tglass59

just had 4 guys from Detroit Fd in last week not a lot of surround and drown, more like 3 - 5 fires a shift and get your ass kicked. And for no money, and now no city pension. More like a 401-k. Shame what the city has done to that dept. And you don't try to be a firefighter for a couple of years, it isn't like buying a car to see if you like it.

First, I was not there..... but, I do not see anything out the ordinary on this truck setup. I think if you are truck chauffer you should be expected to operate the truck you train and work with.
With this said, that is why I am a big fan of mid-mount tower ladders due to the low turntable to get under wires and with shorter booms.

Next he will be going after the Triborough Doctrin and for people who dont know what it is.
The Triborough Doctrine - The Facts
In the early 1980's the New York State Legislature passed legislation that amended the Taylor Law. The Triborough Amendment was passed as a counter to the fact that NYS public employees do not have the right to strike.
Most public employees don't think about the Triborough Doctrine or remember its importance. There are some in the NYS legislature that would like to eliminate this important legislation.
What does the Triborough Doctrine do?
Prevents an employer from changing terms and conditions of employment until a new contract is negotiated. Requires empoyers to negotiate in good faith, in exchange employees are protected from striking. Employers changing terms and conditions of employment after a contract expires but before a new contract commit an improper practice.
What effect would a repeal of the Triborough Amendment have?
Step increases, increments and longevity pay amounts could be stopped. Employers could reduce work hours and workers' pay and change benefits after a contract expires. Holiday and sick pay could be eliminated. Health coverage could be reduced and employees' share of the premium could be increased. Employers could implement a contract on its employees if no agreement is achieved. The Triborough Amendment puts UPSEU members on a level playing field. An elimination of this important legislation or even a watered down version would have a devastating effect on public employees throughout the state of New York.
For those wondering if their legislators working to stop public employees of this important legislation believe public employees would be granted the right to strike to be law, they don't. They want a one way bargaining process.

You mean this report?
http://www.nist.gov/manuscript-publication-search.cfm?pub_id=904607
There you go using science and facts to refute politics and emotion. When are you gonna learn!?!?!?

I'm pretty sure that FDNY, Yonkers, New Rochelle, and White Plains have all been saying this for a number of years. As their numbers have been reduced.

HazMat is an especially contentious issue in NYC because technically the NYPD is the lead agency until the incident is determined to not be terrorism or criminal. However the FDNY is still to be in charge of decontamination and mitigation. NYPD frequently does not notify FD of suspected HazMat calls while they investigate them. This is not speculation, since I started working in Manhattan I have witnessed this on multiple occasions. This has been going on for years though. 9/11 hasn't changed anything, as HM1 is probably busier now than it was before.
The volume seems about right. The truck takes an inordinate amount of abuse for the sheer number of miles it covers.
Fire Chiefs Claim Cop Commanders Hinder Them At Emergencies


Posted: Monday, July 9, 2012 4:15 pm | Updated: 4:16 pm, Mon Jul 9, 2012.



By SARAH DORSEY | 0 comments



Police commanders frequently prevent firefighters from doing their jobs properly during emergencies, ignoring protocols set up after 9/11 to ensure that the two agencies cooperate effectively, Fire Chiefs said in a 2008 survey published last year.



Nearly 200 Chiefs were asked about the Citywide Incident Management System (CIMS), which was established in 2004 after the 9/11 Commission found that poor coordination between agencies hampered rescue efforts during the terrorist attacks. The program dictates which agency takes command in emergencies, with the FDNY leading technical-rescue operations and the NYPD commanding hazardous-materials incidents until criminal intent or terrorism is ruled out. Other agencies, such as the Department of Health and the Department of Environmental Protection, often also advise the first-responders.

http://thechiefleader.com/news/news_of_the_week/fire-chiefs-claim-cop-commanders-hinder-them-at-emergencies/article_0d442094-c9cf-11e1-8f17-001a4bcf6878.html

400 vacancies? Of course you're gonna have people killing it with overtime! Even I can do that math

Maybe they will finally figure out that hiring more people is more cost effective...

I think the point here is that any standpipe equipped building whether 6 or 40 stories cannot be handled properly with current staffing. Yonkers has 4 per rig, 1 remains in street to supply system which in itself is difficult task for 1 member, the Officer and 2 firefighters are left to handle hose lay and one member must remain at standpipe valve to supply line. So in essence 2 are manning the line in a high rise fire, with the possibilty of long hallways and wind driven fires, plus not enough line carried into building by the 3 members. So yes Yonkers firefighters are at a big disadvantage in high rise operations. How long would it take for the 2nd engine to pair up and assist with line placement, this would add more members to facilitate stretch, but in some sections it may be a while for this to occur due to long responses. Union has some real issues here but is there an answer that allows high rise operations in Yonkers to be conducted safely.

I agree with everything you said. My point is that YFD is understaffed, but NR & WP are running with 3 per rig. when 1 remains in the street to pump. That leaves the officer and ff to lay hose from the standpipe to the fire apt. Now who mans the valve, the officer or the ff and what if the ff is a probie (do you send him in alone?).
In either case 1 in an IDLH atmospher is a problem.
The study shows that pairing up 2) 3 man units (6 members) is less effective than 5 man companies.

Article is spot on......3 guys per crew can't be expected to work a high rise properly.

State the facts, The city wants to close two companies. Making a Department that is already spread thin, even thinner.
The city knows very well Empress could never duplicate our service. Not because of the Empress employees, but simply because our services are dedicated to the residents of Yonkers. We are always within the city limits, unlike Empress, who will do what they can to make a buck. So there is no "claim" that Empress is for profit, it's the truth. You did fail to mention this "free" service you will be providing will cost the taxpayers millions of dollars. Also, "your mostly at your own cost" Haz-mat equipment was provided to you by the taxpayer, through the fire department.
As stated you'll be receiving A MEDIC, who will not be able to transport and who will not be able to provide CPR efficiently. As you emphaszed on, our very good pay, benefits and great pension ensure that our staffing leveles are well maintained. Unlike Empress, where there is constantly new faces, there is consistancy in our department. Our manning not only Gaurantees when you dial 9-1-1 you will have a quick response, but also that if additional aide is needed, it's there. What will Empress do when they are short of staff?
Many times our members have been asked to drive the bus or ride in the back because the Empress crew could not handle the situation with only two people. So when you say "we dump the patient care" on you to do the "meat and potatoes", I have to disagree. Because we're doing the "meat and potatoes" before Empress is even there. Again, this is not an attack on the crews, it merely states the truth. In fact, their Local should be concerned with the greater risks their members are going to be taking. Empress would have to fly through intersections, drive at dangerous speeds just to make it there in 8-10 minutes. Not to mention other risks like responding to projects where the YFD would send two units, or lifting heavy patients. It's only a matter of time before someone gets hurt.
I also find it ironic that you state that our full time job is fighting fires, not EMS. Yet you also state that 80% of our calls are EMS related, contradicting yourself, no?
628 is in no way attacking the Union, so please do not come on here instigating that our union is attacking the union of the Empress employees. Your post seems like more of an advertisement, scripted for you by the city, to turn the private sector unions against public sector unions. The facts are the city is breaking a contractual agreement with 628 and making an agreement with Empress without putting it out for bid. Back room deals which are all too common in Yonkers, and result in the taxpayer paying more for less. So again, please stop claiming that we are trashing another union. But if this what you must do, I guess desperate times do call for desperate measures.

Great Questions!!!
The reason we follow the minor ones is 3 fold:
1) OSHA / PESH also require us to follow NFPA Standards and they will give violations for failing to meet the minor one (but they have never enforced 1710, which they can only do under the "General Duty Clause", as there is no OSHA standard for manning. NYS DOL does not appear to be overly concerned with enforcement of the "General Duty Clause").
2) Liability - There are many documented legal cases where NFPA standards were used, but not 1 case on 1710.
3) Availablity/Liability - The minor items listed are often only available in NFPA versions or the chief must sign liability waviers to get around them. For examble we had red/white rear chevrons, when we purchased the 1st rig after the NFPA 1901 change to red / yellow our chief asked if we could keep it red/white and the manufacturer said only if he would sign a liability release. We got red/yellow.
The standard (as partially listed above) requires 3ff's and 1of per company minimum and 16 or 17 total (based on ladder ops) on the 1st alarm assignment. These numbers are based on a 2,000 sq/ft pvt. dwelling without a basement, larger structures require greater staffing.
The 2 reasons we do not enforce NFPA 1710 is 2 fold:
1) Because no department has been sued and/or lost. I always believed that if the insurance industry ever figures this one out we will be hit hard (i.e. 2 on a rig =50% complience, sue the FD for 50% of the loss).
2) 99% of Mayors, Managers, Counciles, etc. do not believe this is important so they do not fund (or cant afford to fund) 1710. The only other option for depts is CONSOLIDATION, and we all have learned that we would rather run short then go down that road.

Very sad.....people just doing their jobs or volunteering their time and already doing something dangerous.
Hey, maybe the NRA will blame this on the media too and suggest armed guards at all fire scenes

How big is each Battalion Chief's first due in the FDNY compared to YFD's?
FDNY Chiefs outnumber YFD, what, some odd hundred to TWO?
Both outstanding urban departments, yet still, apples to oranges.

somers does a heck more than "6" calls a week, and that's not just EMS. They have a paid EMS crew now 24/7 for the first ambulance. and seriously, look at the fire district taxes in some of those departments. Those are scary numbers for volunteer agencies. It can't cost all that money every year for electricity, building & apparatus maintenance, as well as insurance. The real question is: Why doesn't Westchester County have a career Fire/EMS department and consolidate the infrastructure and apparatus of existing volunteer departments, taking into account the their geographical locations?

I would pay twice what we pay now per year for a career firefighter/paramedic staffed department, and triple that to add in a uniformed policeman in each public school in my township. Happily.
I asked not to play the vollie card because we preach until we are blue in the face that we are no different than a career fireman,,(not true BTW), then we ask for special perks because we are "volunteer"....sorry - you cant have your cake, and eat it too..

Well, as someone who has been a part of the first response in the YFD for the past 22 years, I couldn't care less about what you Bull might find overdramatic, or what you Jack might find unnecessary and unprofessional. I've spent the majority of my career in SW yonkers and have seen good and i have seen bad when it comes to Empress. I, like JFlynn believe the 2 entities work well together (give or take a nut in a safari hat). But I believe the first salvo fired in this episode came from the bosses at Empress when they stated blatantly false response times in an effort to seize sole control over EMS in Yonkers, knowing full well it would cost jobs in the yfd, and worse yet, put the lives of the citzens at risk. So what would the main benefit be ? Greater profit maybe ? I don't know what was uglier , the false numbers being produced by Empress, or the roll the dice attitude exhibited by the city for the sole purpose of breaking contracts. It seems to me the Bosses at Empress were well aware of what the repercussions were to be had the first responder program ended . For the most part , the buses arrive in a timely manner, but I have witnessed 10 minute plus response way too often, and for Empress to tell the city that there would be no difference in service without the YFD is misleading at best. That to me is unprofessional. This, coming from someone who has delivered 2 chlidren , shocked and initiated cpr on too many to count, all because Empress wasn't on scene in a timely manner. Capt. Geo. Smith YFD

Same ole story......don't get me started........when plan-A thru E don't work......ummmmm, lets go back to Plan-A again.

The tax cap was political grandstanding at it's worse. NY, for years could not pass a budget on time and they decided to tell local government entities how to do business. The biggest tax burden as always are the school systems where the public votes on the budget.

Can you explain this? I am the 1st to point out the problem of duplication in Westchester and the lake of reporting to the public (and even ourselves). But the gov. was advised that the tax cap would not work and would just create massive problems for all local governments, but all he wants is to mae it look like he is fixing everything so that in 2016 he can be the next president.

http://www.lohud.com...ext|Frontpage|s

If it is like any other new show that has been airing lately I dont see it going anywhere...bring back the Honeymooners...

Good observations and questions. The EOC was opened early in this incident and a Unified Command was established. Internally, our 5,000 gallon tanker was deployed, members were recalled to man reserve LDH Engines, and to serve as a Water Supply Chief, man our fireboat, as well as other critical functions. WCDES, NYSHHS / OEM, and FDNY were all contacted early on and resources were put in place. Tankers were provided by MTA, Con Ed, Yonkers Contracting, and portable tanks were provided by I believe, Banksville, and another department in Westchester. Other than pre-planning, and providing the portable tanks, no outside Fire Departments were needed to operate within the city. The FDNY Fireboats were identified as a potential resource, and we were told they would be available if needed. Pre-staging FDNY boat or boats in Yonkers was discussed but decided against. Practical distances that water could be pumped from the river were calculated. Relay operations were preplanned, and a YFD Task Water Supply Task Force has been standing by since yestaerday afternoon. FDNY Division 7 as well as FDNY Dispatchers were very helpful in pre-planning Satelitte Task Forces which would be able to quickly deploy into Yonkers if needed.
It is interesting to remember that Chief Bill Fitz, who had the foresight to secure a surplus tanker several years ago and to cheaply have it painted and modified for just such an event as this, was mocked and belittled for his efforts. Once again, his and other YFD members foresight and pre-planning proved to be accurate.
Lots of other deails I am not mentioning here. Kudos to our members for coming in quickly when recalled and doing whatever was asked, as well as to the many cooperating individuals and agencies who offered help and advice.
YFD, as is the case for many other departments and agencies, has many dedicated and knowledgeable people "behind the scenes", who are constantly planning for not only routine incidents, but also those that may only happen once in a lifetime, if at all. It is a tough thing to do these days, as those who hold the purse strings rarely recognize the necessity of dedicating adequate resources to planning for events which may never happen. It is also always interesting to be involved in these type incidents, and to recognize the surprise on people's faces, including at times our own members, to fiind out that we have anticipated such events and we have resources available and plans ready to implement. The response to this event could have been much better, for sure, but all things considered, I was happy with what I saw.
This is just a quick note to give some perspective, leaving out lots of details and probably with some mistakes. I probably will not have time to posta again for a few days or so, so sorry if I don't respond to questions or commens about this.

Guys it's a simple water main break not the apocalypse. Tankers, National Guard, spaceships! Sheesh lol