AFS1970

This article speaks for itself, so I'll just let it.....

http://www.backstepfirefighter.com/2...-dave-leblanc/

He wouldn't be any worse than the clown we have in the white house now.

This is what I was referring to when I talked about constructive criticism. Valid observations which can be used to effect a different and possibly better outcome at the next alarm.
I also agree, notwithstanding a later post, that a 2-1/2 would have been my choice. We have become too reliant on the easily accessible cross lay 1-3/4. If you have the manpower, again if, three guys with a 2-1/2 can put out a lot of room and contents fire quicker than a 1-3/4. Time change, at one time for basements and first floors, you always put a 2-1/2 into service.
I can't ever recall an alarm over my 37 years where an after action analysis wouldn't produce something that could have been done differently to achieve a possibly better outcome. Sometimes there are valid reasons for doing something in a way that does not translate to a video viewing as the entire scene can not be taken into account. That is why we should engage in constructive criticism not critical analysis. There is a difference.

I was not aware of the animosity between some regular FFs and volunteer FFs until I began to read these forums. Perhaps things are different "back east", but out here in the wild west, volunteer firefighters are required to have the exact same training and certifications that the full-timers do.
We don't have volunteer firefighters in the metropolitan areas, but only in rural parts of the state. Without them, those areas would be completely without fire protection and first-responder medical care. I consider volunteers who give up so much of their time - and even put their lives on the line for the public - to be true heroes.
We also have reserve police officers who attend the same police academies and get the same continuing training as regular officers. They do the same job...they just don't get paid and they don't do it full time.
Now, having said the above, what I see as the only real difference between the volunteers and the full-timers like me (at least here in the west), is that we full-timers do this 10 hours a day, every day....and the volunteers do it maybe a couple of times a month. When you're doing a job every day, you're BOUND to be better at it than someone who only does it occasionally. But I think we should support the idea of the volunteers getting as much training as possible because when the fecal matter hits the air-movement device, we're both in the business of serving and protecting the public.

Even before this event and the recent charter change, the EOC had one seat for the 5 volunteer fire department's and one seat for the city fire department. The EOC under several directors has never taken the other districts seriously and it has lead to some interesting storm responses. Now to be fair, when asked to send someone into the EOC, the VFD's didn't always take it seriously either, it is rare that I see an actual chief officer there with the rest.
The fact remains that this being the first major drill under the new spirit of cooperation, it is questionable why some departments were left out.

One thing I noticed about the video is that it seemed a bit choppy. I assume that is due to editing, and having some bits removed for brevity. However that could make things worse as it actually shows more time between things shown on the video.

OK where to begin:
Flake the kinks out your hose. in the door is not the time for a nozzle change. Also the combination tip works just fine if thats what you got on the hose. Don't just stand around. 1:00 min mark: don't leave your helmet on the ground and walk away from it. After 2:00 mark, is that sound electric wires arcing or just random background sounds the mic is picking up? don't shoor water at a sparking wire. No communications about venting. I will assume from the looks of things that a inside attack was not going down so it is not like you were cordinationg with a hose team 2:51 min in. Don't do that with your nozzle, ever 3:40 min in. Don't ask for more pressure if you have 20 kinks in your line. Unkink your line. Try not to let the fire get away from you door control Fire - don't just stare at it, put it out. alot of non-fighting going on here. Choose the right size hose for the job. Where is your 2 1/2"? Big fire means big water. OK i know some of these are kinda knit picky but i just gave it a quick watching. I am not gonna say you guys suck or that was horrible cause everyone in the county is working short staffed and heavily rely on mutaul aid. Was this firemen a probie? was it his first job? These are all things that change the way we view these "mistakes" . I would expect a fresh out FF1 kid to not know everything there is to know. He is gonna stand around and wait to be told. A seasoned guy is gonna get it done and move with purpose and speed.
I hope this is seen as constructive. I tried to give real advice and insight. All we can see is a snippit of the whole picture. clearly there is alot going on in this house (as seen form the smoke coming from otehr parts of house).

I am generally in favor of anything that keeps taxes low, but in reality this just means they will be raised and directed elsewhere.
I find it odd that police and fire contracts were picked for this, yet other municipal contracts were left out.
Now the big question that nobody wants to ask is why raises were so big (if in fact they were?) in NJ? Was it because municipalities take years to negotiate a contract and by the time it gets settled the raises which are generally reasonable per year look really big on paper? Is it because the cities have been steadily cutting benefits and raiding pensions to the point where these raises are offsetting other expenses the employees are now inuring?
Lately it is the fashionable thing to blame unions for the government's mismanagement. Even if the unions bear some of the blame, they certainly do not bear it all.

Date: 06/21/2014
Time: 22:09
Location: 15 Pershing Av
District: Belltown
Units: E41, E7, E6, E8, E1 (RIT), T45, T1, R44, R1, E42, U4 (DC), U8 (Safety), C411 (District Chief), C412 (District Assistant Chief), U418 (District Safety), FM102 (Fire Marshal), M3, M901 (EMS Supervisor)

Description: Multiple calls for fire in rear of occupied single family residence. Safety Officer on scene reporting working fire shortly after dispatch.
22:10 Dispatched as reported fire
22:13 U418 on Scene Declaring Working Fire
22:14 EMS dispatched
22:41 MARC Time discontinued
22:54 E1 Relocating to Belltown FD
22:55 EMS released
23:17 FM102 on scene
00:14 Incident Closed

Date: 06/21/2014
Time: 22:09
Location: 15 Pershing Av
District: Belltown
Units: E41, E7, E6, E8, E1 (RIT), T45, T1, R44, R1, E42, U4 (DC), U8 (Safety), C411 (District Chief), C412 (District Assistant Chief), U418 (District Safety), FM102 (Fire Marshal), M3, M901 (EMS Supervisor)

Description: Multiple calls for fire in rear of occupied single family residence. Safety Officer on scene reporting working fire shortly after dispatch.
22:10 Dispatched as reported fire
22:13 U418 on Scene Declaring Working Fire
22:14 EMS dispatched
22:41 MARC Time discontinued
22:54 E1 Relocating to Belltown FD
22:55 EMS released
23:17 FM102 on scene
00:14 Incident Closed

The wayward K9 officer has been located!!!!!! He is safe and back with his handler.

Someone should call the cops...

Great read.
While we're talking about Andy, why are companies still using combination nozzles for structural firefighting? The facts are all there about solid stream nozzles but I almost think some places refuse to believe they are superior or they're in complete denial. You see departments purchasing the 'latest' TFTs or Akron Brass combination nozzles because they have this gizmo or that. Sure, they have their place but not for our bread and butter structural fires. I believe that most of these newer fog nozzles are nothing more than a way to make a buck off an (almost) obsolete product.

I agree that we must constantly look at ourselves to see what is going wrong...or maybe it's better put to say, look at what we can do better. I think that is the point of Mr. Rhodes' blog. I happen to agree with him that in some cases we are emphasizing the bail out/self rescue aspects of our job over honing and perfecting the most basic of fireground evolutions....stretching the line. No matter what every working fire gets a line stretched and it is the first line that makes or breaks the fire. Fact is, more lives are saved, including more FFs lives, by proper and timely hose selection and placement than by any other means, so shouldn't the skills necessary to get the right amount of the right hose to the right place be practiced accordingly? I believe they should and I also believe that this is not always the case.
Now that's not to say self survival training isn't important, God knows it is and it should be practiced regularly...there are a good number of FFs walking around today that prove that...but that training should be balanced with constant training to ensure that every aspect of the most basic and necessary evolution that we do at every fire is done well at every fire. I think it's a safe to say that some, maybe many, FDs have let the basic skills of hose work slip because of the fact that they are basic skills and it's assumed everyone is well versed at performing them. The truth is that's not always the case and I would bet my last dollar that every FD has had cases that prove that point (i.e. short stretches, wrong sized line, line in the wrong place, not enough manpower dedicated to placing the line...I think you get the idea).
Maybe instead relying on standards, or spending hour after hour learning how to "save ourselves" we could put some of that time to better use learning how to not get ourselves in a position to need those techniques in the first place. And the most basic and simplest way to do that (and save the most lives) is to be masters of hose work.
As Mr. Fredericks so eloquently put it "If you put the fire out there's no reason to jump out of windows."

What should be taught to everyone regardless of experience is the need for something to be done. Not meaning do something if you are just standing there, but make sure everything that should be done is being completed.
Adequate line like this story exposed.
Adequate egress.
Adequate manpower for relief.
Adequate monitoring of members levels of exhaustion.
I still to this day can not figure out some things that are different between fighting a fire at work and fighting one for free (volunteer). Always a difference even though the only thing you need is water. Ill ask a main pet peeve in another thread now that I think about it.

I used to have a copy of the old Fire Officer Handbook that the government published decades ago (we may be talking about the same publication?). It had a chapter about how to respond to UFO crashes. It was weird that this chapter existed, but the government also denied the existence of aliens.

Remember when this sort of backfired on them? The same year they put that out there were a few high profiles cannibalism attacks across the country. The CDC actually had to release a statement that there was no such thing as Zombies.
I have also heard there is a federal publication on how your fire department should handle a UFO invasion, but I have never seen that one first hand.

Date: 05/28/14
Time: approximately 23:00
Location: 11 Camelot Drive
District: Warwick FD
Units: Fire: Warwick FD (E-634.635, 636, T-633, TA-639, R-637, M-640, M-644, Car 1, Car 2, Car 3), Chester FD (E-914, ta-?) Goshen FD (TA-935), Monroe FD (E-543, F.A.S.T.), Pine Island FD (E-651, Car 3), Florida FD (TA-610)
EMS: Warwick EMS (202, 203, 204 (rehab unit))
Standbys: Greenwood Lake Standby Warwick FD, Pine Island EMS (301) standby Warwick EMS
Coordinators: 36-16, 36-1, EMS 1

Description: Warwick FD initially dispatched for a garage fire, 911 filling out the first alarm. Warwick Safety 1 and a past chief on scene, reporting a 3 story building with active fire on all floors and on/through the roof, several vehicles well involved, and unknown entrapment, requesting 2nd alarm. Safety 1 able to confirm all residents out and accounted for. Fire knocked down in approximately 1 hour. 1 fire fighter transported to the ER for a facial laceration secondary to tripping over a line. Warwick EMS assisted Red Cross in relocating subjects due to several residents having severe physical disabilities.

Date: 5/26/14
Time:1220hrs
Location:Calf Pasture Beach
District: Norwalk, CT
Units:Norwalk Fire C2,Engine 3,Marine 238,Norwalk Pd, Wilton Fd Dive Team,Westport fd Dive Team, Darien Fd,,Trumbull Fd Cascade unit, US Coast Guard Boat and Helo

Description:Overturned kayak off of Calf Pasture beach with 4 occupants on board.3 occupants recovered with life jackets on. 4 th victim with no life jacket witnessed going under water and not resurfacing. Multiple dive teams operating in conjuction with US Coast Guard for grid search.

Fire / EMS departments only. We don't want to share location information of members with the general public.

As we all prepare celebrate Memorial day 2014 with barbecues, parades and a day off I thought it might be fitting to put this day in perspective with a few facts.

1) Memorial Day was originally known a Decoration Day because it was a day when family and friends would gather to decorate the graves of the fallen as a remembrance. Food was often taken along and set out on sheets in the grass to foster a sense of community.

2) While the first Decoration Day events were held after the American Civil War in both the North and South, Waterloo New York was officially credited by Congressional act in 1966 as the birthplace of the tradition
3) A day set aside to remember the sacrifices of those lost became a national event in 1868

4) The term Memorial Day was first used in 1882 although for many the older term of Decoration Day remained in use until after World War 2. Memorial Day became the official name by Federal law in 1967

5) Traditionally Memorial Day is May 30. This along with 3 other holidays was changed to a specified Monday in 1971 by Federal law to allow for convenient 3 day weekends.

6) On Memorial Day, the flag of the United States is raised briskly to the top of the staff and then solemnly lowered to the half-staff position, where it remains only until noon. The half-staff position remembers those who gave their lives in service of their country. At noon, their memory is raised by the living, who resolve not to let their sacrifice be in vain, but to rise up in their stead and continue the fight for liberty and justice for all.

7) And most important of all:
Since the birth of our great nation 1,321,612 Americans have given their lives to protect our freedoms and defend our country. We owe them all a debt that we can never repay. But we can and should remember. So before we drink that beer or eat that burger let us take just a moment to honor their memory and their sacrifice by saying thank you.

To all those who have made the ultimate sacrifice for our Nation. Thank you for your service and thank you for my freedom

God bless America.

Interesting conversation...
First and foremost, i do not like mmq'ing and do not know the particulars about this fire. Secondly, the amount of time I have being a firefighter is infinitesimal and I've only been to a handful of real butt-whipping jobs, but do see my share of work from time to time. I don't know how many firefighters are arriving on Hartsdale's initial assignment. I don't know what type of conditions were present on arrival. I don't know if this fire was in the incipient, flashover, or transitioning into the full growth stage. I do not know the smoke condition that was present. And I don't know if a civilian offering information is always 100% correct. From the picture outside it doesn't look to be to to much but i could be totally wrong... If the chief wants to do a 360, that's at his discretion, not that i feel that this is always necessary on the onset with a "known life hazard" but someone should be doing it in the early stages of the operation. What I do know is that pulling up to a fire with a handful of men and trying to bring an advanced fire under control is no easy task! So kudos to Hartsdale FD for making the grab and saving that woman's life. After all, that's our job!
I also know that... The fire goes as the first line goes. However, if and when you are presented with a situation such as arriving to a fire with limited manpower and are presented with a known life hazard, if you do not have the manpower to simultaneously stretch the first line and start a primary, the known life hazard always takes precedence over all other operations and must be immediately addressed. If the house burns to the ground in the process, oh well! If a chief does a 360 and reports fire issuing from a window, it presents a much less volatile environment for us firefighters and makes an aggressive search that much easier because the fire is venting and you won't have worry about that dense turbulent smoke that might otherwise be present, violently waiting to light up and burn your ass. If your first due engine is equipped with a 24 which I'd imagine it is and a known life hazard does exist, you should also be considering entering that window and isolating that room to conduct a primary (P.S. there's a great vid on the internet from a job i think on LI where a fireman does a great job saving a baby VEIS'ing from the 4 side of a peaked cape).
What "everybodygoes" does point out which is an excellent point is knowing your buildings! Besides all the other ranting the probies get when they show up to the fh about shutting their mouths, showing up, and constantly being on the move, I always add in what I believe are a few very important concepts a firefighter should know. Knowing your buildings, their inherent layouts, and reading smoke. If you can do those things very well, everything else will become 2nd nature through drilling, talking shop and plain old experience over time.
There are many different types of building out there but lets focus on PD's cause that seems to be the bread n' butter round here. Due to construction, alternations, additions, and our poor economy, anything is possible (Beware of Taxpayers!!!! cannot emphasize enough!) Knowing the buildings in your first due and outlying area will help you understand their building construction; Legacy vs. contemporary, fire spread, number of beds n baths you need to search, alternative egress and ingress points, height; what portables will reach which floor; windows/roof AND where the interior stairs are!!
Smoke is another biggie. Smoke by color and density amongst a couple other characteristics is going to tell you 99% of the time where the fire is, what it's doing, what's burning, what stage the fire's in, and where it's traveling to. Once you've read the building and the smoke, the engine will know where to stretch to locate, confine, extinguish, and the truck will know where to start their search for not only the victims but the fire, and where to go to when searching for extension.
So Let's turn this conversation a little more positive and hear more from the really salty guys, cause i know there are plenty of old timers on here and they have plenty of untapped knowledge.... Shoot------> oh wait, this is ny, cant do that anymore LOL

Also remember that the information from the public while well intentioned may not be accurate. In this weeks news was an incident at a mall reported as an active shooter, because people heard the tires pop on a car fire outside the mall and stampeded out of the mall.
Off the top of my head I can think of two times I got reports of fires with people trapped that were not the case (there are probably more). Once it was reported as multiple people trapped in an attic that was on fire. The actual scene was a small fire in the attic but by no means heavy fire conditions, and the report of people trapped from a homeowner who knew he had workers in the attic and thought they must be trapped. The foreman was on scene and had accounted for all his crew. The other one was a report of a house fire with the wife outside reporting her husband trapped inside. Again the actual fire was relatively small, lots of smoke but what amounted to a small electrical fire in equipment connected to a fish tank in the basement. As it turned out the wife came home, opened the door and saw the smoke, so she backed out and called 9-1-1. She based her report of her husband being trapped on the fact that his work van was in the driveway. He was no home at the time of the fire. In both of these cases they were well intentioned but inaccurate, I can't say that was the case with hearing pounding at a window, but I would not base a one man entry without a RIT on that little information. That is very far from a known hazard.
Think about the reverse situation. Same call for the fire but this time the neighbor promises us that the resident is not home, although he doesn't know here she is. He is certain she is not inside. Would we use that as a basis to not perform a search? Of course not, because we understand that even first hand information is not always right. So if you don't take his word that she is outside, then you can't take it that she is inside. You can however do an aggressive and thorough search and hopefully save a life or two.
Nice job by HFD!

In radio and voice contact is still considered supervision. If you are not comfortable doing a search alone you should resign.

Date: 5-14-14
Time: 0830 hrs
Location: 25 Turnberry Drive (St Andrews Golf Course Condos) C/S Jackson Ave.
District: Hastings/Ardsley (Unincorporated Greenburgh)
Units: (See below)

Description: Hastings dispatched dual response with Ardsley for working fire w/ possible subject trapped in a private elevator. Upon arrival of Hastings IC found heavy smoke and fire showing from three story wood frame townhouse style structure (end unit) w/ attached exposure. IC requesting Con Ed Gas forthwith. 3 members from Hastings FD Engine 45 made entry and removed the 72 y/o female victim from the second floor. As they were exiting the structure and handing off victim to Greenburgh PD EMS there was an explosion intensifying the fire (unknown cause of explosion ATT). Female victim and 1 Greenburgh EMS EMT w/ smoke inhalation. All other residents in neighboring units safely evacuated before the explosion. Fire is a defensive operation with 3 ladder pipes operating and several lines stretched. Structure deteriorating during operation, partial collapse of structure.

Units Operating:
Hastings FD Engine 44, 45, 46, Ladder 22, Rescue 100, C-218 Full Department Response (Dual response w/Ardsley)
Ardsley FD Ladder 50, Engine 164, Engine 165, C-201 Full Department Response (Dual response w/ Hastings)
Dobbs Ferry FD Engine 48 (FAST), Engine 49
Hastings FD EMS 62-B-1
Empress EMS 43-M-1, Tac 1 (BLS Ambulance), Medic 30 (ALS Ambulance), Paramedic Supervisor
Scarsdale EMS 79-A-1
Greenburgh PD EMS Car 75 (Paramedic), Car 79 (Ambulance)
Greenburgh PD Special Ops Tech Rescue Unit, Collapse Unit, Hazmat Decon Unit
Greenburgh PD Multiple PD units, including Cascade unit and Mobile Command Center
Yonkers PD MCI Bus
WCDES Battalion 12 (Acting Battalion 14), C&O Team
WCPD Arson K-9 (Daisy)

Units Relocated:
Irvington FD Engine 177 (@Hastings FD)
Tarrytown FD Ladder 37 (@Hastings FD)
Elmsford FD Engine 137 (@Elmsford FD)
Fairview FD Engine 174 (@Dobbs Ferry FD HQ)

**Please PM w/ updates or corrections**