FirNaTine

Great job and thanks for taking the photos!! Out of curiosity I was told you should try to be 10' away from wires with aerials? Obviously there is inherent risk when dealing with wires. *Not trying to make anything of this by any means just strictly a curiosity/learning question.*

What about ground ladders? Any others thrown except the one i/f/o the residence?

April 1975

Two alarm high rise fire at 1841 Central Park Ave

Yonkers firefighters go over the 19th floor roof to attack the top floor fire.

Could somebody please explain the reasoning for this? This is sort of like the story an "old timer" told me of rappelling down the side of a building for a lockout from an upper floor apartment.

isn't that a training issue?

You would think right? Can't always lead a horse to water though and make him drink if he doesn't want to. Some people are just not willing to learn and/or are incapable of it. I guess then it really becomes a hiring standard issue then and a piss poor interviewing process. JMO

There is more to being a good MPO also. But being able to get water is a good start. Main size, identifying a un primed pump etc.......Hands out to sides palms up and a shoulder shrug is one of the scariest things to see at a fire

Absolutely! How about adding to this just knowing your 1st due territory as in streets, standpiped bldgs., dead end hydrants, obscured hydrants, no hydrants at all, etc.etc.. Another thing too is many places seem to assign positions on apparatus by "Seniority" and not "Ability!"

And let's not forget to actually be able to quickly charge the line. You could have the manpower and speed to properly select and position the proper size hoseline but if your MPO is clueless and incapable of doing his Job, then it's all for naut!

First, what is the GPM ? .... I'll go with 150 GPM = 160 PSI

I use the 1.75 rule of thumb method:

Thumb =1 for 100 gpm

Pointer = 2 for 125 gpm

Middle = 3 for 150 gpm

Ring = 4 for 175 gpm

Pinkey =5 for 200 gpm

Multiply the number of the finger by 10 that is the friction loss for 100'

Hence , 150 gpm = Middle finger 3 x 10 = 30 per 100' x 2 (200/100) = 60 + 100 for nozzle pressure. = 160 psi

And a lot simpler to figure out at 3am when the place is wripping. Take the NASA formula above and toss it! WTF!

I always wonder if we really took a look at FF injuries and LODs how many of them could have been prevented by changing our strategy/tactics or just following the basics. Too many times it seems like everyone is ready to cast blame on others and finger point but in reality it's ourselves I believe and our so called "Brother" ffs who are to blame because many of us have become too complacent and lazy and just don't give a rats ass about our Profession and expanding our knowledge of it. God forbid one does too cause then you'll be labeled a "Geeper" or "Buff" and God knows we can't have that!!!

Because I know the answer already from anyone who was trained heavily and frequently I would like if only our volunteer members answer the following question.

You have 4 lengths of 1.75 line with a combination (fog) nozzle on it. How many PSI would you provide at the pump panel. Please if you could provide an example of your math.

Thanks

Open it up to Career guys too. Id love to see some of the answers! LOL!

Great pics. OMG, a parade? How unprofessional.

And Im sure nobody indulged in Libations afterwards right? Yeah right!

The Squad concept for the most part is nothing but a "Dog and Pony" Show. Looks good on paper but that's about it with the exception of a couple of Career Depts. that can actually perform the Duties within a reasonable amount of time.

Will there be a wet down for it?

Not just for promotions. Most civil service positions now require college credits at the ENTRY LEVEL. Getting a good job with nothing more than a HS diploma is fast becoming a thing of the past.

Depends on where your applying. Some places you don't need a HD or a GED. Not that I agree with it! I think it's ludicrous!

Many times this "Boss"or "Leader", or whatever you want to call him has to get involved and be out in front not because he wants to "lead by example" but because he's been dealt a "Bad Hand" to play with due to the broken System which now worries about reaching "Quotas" and not "Qualified" individuals! It's unfortunate, but nowadays an Officer many times has to accomplish tasks by himself due to the incompetent morons the Fire Service is hiring. He/She has no choice if they want the Job done right. Thank You "Affirmative Action" and All you Liberal POS Politicians! You just made an Officer's Job that much more difficult!

There's 18 and 19 yr olds fighting for our freedom and getting no sleep. Get your asses out of bed and go help your Community no matter what the time! s*** I did it which was once and a blue moon and still kept my grades up. Where the hell are these kids Volunteering Bed Stuy and Crown Heights for God's sake? Suck it up!

Coulda been a career guy who was a volunteer who was on OT who was paid call who was an auxiliary who was a union member who was the freekin Easterbunny.......

Here's what we KNOW:

He was a vollie captain

He was a member of an all vollie FD

His FD has a bar

His blood alcohol was double the legal limit

See a pattern? Does the truth hurt?

Coulda been a career guy who was a volunteer who was on OT who was paid call who was an auxiliary who was a union member who was the freekin Easterbunny.......

Here's what we KNOW:

He was a vollie captain

He was a member of an all vollie FD

His FD has a bar

His blood alcohol was double the legal limit

See a pattern? Does the truth hurt?

Not for me but obviously for some it does. QTIP Brother! Sense a lot of animosity and possibly hidden guilt here! Plenty of Combo Depts. to out there where Career guys have been invited thru more then one locked door to hoist a few with fellow Volunteers. Seen it plenty of times. Also have seen the old adult beverage in the Soda Machine trick over the years in Career Stations. Does the truth hurt?

Could have been a Career guy who was also a Volunteer? There's plenty of them still around!

Hey guys we got our own who are supposedly trained and still get killed in our line of work so let's not ridicule a cop or the NYPD Administration for not properly training them! Our own fellow FD Brothers screw up for not following proper protocol and the basics!!

put_out_fire.jpg

And there you have it! LOL!

You are correct, but if you take the hose out, the lesson is clear, get out, because you have no means to stay and fight.

Until they start filling pots of water from the tub and sinks. Hopefully they'll just leave.

The FD teaches many things to the Public Bnechis but as we All know it often falls on deaf ears. The examples are plentiful!

I agree with a lot of what you are saying but my biggest issue is with their use of the elevator. I don't really think an SOP is needed to tell people not to use elevators during fires. It's common knowledge and it's posted next to elevators everywhere. If they had used the stairs we wouldn't be having this conversation.

13 flights? There were 3 elevators and Ive got no problem with PD securing them especially for FD use if they have Elevator FD Emergency Service keys. Maybe that's all they should do? Or how about secure all 3 in the Lobby and let one Officer take one to 2 floors below and investigate but surely not to the fire floor or did it malfunction and go to the fire floor? Were there odd and even bank cars or blind shaft banks? A lot of questions to be answered before everyone jumps to conclusions.

Please don't beat me too hard: I am not a cop, and I am at best minimally a fireman. I am a Union official and I read a lot- Cop and FD mags and The Chief.

In the NYPD acadamy, is there ANY fire training?

What would happen if the guy that makes the PD acadamy curiculum contacted his counterpart at the FD acadamy and tried to set up a short class on FD ops and dos and don'ts for trainees?

My guess is that someone would not like it and make a fuss, maybe even a Union official.

For the folks online here that have a much better knowledge of NYC FD and PD ops- would this work? Do you think it is a dumb idea, esp given the hindsight of this event where well-meaning responders became badly injured? Would it be so awful that two agencies that serve the public at emergencies share a bit of knowledge about the best and safest way to do it? So awful that despite this tragedy we not change anything?

Not going to happen! Too many egos! Let's face it too, there's too many FD and PD employees out there who are more concerned about making a "Grab" and being the hero so they can add to their cache of ribbons, and get pissed off if another member of the Emergency Service Professions gets there first and robs them of the Glory! Gotta agree with some Law Enforcement Officials on this one too the FD should then stay away from tackling robbery, mugging, burglary etc etc Suspects and leave it to the PD. Maybe FD should also stay away and not render assistance to an Officer being assaulted. Stage away and let PD handle it. Your not trained nor do you have the proper equipment to assist: Gun, Baton, Taser, Handcuffs, etc.etc.. These two did what they thought was right but unfortunately paid the ultimate sacrifice fellows. I know Id be pretty pissed off if I lost a loved one in a fire and found out there was Law Enforcement Officials there who could have made a difference but were told not to get involved and wait FD's arrival. We all know seconds, not even minutes count. We all take an oath to protect Life and Property. What next PD won't be allowed to throw up a ground ladder to get somebody out of a window whose trapped? How about get rid of 11/2" Standpipe hose on Class 3 Standpipes and Extinguishers within Premises/Businesses, so they can't be used by Building Employees/Occupants. Is it ok for a lay person to try and attack a fire with these items when they don't have the proper training? C'mon! Granted though there has to be better Training and SOP's implemented and both sides have to know their limitations and know what they can and can't do. JMO.

We have won 5 out of the last 6

Fights or games?

It seems we don't police our own anymore. This yrs ago was done by the Senior men but unfortunately the "so called" Senior guys of today don't feel that it's their Job anymore to reprimand the younger guys and new recruits or even show them the ropes. The Senior guys of today are no way in hell like those of yester year. Many are just as clueless whether it's dealing with an issue like this or even their knowledge of the Job! Many today can't teach the younger and newer recruits anything cause they're just as f****** ignorant and dumb!

One big waste of Taxpayers money! Especially going to that City!