spin_the_wheel

Looks like a good job by the IC in what (hopefully) will be a once in a lifetime incident.
I hope Critical incident stress debriefing was offered to the first responders and I would hope Metro North would offer something to the passengers as well. By what I have read some very horrific images were witnessed by first responders and civilians.
Chiefs and commissioners...when you swore in the 18, 19 year old gung ho members they put their trust in you. Physically and mentally. So did their parents who probably signed "consent" forms. You don't want them resigning over this, leaving your organization and being forever "broken" over what they witnessed.
Good job guys.

Looks like a good job by the IC in what (hopefully) will be a once in a lifetime incident.
I hope Critical incident stress debriefing was offered to the first responders and I would hope Metro North would offer something to the passengers as well. By what I have read some very horrific images were witnessed by first responders and civilians.
Chiefs and commissioners...when you swore in the 18, 19 year old gung ho members they put their trust in you. Physically and mentally. So did their parents who probably signed "consent" forms. You don't want them resigning over this, leaving your organization and being forever "broken" over what they witnessed.
Good job guys.

Looks like a good job by the IC in what (hopefully) will be a once in a lifetime incident.
I hope Critical incident stress debriefing was offered to the first responders and I would hope Metro North would offer something to the passengers as well. By what I have read some very horrific images were witnessed by first responders and civilians.
Chiefs and commissioners...when you swore in the 18, 19 year old gung ho members they put their trust in you. Physically and mentally. So did their parents who probably signed "consent" forms. You don't want them resigning over this, leaving your organization and being forever "broken" over what they witnessed.
Good job guys.

Looks like a good job by the IC in what (hopefully) will be a once in a lifetime incident.
I hope Critical incident stress debriefing was offered to the first responders and I would hope Metro North would offer something to the passengers as well. By what I have read some very horrific images were witnessed by first responders and civilians.
Chiefs and commissioners...when you swore in the 18, 19 year old gung ho members they put their trust in you. Physically and mentally. So did their parents who probably signed "consent" forms. You don't want them resigning over this, leaving your organization and being forever "broken" over what they witnessed.
Good job guys.

Looks like a good job by the IC in what (hopefully) will be a once in a lifetime incident.
I hope Critical incident stress debriefing was offered to the first responders and I would hope Metro North would offer something to the passengers as well. By what I have read some very horrific images were witnessed by first responders and civilians.
Chiefs and commissioners...when you swore in the 18, 19 year old gung ho members they put their trust in you. Physically and mentally. So did their parents who probably signed "consent" forms. You don't want them resigning over this, leaving your organization and being forever "broken" over what they witnessed.
Good job guys.

Looks like a good job by the IC in what (hopefully) will be a once in a lifetime incident.
I hope Critical incident stress debriefing was offered to the first responders and I would hope Metro North would offer something to the passengers as well. By what I have read some very horrific images were witnessed by first responders and civilians.
Chiefs and commissioners...when you swore in the 18, 19 year old gung ho members they put their trust in you. Physically and mentally. So did their parents who probably signed "consent" forms. You don't want them resigning over this, leaving your organization and being forever "broken" over what they witnessed.
Good job guys.

My previous post was based in the previous ISO rating schedule that was in effect in NYS from 1980 to June 2014. The new schedule has changed to the following:
A. Training Facilities and Use (T1):
Training conducted at a live fire training facility.
Up to......................................................................................................................35 points
1. Facilities (FA): Maximum Points
Live fire training structure including smoke room 17
Drill tower at least 3 stories in height 10
Training area at least 2.0 acres in size 8
Maximum (FA) = 35
2. Use of Facilities (U):
For full credit under this item, each member of the department should attend 18 hours of training at the facilities credited in Section 580A1.
Multiply the points credit for facilities (FA) by the factor (U) for use of the facilities by all company members:
Maximum 18 hours per member; (U) = number of hours per member ÷ 18
Maximum for factor (U) =1.00
T1 5 (FA)(U)
Training at the facilities credited in this section must be in accordance with the general criteria of NFPA 1403, Standard on Live Fire Training Evolutions and NFPA1410, Standard on Training for Initial Emergency Scene Operations.
Note 1: Their are a number of additional training requirements beyond the facility use ones.
Note 2: Above where it says "All company members" This section hurts volunteer fire departments that do not clearly separate "active" members from "social" (or formally active) members. I.E. Your department has 100 "members", 20 are active and complete 100 of in-service training per year ISO will calculate this as 2,000 total hours (20 x 100) but they will average it out to the 100 members and will only credit you with an average of 20 hours per member (not the 100 hours). It is critical that departments identify the number of "Active" members. This also may mean that Fire Police and scene support members are being counted and that may hurt your rating if they do not maintain the same amount of hours as your interior members. ISO will let you slide on this if you clearly categorize who your "Firefighters" are.

Points
1. Facilities and Aids (FA)
Drill Tower . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8
Fire Building (including smoke room) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8
Combustible Liquid Pit . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5
Library and Training Manuals . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
Slide and Movie Projectors and pump and hydrant cutaways . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . .2
Training area (this may include streets or open areas when no other training facilities are provided) . . . . . . .10
Those points are used in a mathematical calculations, so if you do not use the facility, it generates no points
2. Use (FU)
Multiply the points credit for facilities and aids by the following factors for use of the facilities and aids by all company members:
Maximum
a. Half-day (3 hours) drills, 8 per year (0.05 each) ......0.40
b. Half-day (3 hours), multiple-company drills, 4 per year..... 0.40
c. Night drills (3 hours), 2 per year (0.10 each).... 0.20
Note: A single company drill may receive credit under a and c; a multiple
company drill may receive credit under a, b, and c.
Ti1 = (FA) (FU)
Note: the Combustible Liquid Pit may be substituted with propane based props or other flammable liquid training materials and the Slide and Movie Projectors can be replaced with computer based training systems (powerpoint & DVD's)

I think your comments are very ignorant and you being an IC yourself should keep to the facts on an incident and if you have any questions or concerns voice them in a professional manor. Monday morning quarterbacks are great. You should be ashamed of yourself, if you think you can come and do our job take the test and get on the list.

Bottom of Da Hill, on 03 Feb 2015 - 11:28 PM, said:
why stand by fd units from ossining isnt that a little far away?maybe armonk or west harrison white plains ?
Bottom of Da Hill, on 04 Feb 2015 - 01:47 AM, said:
or maybe just maybe the dispatcher is a member of said FD? thats what it is?you have fairview hartsdale sleepyhollow tarrytown just a few miles away.favoritism with few dispatchers i noticed.
Bottom of Da Hill, on 04 Feb 2015 - 02:06 AM, said:
i know all about mutual aid very well and i agree with you to a point.but there is favoritism.
Bottom of Da Hill, on 04 Feb 2015 - 03:16 AM, said:
the grand scheme should get what you need there sooner then later kinda like a fast team? thats my experience tells me its not a parade.get what you need ASAP.i dont think the dispatchers should have that kind of power to show favoritism to the dept they belong to.
Well all the departments you listed including Ossining are a 12-15 minute drive to Valhalla's station. It's not about speed and who is closest for relocations, it's how to balance all of the resources in the county. A relocation is not an emergency per se. It is better to skip over several departments so that wide gaps in coverage aren't created in the process. Hawthorne, Valhalla, North White Plains, Elmsford, Thornwood, and Briarcliff had units committed to this job during rush hour. Leaving TFD, SHFD, PHFD, WHFD, AFD, untouched meant that whichever company relocated to VFD would have had a full complement of second due departments nearby available to respond to another major incident.
You're hung up on Ossining but the fact of the matter is that they've got a half dozen engines two trucks rescue and support equipment plus a lot of manpower. I'd like you to name a major job North of White Plains from the past 20 years that they haven't been on or relocated for. An 3 man engine or 1 man truck from Hartsdale on a relocate... That's just silly. If I was Greenville, Hartsdale, or Fairview I'd decline the request for a relocate knowing that if have to call back manpower to cover my first due.
The box was filled appropriately and just because a few Ossining members work for or have previously worked for 60 control does not indicate favoritism. If it's big and in northern Westchester you can be sure Ossining, Bedford Hills, and/or Yorktown are going to be part of the job.

Based on some of these posts, I can't help but wonder if some of you were dropped on your heads as babies. What is even more concerning is how little some people know, armchair quarterback and jump to conclusions.
I have a fairly good amount of training regarding trains and train emergencies. I have - what I believe - is a wealth of knowledge of the fire service, including resources in this county and around us. I also have responded to and run a handful of incidents involving mass-casualties.
I have never - nor has 99.5% of you - had an incident like this. The people running it did a TOP NOTCH JOB, and the fact that some of you are sitting back, typing away and criticizing any decisions of the Incident Commander or any others at this incident just fortifies why I have little faith that we can ever become better as a county. Some of you posting here are officers, past officers or - God help us - aspiring officers in your respective agencies. As the Maitre D' in Ferris Bueller's Day off said, "I weep for the future."
/rant
And for the record, this is me, as a person, voicing my opinion which has no reflection of any affiliation I have or have had in the past.

6 people lost their lives and others injured and this is what's bothering you? Get over it. Stop with the favoritism nonsense and the boo-hoo why didn't they call X, Y or Z.
Resources were called as needed during what I could only imagine to be a chaotic and overwhelming scene.

There is a member on this thread who is obviously intentionally trying to hijack threads and create conflict. He's made several inflammatory comments in other threads on other matters, and I just removed a post of his in the Somers Firehouse Fire Incident Alert thread trying to start the same argument he's trying to make here. He's been warned before about this behavior, but seemingly doesn't care. His behavior and assertions are offending numerous members of this forum, intentionally creating hostility, and taking threads off course. Therefore, his posts must be approved by a moderator prior to being seen by the general membership going forward. This isn't just one post were talking about, this is a pattern of behavior across different threads and it needs to stop. I don't care if people accuse me of censorship regarding this, something needs to be done since this type of repetitive behavior without regard for its consequences damages this forum and inhibits constructive and interesting discussion and dissemination of accurate information.
The dispatchers on duty at 60 Control did an excellent job during this overwhelming and unprecedented incident. Many people don't understand what it's like to work in a multi-jurisdictional multi-discipline communications center, and the complexities that come along with it on a normal day, let alone during something like this. This forum, and I, will not stand by them and not let a member purposely use this as a venue to try and tarnish and second guess such strong and solid work with such unfounded, unfair, and intentionally inflammatory claims.
I ask that this issue ends here, and constructive discussion regarding this incident resumes. If you have any concerns regarding this, please contact me.

"Bottom of Da Hill" - you keep accusing a dispatcher of just dispatching his department to an incident. Don't you think that he/she would have to answer to a Supervisor? How do you know someone didn't call on the phone and tell him/her who to send?
Do everyone a favor, STOP!!!! You are making your whole department look foolish,

Bottom of Da Hill give it a rest already! You are just making yourself look even more and more clueless. No one agrees with you here (how can you not see that?), no one with any education will agree with you here, and no one wants to read any more of your posts trying to hijack and ruin this thread with your personally biased, absurd claims of favoritism. I'm starting to suspect you're just upset your department wasn't called. Again, wrong incident, wrong thread, and wrong time to be making such stupid claims.

A lot of people have been banned from here, or left on their own, for whatever reasons. That's part of it.
Message boards in general are "old hat" nowadays, with many people choosing Facebook or other forms of social media to share their thoughts, opinions and photos. I am a member of numerous boards, covering various topics, and very few of them are as active as they used to be.

Elmont Nassau County LINY Total-1490, 1107 firecalls, 383 ambulance requests, 16 working fires, 41 mutual aid fire requests (FAST included) 50 alarms at Belmont Race Track, 81 calls on the Southern State Parkway.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Elmont-Fire-Department/550454695023432

Not everyone in MD, just Prince George's and Baltimore City... Haha
The majority of PG County is a low income area, especially after all the military families moved out and DC started being gentrified. Our Battalion borders Southeast DC, which is somewhere between Dodge City and Baghdad in terms of violence. Plenty of gang and drug activity in the county, I beleive during the 90's PG had one of the highest murder rates in America. Also lots of garden apartment buildings with no sprinkler systems, and just generally crappy building construction all over the place. It's not a nice place to live (with the exception of a few towns) but it's a helluva place to be a Fireman. Not too many other places where volunteers can get the fire experience you can get down here. (Or up here, in your case.)

AND...every night is Friday. Best Of Luck!!! Keep the Macks running!

Well guys after 43 years as a Port Chester Firefighter [ 18 years very active volunteer working at DPW then getting the dream job getting paid to do what I love to do this is my last day. It didn't end the way I wanted it too but away I go . I was fortunate to catch the war years when we went out every day for a job worked side by side with many dept.'s and made a lot of life long friends on mutual aid. I saw a lot of death and sorrow [ Gulliver's 24 DOA Stouffer's 26 DOA 9/11 world trade center ] and saved a few along the way but my greatest call was closing a large window [ life savers building ] for a 84 year old lady who was freezing because her window was open and she needed help. The next day she baked a apple pie for me and my partner. So I say good bye to it all and hope that I left a small mark somewhere. To my 2 sons that are following or trying to follow in my foot step's keep up the good work in this most rewarding profession . Good luck to the guy's that are left on my job and hope that thing's get better for you and the people we were sworn to protect.
Angelo Sposta [ Retired Local #1971 ]

Their is a science to fleet management and many departments have no idea about this.
What is the best time to replace a rig? Much depends on its condition, wear and tear etc. A small department that runs 300 calls a year vs. a busy one doing 10,000. etc.
But their are a number of factors to consider:
1) NFPA standards list 25 years max life, but only if the vehicle has a safety upgrade at 15 years. How many safety updates has the industry seen in the last 25 years? seatbelts, antilock breaks, automatic traction control, tilt testing, etc.? What is the liability on keeping rigs longer than this?
2) Resale value. At 10 years and 1 day the resale value of apparatus dramatically drops. Their are some large depts. that have a very progressive program to remove all rigs from primary service at 8 years and place them into the spare fleet. They are sold before their 10th year. The maintenance costs avoided, plus the resale value mean these departments actually spend less (over a 30-40 comparison) than those depts. that keep the rig until its only value is for scrap metal.
3) Maintenance Costs. Most apparatus components are covered under warranties, almost all run out by 8-10 years. The cost of maintaining older apparatus is dramatic compared to new (particularly when many costs are covered by warranties). Experience shows that in a fleet of 20 vehicles, the 2 oldest may take up to 80% of the maintenance budget. And it is not uncommon for depts. to spend 5-10%/yr. of the cost of a replacement on older apparatus. This does not take into account the down time which is hard to measure financially. As many major manufacturers have gone out of business these costs and time goes up.
4) Budget Cycle - Most depts. never set a long term replacement cycle. This creates major financial stress and causes delays in purchasing which will increase costs (particularly interest costs for bonding). If you have 100 apparatus in your fleet and you determine that the average life you want is 10 years, then every year you need to buy 10 new rigs. If you have 4 rigs and you want 20 years than every 5 years you need to buy a rig. This pattern must continue forever. If the rig ages get to close together, your costs get piled on in a very short period. If you have a steady pattern it is easier to budget and maybe even save for.
Replacement cost (average):
2 engines $500,000 each
1 ladder $1,000,000
1 Rescue $250,000
Your average is $562,500. If you buy one new rig each year you need to budget $112,500 every year (plus inflation) and you will maintain your fleet at no rig over 20. and a new rig every 5 years.

You know I just don't get it. We are all suppose too be fire service brothers and sisters. Yeah I know BMA, its very real.
BUT why would people here on this forum be against this? On one hand people here argue about short staffing and not having enough people to do a job. THEN when something gets passed, that may help manpower in a catastrophic emergency, there are people against it.
Wow. JMO be safe all.

I'm not sure the intent for this bill was for the firefighter taking a month off.
I think it was created to protect the firefighter who takes a day or two off if the community he serves in is hit with a major emergency situation.