sueg

Wrong!
"Nothing showing" clearly means that there is no obviously visible signs of a fire from the street.
I've been to a lot of fires in my 20+ years in the fire service and there have been very, very few instances in which there were absolutely no visible indicators of a fire of any significance upon the first unit's arrival. I would suspect that my experience is consistent with the vast majority of the fire service. I would submit that if 90+% of the time when you arrive, there is no visible indicators of a fire and subsequent investigation finds that there is in fact, no fire, then "nothing showing" clearly does mean something. The report of "nothing showing" would mean that there's a very high likelihood that there is not a fire of any significance in progress at that location.
Yes, there could be a fire hiding somewhere waiting to break out, particularly in a commercial building vs a SFD, but to take the stance that the lack of exterior visual clues is irrelevant is simply irresponsible.
The report of "nothing showing" or use of different terminology conveying a similar meaning is not where the problem lies. The problem lies with your personnel and leadership if they show up and are not ready for battle.

We have on officer that uses something close to this. My question is can we not assume that an arrival report is "from the exterior"? Are we so scared of something that the details must be included? Are people confused that no smoke may still mean there's fire showing? Or is you report fire, must you also note the smoke? I actually don't care what is said, but I do like the same phraseology to be used by everyone in the same department, but that's just me. We use: "Nothing showing, will be investigating".
I think it has far less to do with what the words are, and much more to do with what those hearing the report do. I fail to see why reporting there are no visible smoke/fire conditions is a problem. Please enlighten some of us as to the issue?

Wow! Here we go again.
It sounds like the first arriving officer should now say "Arrived at 100 Main Street I don't see anything but I'll have to investigate further because I can only see sides 1 and 2. Have incoming units reduce their response to non-emergency but they don't have to proceed with caution any more because those words trigger something in their brains and they may get into an accident. OOPS, I said sides1 an 2. For those of you who can't convert that, it's A and B. No signs of fire after my 360, but the neighbors keep pointing to the house across the street. Whoop, there it is."
Why not just leave it as "Nothing Showing"

The term n"nothing showing" is fine. Short sweet and to the point. It can be a helpful assesment in conjunction with other reports as well. Perhaps units operating at a 1sty. commercial taxpayer have a strong odor, an the OV Man gives a report from the rear that "nothing is showing", could it be buttoned up really tight? Could there be fire, just not visible, indicating that it is in an early decay (possibly very dangerous) phase?
Nothing showing is info, it means......there's nothing showing. At least for us, we wouldn't say "on scene, investigating", because they already know where on scene. Investigating, I'd think, is assumed. I don't think anyone's doing a cursory drive by.

From a dispatcher's point of view, arrival size-up can be valuable. For example, if we know we received what sounded like a legit call for a structure fire, and the first unit on scene reported, "Nothing showing.", we would immediately initiate a rapid supervisor's review of the 911 phone call and ANI data. Excited citizens on untraceable cell phones give less than reliable info sometimes.
We also knew that "Nothing showing." was understood by all departments in the county to mean an initial, rapid size-up from the street as the first unit arrives, and that investigation would be initiated and a better report was to follow. Having a good definition of a phrase like this in place puts it in the right context.

Main St Port Chester mid '70's

White Plains, May 17, 1969 County Optical at Post Rd and Lexington Ave

12.24.66 Rye Poningoe Hook and Ladder Seagrave wooden aerial

When I was there we had 2 sections that forced the comparison:
1) Extrication. FDNY was just adding tools to ladder companies so they wanted to review procedures that some of the FDNY LT's had not practiced since probie school 10-15 years prior. So we di side by side cars. They worked on basic door pops, while the instructors told us to do what ever we wanted as they new we all did more extrication than any of the instructors. So we flipped one car on its roof & another on its side and had fun.
2) Floor above victim search in a tenement. This was EXCELLENT. 3 member teams sent to search for up to 6 members of a family missing on the floor above. 20 teams (15 FDNY teams, 5 "upstate teams), I was teamed with 2 members from Illion, NY. The apt. we searched was fully furnished, including bedding and clothing and empty bottles on the table. The walls were only 1/2 height and the instructors had platforms above so they could see & film our searches. at about the 10 minute mark the radio would advise that the engine on the fire floor lost water and we needed to get out. As we were evacuating we heard a pass alarm from the back of the apt. (we were previously advised that the OV from another truck was back there). We had another 3 minutes to find him and get out before the apt. "flashed".
What was most interesting as we watched the 20 teams on video we found the "Upstate" teams averaged finding 3 of the victims and the OV, plus the team got out before the apt. flashed. The FDNY teams found all 6 victims and the OV, but all 15 search teams and all victims were killed when the apt flashed.

Thanks, Snotty, I knew somebody out there would bring up Education in The Fire Service. Way back when, before there was a FLIP, or for that matter, any formal education (except FDNY's Academy) there was a number of individuals who demanded education. My father went to the Delehanty Institute in NYC ni the late '50s. Then a new concept opened in Mount Vernon in about 1958. Imagine a course for firefighters taught by Manny Fried, FDNY who wrote the book on strategy and tactics.
The "nob" was then passed to guys like DC Oreste Spallone and Capt Seely Burigo who made Fire Science an Associate Degree course. Our education was now "official." We weren't done six or eight of us persuaded Mercy College to offer a BS Degree based on John Jay's curriculum and in 1977, I was proud to be in the first graduating class with a BS in Fire Science. Meanwhile, Doc Kiernan and a few Chiefs were working on a Career Chiefs Academy for new firefighters, then FLSS for new officers which was Statewide and Required.
Now, instead of taking 25 guys and burning things down (we called it "building a parking lot"), we can now take 150 guys, fighting a fire in a organized manner, and leaving fire buildings bruised but still standing. We also have better accountability, better equipment, and special teams like Hazmat, Tech Rescue, etc.
So what's my point in all of this? I sometimes hear of the new generation pointing fingers at prior generations saying today's way is better. Sure, it's better, but the new generation didn't make it better. It took a lot of work on the part of older generations to develop these innovations and hand them to today's firefighters.
You don't have to tell the old guys that they were doing things screwed up. They know that. That's why they changed things. Now, new generation, it's your turn to "take the nob." If you don't like something
change it, but remember, these things take time.
Oh, by the way, if you happen to run into an old guy, just tell him "thanks."

Photos from Fairview FD

State law is silent on who provides law enforcement, other than the requirement to have law enforcement, so village town, county (which includes Sheriff) or State is acceptable.
State law specifically prohibits county fire. In fact in the 1980's they had to pass laws to allow counties to run hazmat teams and in the 1990's to run USAR teams.

Hard to understand your question? Excluding body/cab avoidance, our tower can be extended to full extension for all 360 degrees of rotation so long as the outriggers are fully deployed. Now if you're asking about extending the bucket without deploying the outriggers over the centerline of the truck.. At what elevation? And acceptable to who? Jacks stabbed down or stowed?

1. Garner was not put in a "choke hold." That terminology is only used by the lying, sensationalizing media. He was put in a "carotid neck hold", which many police officers are trained in. The neck hold does NOT "choke" the suspect or restrict the airway at all. The neck hold is an alternative to using a baton or punching a resisting suspect and it has prevented thousands of injuries to suspects and officers.
2. Garner was morbidly obese and had asthma. He may have been on drugs. He overstressed his body by resisting arrest and fighting with the police. THAT caused him to suffer a heart attack, not anything the officer did.
3. He kept repeating "I can't breath" because he was having a heart attack, not because of anything the officer did.
The media is sleazy. They will change facts, omit facts, and outright LIE to sensationalize stories like this. Look at all the omissions and lies they initially made in the Trayvon Martin case. It's almost like they are trying to incite race riots and violence against the police.

Sage Vigiles started this through Incident Alerts, and do not know how to post link to actual article in Daily News (could not get full link name). Rookie Officer Melvin Santiago, fresh out of the academy in December, was executed by a gunman who "wanted to be famous" and lay in wait for the responding officers. The sub-human what's-his-name was wanted for a previous murder, and his partner in that crime is still on the loose - do not know if he has the same mentality.
Our sincere prayers, condolences and sympathy go to the young officer's family, friends and fellow officers as they grieve this senseless act of murder, and hope they find strength and comfort some way. He was only 23 and did not deserve anything like this from that dirt bag, who was killed by returning police gunfire. Hope they get the other suspect he was earlier teamed with very, very soon. - update: They picked up the other suspect in the earlier homicide investigation on Monday. -
Prayers and thoughts also go to Officer Santiago's partner, Officer Ismael Martinez, as he tries to mentally recover and deal with what happened to him and his partner - no one should have to go through that. Ever.

The first time you treat a technical rescue, or any function we perform, as not a big deal, watch it become one. Nice job.

So some of you know I've moved down to Virginia for a new job, and I've started volunteering with Company 27 in Prince George's County, MD. I just wanted to share an "interesting" rescue we had yesterday. Probably not a big deal to a lot of the more experienced people on here, but for me, as someone very inexperienced in technical rescue, I thought it might be worth sharing.
Engine 829 (Silver Hills), Rescue-Engine 827 (Morningside), Medic 829, Ambulance 829, Battalion Chief 883 and the Southern EMS Duty Officer were dispatched to the 3400 block of Curtis drive for a reported PIA with entrapment. E829 was first due and confirmed that a minivan had driven into a guard shack and that the security guard was pinned under the van. RE-827 arrived as the first due special service. Rescue Squad 842 was also requested as part of the County Technical Rescue Team.
Our initial plan (not being able to see the scene) was to use a Hurst spreader plate to lift the car off the guard and drag him out (this worked for the company a few months ago when a PGPD Officer was trapped under a car on the highway.) Upon arriving we realized the security guard was not completely pinned by the car, an air conditioning unit and filing cabinet had created a small void space that held the car up and protected him from being completely crushed. We also realized we had no room to use the spreaders and our plan became to turn the windows into doors on the "B" and "D" sides of the shack (assuming the van entered in side "A") and then use airbags to lift the vehicle off the patient and let the medics drag him out of the "C" side that was non-load bearing. RS442 arrived and shored the "D" side with the Rescue-42 jack system, and then ultimately it was decided to use another Rescue-42 jack to lift the car off the patient. Patient transported with serious but non-life threatening injuries.
Again, for those of you more well versed in technical rescue, this is probably a pretty minor incident, but for for it was a pretty interesting experience and a good intro to how things are done in PG County. Despite all the company rivalry that's present down here, when things like this happen everyone (career, volunteer, PD, different companies, etc) all worked and communicated extremely well together. The way it should be.
Some photos from the scene:
(Note: All photos are from the Morningside Volunteer Fire Department and/or the Prince George's County Police PIO's social media pages)
View from the D-Side

View from the C-Side

View of the void space created by the A/C unit and the filing cabinet.

NBC Washington: Security Guard Rescued After Van Plows into Booth

Goons? Blimp uniforms? Didn't have the guts to admit it? What's your problem with the police? They're doing a tough job under miserable conditions and you're calling them goons? That's just messed up!
I saw another video on the news this morning about some crazy carjacker in Colorado being taken down on the highway by a cop who used the same technique to bring the guy down - arm around the neck. There are not a lot of other/better options to take down a guy especially one who's 6'5 and 300+ pounds without using significant force (like taking out a knee or two). Martial artists learn that where the head goes the body follows so here we are.......

I knew cortlandts number was out of place, didn't know about the va. Thanks for the info. It's great to have seasoned vets such as yourself around to get some facts. Thanks again.

Mt Vernon Hospital got out of the biz 20 years before we wrote the number system. Cortlandt Vac was started after the numbering system, that's why its not in the alphabetical order. Note: I say we, because it was written by a small committee and it was 1st written on my PC.
And Montrose VA was added to the municipal/commercial numbers 30's & 40's since it clearly was not a volunteer agency (50's - 80's)

The communities that contract for service or having an independent fly car were issued numbers in the 30's:
30 - New Rochelle
31 - White Plains
32 - Mt Vernon
33 - Yonkers
34 - Yorktown Medic
35 - Cortlandt Medic
36 - Briarcliff/Croton Medic
37 - Mt Pleasant Medic
38 - Pelham Medic
39 - Peekskill Medic
40's were used for commercial services.
I do not remember if there was a 71,
But Mt. Vernon has never had a VAC. They have had: Transcare, Empress, Abbey Richmond, AA, Affiliated and before that Mt Vernon Fire Dept and before that Mt Vernon Hospital ran it.

They quit! Why?
1. Last time I checked this was a team sport! The success of an operation cannot and should not be determined by the actions of the few (or the individual). When a member constantly trains and studies, but is surrounded by novices who can't perform simple functions, he (or she) will be discouraged. It is hard to be proud of or confident in your organization or your team when you know exactly what needs to be done on the fireground and are prepared for every emergency, but everyone else doesn't. It is discouraging to consistently do your job exactly by the book and have every operation fail because no one else read it.
2. It is dangerous! To be a knowledgeable and aggressive firefighter is a good thing. However, when an individual is experience and talented but surrounded by novices, who can you count on to come to your aid when the s*** hits the fan. Instead, it hampers your ability because you have to be overcautious since no one else can keep up (or get scared) and no one can get you out should you get into trouble (it happens to the best of us!).
3. Frustration! It gets tiring to know exactly what needs to be done to resolve and incident but have other people consistently screw things up! You get tired of having ceilings pulled down on you; you get tired of waiting for water because your CPO can figure out how to pull the right levers; you get tired of having rooms flash when you are in them because your outside vent team doesn't know how to properly vent horizontally and introduces too much oxygen to the fire; you get tired of having no back-up man on the knob because the guy behind you couldn't find his gloves; you get tired of telling your crew to pull a 2 1/2 with a smooth bore and getting an 1 3/4 with a fog tip! After a while you just realize that they don't care and that you don't want to be a part of them anymore.
4. Ostracization! When you are part of the small minority that actually cares about training, firematics, and performace, but 46 of the other 50 members of the organization only care about parades and pancake dinners, then you become the a******! You are the guy who is always critiquing everyone; you are the guy who is always telling people how to improve; and you are the guy who takes things too seriously (after all "We are just volunteers!"). So even though all you want to do is teach others and improve the effectiveness of your department, you are always the a****** who is ruining the fork and knifers' good time and telling them that they are doing it wrong! So instead of moving up because you are the most well-trained, you are voted out and replaced with the head clown in the popularity contest that they call an election because everyone loves him!
Thats why they quit...

My original reply was about the posts that came after the pubic remark.
That is the point, we don't know. Based on the quality of the news reporting we will probably never know. However to assume that the building burned down because of something the volunteers did or did not sue is every bit as ad as praising them for loosing a building. As for watching the building burn down, the only way to stop that would be to keep your eyes closed at all exterior operations. Are there times when some IC's make a fire exterior that should be handled interior, absolutely, but we have no way of knowing from ths one article if that was the case.
There is nothing wrong with parades or social functions, as long as they are secondary to fire operations. IF your fire department has more classes of membership that are not responders than they do for actual active firefighters something may be wrong. However this is the way departments were organized way back when. I had to research my old department's charter once for a class, I found a short typed document from the state that said the department was a fire department located in the town and then went on to list the activities it could participate in, like raffles, fundraisers, carnivals, games of chance, ect. No where did it actually authorize us to fight fires. Now I like to think that is because it was taken for granted that that is what a fire department does, but it was still kind of odd to see the way it was written down.
I have had some similar conversations right in my own state. I have no problem with elections as long as there are more qualifications than a pulse to hold office. I was just talking the other day with a friend who is an EMS chief in NJ. She is trying to loosen up some restrictions on who can serve as Chief because of an odd conflict in between the number of officers and the requirements to have held lower ofices. Basically unless everyone moves up regardless of qualifications, nobody will ever be able to replace her as Chief. I have seen departments that put in lots of training requirements and then end up with no one who can meet them. So one has to strike a sensible balance.

One thing you failed to mention in your post (unless I missed it) is that you can be the most highly trained, competent firefighter in the business, yet if you cannot work with others, your completely useless to the fire service.

One: They hang tough, stand firm and do their jobs, steadfastly working to build a better department from within, one more concerned with firematics than social activities
Two: They move on to another department more in tune with their own personal training and duty philosophies and thereafter they flourish
Three; They tuck their tails between their legs and quit