..
Barry nailed it - the young fellar in question who I saw, at a local gas station talking to his other young buddy, was driving a raggedy a** pick up, dual whip antennas, primer, bondo, stickers UP THE WAZOO, a dash light, lights in the rear window, and the holy grail of buffiness, a shiny new full length LED bar with yellow, blue, and red to the back (he turned it on to show his buddy)...His buddy laughed, said it was illegal and the Chief might make him take it off...his reply, "Hell with that! i'll quit first!"
For the record - I used to have a bazillion whoopie lights on my vehicles..(Seth can attest to that! LOL!)....got in trouble a few times too..actually had a Chief with BALLS who took them away for 3 months. I slowly learned my lesson.
It aint about lights...stickers...LOSAP...etc...It's about doing the right thing. Doing all you can to be the BEST firefighter you can...learning, training, and applying.
To those who cry shhut this topic down, perhaps the truth hurts?

I don't know about how everyone who was working in southern Westchester that day feels; but I can tell you I have never felt good about the way things went down on 9-11. I can't see anybody trying to take any credit for what we did not do.
I remember very distinctly that morning and the ensuing chaos. We received tones following the collapses to the effect of "all departments south of 287 respond to Manhattan." As eager as we were to respond, our Chief decided to hold units, stock medical supplies and await further orders. A recall of all off duty members was instated; the southern Westchester Chiefs formulated some kind of plan, and units eventually responded to the Bronx staging area. My squad was working, so we were held held back, while off-duty members beefed up staffing on rigs and responded to the Bronx. Frustrating.
The story from the responding Captain was that the staging area was at times somewhat out of control. A chief in the firehouse had a missing son in the collapse and guys were eating pizza in the street and joking around. Embarrasing.
We went on 24on/24off schedule for a few days. There was nothing that most of us could do, except cover our own response areas. Some members staffed a full compliment ladder company, relocated to a Bronx station, and had to endure a "lecture" from a former fire commissioner in front of FDNY members. Humiliating.
When somebody finally organized something for the hundreds of career firefighters to "officially" do, we all boarded tour buses out of Station 3 in Mt. Vernon, rode down the West Side in front of cheering crowds, ran a gauntlet of tools and supplies, walked to the site to be met at the FD Command Post and told "sorry guys, there's been a mix-up, we have to go home." Then we had to walk past cheering crowds back to the buses. Humiliating and frustrating. I remember a brother, back on the bus asking "what did we come here for lunch?"
The only times I ever felt useful was helping fill the ranks at funerals. This came with a call through the unions, it had nothing to do with the County. One of the earliest was in the Bronx; using a Yonkers Casson and honor guard for the casket. I'll never forget the now deceased Chief from Yonkers who helped me to get a grasp on the magnitude of what had happened. When that Chief left us a couple/few years later, I thought back to the day we buried FDNY Firefighter Manuel DelValle. I could never have imagined that Chief wouldn't be with us thereafter.
Frustration, embarassment, humiliation.
Every one of us who ever attended a funeral or memorial for a 9-11 cop or firefighter knows who the true heroes were. As Captain Billy Burke's brother said at his funeral in St. Patricks Cathedral "One hundred years from now, all of us will be gone and mostly forgotten. But these 343 firefighters names and memories will live way beyond that." That rang so true to me.

I don't know about how everyone who was working in southern Westchester that day feels; but I can tell you I have never felt good about the way things went down on 9-11. I can't see anybody trying to take any credit for what we did not do.
I remember very distinctly that morning and the ensuing chaos. We received tones following the collapses to the effect of "all departments south of 287 respond to Manhattan." As eager as we were to respond, our Chief decided to hold units, stock medical supplies and await further orders. A recall of all off duty members was instated; the southern Westchester Chiefs formulated some kind of plan, and units eventually responded to the Bronx staging area. My squad was working, so we were held held back, while off-duty members beefed up staffing on rigs and responded to the Bronx. Frustrating.
The story from the responding Captain was that the staging area was at times somewhat out of control. A chief in the firehouse had a missing son in the collapse and guys were eating pizza in the street and joking around. Embarrasing.
We went on 24on/24off schedule for a few days. There was nothing that most of us could do, except cover our own response areas. Some members staffed a full compliment ladder company, relocated to a Bronx station, and had to endure a "lecture" from a former fire commissioner in front of FDNY members. Humiliating.
When somebody finally organized something for the hundreds of career firefighters to "officially" do, we all boarded tour buses out of Station 3 in Mt. Vernon, rode down the West Side in front of cheering crowds, ran a gauntlet of tools and supplies, walked to the site to be met at the FD Command Post and told "sorry guys, there's been a mix-up, we have to go home." Then we had to walk past cheering crowds back to the buses. Humiliating and frustrating. I remember a brother, back on the bus asking "what did we come here for lunch?"
The only times I ever felt useful was helping fill the ranks at funerals. This came with a call through the unions, it had nothing to do with the County. One of the earliest was in the Bronx; using a Yonkers Casson and honor guard for the casket. I'll never forget the now deceased Chief from Yonkers who helped me to get a grasp on the magnitude of what had happened. When that Chief left us a couple/few years later, I thought back to the day we buried FDNY Firefighter Manuel DelValle. I could never have imagined that Chief wouldn't be with us thereafter.
Frustration, embarassment, humiliation.
Every one of us who ever attended a funeral or memorial for a 9-11 cop or firefighter knows who the true heroes were. As Captain Billy Burke's brother said at his funeral in St. Patricks Cathedral "One hundred years from now, all of us will be gone and mostly forgotten. But these 343 firefighters names and memories will live way beyond that." That rang so true to me.