10512

The initial response, report and investigation would be whatever Police Agency covered the location of the accident.
Some agencies have their own police, such as the VA. They may do a follow-up accident report in addition to the municipal report.
But the actual "report" will be the local report.

A wise old man once said. "a society that makes enemies of the police, had better make friends with the criminals”.

What EMTBravo Fan Club?
Do you think if the cops asked this guy politely this whole incident would have been avoided?
This incident started with a felon hitting people with a 2x4. That info comes from witnesses, not the cops. Something tells me the perp was not interested in being civil about his encounters that afternoon.
Sorry to inform you, but his actions set the tone.
Your statement "I guess we need extremes like the protests that occurred in Furguson, MO to combat the other extreme, the one being vocalized on this very thread", is probably one of the more asinine statements I have read on this forum. But, your comment describing the Trooper as a degenerate with a High School diploma and a badge on his chest speaks volumes about where you are coming from.
...and FYI, Troopers do not wear badges on their chest.

LOL at Res24cue. You keep proving me wrong that people can't be any dumber.
Law Enforcement Officers are the only thing that keeps order and prevents chaos in our country, regardless of what politicians, media and other groups try to feed us. The most important thing for all of us to do is to avoid sipping the Kool Aid that is fed to us making us think that LEOs are the enemy.
The enemy is ourselves and our thought process that we can be and are above the law. If we eliminate the laws that govern us and protect us, I will gladly pick up my family and move somewhere that has them, enforces them and protects my family.
I hate how our country is going down the toilet, and how so many people try to justify their illegal actions.

Sure. Strap this 70 lb. thing to yourself, plus your airpack and the rest of your stuff. That'll help with the manpower shortage everyone has.

Should all fire trucks carry water?...NO

Interesting Article, Guess its been long enough since the last time we went down the stupid trail. They say the fire service is a 100 years of history unspoiled by progress.... Here we are failing to learn from history.
Back in the early 1990's we started with the every rig should have water....The Quint Concept. or even the Total Quint Concept. We even had the mini/maxi concept. We put everything we need on one truck and it 1) does nothing well and 2) add $100,000's to the cost of the rig.
St. Louis is now backing away since it doesn't really work as advertised. A couple of large VA depts. are now at the 1st replacement round and are asking why have the fleet costs skyrocked, and maybe we should not do this. Rochester went back to traditional units, because it too found it didn't really save money or work well.
Now if we cant get rigs on the road, adding another piece of equipment that somebody has to carry into a building is not going to help.
This week I heard 1 dept in the county paging out for any available interior firefighters to respond to an automatic alarm. Well if you can not handle a response to an A/A then equipment is not your problem. Every department in the county has taken millions in taxpayer money with the understanding of those taxpayers that when they call the FD, they will actually show up. If you can not do that, it is time to merge with someone else, hire someone else or hire your own staff.
Neat tool? do you put it on over or under your SCBA?
So this backpack weights about 45 lbs. So you use them on your initial knockdown but you have to leave your SCBA on the truck. Sounds like another toy that some depts. will buy with tax payer funds and it will sit on the rig till it no longer functions and its then thrown away.

Well, I relistened and all I hear is the recorder say "I can record" and the Trooper appears to say "You can" or possibly "Yes, you can." The Trooper doesn't appear to say anything directing him not to record, nor does he even engage him in any conversation, so.... There is no indication the Trooper said or took any action precluding recording. The Trooper is even walking away from the guy recording as he passes him.
I'm not sure why some people go out of their way to assume the cops are wrong, when there is no evidence to substantiate that, and even in this case evidence to the contrary.
Unreal.

What EMTBravo Fan Club?
Do you think if the cops asked this guy politely this whole incident would have been avoided?
This incident started with a felon hitting people with a 2x4. That info comes from witnesses, not the cops. Something tells me the perp was not interested in being civil about his encounters that afternoon.
Sorry to inform you, but his actions set the tone.
Your statement "I guess we need extremes like the protests that occurred in Furguson, MO to combat the other extreme, the one being vocalized on this very thread", is probably one of the more asinine statements I have read on this forum. But, your comment describing the Trooper as a degenerate with a High School diploma and a badge on his chest speaks volumes about where you are coming from.
...and FYI, Troopers do not wear badges on their chest.

Great job by the 2 troopers in subduing the suspect and making the arrest. Also agree with everyone else about removing the hat so the use of OC spray could be used and if there were any danger in using hands to remove the hat the foot would be the next thing to use. Also I rarely ever see OC spray used anymore unless it is by an officer that does not carry a taser and looking at these Troopers I can see they both had one. But I'm not an expert of the training methods of the state police, I just watch cops all the time, hahahahaha.

I don't know where you live or why you have such a big axe to grind but you're obviously just anti-law enforcement. This was a felony assault suspect and the trooper was smart enough not to go hands-on until a back-up arrived (smart decision number 1). They used restraint and attempted to take him into custody using a minimal amount of force (smart again). Then as he resisted they escalated the force and successfully got him into custody (smart yet again). Not bad for a couple of hyper-caffeinated high school grads, huh?
He fought with the troopers and they escalated the force to get him into cuffs. The treatment this guy got he brought on himself.
The first trooper was trying to talk him down and that failed so your defuse virtually any situation theory goes right out the window. If they were quick to the taser trigger there would have been a lot less video to watch.
I didn't see any screaming in the video. Calling the troopers "degenerates with a high school diploma" and "Super Troopers" and "jacked up on mountain dew" is just disrespectful and uncalled for but you're entitled to your opinion no matter how wrong it may be. Suggesting that rioting and looting is somehow similar or equal to this discussion illustrates just how ignorant you are but the great thing about this country is you're still able to voice this childish rhetoric.
How many tickets have you gotten that make you so bitter and hostile toward the police anyway?
As you say in your signature, these opinions are mine and mine alone and also protected by the first amendment.

What EMTBravo Fan Club?
Do you think if the cops asked this guy politely this whole incident would have been avoided?
This incident started with a felon hitting people with a 2x4. That info comes from witnesses, not the cops. Something tells me the perp was not interested in being civil about his encounters that afternoon.
Sorry to inform you, but his actions set the tone.
Your statement "I guess we need extremes like the protests that occurred in Furguson, MO to combat the other extreme, the one being vocalized on this very thread", is probably one of the more asinine statements I have read on this forum. But, your comment describing the Trooper as a degenerate with a High School diploma and a badge on his chest speaks volumes about where you are coming from.
...and FYI, Troopers do not wear badges on their chest.

What EMTBravo Fan Club?
Do you think if the cops asked this guy politely this whole incident would have been avoided?
This incident started with a felon hitting people with a 2x4. That info comes from witnesses, not the cops. Something tells me the perp was not interested in being civil about his encounters that afternoon.
Sorry to inform you, but his actions set the tone.
Your statement "I guess we need extremes like the protests that occurred in Furguson, MO to combat the other extreme, the one being vocalized on this very thread", is probably one of the more asinine statements I have read on this forum. But, your comment describing the Trooper as a degenerate with a High School diploma and a badge on his chest speaks volumes about where you are coming from.
...and FYI, Troopers do not wear badges on their chest.

Even if it was a kick to the head, I think the Troopers were justified.
No law ever said the cops had to be nice, just civil.
If you instigate a problem you really have no complaint when it does not have a happy ending for you.
Once a person makes the decision to go hands on with the Police, he chose his hand.
What happens after that is up to, and the responsibility of, the perp. I am not saying there are no limits to what the Police can be justified in doing, there are.
But, I see no problem with "one-upping" a perp. If you use your hands, so can the cops, (this includes using feet) and the cops can "one-up" by using a stick, taser or spray. If it is one perp, there can be 2, or 3 or more cops. If you use a weapon, the cops can use a gun.
No one ever said the cops had to fight fair.
The perps are not going to!
No one ever said Policing was pretty. It is not. But people seem to have a problem when they see it.
I have done this for a bit over 27 years.
I say put on a shield and go out there and show me how it is done.
I say kudos to the Troopers.

My only question is did they let it go on too long? If this video was used for training would instructors recommend taking more swift action? I would say the longer it goes on the greater the chance of all kinds of bad things happening.
Unfortunately current events have police being vilified for the SI incident. It's probably encouraging people to resist.
I'd just hate to see LEO getting hurt because the court of public opinion can't stomach what proper use of force looks like.

Even if it was a kick to the head, I think the Troopers were justified.
No law ever said the cops had to be nice, just civil.
If you instigate a problem you really have no complaint when it does not have a happy ending for you.
Once a person makes the decision to go hands on with the Police, he chose his hand.
What happens after that is up to, and the responsibility of, the perp. I am not saying there are no limits to what the Police can be justified in doing, there are.
But, I see no problem with "one-upping" a perp. If you use your hands, so can the cops, (this includes using feet) and the cops can "one-up" by using a stick, taser or spray. If it is one perp, there can be 2, or 3 or more cops. If you use a weapon, the cops can use a gun.
No one ever said the cops had to fight fair.
The perps are not going to!
No one ever said Policing was pretty. It is not. But people seem to have a problem when they see it.
I have done this for a bit over 27 years.
I say put on a shield and go out there and show me how it is done.
I say kudos to the Troopers.

You can go straight to a Taser, stick or spray. You would have to explain that the person posed a physical threat.
Most cops will tend to try and go physical and try to stop someone first. I think that is an old habit. Most cops start off trying not to escalate it.
With more tasers out there, and newer cops, I am thinking that will change.
I have rarely seen a person who has been tasered on more than one occasion. I have see azzhats throwing out all kinds of BS to the Police, just daring them to try and arrest them, then suddenly comply when they have seen the taser come out of the holster.
But, if it looks like they will resist, you can one-up their force right away, you would just have to explain it. It is completely justifiable, if someone is closing the gap on you saying I am going to kick your a55, or if someone is trying to break away from you, to light them up with a taser before they actually touch you.
Some people, and not just drunks and people on mind-altering drugs, just cannot be reasoned with.

Even if it was a kick to the head, I think the Troopers were justified.
No law ever said the cops had to be nice, just civil.
If you instigate a problem you really have no complaint when it does not have a happy ending for you.
Once a person makes the decision to go hands on with the Police, he chose his hand.
What happens after that is up to, and the responsibility of, the perp. I am not saying there are no limits to what the Police can be justified in doing, there are.
But, I see no problem with "one-upping" a perp. If you use your hands, so can the cops, (this includes using feet) and the cops can "one-up" by using a stick, taser or spray. If it is one perp, there can be 2, or 3 or more cops. If you use a weapon, the cops can use a gun.
No one ever said the cops had to fight fair.
The perps are not going to!
No one ever said Policing was pretty. It is not. But people seem to have a problem when they see it.
I have done this for a bit over 27 years.
I say put on a shield and go out there and show me how it is done.
I say kudos to the Troopers.

What I find to be the most disturbing is the title of this thread “Montrose Beat down and Tasting” . .
Clearly there was no beating on the part of the troopers. But even when you use the minimum amount of force necessary to quell the situation, someone will try and escalate the situation and prompt a trial by headline.

An off-duty NYPD officer was one of the fatalities.

Another point, to show how ridiculous this decision is, why were the cops who normally patrol these areas not told to drive around with their lights on?
Is it that only the "overtime' lights will make a difference?

The NYPD began to use the term "Emotionally Disturbed Person" back in the mid-late '70s.
The reasoning was that while at a call, the officers and dispatchers of the time, would refer to "EDP's" as "psychos". The call would be put over the radio using the term "psycho". Every one in the area, cops, victim, passerby would hear this.
The NYPD began to use the term "EDP", figuring it sounded much better than the previous term they were using.
I went on the NYPD in 1981. I remember when I was new, a few old-timers that would occasionally slip back in time and use the term "psycho" while at a job or even on the radio.
Prior to TV shows like "NYPD Blue" or "Law and Order", I would doubt that anyone outside of Police/Fire/EMS personnel, would even know what the term "EDP" was if they heard it.

Actually, you keep your HIPPA protections fro 50 years following the date of your death. But the second part is correct, in many, but not all states, Death Certificates are public.

Could this happen today?
Yes of course.
All the technology today:GPS monitoring, computer assistance, radar, redundant systems and other "fail safes" can all be rendered useless when one incompetent person, or careless person gets thrown into the mix.
The chances of an "oh-sh*t" incident, over the long haul, is likely in the "probable" category.
Anyone recall the Costa Concordia, the Ocean Liner from Italy?
That was a modern ship with modern navigation aids and see what happened to that ship.

The cost of buying the rig is probably not the main problem, it is more likely the cost of the restoration is.
Then you also have to remember, how many people have a place to store this indoors?
Who has the mechanical ability to keep up with the maintenance for this?
It is a nice idea to keep it and restore it, but it comes with a price that will turn most people, even interested people, away.