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Not 100% but the inspector and employee were rummaging through equipment in the back together... not an ambulance and no patient so no medical assistance necessary but could he have been playing AAA? Sure, but if he wasn't my original question still remains. I agree they can inspect anytime anywhere, that is clear, but no one has provided a law that specifically empowers them to pull over a vehicle on the road. As best I can tell it would appear to a grey area that is open to their interpretation.

So today I passed a new Ford Interceptor with lights on pulled off to the side of the road. When I got a closer look, it said State EMS. The inspector was in the process of checking a commercial agency's supervisor/first response vehicle. My questions is this, what authority if any do they have to pull over a vehicle? Inspect, by all means, but is there legal precedent for the DOH to pull over a vehicle? I have always of inspectors doing their work in ER bays or ambulance stations/bases. I'm assuming most people would pull over out of courtesy, but are they required to do so? Was this simply because there can't be a patient in a response vehicle?

Definitely still around as it is still actively marketed in dealers. What happens though if the local municipality does not/no longer uses the receivers, are the owners SOL?

There are certain situations during prisoner transport where stopping may be risk. And as for authorization, they are law enforcement officers with peace officer status in NYS...

From todays Daily News. Anyone have any comments on this? It seems odd.

The 411 on 911

Iselin, N.J.: Before anyone blames EMS for taking too long to respond to the tragic fire in the Rockaways, they should understand that firefighters are dispatched 10 minutes before EMS. That is to enable the firefighters to arrive and a) determine if it’s a fire and determine if there is a need for additional resources. Screaming, “Where’s EMS!” will not get EMS there in an instant. All it does is bring negative attention and danger to the EMS crew responding to the scene. And if the firefighters were that concerned, why didn’t they bring the children to the ambulance at their staging area? Marcella Rivera, FDNY EMT

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/april-25-horses-pineda-chelsea-clinton-article-1.1768173#ixzz2zw6FRzDJ

The moment you stop learning and analyzing is the day you should retire.

Multiple unconfirmed reports it's cancelled. NYT, NBC with Fox and CBS attributing quotes to the mayor. Still nothing on NYC or NYRR website yet.

Alot of visveral, and justified opinions here. Some questions/thoughts to ponder, and I by no means have made up my mind.

- Does the marathon pay for the OT? If so, then it would be incumbant on the Commissioner to tell the mayor he can not handle the request? If he didn't, why?

- Could the closures/traffic control be manned with fewer offlicers and or on duty local precinct officers and supplimented with other agencies such as CERT, Boy Scouts etc?

- Could EMS involvement be scaled back due to the large number of volunteers and the use of private ambulances?

- Does anyone have any evidence that resources are actually being diverted from legitimate recovery work as opposed to just being streched thin?

- The city can't actually cancel the marathon per-se as it does not run it, it can only withdraw the permit and or staffing.

- Does a million dollar donation from NYRR make up for not cancelling or postponing? That money could be put to good use, or is it blood money so to speak?

It's a interesting question, with both sides having very impassioned arguements.

So there is a small, but perhaps growing movement to postpone the marathon until Sandy recovery can get further along. There are suggestions that city resources allocated to the event should instead be dedicated to recovery. Mayor Bloomberg said that lots of small buisnesses depend on the some 47000 participants. Opponents claim its cold to think about sports when people have no homes. Thoughts?

Does the helmet really belong to the city? Up until the mid 1990's the city gave members a uniform allowance to purchase gear. At some point it switched to a quartermaster system some time around the introduction of bunker gear to the FDNY. Maybe someone can correct me if am wrong, but wasn't the quartermaster system funded by what would have been the members uniform allowance? What happens to a members pants, boots, coats, etc when a member retires? Does it get returned to the quartermaster for inspection and re-issue? member takes it with them? gives it to other members of the company? The city is just looking to make a buck on the backs of firefighters. The helmet has no value to them.

Now that's the first logical, non emotion driven response to this whole situatation. If this argument is correct, then members would have more of an arugment for keeping the helmets. If not, then clearly no one here has a grasp of economics. If we take that 5 year estimate on the low end, it costs money to do that, more so then if the department waits a few more years to implement a replacement cycle. If the department argument is that the 5 year mark is for member safety, then they pay a premium for that safety by replacing them so often. That being said, even though the department took the the responsibility of issuing uniform/equipment and therefore owns what it issues, it needs to be able to recoup some of the money associated with its chosen replacement timeline. Would it be nice if they were to give the old helmets to members when they replace them, the city is by no means obligated to do so. Members simply expecting to take what they want just because it was assigned to them is just as insulting to me tax payer as the their being insulted that the city wants them to pay for it.

A side note about uniform allowances: Definitely not a perfect system! I am sick of all public service agencies with allowances not enforcing proper uniform replacement rules. There should be no reason I should see veteran memebers with worn leather, gunked up boots, or ill fitting shirts on a regular basis. I realize uniform allowances are seen as a perk, but there must be a middle ground between a little extra cash every year and looking professional.

Yes they offer ALS in NYC, but as stated, each division is different. Some divisions will turf off to the private(s) or as a last resort call 911.

While I admit there might be some rural areas where waiting for pd backup might be an issue, it really is not an issue for EMS because if you need pd, you're not entering the scene. As an EMT, one of the greatest deterrents I have is not looking like a police officer and not being visibly armed. There is a calming effect on those in need that might be otherwise unwiling to speak to law enforcement, add the gun and you automatically resemble law enforcement, and waste valuable time and trust attempting to explain that you are not. Can it save a life? Unquestionably, but it can equally (and I think more likely) put you in danger. Since the law is simply repealing a ban, it doesn't provide any sort of law enforcement training that I would hope that ANYONE who is going to be in the position to use a weapon in the course of one's duty should have.

^{It's got nothing tto do with the city or how the memorial was designed, some people are just disprespectful period. I've been there twice, for the large amount of staff they have there, they seem to be doing an awful lot of nothing, no interpretation, no enforcement.. After the first incident with the school kids, there was an editorial from a retired Dep. Chief who summarized a sentiment I have heard before. This should be in the hands of the National Park Service, who run not only the Flight 92 National Memorial but as the chief mentioned World War II in the Pacific National Monument, (more commonly known as USS Arizona or Pearl Harbor). He was quite right in saying that the NPS does not tolerate any nonsense in running these sights and mantains a respecful and quiet atmosphere in deference to those lost.}

http://www.broadjam.com/artists/songs.php?artistID=16489&mediaID=109800

Cool song, thanks Ray!

Can I "backup my statements"? Will a dozen copied and pasted headlines and URL's in this forum convince you of the "tone" of the news reports I clearly see? Of course not. You see something entirely different.....you see a presumed innocent unarmed woman gunned down by cowboy cops. That is my point PRECISELY! We see the world in polar opposites! Some decades ago, people would see the actions of a "Ms. Sweetie Pie" and were outraged by HER BEHAVIOR! Yes! Can you imagine? Even BEFORE trial and conviction! All a person had to do is flee police after an armed carjacking, jeopardize hundreds of innocent Mothers and children on the street, then try to kill pursuing Cops, and society would be outraged! What a concept.....universal outrage at outrageous behavior....perhaps even discouraging further outrageous behavior in others via the collective outrage expressed. It's an ancient mechanism which used to encourage responsible, positive behavior in society.

No, I'm sorry, I can never "backup my statements" to your satisfaction since you see the world in a state "inverted" from my view. Go right ahead worshiping the bad guys (excuse me, the ALLEGED perpetrators with infinite rights and grievances) and demonizing the good guys, and enjoy whats coming as a result of that, because it is indeed coming.

Yes, url's would have satisfied me. Since you assumed a great deal about me, I'll assume that the articles don't exist or you simply don't wish to provide them because they don't support your claim. I'm not sure what you are upset about, because if you took a second and re-read what I had written you'll see that I said that I thought that most of the newspaper articles spent of their time highlighting the deceased criminal activities as opposed to trashing the officers. As for the rest of your statement, it's offbase and rather insulting. I NEVER glorified any criminal, and I most definitely did not demonize any police officers. I never referred to the cops as cowboys, I never referred to the perp as innocent or defended her actions in any way. I agree with Helicopper and the others, she most definitely set in motion the events that ultimately led to her death. I barely referred to the incident at all because quite frankly I don't have any issue with it. Personally, her actions are dispicible and anyone who resists should be taken down....with as much force as needed to ensure the arrest and everyone's safety. My issue is soley with statements such as she got what she deserved, or i'm glad she died. Those sort of statements do not serve anyone, anytime. Let me make it clear b/c apparently it has not been thus far, I was always and continue to refer to comments made post incident...not on scene, I am not saying treat a perp to a happy meal in the hopes they'll stop committing crimes and obey orders. Far from it, if anyone remembers the Sgt that was unfortunately filmed a month ago in Harlem, I think that was great and some folks need to be told in such a manner. And since someone felt the need to bring it up, I do have friends and family serving as officers, I respect what they do and hope they are safe each and every time they put on the uniform.

Nothing I say, or what any other police officer says for that matter, whether good or bad, is going to prevent a situation like this from happening again. People are going to do what THEY choose to do, and when someone make a conscious decision to flee the police, endanger the lives of everyone around them, and then endanger the lives of two Police Officers, they are going to reap what they sow.

It's pretty simple, when a Police Officer is pointing a firearm at you and is ordering you to get out of your vehicle, YOU DO IT! Call it common sense, call it respect for law enforcement, call it whatever you want. When YOU choose to ignore a police officer's lawful orders and then try to continue to flee placing the officer in fear for his/her life, YOU just bought the ticket for the show.

I'm going to stand by my comments as Judge, Jury, and Executioner in this case because the FACTS appear to me to be evidently clear as to what transpired.

That's where you're wrong. In public service, a good percentage of what we do is apperarance i.e. even if we can not help a person, if we appear to do so either because we've made an effort or at least empathized with the person...it defuses the situation. Now, before you get on me about being all touchy feeling with a criminal who threatened the life of a cop and doesn't deserve that, that is not what I am suggesting. What I am suggesting is sound judgement in attitudes and comments in view of the public. I'll say it again, everyone should obey all lawful orders given by police officers, but as you can clearly see, (or perhaps not) that willingness to obey orders is the problem. Now, while I agree much of that can be attributed to a hardcore criminal element, there is a portion of that that can be attributed to mistrust of the police, The former you are abselubtely right, nothing anyone does or says will change that, the latter however, may be maleable with work and the elimitaiton of comments that encourage that mistrust. While you may stand by your comments, unfortunately none of those three truly fit the job of police officer.

Adlere21, can you back up your statements? All the media I've seen seems to be placing any outrage squarely away from the officer, academia likewise.

Without repeating the sentiments of GrumpyFF, M'Ave, and Crime Cop.... I will say that unless you put on that shield and gun belt every day and deal with the outlandish nature of working as a police officer in an urban environment, then we don't care about what anyone has to say about what a police officer says about an individual who attempts to kill one of our brother or sister police officers.

Did she deserve to die? She made that decision for herself... it wasn't the "trigger happy Po-Po". When she chose to flee the police in a stolen vehicle, refused to surrender to the police when ordered, and then placed two police officers in harms way with a moving vehicle, she asked for it and the police delivered, plain and simple. If she didn't deserve to die, then she should have just stopped the vehicle, shut it off, and exited the vehicle when ordered to by the Police, period

Did she deserve to go to jail... you answered most likely? Most likely? How about definitely. She was driving a stolen vehicle that the owner positively identified her as the one who stole the vehicle at gunpoint. Doesn't get much more clear cut then that.

Bunch of Monday Morning Quarterbacks who have never walked a beat... someone threatens the life of a police officer, they DESERVE what they have coming to them because THEY asked for it.

Try reading again. I never suggested that her actions were not wrong or unlawful, and I fully agree she should have complied with any lawful order that was given. I said most likely because she had not yet been convicted, an arrest being the first step to a nice long stay in a state sponsored facility. You'll find that I did not question the officer's actions, what I quesitoned was the "monday mornning quaterbacking" by fellow officers. Can you, or anyone please enlighten me as to how officers coming off as judge, jury and executioner with comments like yours is helpful to preventing a situation like this from happening again, or as I asked earlier, keep the officers safe?

I can't believe people are crying for this woman....

...this is pretty simple, if u drive the car you stole at gunpoint through red lights, collide with a minivan, hit a cop with the car door and then try to drive away in reverse, you might get shot. Oh, and you're going to deserve it too.

It's that simple, without bringing in that this animal was headed to court Friday to face multiple violent felony charges. All of this and people still cry and are quoted as saying, "she had her whole life ahead of her". I'm going to speak for society and say that I'm glad her life was snuffed out!

I agree she had a criminal record AND more importantly was actively disobeying lawful orders and resisting arrest. Was she an upstanding citizen? Abseutely not. Did she deserve to go to jail? Most likely. Did she deserve to die? Abselutely not. I in no way condone the protests in their current form (simply anti NYPD, anti government, anti law, anti white.) but I do know that attitudes as callous, short sighted, and downright stupid as yours are exactly the reason why the NYPD can not overcome the extreme mistrust from the minority community. You mention what if it was your family that she carjacked, an excellent point...now try on the other boot. What if if it was your family member dead? I would hazard the guess both you, and her family would rather have an incacerated loved one rather than a dead one. My point is, regardless of the circumstances (which in this case do not seem clear cut as to the reason behind the weapon discharge) the death is tragic; everyone is someone's daughter, mother sister etc. You don't have to agree with her life, or even be sad about her death, but if you're in public service at least be aware of how imflamotory comments such as that are rarely useful, or safe for the brothers and sisters dealing with the aftermath.

I think NYS Police should send the chief of the FD a bill for tying up4 ST Troopers at his fire scene.

Using 4 troopers at the scene? Obviously they were all there already either by dispatch or their own accord if they could man a line on the spur of the moment, so either way you look at it the tax dollars were not wasted.

What's next, a bill from Sanitation every time NYPD asks them to block of streets with the salters during a parade, marathon or security detail? Or how about a bill every times FDNY goes w/ the NYPD as a an air recon chief? Excessive anything is never good, but once again the bottom like is public and responder safety first and foremost.

Correct, there were not enough ff's on the scene. However,the only people here who missed the boat to which you are referring are those who can't see past their own preconceptions and feel it necessary to bash the offlcers for their good deed. The article, and this thread for that matter are about the actions of the troopers, not the inactions of a department which clearly needs some assitance. What if lives were in danger on the call referred to in the article...do you still stand by your statement that no non FD personnel should be used?? By that token, as an EMT I can never have anyone else other than my crew hold stabilization, put pressure on a wound or grab a backboard for a lift assist on a heavy patient....sometimes it just doesn't work that way. Sure, address any overarching, systemic issues but in the mean time there's a job to be done...

Keeping real simple, we all do what we do for two reasons, to help others and to go home at the end of our tours. Bottom line thats exactly what the troopers did. They helped out their brother and sisters in emergency service and the public they all serve and helped everyone including themselves get home safely. Let those who would not want the same done for them cast the first stone....

Wow, never heard such a uproar about a somewhat posititive article. I agree, the main point of the article was not to higlight the "whining firefighters" but to propose a solution to solve the problem. I don't care who you are, there's nothing good about false alarms. From the responses, it woud appear that no one here is thinking big picture and that folks just want to knee jerk and call names. Try thinking about big the big picture. Responding is dangerous, no one wants to get hurt only to find out the call was bogus and from a place you keep going back to. It takes resources to respond, whether no matter what type of dept....people mentioned tough times, guess what that includes municipal services. No one is saying don't respond but an unecessary response can be avoided, everyone wins. As for the manpower issue, perhaps morale is a bad word to use, but the issue is real. How many false calls can someone go on before they really upset their boss? How many times can the same address pop up before anyone gets burned out? I don't think the article mentioned punishing those have a false alarm, but those who are continually having false alarm and have been educated on how to alleviate the problem. If the fines allow the staff to continue doing what they do and help their community, why is that bad thing? The decision is about protecting and helping those who serve the community so they can continue to do so.

Here are some pictures of the aftermath via the USCG response

http://www.newyork.uscgnews.com/go/doc/802/1360451/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+uscgnews%2FURhB+(New+Releases)

Kudos to NPS, USPP, NYPD, FDNY, USCG and NY Waterways on the quick response. Given the depth of the water (or lack there of), should be an interesting recovery.

http://www.ny1.com/content/top_stories/158943/six-rescued-after-tugboat-capsizes-near-liberty-island

I thought that too at first..but isn't saving a life or helping someone in need positive whether it's sad or not?