AFS1970

Can anyone explain to me what this fascination is with red lights? Why would someone join any agency, exclusively for red lights?

You could volunteer as an EMT, but your corps would need to have the state certify your personal vehicle a a corps fly car. of become a Chief officer of an FD or Ambulance corps

Date: 11/20/17
Time: 1020hrs
Location: 463 Temple Hill Rd
District: Vails Gate/Town of New Windsor
Battalion: 4
Channel:
Weather: 
Units: VGFD (Car-2 is IC), New Windsor, Washingtonville, Coldenham, Cornwall-on-Hudson, City of Newburgh, Air Guard, Castle Point, 36-1, 36-13, others 
Writer:  BFD1054
Description: Working Fire in a 300x200 Commercial structure 
1045hrs-3rd Alarm requested. 
 - Staging area will be the New York Life building across from the fire scene.
 
1057hrs-M/E Engine to set up an LZ at the Temple Hill School for an inbound Medevac.
 
1130hra-Command requesting tanker task force to the scene.
 
Numerous ambulances requested for multiple injuries 
 
**Im monitoring and only getting bits
and pieces

Band?
 

My department in Michigan is kind of similar. 7 full-time total, 2 per shift with a swing to cover vacations/sick time. 20 paid on call. Recall is when all call page is transmitted. Residency requirements for full time is within 20 miles of city limits. Three live outside the city. One comes back in for about every all call fire. One does every once in a while. Last one never does. We really only have three that will come back regularly. The kicker is they're the only ones who can drive trucks. They don't come back only two trucks get out. And they're the ones preventing on calls from being able to drive.
 
It bugs me when guys join department's that do rely on call backs for stuff but never respond for them. You knew when you joined there would be call backs. No one forced you to take the job.

I am not in Westchester County, however, where I am the following is the norm:
 
1) Most departments have minimal on-duty staff. Some have vollies to supplement but not all have vollies.
2) Every department has recalls. Members use either their personal cell phones to receive the request OR have a Minitor pager.
3) There is no requirement to come back for duty. Some members use recall as their 2nd job and come in a lot, others don't come in at all and may have their own business such as plumber or carpenter.
4) Many departments have no residency requirements and they work 24 on/ 24 off / 24 on / 5 days off. This leads to members living 45 minutes away in a different county and they are not even in a position for recall.
5) Most departments have a recall hierarchy. Example: If Group 1 is on-duty, then Group 2 may be the primary recall group. The first request goes to them. If no one calls in within 2 minutes, then Group 3 is the secondary recall group. They get paged out and if no one calls in within 2 minutes, then a recall for all groups is sent out. Usually these requests go out for a certain number of members. Example: 3 needed for station coverage and the first 3 to call in get the coverage.
6) Structure fire calls go to full-department recalls immediately and then it's a "you all come." Anybody and everybody can respond.
7) One disadvantage to the whole system is that there may be 2 or 3 calls for station coverage during the day and people are quick to jump on that. They get their hours in and then they turn off their phone/pager at night. Recalls for manpower after midnight and this includes structure fires will usually get very minimal recall. There was a nursing home fire (contained to one room) at 3 AM and a 2nd Alarm was struck. Only 2 off-duty members came in to help out. This department did not have vollies. Mutual Aid was used almost exclusively.
8) My only complaint is that many of the department members don't want more people hired because that would cut into their recalls. The more people on-duty, the less need for recalls. But then they cherry-pick their calls and you may have 10 off-duty members show up for a 2 pm fire and only 2 members show up to a 2 am fire. Unfortunately it's all about them and their bottom line. There seems to be less and less commitment to coming in when "the poop is hitting the fan." As for me, if a 2nd Alarm is struck, I feel a moral obligation to get up and respond no matter what time of day or night. It's the system that's been set up and some effort should be given in responding "for the good of the community." They seem to want it both ways, "If it's convenient for me and I'm short on funds I'll go. If it's not convenient then I won't go." In my area it's only a matter of time before the public becomes dissatisfied with the response to some pretty serious calls and manpower per shift will have to be increased. 
9) Departments in my area are staffed with anywhere from 3 on-duty to 12-on duty. The smaller departments will recall 3 for coverage once units are committed (car fire, MVA, etc.). The larger departments won't recall until available manpower falls below a certain number, 6 as an example.
10) Vollies only used for full-department recalls, not for station coverage and not to fill open shifts. 

I think we just watched a very tangible example of some of the insanity taking hold on the fire service.
 
This Chief is all too proud of his accomplishment here, but he should have taken a break from digesting every "trend" in the fire service before he spec'd his new machine.
 
SCBAs taken out of cab, nothing new.
 
Phoenix and several large Department in Southern California have done this for years. However, taking them out due to carcinogen concerns is a really weak case.
 
What does the Chief intend to do about the PPE worn by firefighters? Think that might be a sink for carcinogens? How bout the bottom of your boots, ever really think what is hanging out there?
 
I'd be a lot less concerned about a hard surface such as an SCBA bottle or harness that can be wiped down after each use, then the proper gear cleaning habits or hygiene of a pretty fluid and dynamic group of end-users of this rig.
 
Not to mention, the extra long cab to accommodate the new SCBA compartment and the top mount pump panel. He just built a rig that is probably running upwards of 36-38 feet overall length. Although it is Texas, I am sure the guy driving the truck will really appreciate the wheel base the next time he has to try and turn into the driveway and fit between the brick pillars of every Ewing estate look-alike. 
 
 

The Community VFD is just outside of Houston, TX.  Their new Engine 91 looks like it was thoroughly thought out, especially when it comes to the health and safety of its firefighters.  I thought I'd share the video walk-around:
 
**This video was originally posted by Churchville Fire Equipment of Churchville, NY through Pierce Manufacturing**
 
Never mind the use of space in the compartments, there are few other things that really stuck out to me as I watched the video.  The first is the painted bumper edges, giving firefighters extra grip when stepping up on the bumper and tailboard.  The next is the stepped tailboard, allowing easier access to the roof and hosebed.  The last, and the major point of the video, is placing the SCBA in an exterior compartment, keeping firefighters seated and belted while the rig is in motion, and keeping the dirty packs outside of the passenger compartment.  Oh, did I mention the air conditioning that runs while the rig is plugged into shore power?

The old Rescue will stay in fort lee til sometime in November New Rescue goes. To Rescue 1 for its 30 day check up & then is slated to be put up for sale Have also heard it might be headed to Louisiana There's an Ex member of dept that lives down there interested  in it  Hope it finds a good home

Here's links to stories about ceremonies that took place Yesterday The Ridgefield 5 that gave Their lives that morning in Cliffside Park NJ  May they continue resting in peace http://englewood.dailyvoice.com/police-fire/videos-5-firemen-killed-in-cliffside-park-bowling-alley-blaze-honored/724310/

It's also important to remember that the union is there to protect the process.  If you don't protect the process when an employee is disciplined, particularly when the employee may very well deserve the discipline or termination, then you set a dangerous precedent whereby someone in the future who doesn't deserve to be disciplined or terminated is harmed. 
 
It may not be easy or popular to represent an employee who may deserve the discipline or termination, but they have the right to representation and the union has an obligation to do so.  It's not the union's fault if the employer fails to follow proper procedure and the discipline or termination is overturned.  It's all no different than a person accused of a crime having the right to an attorney, the defense attorney having the obligation to represent them to the best of their ability and the police and DA having to follow the proper procedures in building and trying their case in order to avoid it being thrown out on a technicality.

 
That hasn't exactly been what I've seen from the large city near me.  They've had several employees across different city departments that have been reinstated, largely due to violations of due process, in some cases, rushing into terminating the employee.

 
Because ISO isn't about firefighting ability or even capability, it's about meeting textbook benchmarks and checking the box. I've seen a good number of ISO Class 1 rated FDs burn buildings to the ground on a regular basis. But hey at least the residents benefit from the rating in their premiums.

Who bought it?

Thanks Peter for the kind words....I understand what you and Alan are getting at....still I will rest when at least the official IAFF total is 344....try to see it from my point of view.....FDNY can do as it pleases but the IAFF is supposed to represent all members...

It is unfortunate that some are not "officially" remembered, but like Alan I don't believe that's because there's a concerted effort to omit them. Some may have been overlooked but the thing is they can really only be forgotten if we let them be, so let us promise ourselves that we will not let that happen. Of course the 343 hold a well deserved special place for us as firefighters and we should honor their sacrifice and their heroism until the day we die. But so too must we honor the other 2653 who perished along with them that day. All had their lives cut short for no other reason than they were at the WTC or the Pentagon or on flight 93 that fateful day. Every one of the 2996 people who were murdered on 9/11 had a family and friends and colleagues who were left with a huge unfillable void in their lives by these senseless deaths. Each and every one of those people deserves to be remembered not just as a statistic, but as a person with hopes and dreams and a destiny left unfulfilled. Kieth Roma is one of them and if he cannot be "officially" recognized so be it, but he and all of the victims can be remembered by each of us here. Whether we do it in public or in private, as long as we remember those lost they will all continue to live on.
 
What we do now, how we remember, becomes more important with each passing year. There will come a day when no one alive was alive on Sept. 11, 2001, so how we remember the events and victims of 9/11 today will be all that future generations have...let us be sure to leave them with something worthy of the lives that were taken.
 
 
 
 
 

I remember a campaign shortly after September 11, to increase the number to 345, to include 2 fire wardens who were recently retied FDNY FF's but as building fire wardens report to the command post and work withing the ICS structure. That campaign did not succeed, and did not include Kieth Roma. I have seen patches that have the state court officer patch on them and others that do not. Sadly this attack was such a tragedy that many inadvertently fail to remember the full scope of it. I don't think there is a concerted effort to not remember anyone.

As we approach Sept.11th.  let us not forget Keith Roma NYFP #2...and all the brothers and sisters..who gave all....god save the USA

 

 
I agree with what you say about not having enough manpower, or let alone qualified manpower, to conduct a certain job.  But, sometimes you have to try something new to fix the problem.  Putnam County has determined that they need a technical rescue team to fill some of the holes in local responses.  This brings together county and local resources to perform a job.  Yes, it's new.  Does it fix the problem?  We need to wait and see how this team actually performs.  You can't judge an up-and-coming quarterback based on how he practices or what jersey he wears.  You have to see him play!
 
This team is in fact in it's crawling stage.  It still has to find members, train them to a specified level, and retain those members and their level of training.  Once they're at a point where the County can say, "Go!" then we can see how they perform under pressure and how well or poorly their responses are.  We cannot Monday morning quarterback something that hasn't happened (nor should we once the team is in place).
 
And, I don't think Putnam County is taking on more they can handle.  Nor do I think that the responders that are going to sign up for the team are going to be taking on more than they can handle.  Yes, you're going to lose some of the initial members due to time commitments or other issues, but you're still going to see a very gung-ho group follow through with the training.  In all honesty, if it's really not working out five years from now, the County can redevelop the team or the idea to make it work for them.  There's always room for learning, and there's always room for development.

First off I can honestly say that I would never take that position. But where you said, "challenges to overcome in doing anything new". I believe you shouldn't attempt to do anything new before you fix the problems that you have. It doesn't matter what rig goes out the door, rescue,engine or ladder, if that's not properly staffed with people on it with a certain level of training, what good is that. Thats unacceptable and dangerous. I feel each department should look at themselves and admit there's a problem. Is going paid or even a combo department the answer I don't know. I'm just saying you need to crawl before you walk. Try not to take on more than you can handle.

I guess my only question to all the Naysayers is what other option is there? I suppose you could call another county mutual aid for a tech-rescue team but that would take time. I don't know the financial status of Putnam County or it's towns, but it sounds like if they are going to hire career firefighters to cover even the basic calls because of lack of manpower they need to concentrate on the basic daily responses with the career staff before creating a tech-rescue team. 
 
So let's assume it's a horrible, terrible, dumb idea to create the tech-rescue team with volunteers from the departments within Putnam County. No-way, no-how!! They'll buy people cool t-shirts anyhow to appease the 75% of the people who are in it for that.  So there is nothing.
 
Now, let's take the example of the construction worker who is up to his neck in a collapsed trench. Time is an important factor here. The call goes out to the local department at 1pm on a Tuesday afternoon. The first-due engine pulls up and has 3 on-board (Joe who is retired truck driver, Tom who is Captain and works in the local deli, and Sue who is an EMT). None of these members have experience or training in any type of tech-rescue. So they walk up to the guy who's buried and do what? There is no Putnam County team to request, mutual aid tech-rescue is too far away to be of any good, and the engine crew is not up to the task. The captain tells the worker there's nothing they can do for them and the crew climbs back on the engine and returns to quarters. That, of course, is ludicrous!!!
 
If there were a tech-rescue team, this is probably an incident they could handle. Sure the response might not be immediate, but in the meantime another department could be called in mutual aid to the scene to have manpower there and perhaps at least stabilize the scene until tech-rescue shows up. I know nothing of tech-rescue, but perhaps boards could be built up around the worker so more dirt doesn't fall on him. Maybe the EMT could get close enough to slip an O2 mask on the guy. Maybe they could prepare the scene by moving dump trucks and other vehicles out of the immediate area to give the tech-rescue team clear access to the scene. Maybe they could lay out tools on a tarp which the tech-rescue team might need (shovels, pails, ropes, etc.). 
 
So I ask the people who are against this, what are the alternatives? Not go? Go but then return? Have Lawn-Chair 1 respond so they can put out lawn chairs and tables and serve lemonade and sandwiches while they watch the guy die?
 
Very simple solution which I stated before:
 
1) If it's a minor situation like a child has his hand stuck in a bicycle chain, the first due engine can most likely handle that.
 
2) If it's a more serious incident like a guy buried up to his neck in a trench, the first due engine assesses the situation, calls for the tech-team, calls a mutual aid engine and tries to at least stabilize the scene and cause no further harm.
 
3) If the tech-rescue team arrives on location and it's a guy down an abandoned 200 foot deep well that is caving in, the tech-rescue team may decide they need heavier equipment and call additional tech-rescue teams and call on the private industry who has the equipment to deal with this. Perhaps they would have to dig a hole 50 feet away and then tunnel in to get him out. A very extended operation. But, the first due engine identifies the problem and calls for help. They immediately cordon off the zone so no one else falls in or loosens anything else which will fall in. They ascertain the number of victim(s), age(s), medical condition(s), etc. When the tech-rescue team shows up they realize they will need help and call for another tech-rescue team and ABC Drilling & Well Company. Perhaps the tech-team can feed a camera with audio down the hole to see if the person(s) are conscious and evaluate the situation. Who knows, maybe they could even snake an O2 mask down to the victim(s). The tech-team realizes its going to be an extended operation (perhaps 24 hours) and they set up a Planning & Logistics section and create an operational period chart. They may even call in an Incident Management Team.
 
It comes down to common sense, training, experience and knowing when "this is bigger than we can handle" be it the first due engine or the tech-rescue team. To do nothing you might as well nail the doors shut on the firehouse and have everyone volunteer at the local food bank; which by the way offers cool t-shirts too!!  

I like it - sharp looking truck. I'm not crazy about politicians putting their names on vehicles.

This reminds me of the talk of Haz-Mat responses back in the 1980's when departments were just getting involved in Haz-Mat responses. There were extreme ideologies back then as well. Some thought it was inevitable and something the fire service could not avoid. Others thought it was pure craziness and the barn doors should be kept shut if there was a green cloud floating through downtown. 
 
I think that starting a Tech-Rescue team is a good idea whether its career or volunteer. What are the alternatives? Have some child fall down a well and the totally untrained towns people gather together and try to form a human chain down into the well? With that being said, proper judgement has to be used by a Haz-Mat team or a Tech Rescue team when things are beyond their capability and that comes with training.  
 
If a local Haz-Mat team got called to a train derailment and there was some really severe Ethel-Methal Bad Stuff mixing with Super-Duper Sticky Stuff and it was obvious that special teams from the production companies and a professional clean-up crew would be needed to mitigate the situation, then perhaps the best approach would be to evacuate, pull-back and try to protect the environment if able to.
 
The same would hold true for a Tech-Rescue team. If they respond to an old excavation site to discover someone has fallen 100 feet into a 2 foot diameter hole, they may decide they need to call a professional excavating company and a professional rigging and shoring company to come in and assist. 
 
In both cases training, judgment and size-up are needed to determine, "can we handle this?" A chief wouldn't send a crew of firefighters into a fully-involved, collapsing house on a report someone was inside - same idea.
 

So it's pretty common elsewhere in the country to have teams made up of volunteers to handle the rescues of lost hikers and the other tech rescues that present themselves in the parks that have become more common.  These teams exist in places where all the fire departments are fully career and they work together on responses.  
 
An example.  
http://www.malibusar.org/Home.aspx