SteveOFD

Good luck calculating response times.
Caller sees a fire in one of the county's river towns. They dial 911 on their cell phone. It goes to the TMC. The TMC sees the call as coming off of a tower in Rockland, and transfers the call to 44 Control. Now Rockland actually asks the caller where they are and sends it to 60 Control. 60 gets the call and since it's a department that they can't directly dispatch, they then give the call information (or the actual call) to that FD for dispatch. That FD then tones out the call - finally.
Now, assume that this FD is dispatched by their PD and the PD is either busy or routinely doesn't monitor the fire radio. How will they know when the FD arrives, and who is documenting their arrival time?
Like I said, good luck figuring out an actual response time.

Read the full article at Firehouse.com.
In my opinion these guys did the "right" thing. It is sometimes tough to stand up and do the right thing, but this is an example, especially when the media picks it up, of standing up for what you believe in.

Again another trench situation, these will continue to happen because of others out there not following safety guidelines in place because of other mishaps throughout the nation. In this situation I understand that the IC called for help as soon as proper sizeup determined a situation that has gone bad. The availability within your own community of construction crews with front end loaders,local lumber yards with lumber for shoring etc, and in this case a Vactor Truck from Fred A. Cook from Buchanan to assist in the Rescue of the victim. A pre-plan with contact numbers for "other than FD" equipment is not a bad idea. Great job to all involved!

In my opinion the main reason an agency goes digital is because a radio sales rep sold them on the idea that they need to go digital to meet an FCC deadline for this or that regulation. Currently the main FCC deadline for Part 90 (Land Mobile Radio) radios is that these radios meet narrowband requriements by January 1, 2013. Most radios manufactured after the mid 1990's can meet this requirement by programming. Narrowbanding just means theat the radio will transmit in a narrower portion of spectrum thatn wideband.
A more in depth explanation can be read at Daryl Jones' Weblog. A portion of this article follows:
Digital radios can be more efficient in utilizing limited radio spectrum by utilizing error correction technology. Encryption is another feature that is available with digital radios. Some agencies have been sold digital radios with the assumption that they could not be heard by scanners. This is not true, APCO P25 digital, which is the digital format the Federal Government has accepted as its digital radio standard, can be scanned with a digital scanner. Digital scanners are considerably more expensive than conventional (analog only) scanners.

I've been dealing with the drama and bs for thirty five years. You just have to focus on what you are there for. For me it is the Firematic (and firefighting) side of the job. Don't let the rest get you down, just focus on the job.

All the Snorkels in Westchester have retired.
Snorkel 1 - Bedford Hills
Snorkel 2 - Verplanck
Snorkel 3 - Mount Vernon
Snorkel 4 - Scarsdale
Then there were the Snorkel TeleSquirts:
TS 1 - Fairview
TS 2 - Millwood(E245)
TS 3 - Mohegan
Only Millwood is still in service, soon to be replaced with a Sutphen 70'.
jack you googled while I was typing in.lol

http://www.emtbravo....ias-guidelines/

Not every accident, fire or incident gets posted because the focus is on noteworthy or unusual incidents. Even some of the jobs that do get posted aren't especially noteworthy and that is something the staff continually wrestles with. It's hard to balance when you have members from rural areas where having a call is "notable" to NYC where every day dozens of "noteable" incidients occur.
Sorry about your friend but it sounds like he was lucky enough not to be involved in a "noteworthy" accident.

At 0405 hrs 60-Control had the following FDNY run down:
~FDNY UNITS ON SCENE ENG'S 38,66,63,97 LAD 51, 61, 39 BATT'S 15,20,17,14,27,
~SQUAD61, DIV 7, R3, FOAM 96 E96, E72, FOAM 95 ENG 95, SAT 2, PURPLE K84 E84,
~PURPLE K 326 E326, FOAM TANDEM 1, E238, HM1, HAZ MAT BATT, E274 HAZ MAT TECH
Yes FDNY does have the resources, but where did these units come from, what were their response times ? Getting a lesser response quicker may be the proper call. What good is getting a major response if it takes 30 minutes or more to arrive vs. a smaller response that arrives in 10-15 minutes. So to say JUST CALL FDNY might be the wrong call.

With due respect to the staff,
Before the topic was locked, there was some measure of displeasure with the post from the site's founder regarding one-liners and inflammatory comments, with a poster saying the site has lost it's balls and the members need thicker skin.
It's not a matter of the site "losing it's balls" or members who need "thicker skin", it's about keeping the site educational, a positive environment, and most of all, PROFESSIONAL. Sometimes we need to remember that "we" (emergency service members) are not the only ones who read the content contained in these forums. I'm sure there are enthusiasts, members of local government, members of the media, and so on who read the content contained in these forums. While it's all good to banter amongst each other as if we were in the firehouse, precinct, quarters, or whatever you would like to call it, we still have to maintain some level of decorum and professionalism just as if we were present in a public place, since this board is easily viewed by members of the general public, and more importantly the media. Case in point;
The NYPD Rant for those who's haven't read it is full of so much garbage since there is little to no moderation, it's not one bit enjoyable to read from an educational standpoint. If anyone outside the NYPD read the material in that forum, the useless bantering of a few sets a bad precedence and honestly depicts the members of the NYPD in a very negative light. The media reported today on a thread contained in the NYPD Rant website about posters who posted personal attacks against an NYPD member. As a civilian reading that article, what kind of opinion do you think the "average Joe" will have of the Rant and the members of the NYPD?
So in order to keep this site from becoming another "rant style" website, there needs to be a level of moderation that suits the wishes of the site's founder, since it is ultimately his call on what is and what is not permitted. If any of us don't like it, we are all free to start up our own site where anything goes and all the members can brag over who has the biggest balls. Personally, I'll stick with the site that's an educational portal as well as promotes and exhibits the professionalism of emergency service providers.

I've been giving some thought on some of the comments on not only Yorktown's recent fire, but other incidents and want to share my thoughts.
Ten years ago, many of us were getting along fine, making do with what we had at our disposal in terms of manpower. Most fire departments would handle a single family dwelling fire with little to no Mutual Aid. Was it because we all had an abundance of manpower? I don't think so.
Many people like to get on the "manpower soapbox" all too often to explain their dwindling firehouse numbers, yet it can generally correlate to other contributing factors that many don't admit to, or even recognize.
1. Poor leadership. Many people in the volunteer fire service are giving their time to the FD while balancing their family duties, jobs and other commitments. Most guys and gals join either to be an integral part of their community and/or to become part of a social club. When your leadership is doing it's job (leading when leading is needed, being fair and balanced, treating everyone with respect, making everyone feel safe and accpeted) then the troops feel better about themselves and the department they've joined. I've been in my department since I was an Explorer (1992) and have seen AWESOME LEADERS (Chiefs and Company Officers) and sadly, we've had a few too many crappy ones. If you can lead your troops when they need leading and you can motivate them by making them feel a sense of ownership in their company/department, then they'll give that extra effort.
2. Lack of Training Availability. So many of us strive to be the best departments we can be, and this means a lot of training. We've grown from doing roughly one drill per month to offering 4-5 different training venues every month. Since everyone has crazy schedules, you need to be flexible. Having just one drill night isn't going to cut it. Also, training that we are all required to have isn't always made easily accessible. I don't fault WCDES for the lack of some courses - I lay blame on OFPC (or whatever acronym they use now). Why can't volunteer fire departments have an MTO? In our own department we have a half dozen NYS and/or National Fire Service Instructors and we're being under utilized. We had a good thing going for a couple of years where one of our guys was granted a "supplemental CFI" status and was providing in-house OFPC classes, such as HMFRO, HMFRO Annual Refresher, Confined Space Awareness & Safety, Scene Support Operations and others that you just don't see often enough. Losing this has hurt our training program, and now it costs us more money to outsource and bring instructors in. In a nutshell, the current system sucks.
3. Personal Agendas. I've seen a couple of Chiefs (not just in our FD but around the county) that get elected with an agenda of their own. In order to get what they want, they start cutting funding for certain things, they lie to everyone and worst of all - they let the department's members suffer. For example, if your Chief is up in your commissioners officer / town hall lying to them about what your members need simply to make themselves look good - that will come back to the guys/gals and ruin their ambition to be a part of your department.
I know I may sound like a broken record, but it really does come down to how your department is run, from the top down. If your Chief can't run a scene, the guys lose faith in them. If your Captain can't be bothered with drill night because of his softball games, how are the guys in the trenches expected to show any initiative? And if all the guys walking around with collar brass don't take the time to guide, mentor and lead their men/women - kiss it all goodbye.
These things have major negative impacts on your department's performance call after call. You might get 40 guys in line at a parade, but how many of them can honestly remember the last time they got out of bed at 2am for a CO call?
Leadership makes/breaks fire departments - we can blame it on anything else we want, but this simple truth is what hurts so many of us.
Stay safe & train often.
/thoughts.

The problem is not our "insatiable thirst for services" as many regions of the country have better fire service for less than we pay, our problem is our insatiable thirst for duplicate service, aka every firetruck, ambulance, police car, garbage truck and dispatch center must say "our town" on it.

Yes they have gators and they allow depts to come up and train on them, but no one ever goes back to their home dept.
I can't imagin why?

ASSOCIATION OF FIRE CHIEFS PUBLIC RELATIONS COMMITTEE.
Sep 20, 2011
0911-38
In June of this year, the Hazardous Materials Reimbursement bill on FASNY's Legislative Scorecard passed both houses of the NYS Legislature. This bill has now been delivered to the Governor for his consideration. The bill (S.5444/A.7672), sponsored by Senator Zeldin and Assemblyman Sweeney, permits reimbursement for costs associated with the clean up of hazardous materials spills.
Sounds good so far, but look at these excerpts from the legislation:
"An act to amend the environmental conservation law, in relation to providing reimbursement to fire companies for costs associated with responding to releases of hazardous materials"
"Reimbursement shall be limited to expendable materials in the response, and be limited to $10,000."
My link
This legislation has been proposed by FASNY each legislative session since at least 2004
Why is this BAD Legislation?
1) Currently Federal law has allowed full cost recovery for the last 31 years.
TITLE 42--THE PUBLIC HEALTH AND WELFARE
CHAPTER 103--COMPREHENSIVE ENVIRONMENTAL RESPONSE, COMPENSATION, AND LIABILITY (CERCLA)has allowed billing since December 1980.
Was ammended by Superfund Amendments & Reauthorization Act (SARA) in 1986.
2) Why limit it to "expendable materials" and $10,000..............The Federal Law says ALL Costs associated.
So if a FD responds and gets 10 sets of turnouts contaminated (and the product cant be deconned) You get $10,000 and your tax payers get to pay the other $25,000 - $40,000. What if you lose a rig?
The spiller is required to have insurance, let them pay for their mistake.
Note: We have had bills that were well over $100,000 and without billing many depts can not maintain their capabilities.
Please advise the Governor's office if you think he should veto this bill by calling 518-474-8390 or email:
NYS Governor Contact Page
Thank You

For info on this rig see this EMTBravo thread.

Risk vs. Benifit
Huge risk-no benifit. If it really needs to be put out let Con Ed do it.

And now my opinion:
In speaking with a Con Ed Electric Emergency Service Supervisor, even if the line was cut and the insulation was on fire, the Con Ed worker would still need his safety gear and the bucket right on the line, with Con Ed using the extinguisher. A Con Ed Worker, on that type of pole, can never guarentee the power's been cut especially with so many other services using the pole. Also, Con Ed would extinush the fire, and probaly splice at that location. It should also note that the insulation is designed to be fire resistant. And if you've ever seen a Con Ed guy suit up for burning wires, there's a reason for all that safety gear. And I'm sure he's qualified to operate a dry chem.
I don't care who can identify the department, and who can't. The Chief should be setting an example. The Chief should be an Incident Commander, and how is he in position to do on top of an apparatus cab? And that Incident Commander should have a Con Ed SUPERVISOR right next to him at the command post and operating under the DIRECT advisment of that supervisor.
The fire service is not a popularity contest. We all make mistakes. I don't care who this person is, but if he made a mistake, he should own up to his mistake and take full accountability for everything he does. That goes for everyone. Using friendship or any other excuse to justify the actions in the photos is unprofessional. And, are you going to let your friends do things that are unsafe, or let them get away with it "because you know them" so you can visit them in the hospital or worse?
Obviously, this Chief is friends with many on this forum-and is probaly even a member. Therefore, he could easily pass along a message regarding his actions if he wishes to do so.
If this was some department way out west let's say, the same people complaining about this post would have very different attitudes.
This is a life or death action. Anyone who finds this acceptable needs to be retrained in Basic Firefighter, and Electrical Emergenies, and then tested on it. Any department member needs to wonder if he would put his firefighters into a situation where they may not go home to their families? If there is not an immediate threat to life in this situations, let it burn! I highly doubt with all the rain up there that brush would be an issue. I've heard how they did it "in the old days" until present, with a water can, but those people are lucky. Additonally, as for positioning the apparatus, why is it right under the pole,crossarms, and wires?
Down here right now, wires down are a major emergency as it could spark a fire that burns thousands of acres. Still, crews contain the fire from a safe distance, and lets the power company cut the actual line and do whatever needs to be done with it. I don't see any major emergency present in the photo.
OK, to sum up my long winded post:
TRUST THE EXPERTISE OF CON EDISON They aren't sitting around on a beach somewhere playing with thermostats and feeding solar power back into the grid and the such, they are out there.....if it's a major emergency or threat, you will get a response. If not, wait.
Friends don't let friends fry.

I don't (ever) post because I often feel like I have nothing to add. I have no experience other than as family. My grandfather was FDNY. My brothers were volunteers in Dutchess County.
But I want to take this opportunity to say thank you to each and every one of you. As a family member, I understand the sacrifices you make, the training you make time for and the time you are away from your families, friends and other activities so you can serve your community in the most amazing way I can think of.
I salute your bravery, your commitment and your expertise. Our communities are better places because you live, work and volunteer here.
Consider this a long distance hug from a very grateful community member.
-Heather

For those of you have not seen The Guys, I would recommend you go see The Armonk Players perform this play. Dates are September 9, 10 & 11, 2011, 8PM @ Whippoorwill Hall, 19 Whippoorwill Road East, Armonk, NY.
The story of a Fire Captain who lost eight men in the collapse of the World Trade Center and the civilian editor who helps him prepare the eulogies he must deliver. See this trailer from the movie. This is a powerful story and it will remember it for quite a while.
Featured in this play is Dick Nagle (ret. FDNY Lt. & Croton FD Ex-Chief)). I saw him perform this part in the same play back in 2002, I don't remember if it was the same group, but well worth seeing again.
Also, from the the flyer the price for admission is Free, but donations are accepted for Burn Care Everywhere.
I plan on attending, hope you will too.

Didja Know:
When wired correctly (many are not) a Gamewell Box system has these features:
When several boxes are pulled they will get in line and wait their turn to transmit.
The box will wait for the beginning of a round to transmit, never in the middle.
The box will try 26 times to gain access to a busy circuit and then take over the circuit before its spring winds down.
If a wire is broken, the box will transmit thru the ground.
Boxes have a telegraph key for two way communiation.
Even in a place like the Bronx, as busy as they were in the 60's, boxes gave the quickest response times. Companies knew by the first two digits whether the box was theirs or not.
There are only three certainties in this world-Death, Taxes, and if you pull that red box, firemen show up in three minutes.

With the one year anniversary of the loss of Tarrytown Firefighters John Kelly and Anthony Ruggiero approaching (9-6-11), I am starting this thread to find out how this incident has affected other members of the Emergency Services community.
How has this affected you personally?
How has this changed the way your agency operates (if at all)?
Personally, during the year since this incident, I have attended the Confined Space Awareness class and the Hazardous Materials First Responder Operations level training.If this thread fills out the way I hope it will, I will share some other thoughts I have attempted over the course of this past year.
RIP John & Anthony

For those of you have not seen The Guys, I would recommend you go see The Armonk Players perform this play. Dates are September 9, 10 & 11, 2011, 8PM @ Whippoorwill Hall, 19 Whippoorwill Road East, Armonk, NY.
The story of a Fire Captain who lost eight men in the collapse of the World Trade Center and the civilian editor who helps him prepare the eulogies he must deliver. See this trailer from the movie. This is a powerful story and it will remember it for quite a while.
Featured in this play is Dick Nagle (ret. FDNY Lt. & Croton FD Ex-Chief)). I saw him perform this part in the same play back in 2002, I don't remember if it was the same group, but well worth seeing again.
Also, from the the flyer the price for admission is Free, but donations are accepted for Burn Care Everywhere.
I plan on attending, hope you will too.

For those of you have not seen The Guys, I would recommend you go see The Armonk Players perform this play. Dates are September 9, 10 & 11, 2011, 8PM @ Whippoorwill Hall, 19 Whippoorwill Road East, Armonk, NY.
The story of a Fire Captain who lost eight men in the collapse of the World Trade Center and the civilian editor who helps him prepare the eulogies he must deliver. See this trailer from the movie. This is a powerful story and it will remember it for quite a while.
Featured in this play is Dick Nagle (ret. FDNY Lt. & Croton FD Ex-Chief)). I saw him perform this part in the same play back in 2002, I don't remember if it was the same group, but well worth seeing again.
Also, from the the flyer the price for admission is Free, but donations are accepted for Burn Care Everywhere.
I plan on attending, hope you will too.

Every company must have and be well trained with AT LEAST 1 T.I.C. for EVERY interior crew.
If your department does not have at least 1 T.I.C. on every rig......WHY NOT? When you buy a new ladder that costs $750,000 - $1.2m and you cant afford a couple of $10,000-$20,000 T.I.C's you need to consider what you are doing.
How much does the gold leaf or the fancy drawing cost?

I like the attire on the Mack Bulldog on the bell of the Rescue.

With the hurricane expecting to reach a Cat 1 or 2 when it makes land fall, coastal communities can expect anywhere from 0-6ft of storm surge along with significant rainfall. Make sure your pumps, saws and any other mechanical equipment you need are gased, oiled, and ready to run.
If your department is going to run flood water evacuations, or other types of water rescues without calling for a water rescue team, be sure to follow the following guidelines (and by no means take this as "Ok, we're good to go for flood water and swift water response").
- NO turnout gear in or around the water - turnout gear, especially pants and boots WILL DROWN YOU. It is impossible to kick and try and stay afloat wearing it.
- Wear your life jacket anytime you are within 6 feet of water.
- Do not wear neoprene rescue suits in flood waters, this includes ice rescue suits. Gas and other petroleum based products that are found floating in the flood waters will break down your suit eventually reaching your skin giving you a nasty burn. They also not water tight, leaving room for water contaminated with sewer waste, oils, and other nasty stuff to get inside the suit and fester up against your skin for the duration of you wearing it.
- Always walk in flood waters with a prod pole that reaches feet in front of you (not directly in front of where you are standing), much like sounding the floor when VESing a room. Manhole covers, sewer drain lids and other items will be forcefully removed by the water, leaving a hole in the road filled with downward flowing water. You will get sucked in, and you will drown; it has happened many times before and a fireman recently drowned in Colorado.
- Swift water constitutes any water moving faster then 1kts.
- Remember the adage of "REACH, THROW, ROW. GO." Any rescue where we can stay warm and dry, is the most successful type. If you are unsure, call for a swift water team, in fact call for the swift water team anyways, it is far better to have them in route, then realizing 20 minutes down the line you need them in rapidly rising waters.. They have the training and knowledge on how to preform this most difficult type of rescue. The GO portion, should only be performed by individuals who reach the Technical or Operational level of swift water. Any member can stand on the shore and throw a rope, or shove a pike pole to the individual. DO NOT tie your entry team off to a rope that is tied to a shore, if they slip, they will be pulled under water by force and drown.
Again, this is by no means a training module or any release to say you are good to go for swift or flood water rescue. Use this as an awareness tool.