gamewell45

Positive publicity for the fire service and this turns into a heated battle?!!!! What the Funck!!!
And who cares if you're volley or paid. You're either a fireman or you're not! You either get it or you don't!

If you want services, it costs money. If they don't want to pay, they won't have the level of service they expect. It's as plain and simple as that.

The answer to your question is dependent upon 3 factors
1. Length of hose - which in the formula is L and usually expressed in 100' lengths - so in your example it is 2
2. The diameter of the hose and the associated coefficient 1-3/4" hose has a coefficient of 15.5
3. The GPM Flow desired - The more water, the higher the friction loss. For your question, let's assume 175 GPM - which is expressed in the formula as Q2 (squared)
The formula for friction loss is FL = C x (Q)2 x L
Friction loss for your question is expressed below:
FL= 15.5 * 2* (1.75)2

FL=15.5 x 2 x 3.06
FL= 94.86
Therefore given that you are using a standard fog nozzle which requires 100 PSI at the tip (some work at 75) the Engine Pressure required to obtain the required 175 GPM Flow would be 195PSI.
If you are operating from a hydrant this is not a problem. However if you are working from a tank or draft, remember that the efficiency of a centrifugal pump decreases as pressure goes up. Look at the test plate on your pup panel, at 200 PSI the pumps capacity is reduced 70% so if you have a 1500 GPM pump, at 200 PSI capacity is reduced to 1050 GPM. Similarly if you have a 1000 GPM rated pump, at 200 PSI the capacity is reduced to 700 GPM.
Finally - good planning will help reduce the required pressure and increase the Engine Pressure required. Some ideas include:
Changing to a Solid Bore Nozzle. These nozzles require only 50 PSI at the tip to deliver the required flow so swapping out nozzles would reduce the Engine pressure required to 150PSI increasing the capacity of the pump to 100%.
Changing out the first two lengths of hose to 2-1/2" Diameter hose which has a lower coefficient (2) would also reduce the required engine pressure, and provide the interior companies with the comfort of the 1-3/4" hose and Fog Nozzle.
FL = C x (Q)2 x L / 100
For 2-1/2" Hose the Friction Loss would be:
2 x 1.752x 1 or 6 PSI per 100 Feet
As we determined above the Friction Loss for 1-3/4" hose is about 48 PSI so by changing out 100' of 1-3/4" for 2-1/2" at the truck would reduce the engine pressure required for the desired flow of 175 GPM to 100 PSI at the nozzle, + 54 PSI friction Loss which would result in an Engine pressure requirement of 154 PSI. Change to solid bore and you can bring it down to 100 PSI.
Knowing these options is the difference between a knob turner and puller and a good MPO.
I hope that answered your questions. I will come back to this forum if you have any more.
One last thing. After 40 years as a volunteer, in a very busy department, I would never expect that for the 1 or 2% of the time knowing these formulas is required the MPO would go through these calculations. But they must be aware that if you needed to add an extra 100' of hose to your example, the engine pressure would be 300 and that becomes very dangerous as you are approaching hose test burst strength and exceeding it with the resulting water hammer resulting from opening and closing the nozzle any other way but VERY slowly which never happens on the fire ground.

Been doing EMS for 32 years, last 26 as a medic at Empress. I couldn't see myself doing much else. At my seniority, pay and benefits are pretty good. I work two days a week, and work at other places on days off and I NEVER work weekends.
We have about a dozen EMT's that have over 20 years on the job. We are a Union shop so our raises are by contract, and I think we have 2 1/2 years left on this one, annual raises of about 4%, but it varies by year. Also vacation, holiday, 401K, medical, life, unused time-off match etc.
At the other end of your career, the contract now has an "age-out" clause. After 25 years, you can work 20 hours/week and get full medical- critical at that age and when you have a family. You get less time off, but working 20 hours a week, you need less. And you can come back to full time if you want.
You should buy the book 'Peoplecare" 2nd edition, but Thom Dick. Available at emergencystuff.com. If that guy started a religion, I would convert. There is gold on every page. He will help you understand as to if you have it in you to go the long hall, and advice as to how to do it. As he says, "Almost nobody can do this job."

Play nice now.

EEEEasy, there big fella. That's how things get blown out of proportion. First, let's get that "Heroic" off the marquee. Heroic means that you put yourself in great danger to save a life. That was not the case. Like most rescues the rescuer happens to be at the right place at the right time.
All we did was make a pickup that just involved some maneuvering to get to them. Granted they were on the brink of drowning, but it was just a pickup by a boat with 2 firefighters aboard. We just did what we always do, even on our day off. Not heroic at all.
Let's make some use out of this thread and make it a training session on marine rescue of persons in the water and in distress operating from a private vessel from a private boat.
People who are on the brink of drowning usually do not call for help. They are silent with a look of panic. If they show these signs, they are going down very soon.
SOP
1. Call Mayday... get help on way
2. Never lose sight of victim. Point your arm in vic.s direction for your boat's driver to aim
3 When close enough throw PFD's or anything that floats DO NOT enter the water
4 Throw rope if needed DO NOT enter the water
5 Once vic is alongside ensure motor is off so there are no prop injuries
6 Haul vic at the lowest point , usually it's the stern. DO NOT ENTER WATER
7 DO NOT ENTER WATER (Are you getting the point?)
"Heroic" is a pretty heavy word. Don't use it lightly

Give it a break will ya? Try to be positive just once in a while?

E259 which is at HQ and is a "reserve" engine is an 84 pierce, while E260 which is at D.P. Hays Hose is a 94 pierce. The E90 designation is currently not on any rig since the old E90 was sold around 2007, but is reserved for Pleasantville. Once E90 is in service E259 will most likely be sold and the designation will not be used again until another new engine is needed. Also I would assume E260 would become Pleasantville's reserve engine, but E90 will be stationed at D.P. Hays Hose.
Another way of explaining it is that Pleasantville has 4 engine designations, but only 3 in service at a time and the designations are rotated.

The reason many wealthy people have so much money is because they don't spend it. They tend to nickle and dime everyone to death in order to save money.

The reason many wealthy people have so much money is because they don't spend it. They tend to nickle and dime everyone to death in order to save money.

Politicians and the media have these people convinced that we are the enemy and as was stated a lot of them are the cheapest people you can come across.

Oh, they spend it and then some in Greenwich. The most luxurious homes and cars and everything else. Unless it's their taxes.

The reason many wealthy people have so much money is because they don't spend it. They tend to nickle and dime everyone to death in order to save money.

Christmas in the US has really become a commercial endeavor. I find the true meaning of Christmas to be mostly nonexistent here these days. Just my opinion.
And let's not forget that to include everybody, we can't forget about the atheists. They might be offended by any religious symbol. They are part of our country too.

Having been involved in the process, it's extremely difficult to get benefits if you are legitimately injured.
I just wanted to mention there is a lawyer hired by several Westchester departments to fight 207A claims no matter what. She has even written a book on it, and has held lectures at the New York State Fire District Association meetings. Synergized with evil, morally corrupt commissioners, she would fight someone who has his legs chopped off at a fire scene to deny him 207A.with pride.
Some heavy reading, but worth a browse through http://www.nychiefs.org/conference/207c_Seminar_Handout.pdf
There is a well-respected and well known Fire Lieutenant and instructor in a Westchester city who loved his job. While working at a multiple alarm fire, he suffered a clear cut career ending injury. He wants to go back to work. He can't. Yet he has been fighting for years to get the pension and benefits he deserves, having to attend numerous "hearings" and every side sending him to a different doctor, all of which say the same thing and draw the process out.. He lives everyday with pain caused by this injury. All he wants is for his retirement to go through, so he can move on with his life. Yet NYS, the city he works for, and 207A keeps screwing him and beating him down. He has medical bills he has to pay himself, because he's still fighting for the benefits he deserves. Maybe the article in the newspaper should be telling this Lieutenant's story.
The process is broken, and screwed up.The people who abuse it seem to get through the process easily, while those who really need it have to deal with numerous hearings, doctors appointments, a never ending cycle of things that takes years to get.

Taxpayers need to understand that if you want services, there comes a price tag attached to it. Those who stick their necks out to help/save others should be taken care of if they can no longer do the job due to an injury which occurs on the job or as a result of being on the job. Those who abuse the system, if caught, need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and made an example of; it's people like them who give workers in the public sector a bad name in the first place.
I have no doubt that the system down the road will be reformed and depending on who is in office and their political leanings will ultimately determine what changes take place.

Christmas lights are not religious, wreaths are seen on the front of many rigs and again not religious (unless you go back to the druids) and the courts have stated this along with the fact that religious symbols can not be displayed.
I see no issue with Santa fire apparatus runs, except when depts. violate V&T laws and dept policies by having Santa ride on top of the rig. Can you imagine the effect on a small child, if Santa falls off the rig and gets crush.
Christmas in this country is 2 different events; 1) It is the celebration of the birth of Christ for those that believe that and should be celebrated in the homes & houses of worship of those that believe and 2) it is a commercial (non-religious) event where people celebrate at the malls and on line.

How great is it that, with the exception of some everyday ailments that come along with fighting fires, no one was injured. The possible leadership issues, possible empty tanker, possible malfunctioning smoke detection system are all insignificant at this point. I hope each member of the GBFD had a nice meal with family tonight, lets Monday morning quarterback and solve all of the World's problems and GBFD's potential problems another day.

You'll just love the humidity! Best of luck in your new job!

"Here we go again"? Hey, it's a "free" forum....anyone that wants to post a listing of upcoming drills and training opportunities is more than welcome to do so!
Since the subject line was altered to include "events" as well, let's see some wetdowns, too. I know they're not so common in Westchester, but there's plenty of Dutchess, Orange and Ulster people on here as well.

I find it hard to believe that the FF's refused to respond because they were not dispatched. I'm thinking there might be more to this then meets the eye.

Sorry, guys, I'll have to disagree. It's not Band-Aid repairs, it's. not an improper use of the bidding process. I was at the original dedication of the training center and it was one of the greatest things the county could do for the fire service.
So what happened to it? We wrecked it! Not once but over and over. Instead of following NFPA guidelines that allow for a maximum of 150lbs of Class A combustibles, we torched much more than that. We spalled the concrete and warped the steel doors and window shutters. All of this not for actual knowledge snd skills to be gained, but just to say {to no one who gives a crap) how macho we are because our fire was bigger than yours.
If you are not getting enough runs and want your helmet look salty, put in in your Barbecue grill and don't wreck a perfectly good Training Center again.

I would say yes they do have that right, but in all fairness do they exercise it? Unless Westchester is very different from anywhere else the taxpayers have an opportunity to address any questions or grievances by attending their local Fire Commission meeting which by law must be open to the public. Do they attend them?

That problem can be easily fixed. Eliminate the beer at parades; serve diet soda and bottled water. If you need a drink (alcohol) hit up the local bar; its good for the local economy as well.

Since everyone in here has given most of the answers that i would have given, all I can say to the rookies entering the fire service is that you get to buy coffee for all the guys at the conclusion of the alarm.