sueg

Bragging about multiple failures doesn't advance the cause of the fire service. As people have pointed out the weaknesses in the video, the same can be done from your statement.
1. Responding with inadequate personnel (NFPA 1720, OSHA, and probably SOP)
2. No IC, no safety officer, no 2 out and no 2 in.
3. Acceptance of these willful violations because of a positive outcome.
4. Failure to address the inadequate personnel response.
5. What about searches (primary and secondary)?
The video is a failure on many levels and I'm shocked that the department allowed it to be posted. And I'm sure by now they know it's here too.
Let's not promote our failures. Let's try to improve and raise the bar so stories like these become a thing of the past.

I miss the old days of GOOD conversation, discussion and the occasional spirited debate. We all may never have agreed on everything, but it was always good to see each side's perspective.
A lot of what I learned on here has helped me over the years as a fireman and as a Chief Officer. It's too bad coming here for knowledgeable discussions has been replaced by generally useless posts about fire trucks, fire shows and pointless one-upping/finger-pointing.
I admit I used to post more often, but between being banned for a while, accused of stuff I didn't do, speaking my mind and hurting peoples' feelings and yes, being told I shouldn't post on here by my job, I have stepped back.
It would be nice to see things get back to the old here...

You have a good point. All those members have made great contributions to this forum. Some continue to make great contributions to this forum. Many members have been highlighted via our "Member Of The Month" program. We'll figure out a way to recognize them permanently. The "Top Ten Posters" are computer generated based on specific criteria described above.
alsfirefighter was never banned. helicopper left the forum voluntarily. NY10570 is deceased. Please get your facts straight before you post items that damages this forum. Members who assume they are banned due to difficulties logging in are encouraged to contact me anytime at seth@emtbravo.com to resolve any issues.
Your PM access should be fixed. It appears a setting got stuck when you switched from staff to regular member. Please advise. I didn't even know the ticket system was still working.....if you or any other members has issues with using the forum please email me anytime at seth@emtbravo.com

Don't worry, there's no secret clubhouse or discount card that comes with being a "Hall of Famer," that and 2 bucks will get me a cup of coffee at Dunkin' Donuts. Besides, apparently being in the top 10 means you don't get Private Messaging abilities anymore...

I saw this story recently and had to wonder, while I admit they seem to have found a niche market in EMS, is this really the sort of thing we need to be doing? I remember (way back when) in my initial EMT class discussions on being sensitive to such concerns as part of the medical ethics section of the class. I have to wonder if being there to serve only a specific subset of a specific isolated community is in keeping with the idea of EMT's being there to help anyone who needs our help. I have to wonder if this isn't going backwards, just a bit.
The female crew of Orthodox Jewish EMTs was created to serve Hasidic women uncomfortable with male EMTs in situations such as child birth

Just want to take a moment to say

HAPPY 238th BIRTHDAY AMERICA!!!
and post this reminder of what today is really all about:
IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

He has been found.
I believe he was in the Maryknoll vicinity.

This article speaks for itself, so I'll just let it.....

http://www.backstepfirefighter.com/2...-dave-leblanc/

There are plenty of volly chiefs who are certified beyond the credentials that you specify. There are plenty who aren't. There are also plenty of career chiefs that litter suburbia with the minimum certifications required to attain the position, who have been placed there through political influence and have no business commanding a girl scout troop selling cookies let alone let alone a fire-rescue response. Your post seems to be more pointed towards a vollie vs. career discussion rather than actually having data to support whether or not volunteer chiefs in a particular municipality have the appropriate certifications to attend a training event that could potentially improve the outcome of an emergency that may occur in their first due response area.

The wayward K9 officer has been located!!!!!! He is safe and back with his handler.

There is more to the Highland Lowes story. I don't have all the details, but it the major ones are Lowes Corporate policy is no fliers, for anything, period.
The Highland Lowes Manager has pledged support to the search teams, offering gloves, boots, a canopy, and allowing fliers to be distributed on the grounds, and has been in contact with the searchers on a several times per day basis.

June 17, 1972
Fire Lieutenant John E. Hanbury, 46 Ladder 13
Fire Lieutenant Thomas J. Carroll, 52 Engine 32
Firefighter Richard B. Magee, 39 Engine 33
Firefighter Joseph F. Boucher, 28 Engine 22
Firefighter Paul J. Murphy, 36 Engine 32 Firefighter John J. Jameson, 52 Engine 22
Firefighter Charles E. Dolan, 47 Ladder 13
Firefighter Joseph P. Saniuk, 47 Ladder 13
Firefighter Thomas W. Beckwith, 35 Engine 32
170 Commonwealth Avenue, 4 alarms Box 1571, (Dartmouth & Newbury Streets) “The Vendome Hotel Fire”
These nine members died when a rear portion of the Hotel Vendome, 170 Commonwealth Avenue which was under renovation collapsed without any warning. The fire was under control and firefighters were overhauling. Several other members were injured. It took over 10 hours to remove all the firefighters; The Maxim ladder truck of Ladder Co. 15 was extensively damaged also. 4 alarms Box 1571, Lieutenant Hanbury had 23 years, Lieutenant Carroll had 27 years, Firefighter Dolan had 25 years, Firefighter Saniuk had 24 years, Firefighter Jameson had 21 years, Firefighter Beckwith had 6 years, Firefighter Murphy had 5 years, Firefighter Magee had 4 years and Firefighter Boucher had 19 months of service. The alarms were sounded at 1435 hours at 1435 hours, the Working Fire was ordered at 1444 hours, the 2nd alarm at 1446 hours, the 3rd alarm at 1502 hours and the 4th alarm at 1506 hours. Two extra engines were ordered at 1552 hours and the collapse occurred at 1728 hours.

Never grow complacent. Keep learning. The only constant is change. Even the best tactics and procedures need to be reevaluated when the community changes.

Rest in Peace Brothers. We will not forget your sacrifice!



This video is from the National Fallen Firefighters Foundation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqiRN9rygoI&feature=youtu.be
It is an excellent look at complacency, traditions, change and leadership.
NEVER FORGET!

Children SHOULD be safe in school, but that's not the world we live in. You know what stops a shooter really effectively? .40cal hollow points to center mass coming from those guys in the blue suits wearing the shiny metal thing on their chest.
We keep coming up with more and more excuses NOT to have cops (or at the VERY least, well-trained armed guards) in every single school in America.

Honestly I don't see the problem with this, it's not like they are trying to mitigate the situation or take down the gunman. Sure doors can be breached, but most gunman aren't carrying around forcible entry tools with them just multiple weapons and ammo. These sickos are trying to inflict maximum damage in minimal time because they know sooner than later there will be armed response, something like this that slows them down could make them move on to try and find another target or buy precious time while law enforcement is en route in order to save lives. It's not like these people think they have found a solution to school shootings. Plenty of times in these instances you hear about teachers and students barricading themselves inside classrooms, this is just another method to accomplish just that. Why bash it if it could save lives? If your child was stuck in that room would you prefer if the teacher was just trying to hold the door shut from the inside or if they actually had a device like this to better accomplish the same task?
On top of all this, when is the national news media going to stop plastering these killers faces all over the place granting them their fifteen minutes of fame? It only further emboldens others to commit similar acts. Knowing they will achieve some infamy and exposure as they escape their own perceived notions of insignificance is a lot of what drives these lunatics. The media is more concerned with selling papers than they are with common sense and the safety of the public.

Not going to question your opinion but would you please elaborate with some details for everyone why you feel that the information is not accurate. Do you have any addition incident details, observations or information that you can share?

Thoughts and prayers are with the injured FF, fellow crew, and family.

Does anyone have any updates?

From: http://www.firefighterclosecalls.com/news/fullstory/newsid/208879

very nice editorial
http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20140611/NEWS/406110327

The answer to your question is dependent upon 3 factors
1. Length of hose - which in the formula is L and usually expressed in 100' lengths - so in your example it is 2
2. The diameter of the hose and the associated coefficient 1-3/4" hose has a coefficient of 15.5
3. The GPM Flow desired - The more water, the higher the friction loss. For your question, let's assume 175 GPM - which is expressed in the formula as Q2 (squared)
The formula for friction loss is FL = C x (Q)2 x L
Friction loss for your question is expressed below:
FL= 15.5 * 2* (1.75)2

FL=15.5 x 2 x 3.06
FL= 94.86
Therefore given that you are using a standard fog nozzle which requires 100 PSI at the tip (some work at 75) the Engine Pressure required to obtain the required 175 GPM Flow would be 195PSI.
If you are operating from a hydrant this is not a problem. However if you are working from a tank or draft, remember that the efficiency of a centrifugal pump decreases as pressure goes up. Look at the test plate on your pup panel, at 200 PSI the pumps capacity is reduced 70% so if you have a 1500 GPM pump, at 200 PSI capacity is reduced to 1050 GPM. Similarly if you have a 1000 GPM rated pump, at 200 PSI the capacity is reduced to 700 GPM.
Finally - good planning will help reduce the required pressure and increase the Engine Pressure required. Some ideas include:
Changing to a Solid Bore Nozzle. These nozzles require only 50 PSI at the tip to deliver the required flow so swapping out nozzles would reduce the Engine pressure required to 150PSI increasing the capacity of the pump to 100%.
Changing out the first two lengths of hose to 2-1/2" Diameter hose which has a lower coefficient (2) would also reduce the required engine pressure, and provide the interior companies with the comfort of the 1-3/4" hose and Fog Nozzle.
FL = C x (Q)2 x L / 100
For 2-1/2" Hose the Friction Loss would be:
2 x 1.752x 1 or 6 PSI per 100 Feet
As we determined above the Friction Loss for 1-3/4" hose is about 48 PSI so by changing out 100' of 1-3/4" for 2-1/2" at the truck would reduce the engine pressure required for the desired flow of 175 GPM to 100 PSI at the nozzle, + 54 PSI friction Loss which would result in an Engine pressure requirement of 154 PSI. Change to solid bore and you can bring it down to 100 PSI.
Knowing these options is the difference between a knob turner and puller and a good MPO.
I hope that answered your questions. I will come back to this forum if you have any more.
One last thing. After 40 years as a volunteer, in a very busy department, I would never expect that for the 1 or 2% of the time knowing these formulas is required the MPO would go through these calculations. But they must be aware that if you needed to add an extra 100' of hose to your example, the engine pressure would be 300 and that becomes very dangerous as you are approaching hose test burst strength and exceeding it with the resulting water hammer resulting from opening and closing the nozzle any other way but VERY slowly which never happens on the fire ground.

Two of my uncles came ashore in France on D-Day, one at Utah beach and one at Omaha. Both made it through unscathed. My father came over about a month later and along with my uncles that were already there joined in the liberation of France. A fourth uncle had been pretty severely wounded earlier in 1944 by a sniper at Anzio in Italy and had been sent home while a fifth was out in the Pacific preparing to invade the Japanese held island of Saipan about a week later.
By a twist of fate shortly after my father arrived in France he ran into one of my uncles as their units crossed paths. My uncle's unit was on their way back from the front as my father's unit was moving up to it. They were able to spend some time together and wish each other well but like most families none of them would see each other again until wars end some 10 months later.
D-Day June 6, 1944 remains the greatest seaborne invasion in history, and an achievement without equal. I can only stand in awe of the tremendous courage, fortitude and perseverance of not only my father and his brothers, but of all of those men of the "greatest generation" who, by their blood and sacrifice, fought and won the most destructive, costly and horrendous war in all of human history. They earned us the freedom we enjoy today so to all of them, living and dead, I say most sincerely...THANK YOU!!
God Bless America!.

MY grandfather and his brother came ashore and most likely followed the same path as PCFD ENG58's dad...
Another Great Uncle had been part of the liberation of Rome the day before....had been with the OSS and was fighting in Italy before the Allies even landed there.

My dad did it 75th In 281-h Omaha beach ,Bastone,Ardan Forest, Battle of the Bulge, Silver Star, 2 purple harts . 18 years old and kicked some ass !

70 years ago tonight thousands of brave men loaded up on planes, gliders, and ships for the greatest invasion ever. Many never made it home. The courage it must of taken is mind boggling to me.

Many excellent points in David Rhodes blog. This is well worth the time to review his short messages. Thanks Cogs.