Yonkers 4th Alarm 3/11/2010

[GFD505 0]

thanks x635. i can view them now.

[Truck4 48]

Almost 30 years ago, around 98 or 100 Elliot Ave- Thomas Wanstall Photo from yfd.org.. and yesterday

[JFLYNN 681]

Thanks for correcting my numbers. Am I correct in saying that every engine and all but one ladder were committed to this fire? Any other job, small or large, would have required putting the mutual aid to work?

This is without Ridge Hill or any other devleopment being completed and placing additional demands on the City's resources. Is it also safe to assume that when confronted by a multiple alarm fire you stop responding on medical emergencies anywhere in the City? So the taxpayer on the east side can't get CFR's on scene in 3-4 minutes because the city has opted to play roulette with their safety by continuing cuts to the FD and PD.

Yes that is all correct Chris. We stop doing First Responder EMS runs when a certain # of apparatus are at a job or on other alarms for an extended period. I'm actually drawing a blank right now on how many apparatus out will stop the first responder runs, I think it is eight? In any event we were not responding to EMS runs last night for an extended period of time.

[61MACKBR1 222]

Almost 30 years ago, around 98 or 100 Elliot Ave- Thomas Wanstall Photo from yfd.org.. and yesterday

Ah - The Good Old Days in Yonkers. YFD using the Old ALF Century Tillers, some of those 1980's Mack CF's and who can forget the Classic Continential Compacs (heard that you could make a good Grill Cheese Sandwich inside the cabs on those old Compacs).

[JFLYNN 681]

Chris - You raise an excellent point above. Yes, from my read on the accounts of yesterday's 4 Alarm Fire in Yonkers, all Engine Companies (303, 304, 306, 307,308,309,310, SQ 11, 312, 313, and 314) were dispatched to the scene of the fire, as were all but 1 Ladder Company (70, 71, 72, 73, & 74) along with Rescue 1. Ladder 75 was relocated to Station 4. Mutual Aid Companies were assigned to Station 1 (Hartsdale Engine, Greenvile Engine and Eastchester TL 17 and New Rochelle Engine 22 and Ladder 12 to Station 12. Once the YFD Off Duty Personnel who were recalled in arrived, YFD Reserve Engine Companies 316 and 315 were assigned to Station 12 and Station 1 respectfully, freeing up at least 1 out of town Engine Company at both Station 1 and Station 12. The members of YFD did a remarkable job yesterday, given how close those buildings are to one another, preventing it from spreading and having an even more disasterous situation from becoming a reality.

While this 4 Alarm Fire was going on, these Mutual Aid and YFD Reserve Companies were responsible for handling the rest of the City of Yonkers, including "First Responder" calls. Notice that the closest "manned" station, to the Eastern Side of the City was Station 12 on Fortfield Avenue. What if they were called out to say a Gas Odor call somewhere in Northwest Yonkers or the Odell Avenue seciton of Yonkers. Then a call would come in for a "First Responder" medical call in the remote area of Northeast Yonkers?

I could only imagine, with Empress having personnel at the fire scene, that their resources were also taxed. I could only imagine the response times on, say a "First Responder" call up in the farthest section of Northeast Yonkers (Near the Edgemont Boarder) that is usually covered by Engine 314. This is something that the politians in the City of Yonkers needs to think about. As Chief Flynn mentioned, the City of Yonkers is no where near the "proper" manpower levels for a city of its size, especially if you factor in the "Not Yet Completed" Ridge Hill Project (Where is the New Ladder Company (YFD Ladder 77 ?)and Fire House (New 2 Bay Station 10 for 310 and 77 ?) that was on the proposal when the Ridge Hill plans were discussed with the city. Haven't heard a word on that lately! Hmmm. Also, if you now factor in the "on the table" proposal for the New Yonkers Downtown Development, you are just adding to the already taxed Yonkers Fire Department. With this development, the proposal calls for a New 6 Bay YFD Headquarters. In my opinion, you would need to add at least 2 Additional Engine Companies, that should be housed at this New Headquarters (Engine 301 and 302) with an additional Ladder Company housed at Station 3 (Ladder 76 ?). This in addition to what was proposed for Ridge Hill. Now, realizing all of this "on paper companies" the Mayor is talking about cuts in Emergency Services. All it would take is for some "Well To Do" citizen of Yonkers, who is politically connected and who lives in that Remote Northeast Section of Yonkers to have a loved one fall ill and to find that the First Responder Response to them was "Delayed" because of staffing issues within the YFD, becuase they were fighting a difficult 4 Alarm Blaze in Southwest Yonkers? Wake up Mayor Ammicone and City Council Members and realize that this could happen one day (god forbid it does). Yes, Yonkers has the unique plan and fortune to be able to call in off duty personnel and to have the Equipped Spare Apparatus to help and take over from Called In Mutual Aid Companies, but its "not enough" YFD is the best run Professional City Fire Department in the State of New York (for its size) but is "far below" the manpower and apparatus levels of say a Syracuse, a Buffalo, a Rochester or other cities of its size in New York State, especially given its close proximity to New York City. Maybe some day people will wake up and see what is real.

We utilized 3 spare engines and 1 spare ladder which gave us 3 and 2 at which point we released the mutual aid. We didn't wind up manning the other spare ladder.

[61MACKBR1 222]

We utilized 3 spare engines and 1 spare ladder which gave us 3 and 2 at which point we released the mutual aid. We didn't wind up manning the other spare ladder.

Thanks Chief Flynn. It is amazing that even as bare bones minimum you are able to have fire coverage for the City of Yonkers, you have a wonderful plan in place to bring in Off Duty Personnel to man the 3 Reserve Engine Companies and the 2 Reserve Ladder Companies housed at YFD SOD. Still, the politians who run the city needs to think about what could potentially happen, just having the city being covered by 3 Engine Companies and 2 Ladder Companies and still trying to handle "First Responder Calls" - Maybe someday the Mayor and City Councilmen/women will realize that Life and Property needs to be protected "Properly"

[x129K 1,393]

Dan,

Check your FB, I sent you a message.

Billy

10-4 K

On a side note - and forgive me if this is off the topic, but when YFD DOES call back members, who makes the calls; Union guys or Dispatchers? (no bashing or anything like than, don't worry, just genuine curiousity...)

[16fire5 693]

How do YFD engines operate for jobs like this? When you break down the numbers 1 officer 1 ECC you have 2 back step firefighters. How many engine companies does it take to get the first line in position and how long? I know how inefficent 3 firefighters from an FDNY engine company are in this situation. Actually now to think of it you need one firefighter to control the stretch in this type of building so initially you have one firefighter making a 8+ length stretch alone initially. Top floor fires in these large NFP buildings are extremely difficult to get ahead of with FDNY staffing levels.

[rfdu39 89]

Here is a video from the fire.

[JFLYNN 681]

How do YFD engines operate for jobs like this? When you break down the numbers 1 officer 1 ECC you have 2 back step firefighters. How many engine companies does it take to get the first line in position and how long? I know how inefficent 3 firefighters from an FDNY engine company are in this situation. Actually now to think of it you need one firefighter to control the stretch in this type of building so initially you have one firefighter making a 8+ length stretch alone initially. Top floor fires in these large NFP buildings are extremely difficult to get ahead of with FDNY staffing levels.

My background is in truck and Rescue work mostly so I'm not an Engine expert but I will now show you all how I am an equal opportunity critic...YFD does not normally team up multiple engine companies to stretch the first line (or any lines). Typically every engine on the first alarm gets their own hydrant and forward stretches in, leaving the officer and nozzleman to stretch the handline which is normally 1 3/4". The hydrant man hooks up, charges the hydrant and follows the line in. If the hydrant is close enough, the driver may get the hydrant himself, allowing an additional man on the stretch. My personal opinion is that for any stretch longer than 3 lengths it would ususlly be better for two engine companies to team up, utilizing one hydrant and using the remaining members to stretch and operate a single hoseline. We rarely do this. Of course, for departments around here, other than FDNY, it is difficult to make hard and fast SOG's regarding such evolutions because manpower is limited and sometimes it is better to inadequately stretch and operate three hoselines than to adequately stretch and operate one hoseline in the initial stages of the fire. In another words, sometimes a little water in three places( fire floor, floor above, exposure line as an example) with a little delay is better than a lot of water in one place with no delay, if that makes any sense. Unfortunately there is a stigma on our department attached to not having a hydrant or not stretching your own line which IMO shouldn't be. I would like to see more first due Engine companies getting on the radio and telling the second due to supply them and using the "hydrant man" on the stretch of the initial hoseline. Then, after supplying first due engine (or as this is being done) second due engine can make the decision whether or not to stretch their own line or help the first due, dependent on the conditions found. I have spoken to many FDNY members over the years who think we are crazy to not team up engine companies and they have a valid point but it is not quite as simple as it may seem to an FDNY member due to our lack of manpower.

As a Chief, if I have members searching the fire floor and the floor above, and fire in or about to be in the exposure building(s), I may decide to have all 4 engines on the first alarm stretch their own line in order to cover these areas, even though I realize these lines are woefully undermanned and we are stretching 1 3/4 when 2 1/2 would be preferable...on the other hand, if there is fire confined to an apartment on an upper floor on arrival, the right move may be to team up two engines or possibly even three to get that first line in and oftentimes we don't even consider that option because each engine getting their own hydrant and stretching their own line is so ingrained. Old habits die hard....

I wrote this fast so apologize if it is rambling...this has been one of my many pet peeves about my own department for many years and it is not a black and white issue so YFD guys, please remember.....qtip

[Mac8146 61]

Excellent reply Chief however do all YFD Engines have similiar hosebeds, I know they use preconnected lines since they forward layin. Are all Engines going to LDH for supply or remaining with dual 3 1/2 for supply. I understand the time issues you state but sometimes a 2 1/2 line is necessary due to volume of fire and need for maximum water. I have seen many jobs and am amazed at the work your men do with 1 officer and 3 firefighters, maybe the old stigma can be erased and attention to working together or having 2nd engine relay water will become reality. Be safe and take care of your men.

[ACEast 0]

If I remember right there was a other multi-alarm at 64 Elliot Ave. in the early 90?

Yes- there was a multiple there.

[efdcapt115 1,511]

Very informative and comprehensive thread, thanks Truck4 for starting it off with that great photo and the IA.

Learned so much in this thread so far about YFD operating procedures.

Chris gives us an aerial view, we've got photos from all exposures.

I liked the tactics in the rear of the building, getting the appliances and 2 1/2"s on the nearby rooftops. Looks like you had pretty good water volume up there as well.

This fire imo really demonstrates the truly basic function of an urban fire department, particularly one with occupancies like these blocks of buildings, virtually on top of each other; and that is still to this day to prevent conflagrations.

Yes of course life rescue, and I hope we hear more about the trucks and who did what in the early stages of removing victims somewhere in this thread, and yes of course agressive interior attack, but going back to the origination of these cities, Yonkers, New York, and the surrounding urban sprawl, preventing conflagration was utmost on peoples' minds.

It was very interesting to learn from another fireman (we're all kinda buff historians) that originally in Manhattan, the wider streets we all take for granted as being the cross-over streets with two lanes of traffic, where you can get from the east to the west side of the island; were originally planned to be that wide as conflagration fire stops.

So the next time you're on Canal, or Houston, or 14th St, or 23rd St, etc, now you know (if you didn't already).

The DeCateur Ave 2nd alarm thread offered FDNY officers and firefighters critiquing one of their own jobs; for the benefit of Bravo members education.

I see this thread as a continuation of that sharing of information; it's such a good thing to see the site functioning the way it should be, imo.

The Wanstall photo from 30 years ago graphically illustrated the forward lay tactics of the engine companies that the chief was explaining and wondering about.

What was the staffing of those engine companies 30 years ago?

Didn't Chief Vincent Dunn FDNY (ret) orignally quantify the efficiency of 4 man versus 5 man engine company hose stretches, and isn't that pretty much the standard people go by when talking about whether or not to team up engines on an initial stretch?

I was also told that years ago the FDNY engine companies also followed a similar operating procedure; ie all initial engines forward lay and stetched their own lines. But now, as explained in the DeCateur Ave thread, the companies are teaming up more often to get the initial line, particuarly a 2 1/2" into operation.

These procedures have ramifications for all other Westchester, Putnam, Jersey departments with less staffing. I pounded my head against the wall to get two, two man engines to work together initally as one four man engine. Of course, my job is building upon a foundation of having chauffer only apparatus; so company ops are still evolving today. The smart leadership over there today is making strides, and this Yonkers job looked like a model for mutual-aid cooperation; including the timely staffing of reserve apparatus and the returning of those companies to their first due districts.

Losing CFR companies for the entire city would concern me if I was a resident. Sounds like YFD can be taxed to it's limits in 20-30 minutes with a 4th like this one. so any talk about cuts coming from the politicians sound extremely dangerous to me. Can politicians be sued for making irresponsible public safety cuts? I wonder what their liability is.

Thanks again everybody for this great info. Glad to hear there were no serious injuries at this fire. NICE job.

[jd783 64]

A short rundown of what I seen going on, Large volume of smoke seen from Radford and South Broadway in route, 74 at location smoke from rear coming over top of building and exp 2,4 alleyways.(this was the rear porches burning but did not know this right away)All 4 members of 74 where grabbed by civilians as we were getting off the rig screaming, pointing giving apt #'s ect. approx 10 people self evacuating on both fire escapes.(Both drop ladders were already down) older handicapped women was removed from fire escape by 71. 74 to what was given as fire apt 2S for primary.303(hydrant on Morris) with line to 2nd fl, 304(Hydrant on Elliot) line to 3rd fl 306 had a line in the building 308 to exposure. 71 removing people from fire escape and vertical ventlation. Large volume of fire on 2nd,3rd and 4th fl. from what I could see rear porches burned basement to roof fire was pushed in from the rear porches by wind hallway on 2nd fl had fire from back to front of building. multipy alarms called minutes after dispatch Defensive operations set up after building searched approx 15-20min? Thank God there were no serious injuires and that this happened in the middle of the day 4:30am could have been a nightmare

[61MACKBR1 222]

A short rundown of what I seen going on, Large volume of smoke seen from Radford and South Broadway in route, 74 at location smoke from rear coming over top of building and exp 2,4 alleyways.(this was the rear porches burning but did not know this right away)All 4 members of 74 where grabbed by civilians as we were getting off the rig screaming, pointing giving apt #'s ect. approx 10 people self evacuating on both fire escapes.(Both drop ladders were already down) older handicapped women was removed from fire escape by 71. 74 to what was given as fire apt 2S for primary.303(hydrant on Morris) with line to 2nd fl, 304(Hydrant on Elliot) line to 3rd fl 306 had a line in the building 308 to exposure. 71 removing people from fire escape and vertical ventlation. Large volume of fire on 2nd,3rd and 4th fl. from what I could see rear porches burned basement to roof fire was pushed in from the rear porches by wind hallway on 2nd fl had fire from back to front of building. multipy alarms called minutes after dispatch Defensive operations set up after building searched approx 15-20min? Thank God there were no serious injuires and that this happened in the middle of the day 4:30am could have been a nightmare

As been mentioned many times within this topic as well as many times within EMTBravo.net, the Yonkers Fire Department is simply the BEST! Their dedication to excellence in firefighting, especially given that they are working at the "Bare Minimum" as it relates to Staffing and Front Line Apparatus Companies, relevent to the City, Geography, Age of Building, and Physical Conditions within the city, is simply amazing.

Edited March 13, 2010 by 61MACKBR1

[R1SmokeEater 359]

Almost 30 years ago, around 98 or 100 Elliot Ave- Thomas Wanstall Photo from yfd.org.. and yesterday

In addition- 64 Elliot Ave ,Exposure #2 to Thursdays job, was a 4th alarm on June 7th, 1991 !

[JFLYNN 681]

Excellent reply Chief however do all YFD Engines have similiar hosebeds, I know they use preconnected lines since they forward layin. Are all Engines going to LDH for supply or remaining with dual 3 1/2 for supply. I understand the time issues you state but sometimes a 2 1/2 line is necessary due to volume of fire and need for maximum water. I have seen many jobs and am amazed at the work your men do with 1 officer and 3 firefighters, maybe the old stigma can be erased and attention to working together or having 2nd engine relay water will become reality. Be safe and take care of your men.

Thanks. As far as the hosebeds, all I know is some have that big new yellow hose and some have the old white/ gray stuff...as I told you I was never much of an engine guy but i've developed a newfound appreciation for what they do after standing in front of some jobs with my white helmet on and basically praying someone would put some water on the fire fast (which they usually do)....it' funny how i always thought us truck and engine guys put the fires out but my first job as a chief all i could think of was water, water, water...in any event there are a bunch of people on here much more qualified than me to talk about how our engines are set up.

[JFLYNN 681]

Very informative and comprehensive thread, thanks Truck4 for starting it off with that great photo and the IA.

Learned so much in this thread so far about YFD operating procedures.

Chris gives us an aerial view, we've got photos from all exposures.

I liked the tactics in the rear of the building, getting the appliances and 2 1/2"s on the nearby rooftops. Looks like you had pretty good water volume up there as well.

This fire imo really demonstrates the truly basic function of an urban fire department, particularly one with occupancies like these blocks of buildings, virtually on top of each other; and that is still to this day to prevent conflagrations.

Yes of course life rescue, and I hope we hear more about the trucks and who did what in the early stages of removing victims somewhere in this thread, and yes of course agressive interior attack, but going back to the origination of these cities, Yonkers, New York, and the surrounding urban sprawl, preventing conflagration was utmost on peoples' minds.

It was very interesting to learn from another fireman (we're all kinda buff historians) that originally in Manhattan, the wider streets we all take for granted as being the cross-over streets with two lanes of traffic, where you can get from the east to the west side of the island; were originally planned to be that wide as conflagration fire stops.

So the next time you're on Canal, or Houston, or 14th St, or 23rd St, etc, now you know (if you didn't already).

The DeCateur Ave 2nd alarm thread offered FDNY officers and firefighters critiquing one of their own jobs; for the benefit of Bravo members education.

I see this thread as a continuation of that sharing of information; it's such a good thing to see the site functioning the way it should be, imo.

The Wanstall photo from 30 years ago graphically illustrated the forward lay tactics of the engine companies that the chief was explaining and wondering about.

What was the staffing of those engine companies 30 years ago?

Didn't Chief Vincent Dunn FDNY (ret) orignally quantify the efficiency of 4 man versus 5 man engine company hose stretches, and isn't that pretty much the standard people go by when talking about whether or not to team up engines on an initial stretch?

I was also told that years ago the FDNY engine companies also followed a similar operating procedure; ie all initial engines forward lay and stetched their own lines. But now, as explained in the DeCateur Ave thread, the companies are teaming up more often to get the initial line, particuarly a 2 1/2" into operation.

These procedures have ramifications for all other Westchester, Putnam, Jersey departments with less staffing. I pounded my head against the wall to get two, two man engines to work together initally as one four man engine. Of course, my job is building upon a foundation of having chauffer only apparatus; so company ops are still evolving today. The smart leadership over there today is making strides, and this Yonkers job looked like a model for mutual-aid cooperation; including the timely staffing of reserve apparatus and the returning of those companies to their first due districts.

Losing CFR companies for the entire city would concern me if I was a resident. Sounds like YFD can be taxed to it's limits in 20-30 minutes with a 4th like this one. so any talk about cuts coming from the politicians sound extremely dangerous to me. Can politicians be sued for making irresponsible public safety cuts? I wonder what their liability is.

Thanks again everybody for this great info. Glad to hear there were no serious injuries at this fire. NICE job.

[JFLYNN 681]

Very informative and comprehensive thread, thanks Truck4 for starting it off with that great photo and the IA.

Learned so much in this thread so far about YFD operating procedures.

Chris gives us an aerial view, we've got photos from all exposures.

I liked the tactics in the rear of the building, getting the appliances and 2 1/2"s on the nearby rooftops. Looks like you had pretty good water volume up there as well.

This fire imo really demonstrates the truly basic function of an urban fire department, particularly one with occupancies like these blocks of buildings, virtually on top of each other; and that is still to this day to prevent conflagrations.

Yes of course life rescue, and I hope we hear more about the trucks and who did what in the early stages of removing victims somewhere in this thread, and yes of course agressive interior attack, but going back to the origination of these cities, Yonkers, New York, and the surrounding urban sprawl, preventing conflagration was utmost on peoples' minds.

It was very interesting to learn from another fireman (we're all kinda buff historians) that originally in Manhattan, the wider streets we all take for granted as being the cross-over streets with two lanes of traffic, where you can get from the east to the west side of the island; were originally planned to be that wide as conflagration fire stops.

So the next time you're on Canal, or Houston, or 14th St, or 23rd St, etc, now you know (if you didn't already).

The DeCateur Ave 2nd alarm thread offered FDNY officers and firefighters critiquing one of their own jobs; for the benefit of Bravo members education.

I see this thread as a continuation of that sharing of information; it's such a good thing to see the site functioning the way it should be, imo.

The Wanstall photo from 30 years ago graphically illustrated the forward lay tactics of the engine companies that the chief was explaining and wondering about.

What was the staffing of those engine companies 30 years ago?

Didn't Chief Vincent Dunn FDNY (ret) orignally quantify the efficiency of 4 man versus 5 man engine company hose stretches, and isn't that pretty much the standard people go by when talking about whether or not to team up engines on an initial stretch?

I was also told that years ago the FDNY engine companies also followed a similar operating procedure; ie all initial engines forward lay and stetched their own lines. But now, as explained in the DeCateur Ave thread, the companies are teaming up more often to get the initial line, particuarly a 2 1/2" into operation.

These procedures have ramifications for all other Westchester, Putnam, Jersey departments with less staffing. I pounded my head against the wall to get two, two man engines to work together initally as one four man engine. Of course, my job is building upon a foundation of having chauffer only apparatus; so company ops are still evolving today. The smart leadership over there today is making strides, and this Yonkers job looked like a model for mutual-aid cooperation; including the timely staffing of reserve apparatus and the returning of those companies to their first due districts.

Losing CFR companies for the entire city would concern me if I was a resident. Sounds like YFD can be taxed to it's limits in 20-30 minutes with a 4th like this one. so any talk about cuts coming from the politicians sound extremely dangerous to me. Can politicians be sued for making irresponsible public safety cuts? I wonder what their liability is.

Thanks again everybody for this great info. Glad to hear there were no serious injuries at this fire. NICE job.

It's funny you mentioned Vinny Dunn. Anyone who has more than a few years in the fire service who hasn't read his books, in particular the first one, shouldn't consider themselves a true professional.

I'm not sure if he was the point man on FDNY's study on 4 man vs. 5 man engine companies although I believe he was involved...keep in mind also that when FDNY refers to "4 man" and "5 man" they are not counting the Officer, which is as it should be, so to compare apples to apples, YFD would have "3 men" and many other departments "2 men" or "1 man"...anyway, FDNY did do some good studies and tests on the efficiency of 4 man vs. 5 man engine companies and there were also some other departments and organizations which conducted tests and published valid data on the efficiencies of the various levels of manning on engine companies- I'm sure Bnechis would have all of this info at his fingertips. FDNY though, as far as I know, didn't start insisting on pairing up engine companies to stretch the first line until I believe, approximately the mid 90's as a result of some LODD fires.

Vinny Dunn wrote a great article years ago about going around to do in quarters training when he was a BC or DC and he showed up at a busy engine company where on the blackboard in the kitchen prior to his arrival the senior man, a very experienced old timer, had written "it's the first line, stupid"...meaning, "you can talk to us all day about strategy, tactics, truckwork, etc., but as the first line goes, so will the fire go, and maybe you should be emphasizing that more when conducting training. At the time I was reading it I was new on the job and I had already heard from senior guys and officers basically the same thing, but not in those words, and it really stuck after that. Years hence, I can attest to the validity of that statement.

I believe most fire departments including my own would improve their operations if more emphasis was placed on the rapid placement and advancement of the first line as well as ensuring it is the proper size (2 1/2 when necessary) as dictated by fire and building conditions.

[JFLYNN 681]

In addition- 64 Elliot Ave ,Exposure #2 to Thursdays job, was a 4th alarm on June 7th, 1991 !

There is a very interesting feline connection with both of these Elliot St. fires...does anyone else know what I am referring to?

[ajsbear 11]

There is a very interesting feline connection with both of these Elliot St. fires...does anyone else know what I am referring to?

If I remember correctly, the day after the fire several pet cats that lived in the building were found alive in several apartments back then. Many were amazed at the way the cats hid during the fire.

[KCRD 6]

"as I told you I was never much of an engine guy but i've developed a newfound appreciation for what they do after standing in front of some jobs with my white helmet on and basically praying someone would put some water on the fire fast (which they usually do)....it' funny how i always thought us truck and engine guys put the fires out but my first job as a chief all i could think of was water, water, water..."

Its great that you finally realize who the "real" workers are. There is a reason that truck guys are called "firefighter helpers"

[chris 18]

"as I told you I was never much of an engine guy but i've developed a newfound appreciation for what they do after standing in front of some jobs with my white helmet on and basically praying someone would put some water on the fire fast (which they usually do)....it' funny how i always thought us truck and engine guys put the fires out but my first job as a chief all i could think of was water, water, water..."

Its great that you finally realize who the "real" workers are. There is a reason that truck guys are called "firefighter helpers"

I am an engine guy, so I will agree totally for the fun of it all. But I hope Mike Wilbur doesn't see this. He has a big opinion about ladder work vs engine work.

[Truck4 48]

71 setting up..

[chris 18]

More good pics.

[JM15 386]

It's funny you mentioned Vinny Dunn. Anyone who has more than a few years in the fire service who hasn't read his books, in particular the first one, shouldn't consider themselves a true professional.

Chief do you know which book is his first one?

[ny10570 745]

Safety and Survival on the Fireground. Usually goes for 25 to 30 dollars new. Buy it and keep it. You're going to want to re-read it.

[PFDRes47cue 653]

Looks like a hell of a fire. Great shots! Thanks for posting. Awesome stop by Yonkers FD.

[JFLYNN 681]

I am an engine guy, so I will agree totally for the fun of it all. But I hope Mike Wilbur doesn't see this. He has a big opinion about ladder work vs engine work.

Well Mike Wilbur, whoever he is, will just have to QTIP...

[JFLYNN 681]

Safety and Survival on the Fireground. Usually goes for 25 to 30 dollars new. Buy it and keep it. You're going to want to re-read it.

It's actually Collapse of Burning Buildings isn't it? However, Safety and Survival on the Fireground is also excellent.