38ff

Firemoose,

No, is not a joke. Our county says they have very limited hours/money for training. Yes, we have the outreach programs, but there is not nearly enought of them to keep up with the demand (bodies needing training) in the county. This has been brought up in countywide fire district meetings, Battalion meetings, ect. Same story no matter where you go on whatever level.
I have gotten in 12 new members in the past few months in my district due to a great recruting program done both inhouse and by FASNY that want to be/physically can be "interior SCBA wearing, hose weilding, a** kicking FF's" ... I am able to send 2 of them to FFI class due to county rules, which is 2 members per dept per "high demand" class. The other 10 get told, "well, you just have to wait for the next class" That could be several months off, and even then, it may not be non where near local (within a 45 drive one way). So they start to loose interest (and I dont blame them), .. They say to themselves, "You wanted me here, but you cant officially(read as having state certification saying I know what Im doing) train me, so whats the point".. I'd probably walk away also......

Ok, fine. As a district, I will pay (out of my budget for something that the state/county does provide, but its not nearly enough as the demand is for for free) for a state instructor, have them teach the OFPC class to the OFPC standards/doctrine, and would ASSUME that you'd get a state certificate. However, this is not the case. You dont get a state certificiate, you get a "in house" one, which is meaningless outside the confines of the district. If I have my inhouse cert, and I want to take a OFPC taught FF2 class, since I dont have a state issued cert, I cant take FF2.

So as a district, do I pay good money for good training that is meaningless as the state is concerned? What happens when someone gets hurt/killed that had a "inhouse cert" but not a state one? Im sure the lawyers would love that one. It could be a LONG time before I can get my other 10 people thru an outreach class.

Bottom line as a district, I'd pay for the training but the state makes it so I can not do so AND get a state certificate for the training....... So whats a guy to

Firemoose,

No, is not a joke. Our county says they have very limited hours/money for training. Yes, we have the outreach programs, but there is not nearly enought of them to keep up with the demand (bodies needing training) in the county. This has been brought up in countywide fire district meetings, Battalion meetings, ect. Same story no matter where you go on whatever level.
I have gotten in 12 new members in the past few months in my district due to a great recruting program done both inhouse and by FASNY that want to be/physically can be "interior SCBA wearing, hose weilding, a** kicking FF's" ... I am able to send 2 of them to FFI class due to county rules, which is 2 members per dept per "high demand" class. The other 10 get told, "well, you just have to wait for the next class" That could be several months off, and even then, it may not be non where near local (within a 45 drive one way). So they start to loose interest (and I dont blame them), .. They say to themselves, "You wanted me here, but you cant officially(read as having state certification saying I know what Im doing) train me, so whats the point".. I'd probably walk away also......

Ok, fine. As a district, I will pay (out of my budget for something that the state/county does provide, but its not nearly enough as the demand is for for free) for a state instructor, have them teach the OFPC class to the OFPC standards/doctrine, and would ASSUME that you'd get a state certificate. However, this is not the case. You dont get a state certificiate, you get a "in house" one, which is meaningless outside the confines of the district. If I have my inhouse cert, and I want to take a OFPC taught FF2 class, since I dont have a state issued cert, I cant take FF2.

So as a district, do I pay good money for good training that is meaningless as the state is concerned? What happens when someone gets hurt/killed that had a "inhouse cert" but not a state one? Im sure the lawyers would love that one. It could be a LONG time before I can get my other 10 people thru an outreach class.

Bottom line as a district, I'd pay for the training but the state makes it so I can not do so AND get a state certificate for the training....... So whats a guy to

1 more with trailer

from the back

for 38ff

I'd be happy if I could pay a state certified instructor to teach a OFPC class to the standard and then get a state certificiate for it. I"d write the check in a heartbeat.

That is the exact problem in a nutshell that we are running into, JM15....

In theory you could do that. You would want to show that the instructor(s) were competent and followed curriculum that met the standards. The easiest way would be to follow the OFPC curriculum. The member could be issued an in-house FF1 certificate but that carries no weight outside of that district. You will run into problems if your taking county or state classes due to the pre-requisites or even going mutual aide. It really is just not an efficient way to do it.

I'd rather chance a back problem using a harness to bail out with than just using gravity..

Orange County BOCES offers this program:
www.ouboces.org/CTE/CareerAcademies/firescience.cfm
Upon successful completion of the program, students are eligible to sit for the New York State Firefighter 1 Certification Exam. Program follows the New York State Office of Fire Prevention and Control Curriculum:
• Firefighter I
• Scene Support Operations
• Hazardous Materials Operations
• Confined Space Safety
• Defense Against Weapons of Mass Destruction Awareness
Certification Opportunities:
• Firefighter I
• American Heart Association CPR, First Aid and AED
• New York State Emergency Management Office Certification: Incident Command System (ICS-100)

I'd rather chance a back problem using a harness to bail out with than just using gravity..

There should be a set standard, at least in theory. But the real question is "can it be implemented?"

Being screwed up is one thing NYS doesn't need training in, and can teach at the Federal level, as they are experts....

All reasonable complaints and it shows how screwwed up NYS is.
State and federal law require the "employeer" to provide the training. NYS DOL & the courts have long ruled that VFD's are employeers and volunteers are employees.
If we hire a new firefighter my city has to pay for his training.
If you recruit a new firefighter we also have to pay for his training
If the state/county can not provide enough classes, then the local dept should be allowed to do it or allowed to fund it.

Being screwed up is one thing NYS doesn't need training in, and can teach at the Federal level, as they are experts....

Why the change in location?

1/2 the fun of the event was getting to see the trucks inside the warehouse. My son especially liked the big ARFF trucks because you don't see them at musters/parades.. In other news the Pump Primers muster at Harrisburg was AWESOME!

It's important to remember that in an emergency situation, minutes seem like hours. The public needs to be reminded of that.

I like the discussion here. But I have yet to really hear from any department (other than one) that is really interested in putting all of our heads together to work towards the same thing.
Firefighter safety, survival and rescue training is near and dear to me. I firmly believe the additional 24 hours of FAST training should be tacked on to the Firefighter I & Survival classes the WCFTC puts out. I also can't comprehend why survival training and rescue of our own is not minimum training for all of us. To make it a separate program and not make it required training STATEWIDE irritates the living hell out of me.
What further irks me is that guys walk out of the training center, carrying their Firefighter I certificates (most not take Survival, thanks WCDES) and never again take a course to better themselves in the interest of all those that they will be working with.
Survival and Firefighter Rescue Training needs to be a requirement - period, end of story.
/rant

If they dont want to sit outside a building, I take it that they dont expect someone to do it for them either..... Hopefully nothing happens while they are inside.

We were sitting in station 3's kitchen watching the news of the fire in Hackensack before the collapse and we could not believe that they did not know it was a truss building. We saw that is what it was and how advanced the fire was. I remember the descussion that they needed to backout and then it collapsed.
I will never forget.
If you and your dept. did not learn the painful lessons of that day, then shame on you!
If you do not train every member in building construction and how fire effects it (and how it effects fire) you did not learn the leasons of that day.

If you do not do building inspections or at least walk throught and document hazards you did not learn the leasons of that day.

If you do not have seperate fireground and dispatch channels (and use them everytime) you did not learn the leasons of that day.

If you do not do accountability (so you know where your firefighters are operating) you did not learn the leasons of that day.

if you do not operate a command post with enough people to track resources and be able to hear all radio traffic (because the chief is trying to multi task to many jobs) you did not learn the leasons of that day.

If you do not evaluate & reevaluate conflicting condition reports you did not learn the leasons of that day.

If you exceed proper span of control you did not learn the leasons of that day.

If you do not stage tactical reserves you did not learn the leasons of that day.
In Westchester, many of these lessons were never learned or they have been forgotten.
I will never forget.

Yes, Marlboro was called for standby at MH station 2 for general coverage. We have no tech rescue team or anything like that. I enjoyed checking out their Antique Mack they had in the bay until they released us. When we are called to stand by for MH, we now go to station 2, as our mutual aid engine's hose bed was modified and no longer fit height wise in station 1.

kingsferry, thanks for your insight, as well as to all.
I've been to numerous musters over the past 20 years I've been involved in the fire service, including Milford, Kensico, Croton Point, Los Angeles, Texas, and others. I learned a great deal by attending and participating in these events. One of the other reasons that I think killed a lot of musters is the internet. Instead of having swap meets or vendors, Ebay and E-commerce have replaced that. Another main reason is that there tends to be a mentality of why things can't happen, instead of the mentality that it can happen.
I think it's very important to preserve the heritage of the fire service. A great deal can be learned about the things that we do and why. The heritage of the fire service, and how "easy" we have it now, can't really be appreciated until you see it. And I want to specifically focus on the heritage of the fire service in the Hudson Valley. There is a lot of talk about tradition and how it is negative, this is one that I think would be a positive.
This can happen. There are a lot of obstacles, but there are many ways to overcome them. I'm sure we could get sponsors, as I've already been contacted by a few. And if departments can make parades, car shows, and carnivals happen, then the collective power of the membership of this forum can make it happen.
AND, I'd like to include EMS and PD in these events as well. There are a lot of people with vintage EMS and PD vehicles, and we should include them to make this not only a firematic, but an emergency services muster.

Does anyone have contact info for the Jeep owners? I have one I am restoring, and would love to check out the ex Milleood one. I even have a picture of it taken at a Valhalla Muster I can give them a copy of.

Yes, that is my son, when we were testing out the pump on my own personally owned piece of apparatus. He wanted to take the "fireman picture" for Mommy. I had somone at the pump panel, he and I went over by the monitors, got him situated, I backed out and took the picture, and he got out, total exposure time of 30 seconds at the most, thats after they were running for 1 hour with no problems or movement, and they were staked down, even though you cant quite tell in this picture and pump pressure was just enough to get water out. Risk of problems was very very very low, and made lower by the exposure time. He was told not to touch anything, and he didnt.
The 9G holders are for my district, where A) the boxes currently are shoved in a compartment, where people need to "think about it" to get them, Im trying to do better than the $20 medical cart glove box holder for my apparatus, as with all the risk of lawsuits, Im trying to cover my district's rear end, as we spent a decent amount of money getting the right 9G certified mounts/tiedowns/mechanisms to keep equipment from flying around in the cab. Perhaps the biggest reason for mounting them in the cab with in easy reach is they are right there, no one can use the excuse "I forgot, or I couldnt find them" or
From my research, there must be alot of depts/districts that have a box loose in the cab, or they dont use gloves for EMS calls, as apparently none of the manufacturers currently produce one. If there are none of the propper rating as per the NFPA, I will have to explore the next best option of what IS out there.
I figure I'd ask on here as to what others are doing.

Yes, that is my son, when we were testing out the pump on my own personally owned piece of apparatus. He wanted to take the "fireman picture" for Mommy. I had somone at the pump panel, he and I went over by the monitors, got him situated, I backed out and took the picture, and he got out, total exposure time of 30 seconds at the most, thats after they were running for 1 hour with no problems or movement, and they were staked down, even though you cant quite tell in this picture and pump pressure was just enough to get water out. Risk of problems was very very very low, and made lower by the exposure time. He was told not to touch anything, and he didnt.
The 9G holders are for my district, where A) the boxes currently are shoved in a compartment, where people need to "think about it" to get them, Im trying to do better than the $20 medical cart glove box holder for my apparatus, as with all the risk of lawsuits, Im trying to cover my district's rear end, as we spent a decent amount of money getting the right 9G certified mounts/tiedowns/mechanisms to keep equipment from flying around in the cab. Perhaps the biggest reason for mounting them in the cab with in easy reach is they are right there, no one can use the excuse "I forgot, or I couldnt find them" or
From my research, there must be alot of depts/districts that have a box loose in the cab, or they dont use gloves for EMS calls, as apparently none of the manufacturers currently produce one. If there are none of the propper rating as per the NFPA, I will have to explore the next best option of what IS out there.
I figure I'd ask on here as to what others are doing.