Viral Ventilation Video

[x635 4,066]

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(Video player is Flash through Facebook. If anyone finds a YouTube link, please advice.)

Here is the video that has been much talked about on the internet today. The team at FTT DOES NOT support using videos to criticize, nit-pick or otherwise slam the operations of other fire departments or firefighters. however, if a lesson can be learned then so be it. Watch the video and ask yourself a couple questions...

1) What will the ventilation operation being undertaken accomplish?

2) Is the operation being undertaken being done so in the best way possible?

3) Has "global vision" been lost and focus been narrowed in too much onto one area, one task?

Could you or your department fall prey to the same dangers? Open and honest discussion is good for the fire service to learn. Tearing into each other is not. Be respectful in our dialogue. ~ Chris Sterricke

FROM: http://firetrainingtoolbox.com/

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[FDNY 10-75 640]

That operation couldn't have gone much worse and wasn't needed...

[16fire5 693]

There's not as many fires as there were 30, 20, or 10 years ago. That's a fact. Sometimes I think guys feel the need to do some tactics at fires because they think this is there only chance. I could be dead wrong but how else can we explain things like cutting peaked roofs after the fire is under control, VES and searching above with no hoseline when the occupant meet you and told you nobody was inside. Stories like this happen everyday and no departments are immune. Part of being a professional is doing the tasks to match what need to be done not what's fun. A friend of mine works for a small paid department and told me how he went mutual aid to a neighbooring depatment and on arrival they had no water on the fire but were on the roof cutting away. If you are interested in doing cool stuff you heard NYC does so you can tell cool stories at the bar you need to re-evaluate being a firefighter.

[TimesUp 148]

What a waste of time and effort. Pull the ceiling in the garage to get to that space if needed although it looks like nothing was there anyway. Snow on the roof ice on the driveway, An all around bad move. That must of hurt! hope they are ok>>>>Owch!

[Haggerty 1029 16]

Im not trying to sound like a guy with many many years on the job, but for gods sake, the whole back of the house is threw the roof, and where is the ladder footing? Theres no need for 2 guys on the ladder, might of been more helpful if the second guy was on the ground...........just my .02 cents.

[ex-commish 490]

Basics thrown out the window

[SageVigiles 1,194]

I see at least two major issues here:

1. Misunderstanding or misuse of tactics. This fire is already blowing through the roof. What benefit will you provide by executing vertical ventilation here? I'd argue very little, if any, and I think most of you would agree. The question becomes was this ordered by Command or was this the result of freelancing? Either way its a failure of command. If the IC ordered it he shouldn't have, if he didn't order it he doesn't have control of the fireground.

2. Failure to take responsibility for safety at all levels. Command and Safety (if present) should not have allowed Firefighters to climb a ladder in an icy environment without someone footing it. Those Firefighters' teammates on the ground never should have let them do it, and those individual Firefighters on the ladder shouldn't have done it.

Hopefully these Firefighters recover, and hopefully everyone learns a lesson here.

Edited December 6, 2012 by SageVigiles

[antiquefirelt 994]

I see at least two major issues here:

1. Misunderstanding or misuse of tactics. This fire is already blowing through the roof. What benefit will you provide by executing vertical ventilation here? I'd argue very little, if any, and I think most of you would agree.

I was going to give them the benefit of the doubt and figured they wanted to draw the fire into the space above the garage., It appeared maybe this would have reduced inevitable clean-up costs by reducing debris.

[JM15 386]

Anyone have a link to anywhere but Facebook?

[dwcfireman 656]

First, I find it a bit ironic that the other video on the Facebook page shows how to foot a ladder using a set of irons....

I'm not going to beat a dead horse by pointing that fire is blowing throughout the rear of the home, rather I'll point out that the construction of the house appears to be extremely segmented, leading to the idea to vertically ventilate the garage. The garage, even though it's attatched, appears to have a completely separate attic from the house, which would lead to inspect the area for fire.

What a waste of time and effort. Pull the ceiling in the garage to get to that space if needed although it looks like nothing was there anyway. Snow on the roof ice on the driveway, An all around bad move. That must of hurt! hope they are ok>>>>Owch!

I agree 100% that a few inspection holes in the ceiling would suffice. And if there was fire in that attic space, given the exterior weather conditions, ripping down the ceiling or entering that attic space through a door or opening with a handline will be much more productive (and safe). Also note there is no visible fire or smoke in the garage.

2. Failure to take responsibility for safety at all levels. Command and Safety (if present) should not have allowed Firefighters to climb a ladder in an icy environment without someone footing it. Those Firefighters' teammates on the ground never should have let them do it, and those individual Firefighters on the ladder shouldn't have done it.

Remember, while you're on the fire ground, you are your own personal safety officer, and a safety officer for those around you. Essentially, every firefighter at every incident is a safety officer. We have to look out for each other and stop each other from doing the inevitable mis-step (more commonly known as 'stupidity'). At no point should anyone rely solely on a safety officer to stop incidents like this one from happening. Common sense should have kicked in at some point during this incident, but s**t happens, and that's why we have to look out for our fellow brothers and sisters.

[antiquefirelt 994]

Anyone have a link to anywhere but Facebook?

I don't have a FB account but was able to view the video yesterday?

[SageVigiles 1,194]

Remember, while you're on the fire ground, you are your own personal safety officer, and a safety officer for those around you. Essentially, every firefighter at every incident is a safety officer. We have to look out for each other and stop each other from doing the inevitable mis-step (more commonly known as 'stupidity'). At no point should anyone rely solely on a safety officer to stop incidents like this one from happening.

PRECISELY.

[x129K 1,393]

There's not as many fires as there were 30, 20, or 10 years ago. That's a fact. Sometimes I think guys feel the need to do some tactics at fires because they think this is there only chance. I could be dead wrong but how else can we explain things like cutting peaked roofs after the fire is under control, VES and searching above with no hoseline when the occupant meet you and told you nobody was inside. Stories like this happen everyday and no departments are immune. Part of being a professional is doing the tasks to match what need to be done not what's fun. A friend of mine works for a small paid department and told me how he went mutual aid to a neighbooring depatment and on arrival they had no water on the fire but were on the roof cutting away. If you are interested in doing cool stuff you heard NYC does so you can tell cool stories at the bar you need to re-evaluate being a firefighter.

Lotta wisdom is that post fellas......soak it in.