fdalumnus

I wave seen similar, mostly because old rules do not adapt well to experienced members. In my old station drivers started on the Rescue (because it was the smallest) went through the two engines and ended up with the truck. In order to drive the engines you had to memorize nearly all the hydrants in the small district. This worked fairly well for years. This however could not adapt well to two situations:
 
A new member joins who had previously been a member of a neighboring department. That department was a frequent automatic aid department for water supply. So now you have a member who yesterday was your supply engine driver and now could not even drive your rescue, let alone an engine.
 
A member with experience from a career department (with multiple driving assignments) has no way to be fast tracked through the process so despite a couple of years driving at a truck company, he is not considered able to drive a truck, because he didn't drive both of the engines yet.
 
One senior member told me a story of being in driver training, and being strung along for what he thought was too long. He drove to calls but only with the Chief present. He pumped at calls and drills but still was not certified. Then one night a parade came up and he was the only driver there. The chief told him to drive to the parade. He said he couldn't as he had not been certified as a driver yet. He said he was certified that night, went to the parade and drove to calls for many years after that.
 
If I knew the secret to honoring our history while still adapting to various situations, I would probably be the fire king by now. Sometimes I think there may not be a way to do this at all. Too many personalities involved.

This is much more than a social media problem. In this case the message means more than where it is posted.

This is no different than when the Council of Mayors paid Tri-Data to say there was no increased cancer risk to Firefighters. In my city Tri-Data was considered to be the most amazing and knowledgeable and super fantastic fire experts that ever walked the earth. Then it came out that they simply do what they are paid to do. I never trust any study like this because I don't trust the research.  

Disgusting- were all brothers, regardless of race, color or creed.

 
They should start by explaining to them why they are so understaffed that they need 4 departments to put out a house fire. 

he's not a guy i would get along with. and he's an officer?
 
i was actually happy the other day when i read the article about the fdmv crew who bought an a/c unit for a person. finally some positive news. then this.
 
[shaking my head] 

Since I am not that well versed in the make up of the paid departments in Westchester, perhaps I could get some clarification from others more familiar with the make up of the various departments involved.
 
It was my understanding that of all the Westchester paid depts Yonkers has the most resources and personnel per apparatus than the other depts.  So, if they are one of your border depts wouldn't it be to your dept's and your citizens best interest to have them on your M/A list?
 
At this particular incident, travel times of your M/A units appears to be moot since the switch to exterior operations occurred 13 minutes after dispatch, 10 minutes after the incident commander declared the 10-75 and just 7 minutes after requesting the 2nd alarm.
 
My other question is how do Pelham and Pelham Manor provide M/A? Don't they both operate just 1+1 with minimal staffing?  When one provides an out of town engine and the other a ladder, do they then do automatic response to each others calls till the M/A is resolved? 
 
 

My thoughts exactly.   I am no expert on pump operations and the likes,  and I am sure its not the same amount of pressure as a pressure washer but its got to be close and can peel that paint off.   but hey its just a million dollars in tax payer money.  And who is on standby for all those tower ladders or does each FD out in LI have 2 or 3 ladders and 10 chiefs cars?   

FASNY paid an economic research and statistical analysis company to write a glowing report about the excellent services being provided by volunteer fire departments. It's questionable as to how they came up with the figures presented that represent the cost of replacing volunteer departments with career departments. The response time information for volunteer departments isn't specific (Are they referring to the time the 911 operator received the call until first unit *not a chief's car* arrives on the scene, or the time the first unit signs on the air responding until they arrive at the scene? Are they referring to response time for all calls, just fire calls, just non fire emergencies, just EMS?). The bottom line is people rely upon fire, rescue and EMS services to respond quickly, be properly staffed, trained and equipped. Seconds count, and it's far more likely for a 24 / 7 career department to be able to provide an appropriate response in an acceptable time frame than it is for  a department that relies upon volunteers who in most cases must respond from their home or their place of work, to the firehouse before they can gear up and respond with the necessary apparatus. I volunteered for 17 years and am very aware of how understaffed departments are during normal work hours from Monday to Friday and how difficult it is to get a sufficient number of personnel to get out of their beds in the middle of the night for a call when they must be up for work or school in a couple of hours. I worked alongside many dedicated, well trained volunteers during those years, but regardless of how dedicated they are, work, school and family have to come before being available to get trained (initially), maintain annual training requirements (courses and drills) as well as respond to calls. 

 
Totally false (except for them putting Batt 3 in service when one of the other Batt goes out of town).

Total BS.  We have a busy, large enough sandbox of our own to worry about.  
A battalion chief responds anytime more than one unit is toned out, In or Out of the city. Its basically the start of incident command and to protect the members.  So yes, any units out for a duration of time need to be replaced on recalls, including the chief.
When we receive a call for mutual aid, 9 times out of 10, we are requested to the scene.  Not just to cover the fire house.  Sometimes on arrival, the incident commander asks the chief for advice.  
 
So before you start spreading rumors, get the facts straight 
 
 

A classic case of personalities over principles
 

A classic case of personalities over principles
 

We have been told not to use brushes to wash the truck as it can harm the finish. What is the possibility that a master stream will damage the paint?

 
  I can certainly understand how you say that L.I. is fortunate with the members of the fire dept they have. Many of those workers are available due to their work schedules. In addition to that by virtue of the nature of their work, many must maintain some type of minimum fitness level, plus they are geared and trained to deal with various types of emergencies. Long Island is a very special place that has the fortunate option of having many of these NYC workers. They are a part of public servants assigned to work in the most populated city in the United States. Many serving it's citizens under difficult emergency circumstances.
 
 On the contrary, my own brother, a Retired Bridgeport Battalion Chief who rose through the ranks. He fought fires in the busiest companies, during that city's busiest decade for fire duty. When he retired he joined a local volunteer fire department here in Eastern, Ct. He lived right near the firehouse, was available 24/7 and willing to work and give his time. Plus he brought with him years of fire fighting experience from one of the busiest depts in CT. To me, this department had just "Won the Lottery". But that was not the case at all.
 
 Instead many, including the chief, felt threatened and did their best to get rid of him. He was told NOT to touch their Seagrave rearmount ladder. The same kind he had driven for many years as well as was assigned a Lt in charge of busiest ladder co in the city.
 
  One evening a member of the dept was giving a class on that ladder, except when it came time to get the ladder out of the bed, guess who had to show him how to do it. Another time when the ladder had been extended operating at a fire, the operator could not get it back down. It was first thought that there was a mechanical failure of the ladder that's why it wouldn't come down. Guess who was able to get that ladder down in a few short seconds. He was a hero that day, but shortly after he couldn't take it anymore and quit. I imagine most of Long Island does NOT have those kinds of problems.   

Too bad it was economically flaud study.
 
my favorite part is the claim that volunteers have increased statewide by 30,000 - 40,000. 

It's westchester....nuf said......

That makes zero sense. But it's motivated by politics, not common sense. 
 
Riddle me this. Why is it that departments think that one engine and one truck is enough manpower for an extra alarm? 
 
You're calling for more help. Why not call for ENOUGH help? 

I will be the first one to say that I don't really get wet downs. I am not sure about any formal department event that requires me to wear shorts and flipflops. Why do they always devolve into hose fights?
 
I thought wetting down a new ladder with master streams from other ladders was a nice touch, but there was at least one hand line that seemed to be doing nothing other than waiting for the inevitable water fight.
 
What are the historical roots of wetdowns anyway? Does anyone even remember anymore?
 
 

I hope it comes with shoe horns and a vat of Vaseline to squeeze it into HQ.  Meanwhile the fire houses are rotting away! What a waste.

Back in the day dedicated rescue rigs were needed to carry extrication equipment and other "rescue" tools.  How many remember the first generation Hurst tools and cutters?  A lot of space was needed for all this "stuff."  Each community needed such a rig to carry the equipment. 
 
Nowadays a properly spec'd out Ladder or Engine can carry all this equipment plus more.  Dedicated rescue rigs are really not needed in many Nassau Communities agreed. 
 
Once again the root of the problem comes back to history/tradition and leadership afraid of making a change.  Most of the time what you have is a dedicated rescue or patrol company (Westchester/rockland term) with a group of members with a history.  Sometimes a very old history.  That's the rig they use, a rescue truck.  As leadership in a particular department do you just take the rig away, sell it and disband the company?  Tell the membership they have to join other companies?  Nobody wants to be "that guy" to do such a thing.  Not saying its wrong...just putting the facts out there.
 
What you end up with is another form of "consolidation" that the fire service both volunteer AND career are afraid to entertain most of the time.
 
 
 
 

The Nassau County departments that have heavy rescues generally also have one or more aerials (including tower ladders). If you think it's justifiable for Nassau County to have that many heavy rescue rigs then more power to you. The fact is, it's a massive waste of taxpayer dollars.

 
 "babhits16", I couldn't tell you the call volume of the Rye Brook FD. But I sure think you told a great story in your post above.
 
 I must also agree with you that there are many volunteer firefighters that do a GREAT JOB. I give them credit for what they do. I have many friends, basically throughout the entire country, who are volunteer firefighters. Some have been career firefighters who I can only dream or wish that I had one tenth their firefighting and rescue experience. I have one volunteer firefighter/chief friend who owns a major insurance company, another who is an oral surgeon, another a retired U.S. Army Colonel, an accountant, a retired Con Ed supervisor responsible for the entire Westchester County area, a plumber and it goes on and on.
 
 These guys are GREAT people and their goal is to just go out there and help their communities and the people within them. They also show me a great amount of respect towards career firefighters and I myself, have the same degree of respect for them in what they do.
 
  Then I read here of a group of volunteer firefighters, led by a guy named Chief Quinn in Port Chester. This reminds me of the War Zone where I was a career firefighter. Years and years of battling over a thing called "the fire service". Where we are all supposed to do basically the same job. But where the term "Brotherhood" has been replaced with the term "Battlehood". Where are group of volunteer firefighters, led by some very jealous fire chiefs, had recently proposed the elimination of a 3 man career engine company, a fourth firefighter position in one of the busier engine companies, and eliminate four battalion chiefs positions for a total of 16 firefighter positions to be eliminated. These proposals were brought on by some of the same individuals who I know, took that same career firefighter test (in some cases several times), but were never successful in getting that job. So I guess the thinking must be, "if they can't have it, then nobody else should have it".
 
  I certainly wish all the best to those PCFD8 group of guys. Nothing would make my day better than for me to read on here that they win their lawsuit and all are hired elsewhere to work as career firefighters in a community where they will be much more appreciated for the job they do.
 
 As for the younger members of those fire departments in Port Chester who have a goal to become a career firefighter, "don't forget to give FULL credit to your fire commanders for just cutting your chances even more of reaching your lifetime goal". Maybe they couldn't get the job, but they shouldn't have cut your chances for what you wanted.

This has been an interesting situation to me.  I have heard great things about Rye Brook FD.  When they started their own service I'm glad they recognized the value in a career department.  There is nothing wrong with a department being volunteer, many do a great job.  However, my personal experience in the tri state reigon has really left a poor taste in my mouth and I assume Rye Brook recognized the boys club/ political climate and wanted to put guaranteed protection and citizen safety first.
 
I wonder/ hope that when the lawsuit settles Rye Brook settles the suit they hire the rest of the PCFD8 and become a fully staffed 24/7 agency and take the opportunity to become a premier FD in the region.
 
Question- does anybody know their annual call volume and what their normal staffing during daytime hours is?

They have more Rescues upstate where I  live now an they have the T- shirts to prove it