FFPCogs

Thanks Peter for the kind words....I understand what you and Alan are getting at....still I will rest when at least the official IAFF total is 344....try to see it from my point of view.....FDNY can do as it pleases but the IAFF is supposed to represent all members...

Just going to leave this here...

It has been my experience that many departments, well at least the proactive ones, leave personnel behind to staff the firehouse when attending parades or other times a good number of members will be out of town. In fact in some cases staffing actually increases at these times as those left behind are committed to responding or better yet staffing the firehouse. Now if only VFDs would get on the bandwagon and staff their firehouses regularly the instances of inadequate responses could be dramatically reduced.

It has been my experience that many departments, well at least the proactive ones, leave personnel behind to staff the firehouse when attending parades or other times a good number of members will be out of town. In fact in some cases staffing actually increases at these times as those left behind are committed to responding or better yet staffing the firehouse. Now if only VFDs would get on the bandwagon and staff their firehouses regularly the instances of inadequate responses could be dramatically reduced.

It has been my experience that many departments, well at least the proactive ones, leave personnel behind to staff the firehouse when attending parades or other times a good number of members will be out of town. In fact in some cases staffing actually increases at these times as those left behind are committed to responding or better yet staffing the firehouse. Now if only VFDs would get on the bandwagon and staff their firehouses regularly the instances of inadequate responses could be dramatically reduced.

Yes it does and if we'd get back to understanding and teaching this instead of trying to regulate every move on the fireground in the name of "safety", the fireground would become a much more productive place.
 
Know your tools...including your rigs, how, when and where to use them to the best effect and then use them as the situation dictates to get the job done.
 
There was a thread on here a few months ago about radio etiquette with a video in which a "bad" word was used. The issue has also appeared on Statter 911 recently. Now the use of "bad" language is not why I bring this up here, I do because the short sweet and concise content of that comment is the point. Early in the video of a 2 alarm job in Queens(?) a member notifies an interior officer that he has a line in place at the top of the second floor stairs and asks that officer what he wants him to do. The officer replies "put the f#ckin' fire out"!!....and THAT my friends is the point. 
 
Our job is to "put the f#ckin' fire out" in the quickest and safest way possible using all the tools at our disposal, is it not? That million dollars worth of equipment sitting out in front of the fire building isn't there just for show. Those big red trucks with flashing lights and sparkling chrome are more than just glorified taxis and parade pieces...they are one of the many tools at our disposal, nothing more, nothing less. And when the situation dictates they should be used as such to put the f#ckin' fire out!!! 
 

Educating the public on how and why we do what we do is always a good thing, but the reality is most people don't really care, nor should we expect them to. By a huge majority all the public knows and cares about when it comes to us is that there's a building with big red trucks with sirens and flashing lights down the street and that we show up with those trucks when we're called. Beyond that there is very little time in their busy and hectic lives to give us even a passing thought..and that should come as no surprise since, by that same large majority we don't spend our time thinking about how and why they do what they do. I mean how many of us give any thought to why an accountant does their job as they do or why that cashier at the grocery store checks and bags our items the way they do....unless the way they're doing it inconveniences us.
 
Where all of this comes to prominence is when we're dealing with the bean counters, who to be fair, also have a job to do...even if we don't like that we're the target of that job. Educating them becomes a primary concern when funds for staffing or equipment or training come under scrutiny. We have to be able to justify the expense of the services we are providing and why we provide them the way we do. I think this article does a good job of explaining some of that, although I think we're all aware that there are a number of other reasons why members "stand around" outside beyond simply FAST/RIT.
 
I know most of you who "know" me here will find this hard to believe, but sometimes I over think things, look at things a little deeper than what's on the surface. After reading this I find myself doing so again. I asked myself why would we have to explain ourselves to a public that for the most part really doesn't care why we do what we do....well I think in some way this has more to do with us than it does with "them"...here's what I mean:
 
After 9/11 there was a huge upsurge in respect and support for firefighters and fire dept.s everywhere and an equally large up tick in the level of interest of what we do. And we all benefited from that to one extent or another. But (there's always a but) in the 15+ years since, those levels have naturally waned, as these things often do.  But from our end, I think some became accustomed to that public attitude and the accolades that came with it and thought it would last forever. But alas nothing does...life goes on after all and people outside the fire service fell back into their routines and worrying about their own lives. To take it a bit further (and anger some I'm sure) there are some FFs and dept.s who one could argue tried to use the tragedy of those 343 lost brothers to further their own agendas, even though they had no direct connection to the events of that dreadful day. Now the point of all this pontification may seem like it has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic at hand, but in fact it does because the event of 9/11 and it's aftermath have shaped our collective perception of how we think the public sees...or should see...us. Many firefighters, being "insiders," have a hard time understanding why anyone would question our actions, on the fireground and off, and some may even become angered by thought of having to explain ourselves. But that is on us, not them. They are why we are here and they pay our way, so they have every right to ask "why are so many FFs standing around"....even if they really don't care about the answer.
 
But back to the beginning, most people might question why so many FFs are standing around, but in the end they really don't care...they only want to get the service they need when they need it and it's up to us as professionals to give it to them. If we can educate a few along the way that's great, but if we can't that's ok too, as long as we do our jobs the best we can and remain humble in doing so. 

Educating the public on how and why we do what we do is always a good thing, but the reality is most people don't really care, nor should we expect them to. By a huge majority all the public knows and cares about when it comes to us is that there's a building with big red trucks with sirens and flashing lights down the street and that we show up with those trucks when we're called. Beyond that there is very little time in their busy and hectic lives to give us even a passing thought..and that should come as no surprise since, by that same large majority we don't spend our time thinking about how and why they do what they do. I mean how many of us give any thought to why an accountant does their job as they do or why that cashier at the grocery store checks and bags our items the way they do....unless the way they're doing it inconveniences us.
 
Where all of this comes to prominence is when we're dealing with the bean counters, who to be fair, also have a job to do...even if we don't like that we're the target of that job. Educating them becomes a primary concern when funds for staffing or equipment or training come under scrutiny. We have to be able to justify the expense of the services we are providing and why we provide them the way we do. I think this article does a good job of explaining some of that, although I think we're all aware that there are a number of other reasons why members "stand around" outside beyond simply FAST/RIT.
 
I know most of you who "know" me here will find this hard to believe, but sometimes I over think things, look at things a little deeper than what's on the surface. After reading this I find myself doing so again. I asked myself why would we have to explain ourselves to a public that for the most part really doesn't care why we do what we do....well I think in some way this has more to do with us than it does with "them"...here's what I mean:
 
After 9/11 there was a huge upsurge in respect and support for firefighters and fire dept.s everywhere and an equally large up tick in the level of interest of what we do. And we all benefited from that to one extent or another. But (there's always a but) in the 15+ years since, those levels have naturally waned, as these things often do.  But from our end, I think some became accustomed to that public attitude and the accolades that came with it and thought it would last forever. But alas nothing does...life goes on after all and people outside the fire service fell back into their routines and worrying about their own lives. To take it a bit further (and anger some I'm sure) there are some FFs and dept.s who one could argue tried to use the tragedy of those 343 lost brothers to further their own agendas, even though they had no direct connection to the events of that dreadful day. Now the point of all this pontification may seem like it has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic at hand, but in fact it does because the event of 9/11 and it's aftermath have shaped our collective perception of how we think the public sees...or should see...us. Many firefighters, being "insiders," have a hard time understanding why anyone would question our actions, on the fireground and off, and some may even become angered by thought of having to explain ourselves. But that is on us, not them. They are why we are here and they pay our way, so they have every right to ask "why are so many FFs standing around"....even if they really don't care about the answer.
 
But back to the beginning, most people might question why so many FFs are standing around, but in the end they really don't care...they only want to get the service they need when they need it and it's up to us as professionals to give it to them. If we can educate a few along the way that's great, but if we can't that's ok too, as long as we do our jobs the best we can and remain humble in doing so. 

Educating the public on how and why we do what we do is always a good thing, but the reality is most people don't really care, nor should we expect them to. By a huge majority all the public knows and cares about when it comes to us is that there's a building with big red trucks with sirens and flashing lights down the street and that we show up with those trucks when we're called. Beyond that there is very little time in their busy and hectic lives to give us even a passing thought..and that should come as no surprise since, by that same large majority we don't spend our time thinking about how and why they do what they do. I mean how many of us give any thought to why an accountant does their job as they do or why that cashier at the grocery store checks and bags our items the way they do....unless the way they're doing it inconveniences us.
 
Where all of this comes to prominence is when we're dealing with the bean counters, who to be fair, also have a job to do...even if we don't like that we're the target of that job. Educating them becomes a primary concern when funds for staffing or equipment or training come under scrutiny. We have to be able to justify the expense of the services we are providing and why we provide them the way we do. I think this article does a good job of explaining some of that, although I think we're all aware that there are a number of other reasons why members "stand around" outside beyond simply FAST/RIT.
 
I know most of you who "know" me here will find this hard to believe, but sometimes I over think things, look at things a little deeper than what's on the surface. After reading this I find myself doing so again. I asked myself why would we have to explain ourselves to a public that for the most part really doesn't care why we do what we do....well I think in some way this has more to do with us than it does with "them"...here's what I mean:
 
After 9/11 there was a huge upsurge in respect and support for firefighters and fire dept.s everywhere and an equally large up tick in the level of interest of what we do. And we all benefited from that to one extent or another. But (there's always a but) in the 15+ years since, those levels have naturally waned, as these things often do.  But from our end, I think some became accustomed to that public attitude and the accolades that came with it and thought it would last forever. But alas nothing does...life goes on after all and people outside the fire service fell back into their routines and worrying about their own lives. To take it a bit further (and anger some I'm sure) there are some FFs and dept.s who one could argue tried to use the tragedy of those 343 lost brothers to further their own agendas, even though they had no direct connection to the events of that dreadful day. Now the point of all this pontification may seem like it has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic at hand, but in fact it does because the event of 9/11 and it's aftermath have shaped our collective perception of how we think the public sees...or should see...us. Many firefighters, being "insiders," have a hard time understanding why anyone would question our actions, on the fireground and off, and some may even become angered by thought of having to explain ourselves. But that is on us, not them. They are why we are here and they pay our way, so they have every right to ask "why are so many FFs standing around"....even if they really don't care about the answer.
 
But back to the beginning, most people might question why so many FFs are standing around, but in the end they really don't care...they only want to get the service they need when they need it and it's up to us as professionals to give it to them. If we can educate a few along the way that's great, but if we can't that's ok too, as long as we do our jobs the best we can and remain humble in doing so. 

Yes it does and if we'd get back to understanding and teaching this instead of trying to regulate every move on the fireground in the name of "safety", the fireground would become a much more productive place.
 
Know your tools...including your rigs, how, when and where to use them to the best effect and then use them as the situation dictates to get the job done.
 
There was a thread on here a few months ago about radio etiquette with a video in which a "bad" word was used. The issue has also appeared on Statter 911 recently. Now the use of "bad" language is not why I bring this up here, I do because the short sweet and concise content of that comment is the point. Early in the video of a 2 alarm job in Queens(?) a member notifies an interior officer that he has a line in place at the top of the second floor stairs and asks that officer what he wants him to do. The officer replies "put the f#ckin' fire out"!!....and THAT my friends is the point. 
 
Our job is to "put the f#ckin' fire out" in the quickest and safest way possible using all the tools at our disposal, is it not? That million dollars worth of equipment sitting out in front of the fire building isn't there just for show. Those big red trucks with flashing lights and sparkling chrome are more than just glorified taxis and parade pieces...they are one of the many tools at our disposal, nothing more, nothing less. And when the situation dictates they should be used as such to put the f#ckin' fire out!!! 
 

I don't think that's a cupola, but rather an air conditioning unit I believe. And I see no problem with using the aerial to remove it as shown. 

Yes it does and if we'd get back to understanding and teaching this instead of trying to regulate every move on the fireground in the name of "safety", the fireground would become a much more productive place.
 
Know your tools...including your rigs, how, when and where to use them to the best effect and then use them as the situation dictates to get the job done.
 
There was a thread on here a few months ago about radio etiquette with a video in which a "bad" word was used. The issue has also appeared on Statter 911 recently. Now the use of "bad" language is not why I bring this up here, I do because the short sweet and concise content of that comment is the point. Early in the video of a 2 alarm job in Queens(?) a member notifies an interior officer that he has a line in place at the top of the second floor stairs and asks that officer what he wants him to do. The officer replies "put the f#ckin' fire out"!!....and THAT my friends is the point. 
 
Our job is to "put the f#ckin' fire out" in the quickest and safest way possible using all the tools at our disposal, is it not? That million dollars worth of equipment sitting out in front of the fire building isn't there just for show. Those big red trucks with flashing lights and sparkling chrome are more than just glorified taxis and parade pieces...they are one of the many tools at our disposal, nothing more, nothing less. And when the situation dictates they should be used as such to put the f#ckin' fire out!!! 
 

When I first got on and worked in South Queens where there was lots of private dwelling fires and a fair share of vacant buildings this was very common.  The vacants then had the plywood HUD windows which the the chauffeur would take out.  The outside teams were very aggressive and operated independently.  So the ladder chauffeurs (who were very experienced firefighters from very busy trucks) would routinely take the attic window for VES.  SOP at time was to place the tip against the top of the window or wood and lower the stick.  It really wasn't that long ago but I feel as if we know a lot more.  First of all most people have embraced two in two out to the point that VES is done as a team.  As a firefighter in the Bronx we teamed up for VES (Roof and OV) and I thought it was better.  
 
Most importantly hopefully we think a lot more about coordinating ventilation and it's effects on the overall operation.  The fact is ventilation without water being applied to the seat of the fire is going to make the fire bigger and create flow paths.  So we need to think about why we do it.  If we're going to search for life we will need to isolate the area we are going to search or the fire is coming for us.  If we are going to VEIS we want to minimize the amount of air we are feeding the fire so we should not vent until we are fully geared up and in position.  To me this means facepiece on hood on on the tip of the aerial with your haligan.  This way you break the window, enter, find the door to the room, close it and search.  If you break it with the aerial and then climb up you have given the fire air for probably another minute minimum that will have a high potential of growing the fire.  I will be honest and say this is not how we used to do it but in the past 10 years we have been given some good information that we should use to refine our tactics and work smarter and safer.  Many say we are not thinking about potential victims when we refine these tactics but it's not true.  
 
If you're venting for fire then we need to have water on the fire and I'd argue it's not so critical that we need to use the tip of the aerial.  
 
I guess my point is that I'd rethink the tactic more based on our better understanding of fire dynamics (behavior) over concerns for the health of the aerial ladder.  

The situation dictates your actions.
 
If I had a dollar for every time myself or my crew did something outside the box or not taught in a classroom to help operations, on both the fire and ems sides of the job, I'd be sitting on a nice pile of cash.
 
Never criticize someone for getting the job done. We don't know the particulars of this. If that was the only viable option, go for it.
 
Hopefully the NFPA, NIOSH, OSHA and PESH police, who have never been on the line and have never been faced with making a split second, outside the box decision, will not come and arrest the aerial operator.

Hadn't watched the video before, but I'd want to be sure my operators understood when it was OK and how it was done. In this case with the aerial mostly retracted it would seem far less likely to be damaging than if that had been at full extension. Aerials are not meant to be sideloaded, or torqued in any manner. This is exactly the type of use the aerial engineers feared when we talked about this. Again, maybe the situation called for this and the risk was worth the reward...

FDNY vented with the tip of the aerial as a matter of routine. It proved to be quick and effective and did not cause undue wear and tear on the ladder. Fire trucks are tools, unfortunately many departments treat them as parade pieces at the expense of sub-par performance on the fire-ground. BTW, FDNY did not spec their sticks with gizmo's and buff paraphernalia mounted on the working end, so there was no chance of creating additional airborne debris. 

Alot is being made here of proper staffing and I too agree that staffing should be a priority, but my comments are more directed at departments that use 2 in 2 out to justify not acting when action is necessary. One of the benefits of my particular kind of firefighting "career" is that I get to work with guys from just about everywhere and the fact is there are now departments that do NOT risk to save a life and they use 2 in and 2 out as one of the reasons for their inaction. It's not about showboating or being a cowboy or a tough guy, it's about doing what we are here to do when it counts...when lives are in the balance and there is a chance we can make the difference. Bottom line in my book, there is no excuse for not acting when someone's life is savable...period. It is my belief and my experience that 2 well trained, knowledgeable and safely aggressive firefighters can make the attempt to at the very least contain the fire to give those trapped a better chance at survival and they can do this based on all they know to make the judgement that the risk is worth it. Unfortunately it is also my experience that there are firefighters out there now (and maybe not here but they are out there) that are being trained that they should not act without "proper" staffing even if they could make the difference...and I'm sorry but that to me is completely contrary to our primary mission.

A few guys telling me the NYPD has the suspect(s) in custody for the bombing. Perp(s) apprehended in the area of Belt Pkwy and VZ Bridge.
 
As many as Five in custody.
 
If that's true, great job by those in blue. 

Listening to DeBlasio I can only shake my head, what a dope. "Intentional" uh duh ya think!! The very nature of a bombing (or mass shooting) is to instill fear...no not just fear but terror...in people. To make them afraid to go outside, to gather in peace, to go to work, in fact to simply live their lives normally. Ignoring the obvious does not make people safer, it makes them ignorant of what's going on around them. Well I got news for ya Mr. Mayor this was an act of TERRORISM no matter who did it. Time to can the PC bullsh!t and start calling these attacks what they are...TERRORISM. We, as a nation, have got to face up to the reality of the world we live in today otherwise we aren't going to be prepared for the next attack...and make no mistake, as we sit here typing away, that next attack is being plotted by someone somewhere right now. 

Listening to DeBlasio I can only shake my head, what a dope. "Intentional" uh duh ya think!! The very nature of a bombing (or mass shooting) is to instill fear...no not just fear but terror...in people. To make them afraid to go outside, to gather in peace, to go to work, in fact to simply live their lives normally. Ignoring the obvious does not make people safer, it makes them ignorant of what's going on around them. Well I got news for ya Mr. Mayor this was an act of TERRORISM no matter who did it. Time to can the PC bullsh!t and start calling these attacks what they are...TERRORISM. We, as a nation, have got to face up to the reality of the world we live in today otherwise we aren't going to be prepared for the next attack...and make no mistake, as we sit here typing away, that next attack is being plotted by someone somewhere right now. 

 
 Not too much I can argue about that one.
 
 And oh yes, in our Blast from the Past, the news media DID report it to first be a "transformer explosion" when that bomb went off in the lower level of the parking garage at the WTC in 1993. Only to find out later that they gave us the wrong scoop.
 
The other incidents you bring up as well. Just a little criminal mischief with nothing else behind it, I suppose.
 
 Excellent points brought up.
 
 

And all this surprises anybody????
 
As I'm learning, out here in NM we also have a "Fire Fund" derived from a percentage of insurance premiums. The difference, at least as far as I can tell, is that FDs out here have to meet operational benchmarks to receive funds. The more benchmarks reached the more an FD gets. And out here it is based in large part on your ISO rating. To help manage this fund and it's use there is a division within the State Fire Marshal's office that goes around the state to:
1) Help departments increase their rating
2) Watchdog the money to ensure it is getting spent where, by law, it's supposed to be spent... on the operational side of things  i.e. rigs, training, equipment, LOSAPs ect.
 
Now I'm sure there are pitfalls and areas where oversight and such could be improved within the system here, but it strikes me that they have the right idea. Whatever you want to call it, money such as this should be dedicated solely to improving the operational capabilities of a department and yes there should be benchmarks to be reached to keep the tap flowing. 
 
Let me just clarify that I'm not accusing anyone in Hartsdale or anywhere else of any wrongdoing, but I think this is another case of traditions not in step with the realities and needs of today. Yes it's the way it's always been done, but for any number of reasons, the way it's always been done might need to be changed.  In a time when many departments, career and volunteer alike, struggle with operational shortcomings, couldn't that money be better spent on dealing with those shortcomings rather than:
"department social functions - such as installation dinners, picnics, banquets, holiday parties; appliances, furniture, televisions for the firehouse; dress & parade uniforms, hats, boots, jackets, t-shirts" ??
 
 

Excellent point Pete. Whether we must deal with Terrorism, mass shootings, or even just the everyday crime, trying to be PC is NOT the answer. Burying our heads in the sand and hoping our problems go away doesn't work. I think 23 people injured in this incident. That's 23 more than should have been hurt.
 
 We have allowed our civic leaders to destroy our own safety by allowing those out to hurt us the ability to hurt more.
 
 In the first World Trade center bombing of 1993, over 1,000 people were injured and I believe six people were killed. That was a bomb placed in a car in the below sub level parking garage of one of those WTC Tower Buildings. It was so powerful that it blew through FIVE levels of solid concrete in that garage. Our Leader then (President Clinton - the same one that lied about cheating on his wife on national television), had every opportunity to get Bin Laden then. But he didn't and instead the terrorist got stronger.
 
 Then in September, 2001, just eight years later, our country is attacked again. This time it is the Worst Attack ever on American soil. Bin Laden takes credit for accomplishing this. Perhaps this could have all been prevented had our leader then taken the proper steps to deal with it.
 
 So with this most recent event occurring in NYC, where do we go from here ? History does have a way of repeating itself. Will the mayor of NYC treat this as the former U.S. President treated the first WTC bombing ? I hope not and I hope he has learned not to repeat the mistakes of others.
 
 I don't have the answer on what to do or how to handle it. But that's not my job, "that's theirs" !!!

So yesterday I was in NYC for the Steuben Day Parade, I got home around 7. By 9 I was hearing news of the explosion. I had already heard about the bombing in NJ earlier in the day. I spoke with a friend who is an EMS Chief in NJ. He told me they were all notified to be on alert. Then reports of an explosion at a mall in Virginia started coming in, followed by reports of an active shooter at a mall in Minnesota. Fairly quickly they determined the one in Virginia to be a transformer explosion (wasn't that the initial dispatch in 1993?). This morning I got up and started hearing the news media fall all over themselves to remind us who was not at fault. In Minnesota it turned out to be a mass stabbing (if only we had some common sense knife control) by someone asking victims if they were muslim and stabbing those that said no, all the while speaking of allah. The local police there say they have no idea what his motivation was. The news media says this was not terrorism. We will hear no more about guns, because it turns out that the attack was stopped by a good guy (off duty cop) with a gun.
 
We have to get out of this national state of denial we are in. The media, politicians and even the investigators are refusing to even look at the most obvious possibility because it might offend someone. Well here is an idea, if you want to kill me and destroy my country, then I do not care one bit if you are offended.

Listening to DeBlasio I can only shake my head, what a dope. "Intentional" uh duh ya think!! The very nature of a bombing (or mass shooting) is to instill fear...no not just fear but terror...in people. To make them afraid to go outside, to gather in peace, to go to work, in fact to simply live their lives normally. Ignoring the obvious does not make people safer, it makes them ignorant of what's going on around them. Well I got news for ya Mr. Mayor this was an act of TERRORISM no matter who did it. Time to can the PC bullsh!t and start calling these attacks what they are...TERRORISM. We, as a nation, have got to face up to the reality of the world we live in today otherwise we aren't going to be prepared for the next attack...and make no mistake, as we sit here typing away, that next attack is being plotted by someone somewhere right now.