JM15

FDNY does not regularly do this. The FDNY prides itself on aggressive interior attack.
As far as the discussion goes, making conditions more tenable sounds great except, 75% of fire victims die from smoke inhalation. Flowing water through a window to make conditions more "tenable" for firefighters to enter won't save victims. Getting them out of the building will. Since when does a firefighter put the rescue of a civilian at the bottom of the list? The training of firefighters is about developing skills. Firefighters are taught to put out fires from the interior advancing through a structure a certain way. These are just the basics and the basics take time and is not something that is taught in 5 minutes. Firefighters who have battled fires from the inside learn from experience and repetition how to do it better and more effective which allows firefighters to have the skill levels to extinguish fires from inside. When a firefighter shoots a stream through a window all of the skill development is over. There is no skill level to that and only lowers our skills and is a fire service failure. Another example of fire service failure is that we still have firefighters who cannot operate a 2.5 inch line due to poor technique and education.
"A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY
http://www.firehouse.com/blog/10631380/transitional-attack-is-whack

Thankfully for the residents of Greene County...the Roto-Ray has finally arrived.....Hopefully the rest of the truck serves them well too.....

Then you heard wrong. The new Tahoe went into service last week as car 2441. The old 2441 became Utility 182 and is now a Somers Fire District vehicle......

There were talks of a regionalized dispatch center for the greater Danbury area, however, most of the local fiefdo- I mean towns wanted to maintain local control of their 1 dispatcher per shift...
Besides, the way Danbury went about their process was all wrong. Contract dispatchers are not the answer, civil service employees under a city 911 office would have been much better quality than what they have so far.

This vehicle is still not in service......

typing in all caps on the internet is considered rude and it means the poster is yelling....

You're gonna hear far worse in the years to come, one day it's going to be "wow, Major Department Still Cares About Hiring Standards", or "Wow, Major Department Still Goes INSIDE to Fight Fires"

New Engine 22:

Hope you weren't driving...

Well since fires are down and most of our runs are EMS or false alarms why don't more departments just send a company in an SUV to everything? Wouldn't that save time and money? :rolleyes:

Do we owe the public the truth about their fire depts. ability to handle a structure fire? What I mean by that is we ask the taxpayers for money to run the dept, yet in truth, on any given day at any given time, it takes more than THAT dept to control the situation. Forget career / volunteer bs, this is across the board. This is not about the big one or needing a tanker/tender shuttle operation, this is the room and contents, fire that your patch on your sleeve proudly says WE CAN HANDLE.
Mutual aid to cover the empty fire houses, no problem.
Why is it the neighboring taxpayers responsibility to send its tax dollar funded dept to assist with your BASIC fire.
something is wrong here, and the longer we put our heads in the sand......................

It seems like everyone is ignoring the side-by-side example of a consolidated volunteer department that sits right next door to the town in which this fire occurred. The town of Somers and the Town of Lewisboro have very similar constructs but have gone in opposite directions in terms of a consolidated department vs individual departments. Somers is about the same size as the Town of Lewisboro. They have 4 fire houses spread across town but operate as one department, with one chain of command, one set of SOPs, one fire district and consolidated resources. Conversely, in the Town of Lewisboro, they have the Golden's Bridge Fire Department, the South Salem Fire Department, and the Vista Fire Department (and the Lewisboro Ambulance Corps). Each of these departments are completely independent of one another and have their own chain of command, separate Fire District, separate equipment and their own set of SOGs.
In my opinion the consolidated volunteer department makes more sense for the following reasons:
The town of Lewisboro has 3 Mid-Heavy Rescue Units (Counting Rescue 24 may it rest in peace)...All of NYC has 5! The town of Lewisboro has 7+ Chief Vehicles. Each department in Lewisboro has at least 2 "Class A" engines so that they can stay in service when one goes out for maintenance. 90% of the time each engine rolls without a full crew anyway (thats if they can even get two engines out the door) Shortage of Officers. When I joined the fire service 10 years ago Vista Fire Department had 3 chiefs and a multiple captains, Lieutenants and Foremen, etc...now they are down to 3 officers (a chief, a captain, and a lieutenant). I believe that GBFD currently operates with two of their Lt. positions vacant. Moreover, many departments' by-laws are constantly being set aside to allow people who don't meet the professional qualifications to hold office. In many instances, members are being promoted to officer positions after being a member for only a year and having never been first-due to a car fire let alone a structure fire. What it all comes down to here is that you are ultimately going to get the same resources to a fire in both towns. In Somers you will probably get 20-30 members town-wide who will all respond to a daytime incident. In Lewisboro, you will get 10 members from the "host" department and 5-6 from each of the other 2 departments in town via mutual aid.
The differences however are major!
There will be a delay in resources because you have to wait for the host department to get on scene to dispatch mutual aid...they will have to operate with 4-6 people for at least the first 10-15 minutes until mutual aid can respond to their firehouses and then to the scene. There will be way too many Chiefs on scene because there will be 3 from each of the other departments in town...and not enough indians because anyone who is even remotely good will be a chief already (side note...I think Croton Falls had command on this last Goldens Bridge fire and at their firehouse fire last year). The manpower from the three independent departments will be less familiar with the equipment and personnel from the other departments than that of the one consolidated department. 3 sets of SOGs vs one consolidated set. I thought the side-by-side comparison may help clear up the confusion that a consolidated department would have to be paid. The Town of Somers could probably have ended up as the Granite Springs, Amawalk, Lincoldale, and Town of Somers fire departments had they wanted to go that route...for all I know they may have been at some point way back when.

Yeah, I'm not sure what all the distress is about. They called a lot of resources at a time when that seemed like the right choice and it worked out. Tough weather, tough geography and a tough time of day. I'm not sure why we latched on to the, "how many tankers" thing....
....call'em, you can always send'em back.
I will make one comment....I saw a couple of photos of guys walking around on a peaked roof, covered in a foot of snow....and I'm moved to ask: Why? Was there an urgent need for verticle ventilation?

I was on scene. In the beginning when lines were getting stretched there was absolutely no one there. Interior crews stretched (2) 2.5's through the snow. Then the one I was on went into the basement that had heavy fire and full of "junk" , crews went through multiple bottles until additional resources arrived. I am not sure if many of the 8 or 11 tankers that were called actually dumped water. The additional alarms in essence were called for manpower but based on the location and the pre-planned run cards were tanker heavy.

Have to agree with "16fire5" on the extinguishment of wind driven fires. Was 1st due engine at a high-rise MD fire on Broadway, opposite the Lincoln Center plaza. Fire was on the 20th(?) floor in an apt. facing the west (Hudson River), started by a halogen torchire lamp, that fell on the bed. The maid opened all the windows to "get the bad smoke out";called bldg. maintenance; and wheeled the occupant (Lionel Hampton, the jazz musician) out,leaving the apt door open.Eventually the concierge called 911. My engine company was across the street on an EMS run, in a hotel, babysitting a dead body awaiting PD,when my MPO reported fire out the windows across the street from us. We ended up 2nd due, and stretched a 2nd standpipe line down the hall. The truck tried to breach a wall from the adjoining apt., with no luck. Anyway, it went to 5 alarms, with the 1st alarm engines getting 2nd degree burns. The 4th and 5th alarm engines, down from Harlem, busted our chops about the ghetto guys putting out our fire, but truth be told- they could only advance their line as fast as the contents burned away. You cannot put out a wind-driven fire if you are coming at it from the downwind side. The KO curtain /fire blanket would have been put to good use at that fire, but it was not yet in our "toolbox" of equipment/tactics. Sorry for the long-winded tale from an old retired guy! Still miss "the job" every day!

Long winded tail nothing! We (guys on the job in the last decade + need to hear your stories). This is a key training example in the Wind Driven Fire discussion. Thanks for sharing.

+1 to this. SOP's have the control man flush out the standpipe before hooking-up. However....you can't flush 20 foors worth of water (or 40, 50, ect) and something could very well come through the line and clog at the tip. However, you're much better off with a 1 1/8th smooth bore tip, both for lower propensity to clog and for it's superior penetration ability.
My personal belief is.....automatic/fog nozzles have no place in interior structural firefighting. They have a multitude of applications in brush, rubbish, decon, utility emergencies, exterior and many others....but a straight up house or apt. fire.....i'll take the smooth bore.

As always Bnechis with the factual, important information. I had no idea that a training facility can improve an ISO rating...

When I was in company it was 1 3/4" hose. Now many departments are going with single-jacketed 2" hose. It's worth trying...

From the start it was stated that the METU was not to be used for any purpose other than evacuating a nursing home or hospital. So your statement can't be correct since that is the original intent. You seem very upset about this situation and "wasted tax dollars" but your location is listed as Rhode Island so what difference to you does it make if Westchester County's METU went?
There appears to be no actual plan for the unit (that I am aware of). I know if needed the members of the Technical Rescue Team are supposed to drive it and the facilities personnel would ride to handle medical care on board (Nurses, doctors etc.) I was hoping the other night would be a situation for the Commissioner to special call this resource, especially since the Tech Rescue team had members in/responding to the building for other special equipment.

The other hose discussion got me thinking... Plus we need some good discussions on here.
What is your standpipe equipment compliment?
Hose?
Nozzle?
I have seen a few different methods.

This is exactly the response I was hoping to get.. Great information thanks for sharing Chief!
When you say attack hose what size are you referring to?

In addition to 3 lengths of attack hose (with a 4th as an option for some buildings with long stretches) Yonkers would often carry an extra wheel and pipe wrench in case the wheel was missing or the operating stem rounded. E306 carried a male NPT to 2 1/2" NY Corp. nipple since often the brass fittings were stolen. We made up a short length of 2 1/2" hose with a 2 1/2" by two 1 1/2" wye so we could flow water immediately, bleed the garbage out the open side of the wye and then be ready to quarter turn the valve to the attack hose once the officer called for water.
The nozzle was a smooth bore 15/16" tip.

ok, Maybe in the writers area or mind the fire service is alive and vibrant. From what I see, the fire service is in deep trouble. Volunteer membership is declining, career depts. are being cut to the bone, or are stagnant.
I believe todays firefighters are much better trained, and are more dedicated than previous generations. But there are not enough of them to fill the voids, at least in our area. Due to the increase in call volume, training, state and federal mandates, the fire service is finding itself hard pressed to keep up with todays conditions. We have too many Commissioners, Chiefs, and elected individuals, who are more worried about money and votes than fixing a broken system. A house fire today requires mutual aid. when there was more members in the dept. there was pride in taking care of your own business.
State and federal mandates, Bailout systems, 2 in 2 out, fast, NFPA, have been enacted to create a safer fire ground, But no more ff's to do the job. The patch on your uniform says XYZ fire dept, yet the truth is XYZ plus 5 surrounding depts. is what is needed for your average house fire. The writer doesn't like the bashing, but what is actually being bashed? the truth? The public is fed up with high taxes. Police depts. are consolidating, At some point, somehow the laws will have to change to allow fire depts. to do the same. Then and only then, at least in this area, will fd's be as alive and vibrant as the writer states.
This is just my opinion, let the bashing begin lol.

Yes heard they will be for a few days... Yonkers dispatch is down