Larchmont mayor's house fire raised response issues

[Goose 188]

That's the Journal Snooze for you, at it again. Was it Mamroneck village they were talking about? or did thry get that correct?

Probably Town FD over on Weaver St.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Another worthless article about nothing to do with nothing, all probably started by an off shoot question by a reporter to the Chief. Who cares honestly? I can completely understand where he came from and the fire was put out. Why don't they mention that the apparatus called in is staffed with a good compliment of firefighters?

[LTNRFD 266]

Another worthless article about nothing to do with nothing, all probably started by an off shoot question by a reporter to the Chief. Who cares honestly? I can completely understand where he came from and the fire was put out. Why don't they mention that the apparatus called in is staffed with a good compliment of firefighters?

The question is why is New Rochelle needed. Is this going to become Mt. Vernon EAST ???????

[spike2231 38]

it was the town dept were most of the lfd members joined

mamaroneck village was at the scene with engine 40 and at least 15 men

the town was on stand by with about 15 or more people

Edited January 3, 2008 by spike2231

[exmrvfc 0]

What nobody seems to be asking is how many volunteers showed up after the everyone left? Five volunteers and three career members does not make for a strong department. This could be a disaster waiting to happen.

[JetPhoto 626]

If I knew nothing about that area and the problems that exist, by reading that article I would have thought these were back road fire dept's hundreds of miles from here where the police still make phone calls to tell people about fires! The paper should just give it up and officially be another Inquirer

[ex-commish 490]

The paper should just give it up and officially be another Inquirer

I thought it was

[bubbasfd 0]

Wow, can you imagine what people would be saying if the fire wasn't put out so quickly. It seems that the Volunteers who abandoned the Village of Larchmont Fire Department can't seem to grow up. Listen, the Village Board made a decision you didn't agree with, so you chose the adult way out by quitting and crying like babies. Get over it and get on with your lives already.

As far as the idea that New Rochelle stretched the lines into the fire, come on. Larchmont stretched the first line into the garage, the second line through the house and down the basement steps, and made their hydrant. When New Rochelle responded they took up the positions of the Larchmont firefighters who needed to change their air bottles. It was a quick knock down of a hot fire in a tough, crowded garage. Great job NRFD. The Village of Mamaroneck Fire Department, led by Chief Casterella, also responded and did their jobs professionally and respectfully.

Now, let’s tackle the question about staffing. Does Larchmont need more manpower? YES. So do a lot of Departments in Westchester. Hopefully, this will persuade the officials of Larchmont to increase their staffing levels. This will allow the department to be better able to perform the many tasks needed to be accomplished during the initial response more efficiently and effectively.

Let’s try to sum it all up now. There was a fire and Larchmont responded. They called for Mutual Aid companies to respond. The fire was put out and no one was hurt. Isn’t that what’s supposed to happen or am I missing something. To say that this is abuse of Mutual Aid is absurd, other than the cities, Yonkers, White Plains, Mt. Vernon and New Rochelle, who is able to handle a house fire today? The number of Volunteer firefighters is declining every year. It’s a national trend, in New York State the number of Volunteer firefighters has dropped from 140,000 to 96,000 in the last 15 years. It’s time the Departments realize this is a serious problem and increase their staffing levels appropriately.

[jack10562 414]

+1 for bubbasfd!

Great first post!

[x635 4,066]

FYI, this thread has been merged with the other thread regarding this incident.

[DMM8240 2]

It was the mayor who called in the alarm at 6:36 am, reaching Captain Stephen Epstein, who arrived a minute later along with the two other career firefighters on duty and Larchmont’s Engine 34 , 33, and Tower Ladder 7. “I just want to say how grateful I and my family are to him for his calm guidance over the phone and his oversight of the scene,” said Mayor Feld.

At the outset, Captain Epstein both attacked the fire and served as incident commander until Chief Heine arrived at 7:20 and officially called the fire under control at 7:23.

So, I am by no means anywhere near an expert on fire scene operations, in fact I don't know all that much, but I never knew that the IC could be on an attack line..... VERY IMPRESSIVE

full article:

http://larchmontgazette.com/2008/articles/...03feldfire.html

Edited January 4, 2008 by DMM8240

[bubbasfd 0]

Come on folks. Let it go. Now we are going to argue over how someone can be on the line and be an IC. Why not do something constructive and try to solve this problem by convincing politicians to increase their staffing levels appropriatelly. But then you wouldn't have anything to complain about.

Condolences to the family of Lt. Martinson and our brothers of the FDNY. Our thoughts and prayers are with you.

[DMM8240 2]

Condolences to the family of Lt. Martinson and our brothers of the FDNY. Our thoughts and prayers are with you.

Very sad way to start the year. . . god bless his family.

True Hero.

[dc2t 80]

So, I am by no means anywhere near an expert on fire scene operations, in fact I don't know all that much, but I never knew that the IC could be on an attack line..... VERY IMPRESSIVE

full article:

http://larchmontgazette.com/2008/articles/...03feldfire.html

There seems to be quite a few experts with no experience and vast knowledge of everything. Fire was put out no injuries kudos to LFD

[DMM8240 2]

There seems to be quite a few experts with no experience and vast knowledge of everything. Fire was put out no injuries kudos to LFD

It seems you need to read more carefully sir, I never said I was an expert, I actually started by saying I was no were near, just was making an observation.

[dools16 1]

In most of the combo depts, the duty officer is on the line or helping stretch in until more manpower arrives, either being vols,off duty men or mutual aid. He is also the IC. Not the best way to work but thats part of the job in small depts. As all career guys know, manpower is non-negotiable. We keep asking but towns take there chances. Is a county dept the answer? Maybe it is but until then, mutual aid will be used and sometimes abused.

[Guest]

I can't believe what working conditons you guys have to put up with, what a joke, 2 FF's on an engine, thats an absolute disgrace, what are your govermenments thinking. Over here in Australia that just wouldn't happen. My department runs minimum of 4 per per engine, no if's or but's, we recall until we get enough manning, in fact they will make a FF hold back if they don't have the correct numbers. Take new years for example, we didn't have anyone on leave and only 1 off on sick leave, so they had extra crew, they put another rig on the run from the spare pool. I can't believe how you guys run, its downright dangerous, what are your unions doing, they should be breaking some balls over this. Good luck to you on the job in these departments, look after yourselves, and don't put yourself in danger so they can save a buck, its not worth it!

[Guest]

Kudos to the brothers in Larchmont. Like Bubba said- fire out, no one hurt. Good job.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

What do I think...I think this thread slowly keeps growing into a thread that is a disgraceful towards my brothers in the Larchmont FD who do nothing other then their jobs to the best of their abilities.

Why was mutual aid called and/or needed...because the first arriving officer and/or IC deemed it necessary. Isn't that enough of an answer? While I'm no fan of supplementing staffing through the mutual aid game, sometimes things are what they are and safety comes first and ensuring you have the appropriate resources on scene is second to get the job done. Some of the comments on here is like discussing why an officer would call for a 2nd alarm in a agency that has more staffing for a similiar event. That is also why mutual aid agreements are made and discussed so there is an understanding and agreement of what will be needed and when. If anyone else is concerned about Larchmont's staffing...run for office and get it changed or talk to the local politicians to assist the brothers in getting safer personnel staffing levels. Better to call it if you think you may need it..then to wait when you do need it.

What is the other issue...there are only a handful of us on here, who will comment in a bit of support for the job that was done at the fire. And why...because there are those out there who immediately attempt to brand you with childish and ridiculous names. To me there is no issue behind why a certain department wasn't called...the chief didn't hold back on the reason and I can see why he did it and say ok makes sense to me. And how do I do that? Because I don't allow my emotions to get involved and in the way of my professional outlook.

Edited January 4, 2008 by alsfirefighter

[spike2231 38]

did i not read that the chief was not there when the fire came in at 640am the paper said he got there around 700am so the officer in the i/c called mutual aid not the chief

just an observation

Edited January 5, 2008 by spike2231

[TL2L31 8]

Wow, can you imagine what people would be saying if the fire wasn't put out so quickly. It seems that the Volunteers who abandoned the Village of Larchmont Fire Department can't seem to grow up. Listen, the Village Board made a decision you didn't agree with, so you chose the adult way out by quitting and crying like babies. Get over it and get on with your lives already.

As far as the idea that New Rochelle stretched the lines into the fire, come on. Larchmont stretched the first line into the garage, the second line through the house and down the basement steps, and made their hydrant. When New Rochelle responded they took up the positions of the Larchmont firefighters who needed to change their air bottles. It was a quick knock down of a hot fire in a tough, crowded garage. Great job NRFD. The Village of Mamaroneck Fire Department, led by Chief Casterella, also responded and did their jobs professionally and respectfully.

Now, let’s tackle the question about staffing. Does Larchmont need more manpower? YES. So do a lot of Departments in Westchester. Hopefully, this will persuade the officials of Larchmont to increase their staffing levels. This will allow the department to be better able to perform the many tasks needed to be accomplished during the initial response more efficiently and effectively.

Let’s try to sum it all up now. There was a fire and Larchmont responded. They called for Mutual Aid companies to respond. The fire was put out and no one was hurt. Isn’t that what’s supposed to happen or am I missing something. To say that this is abuse of Mutual Aid is absurd, other than the cities, Yonkers, White Plains, Mt. Vernon and New Rochelle, who is able to handle a house fire today? The number of Volunteer firefighters is declining every year. It’s a national trend, in New York State the number of Volunteer firefighters has dropped from 140,000 to 96,000 in the last 15 years. It’s time the Departments realize this is a serious problem and increase their staffing levels appropriately.

So let me get this right. Because a chief was hired with an increase in salary (did they add someone to fill his old spot) and volunteers quit because of it, now the taxpayers have to hire more paid staff to compensate what they were getting for free? Is there something wrong with this, or is it just me?

[FirNaTine 370]

So let me get this right. Because a chief was hired with an increase in salary (did they add someone to fill his old spot) and volunteers quit because of it, now the taxpayers have to hire more paid staff to compensate what they were getting for free? Is there something wrong with this, or is it just me?

I'd personaly rather pay for it and know its coming when I need it 24/7/365, then to hope and pray enough of the individuals who quit and went home with their ball would actually respond and weren't tied up elsewhere. Just my personal opinion.

[bubbasfd 0]

So let me get this right. Because a chief was hired with an increase in salary (did they add someone to fill his old spot) and volunteers quit because of it, now the taxpayers have to hire more paid staff to compensate what they were getting for free? Is there something wrong with this, or is it just me?

tl2131

If you are trying to justify why the volunteers quit on the Village of Larchmont, you are reaching. They quit because they didn't get their way and the Village called their bluff. Period. The Mayor and the Village Board decided to have more accountability, something they weren't getting with the Volunteer Chief. That's not to blame them, it is only stating fact. The Volunteer Chiefs have other jobs and responsibilities. The Board however wanted someone that would be available 24/7. They got that with a Professional Chief. Now, a few of these disgruntled volunteers continue to try and sue the Village in order to reverse the Boards decision. Once again I say, LET IT GO. Get on with your lives and move on. Join other departments, go back to Larchmont, or stop volunteering altogether. Either way, LET IT GO.

[TL2L31 8]

tl2131

If you are trying to justify why the volunteers quit on the Village of Larchmont, you are reaching. They quit because they didn't get their way and the Village called their bluff. Period. The Mayor and the Village Board decided to have more accountability, something they weren't getting with the Volunteer Chief. That's not to blame them, it is only stating fact. The Volunteer Chiefs have other jobs and responsibilities. The Board however wanted someone that would be available 24/7. They got that with a Professional Chief. Now, a few of these disgruntled volunteers continue to try and sue the Village in order to reverse the Boards decision. Once again I say, LET IT GO. Get on with your lives and move on. Join other departments, go back to Larchmont, or stop volunteering altogether. Either way, LET IT GO.

First of all, I could care less how many vollies quit because of this. I am only trying to figure out if this whole situation is costing or will cost the taxpayers more money and was it reaaly the best decision for the Village of Larchmont? Was it really worth the lawyers fees, raise in salary, possilbe staff increases to have a chief who is now an employee instead or someone who was donating his time? If it took the chief 20 minutes to arrive at a fire scene, where does he live? Shoudnt he be required to live relatively close to town?

[ems-buff 81]

It was the mayor who called in the alarm at 6:36 am.

At the outset, Captain Epstein both attacked the fire and served as incident commander until Chief Heine arrived at 7:20

tl2131

The Board however wanted someone that would be available 24/7. They got that with a Professional Chief.

I'm not looking to start anything, and also nice job by LFD, NRFD, VMFD, but the call didn't come in until 6:36 am, The fire Chief didn't come on scene until 720, this was a 2nd alarm I belive ( please correct me if I'm worng) the fire was place under control three minutes later once the Fire Chief came on scene, and the IC was doing one heck of a job as well as helping put out the fire. Which brings up the question. Where was the Fire Chief that whole 44mins? Did he know that there was a fire going on? Did he know it was his Bosses house? Why was the IC helping put out the fire. I thought the IC must to look at the "Big Picture" not focusing on the line and working it. This is some things that I thought we could learn from.

Edited January 5, 2008 by ems-buff

[dools16 1]

Thats why they have a duty officer. He is in charge until relieved by a higher ranking officer, in this case the chief of dept. As far as adding all the costs, it seems to me that the vols. started the lawsuits and the village had to defend themselves.

[ems-buff 81]

Geez, where's in infamous EMTBravo censorship when we need it? This dead horse has been beaten beyond recognition. It's time to bury him, and therefore this topic. Enough already. The fire's out.

Sorry Captain, I meant no offense to you. I just thought that was something to address.

[M' Ave 1,466]

Thats why they have a duty officer. He is in charge until relieved by a higher ranking officer, in this case the chief of dept. As far as adding all the costs, it seems to me that the vols. started the lawsuits and the village had to defend themselves.

Not for nothing..........

..........if a village board somewhere tried to take away a career chief position and replace it with a vollie spot you can BET there would be union actions that would certainly include lawsuits. I think coming down on the vollie leadership for fighting for a position is living in a glass house and throwing stones.

[dc2t 80]

THE MIND IS A TERRIBLE THING.

[Bnechis 3,961]

First of all, I could care less how many vollies quit because of this. I am only trying to figure out if this whole situation is costing or will cost the taxpayers more money and was it reaaly the best decision for the Village of Larchmont? Was it really worth the lawyers fees, raise in salary, possilbe staff increases to have a chief who is now an employee instead or someone who was donating his time? If it took the chief 20 minutes to arrive at a fire scene, where does he live? Shoudnt he be required to live relatively close to town?

Lots of comments on the boards about the communities not being willing to invest in the depts and not trying to improve them. Here the village took a bold move, knowing it may cost them more and everyone throws stones at them. How many mayor are willing to stick there necks out like she did?

If that many vollies quit over this, how reliable were they in the 1st place. In other locations when they have had a mass exidus the dept improved cause they got ride of the guys who showed up but never willing to go in. That being said, I do not know any of the vol. who quit, so I do not know there abilities or commitment level, but having lived in the area I've heard/seen many times over the last 30 yrs this group threaten the village that if they did not get there way they would quit.

The mayor decided that she could not fold to their blackmail. At least she has a backbone.