Bottom of Da Hill

City of Newburgh's new pumper courtesy of Campbell Supply's Facebook
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More Chiefs then indians, no?
According to a source, 60 Control has steadily increased their workload almost 75% over the past decade - and hasn't increased their staffing.
It's a ticking time bomb and their "Director" has his hand on the detonator and the Commissioner does nothing about it.
Other than adding people in every unit except comms and buying millions of dollars worth of dust-collecting toys, what has changed for the better?!

Can someone explain to me how NYS OFPC Training hours work? I am being told there are 1500 hours allocated from OFPC to each county for "State OFPC " training, and when those are allocated, that's it. It seems to me that some counties have tons of "State OFPC" training opportunities (FF1, FF2, and all other OFPC classes) , and others, not so much. I am trying to separate truth from fiction.

Call me .....and I will call you.

Consolidation is all about getting the unions all exited about putting in more paid staff.

And let's not forget "Toxic" Hiring/ Promoting Practices within some Fire Departments! They both are a recipe for Disaster within the Fire Service as well as any Profession!

In service till about 1977, got to ride her a few times photo credit Frank Wegloski

Since when is discussing the lack of standards or a cohesive system "petty bickering"?

"Being realistic with resources" Is that people or equipment? And with the people, does certification, training and ability count in that? I wasn't there, but I often hear armchair Incident Commanders saying this department should have been there, instead of this one. Not this incident specifically, but any large scale incident. It seems, sometimes, departments have to be honest with what they are really sending for mutual aid. This is something I run into a lot. You might have a rig come pulling in with 5 guys, but only one can even wear an airpack, making it a one man crew. I've never worked with the fire departments listed on this incident, but could this be part of what went on?

What is important to remember is that six people died that night and that can't ever be reversed sadly. But, the response to the scene and how things were conducted afterwards showed how well a major MCI can be handled. However, there is a certain level of truth to claims that there should be a review of how mutual aid and resources are called upon. I understand that people really appreciate having 60 Control be there dispatching source, but shouldn't the question be asked, where is there boundary? Also, what about being realistic about resources. I know people might still have issues with career and volunteers mixing but to be honest when you need resources sometimes you got to go with that option. Also, geography plays part in this matter. It isn't realistic calling departments from literally miles away to go to the scene or standby when you have resources closer by. This isn't about being picked first in dodgeball or getting to say "we were there". That's foolish to think like that. This is just being realistic. The IC did a good job that night and those who were on the ground did a great job too. This issue shouldn't take away from their efforts. There is nothing wrong with just reviewing for next time and hoping that an incident like this won't happen again.

Barry - You continue to "Tell It Like It Is" (Until people who have the "Power To Initiate Change" put laws in place within New York State to force "Standardization" in Response, Personnel, and especially "TRAINING !!!" (for both the Career and Volunteer Firefighters) we will never have a common ground to work off of throughout Westchester County

I’m trying to learn more to be better prepared of the next MCI in Westchester.
Does 60 Control still have the prearrange run cards which I believe have spaces for your first 5 engines, ladders, tankers and rescues, and ect? Which the Chief the gives 60 Control on his wishes the Chief is the “AHJ”. If 60 Control did use the prearrange run card than there is no argument here. But if 60 Control did not follow the prearrange run cards then why? I believe that is a valid question to ask.
Making a decision on calling resources outside of the run cards is it made by the dispatch himself or dispatch supervisor at that time? I think a IC of a incident should know who make that call.
How offer does 60 Control make a department update the run cards? (Yearly)
Does 60 control share the run cards to different agencies so that they are aware that there resources can called to Fire Department XZY. Which can help a department be better prepared for an incident.
Thanks

Yes but in many other places that also have the same standards from one place to another.
Standards for response,
Standards for equipment
Standards for personnel
Standards for training.
You will never see a "system" here until everyone agrees to follow similar rules.

The bottom line is that the IC has the authority to request any resources he wants from the next town or the next county if he or she wants to.
Bitching about it here is just that, bitching. It doesn't accomplish anything.
Now I will say that a standard response matrix would benefit the county greatly and is used in many other places successfully. Instead Westchester has individual department run cards and there is no consistency or commonality.
Look at the MCI in Chicago at the airport for the plane with pressurization problems the other day. A level 1 MCI was declared sending a standard package of resources.
What do we have here in Westchester? NOTHING!
Fiefdoms and egos preventing any kind of system development!

Looks like a good job by the IC in what (hopefully) will be a once in a lifetime incident.
I hope Critical incident stress debriefing was offered to the first responders and I would hope Metro North would offer something to the passengers as well. By what I have read some very horrific images were witnessed by first responders and civilians.
Chiefs and commissioners...when you swore in the 18, 19 year old gung ho members they put their trust in you. Physically and mentally. So did their parents who probably signed "consent" forms. You don't want them resigning over this, leaving your organization and being forever "broken" over what they witnessed.
Good job guys.

not saying any thing abt being on the job.but what makes you think i am not?

there you go guys black and white.i believe port chester and tarrytown have the same complement of rigs 2 ladders 4 or 5 engines a rescue and all under 10.4 miles away so say what you want the truthe is the truthe.if your a dispatcher and you send your own dept witch is 10.4 miles away to relocate?

other depts also have a half of dozen engines and 2 trucks a rescue with suport equipment lots and lots of man power and tech training also.so why have a cad system? im not talking bad abt ossining at all but how bad the call was you would want sopport there ASAP.but i gues ossining is the answer to all in your mind. you ben in florida to long west has grown with training .but its ok that you dispatch your own dept to relocate 10.4 miles away?im glad my loved ones wernt on that train.greenville has a trained tech rescue team.you have no clue florida.

you may not agree with me and i dont care its my thoughts and i posted them you sound a little upset take a break.it is favoritism at best i hear alot of jobs getting dispatched in the county its out there just a matter of time when the bosses pick up on it.

the radio and dispatch# thats all.

well if your on there run card for back up then you should have ben dispatched to stand by at VFD.

my point the ego.s and power trips not that of the IC but at 60 controls discretion sending family and friends and to the dept they belong to.safety to FF.S and civilians comes first.

Bottom of Da Hill give it a rest already! You are just making yourself look even more and more clueless. No one agrees with you here (how can you not see that?), no one with any education will agree with you here, and no one wants to read any more of your posts trying to hijack and ruin this thread with your personally biased, absurd claims of favoritism. I'm starting to suspect you're just upset your department wasn't called. Again, wrong incident, wrong thread, and wrong time to be making such stupid claims.

"Bottom of Da Hill" - you keep accusing a dispatcher of just dispatching his department to an incident. Don't you think that he/she would have to answer to a Supervisor? How do you know someone didn't call on the phone and tell him/her who to send?
Do everyone a favor, STOP!!!! You are making your whole department look foolish,

Hey guys, I'm a member of the department. Yes there has been damage to the building, which is being addressed within the next few months. This damage to the building accrued when we let other departments train in the facility. None of the damage was reported to us. The damage was discovered later on, and with many departments training there it’s hard to place the blame. From here forward we no longer will let other department drill there, unless we have a crew of our own there supervising. We are one of the few to be lucky enough to have such a nice facility it’s sad that others did not respect it.

ok, Maybe in the writers area or mind the fire service is alive and vibrant. From what I see, the fire service is in deep trouble. Volunteer membership is declining, career depts. are being cut to the bone, or are stagnant.
I believe todays firefighters are much better trained, and are more dedicated than previous generations. But there are not enough of them to fill the voids, at least in our area. Due to the increase in call volume, training, state and federal mandates, the fire service is finding itself hard pressed to keep up with todays conditions. We have too many Commissioners, Chiefs, and elected individuals, who are more worried about money and votes than fixing a broken system. A house fire today requires mutual aid. when there was more members in the dept. there was pride in taking care of your own business.
State and federal mandates, Bailout systems, 2 in 2 out, fast, NFPA, have been enacted to create a safer fire ground, But no more ff's to do the job. The patch on your uniform says XYZ fire dept, yet the truth is XYZ plus 5 surrounding depts. is what is needed for your average house fire. The writer doesn't like the bashing, but what is actually being bashed? the truth? The public is fed up with high taxes. Police depts. are consolidating, At some point, somehow the laws will have to change to allow fire depts. to do the same. Then and only then, at least in this area, will fd's be as alive and vibrant as the writer states.
This is just my opinion, let the bashing begin lol.

Tragedy of this magnitude and people cry because they didn't get to move up to a different fire station.

Well all the departments you listed including Ossining are a 12-15 minute drive to Valhalla's station. It's not about speed and who is closest for relocations, it's how to balance all of the resources in the county. A relocation is not an emergency per se. It is better to skip over several departments so that wide gaps in coverage aren't created in the process. Hawthorne, Valhalla, North White Plains, Elmsford, Thornwood, and Briarcliff had units committed to this job during rush hour. Leaving TFD, SHFD, PHFD, WHFD, AFD, untouched meant that whichever company relocated to VFD would have had a full complement of second due departments nearby available to respond to another major incident.

West Harrison (3.5 Miles) , and Armonk (6.2 Miles) and White Plains (3.5 Miles) Ossining (10.4 Miles) Tarrytown (5.3 Miles) Sleepy Hollow (6.1 Miles) Purchase (5.4 Miles) Port Chester (9.9 miles)

The IC should have called a full alarm response from the city of White Plains. they are the closest fully staffed dept. Put your egos aside and think about the people on the train. This is not a dig at any of the 1st responders that were on scene, but if I was the IC I would want more then less on scene

No different then Greenville/Fairview/White Plains going to MT.Vernon on m/a when Yonkers and New Rochelle are right next door. Yes, personalities do come into play and whose family member or friends are working that tour. Call the closest and not the furthest. No rational in the other way of thinking. Let's put the safety of our Brother FFs and the Civilians first and not one's ego/feelings. Time to stop wanting to play in each others sandbox! Want to work in a busy Dept. then transfer for Christ sake! M/A should also be at the hosting Dept's IC request, and not at 60 Control's discretion. Who the hell are they anyway to determine who goes, you just send us who we request if it's possible.