dwcfireman

And there goes the thread.
Bottom of the hill, his point is a valid one.
It, however is, like many other posts on here, lost in the delivery. As soon as you call me names, or insult me or my involvement in whichever service I'm in, you've lost me.
It is VERY easy right now to type away on your computer, phone or whatever device a snappy reply to an internet posting. If it makes you feel good when you're typing it, wait 24 hours to post it.
Best to keep your virtual mouth shut and let folks wonder if you're an idiot than to open it and remove all doubt.
Now, as for that sexy black pooooooleece truck...riddle me this...how many times a year is it used? And by used I mean driven to a scene where stuff on it gets deployed. Not just parked.
And, how far away is the next closest one like it? If we ALL asked those questions when specing apparatus, think where we would be!
Regardless, it is a nice pic, Seth. Thanks for posting it.

I don't normally add my $.02, but I like this topic so I will try to keep it going for some good discussion. My department has a minimum of 12 on duty staffing 3 engines with 3, 1 truck with 2, and the duty chief. When we are above minimum additional staff goes to the truck. Engines handle the EMS runs so it has happened the truck has been 1st due with no water. It has also responded mutual aid and been the 1st company on scene. I have wondered if we rely too much on traditional roles of engines, rescues, and ladders as opposed to functions or tasks needed on the fire ground. I know the simple answer is to increase staffing but everyone knows how difficult it is these days. I have been contemplating a quint midi concept in place of an engine and the straight truck we operate now. If you talk to some people like Rochester they still have guys that were a proponent of the QM concept. Let the debate begin....

100 gal tank in the chiefs car, that will do it !

I disagree. All fire trucks should carry water............... in easily deployable 16-20 ounce plastic bottles.

In Hawthorne, Empress EMT's staff the ambulance, and Transcare provides the medic. So if you see an Empress EMT driving a Transcare flycar, now you know why!

From a person who has been in and around the fire service for the 28 Years, I can not think of any reason to do this.
Even if you used webbing to tie off the the end on the ladder, this is NUTS!!!
Come on, This is a NIOSH report waiting to happen.
Stay safe.

"There are still more than twice as many volunteers as career firefighters. But the number of volunteers has dropped by around 11 percent since the mid-1980s, while the number of career firefighters has grown more than 50 percent, according to the National Fire Protection Association. The allure has diminished because fund-raising now takes up roughly half the time most volunteers spend on duty. It’s also harder to fit in volunteer work. The rise in two-income households often means that there is no stay-at-home parent to run things so the other can dash off for an an emergency. Urbanization and the aging of the rural population are taking their toll as fewer young people are available to replace firefighters who retire."
This is the paragraph that sums up most of the truth behind the decline of volunteer firefighters in America (in my own humble opinion, that is). So much has changed in the last 30 years in our society, in our faimly lives and values, and what we select as our hobbies. The American psyche has always been to work hard and earn that cold hard cash, and it has really taken shape into what we see today, not just in society in general, but even with the volunteers that still make the sacrafice to make the first due rig.
The first portion of this paragraph states that the number of volunteer firefighters has dropped 11% since the mid-1980's. It's a sound number, though I can't seem to verify this because I cannot find it with in the source given (NFPA). Regardless, it is true that the number of volunteers has dropped quite significantly over the years. I remember as a kid, growing up in the late 80's, that there was always, and I mean always, a dozen guys hanging around the fire house every day. When I finally became the almighty probie at age 18, I noticed not as many were around, and there was always a struggle to get the first due out the door with an appropriate crew. I remember one of my first residential alarms where I was still a probie riding officer with just the driver, and my father was the sole man on the second due engine. There's not much you can do with three firefighters. Thankfully my hometown fire department turned around and the firs due was always full, even during the day time. But as Sage mentioned,
this was an exception to the general trend. Anyway, time always has a way of playing its little game, and the downslope comes way too quickly. After I moved away 6 1/2 years ago the downward spiral began again. It seems that we, as the volunteer fire service, get little bursts of hope, and then we fall right back into the same original problems that we thought we erased, and now we're back to square one.
fund-raising now takes up roughly half the time most volunteers spend on duty.
I'll dispute this a little, as I've never noticed this at the district/department level here in Westchester, or the Tri-State area in general. Yes, many fire companies are out there every weekend doing boot drops, or car shows, or selling Christmas trees, but none of these fundraising efforts go to the operational needs of the department. It's company level funding. On the other hand, I do know of departments upstate and across the nation that solely operate on fundraiser money. For example, a good friend of mine's father is the chief of a small rural district in Iowa (forgive me, I can't remember the name of the town). They have no fire tax. The town pays nothing to the fire department, and neither does the village. They operate with a $110,000 budget every year, which comes only from fundraising. This goes for new apparatus, too. Their new $600,000 engine/tanker was purchased with money earned from the blood, sweat and tears of the volunteers. Do you know how long it takes to raise $600,000 while also raising money for your operational funds? My friend's father told me it took about 8 years. Now, you have to remember, these volunteers went out and worked their butts off, in their free time, to raise the money for a place that barely afford to give them a free t-shirt. They make it work, but it takes a lot of work to make it happen.
The rise in two-income households often means that there is no stay-at-home parent
This is all too true. It's almost impossible to have a single-income household while you're trying to support a family. Taxes keep going up, inflation is exponentially growing, and there is no such thing as a break anymore. Myself, living in my tiny one bedroom closet, I spend $1000/month in rent alone, and then there's student loans, car payments, insurance, and so many other bills to attend to. And that's just for myself. Imagine if I was trying to support a family on my income alone. It's impossible these days. And never mind the two-income household thing, because some parents, and sometimes both, have to work second jobs to help pay the bills! Do you really think that you can retain a volunteer that works two jobs AND has a family, or let alone any social life? It takes true dedication to work, tend to the family, have a social life, be a good neighbor, and volunteer at the same time. And people wonder why the divorce rate amongst emergency service workers is so damn high! We drive ourselves crazy enough that our spouses/significant other go crazy and snap! I can attest that after working a double shift that I don't want to go to that ridiculous EMS call at 0130 for the drunk passed out. And I can attest that our dedication to the service has ended plenty of marriages (including my own parents). Being a volunteer has become a circus act of juggling a few too many items in our lives, and it's killing us.
Urbanization and the aging of the rural population are taking their toll as fewer young people are available to replace firefighters who retire.
Well, ain't this the scary truth. Let's look at the first word of that sentence. Urbanization. It's quite obvious that no where on this planet is becoming more rural. As our populations increase, the cities spill into the suburbs, and the suburbs spill into the rural communities. Everything is becoming more urbanized, which leads to more accidents, more fires, and more people needing emergency help. Unfortunately, there comes a point where a small group of volunteers can no longer handle the onslaught of calls, so municipalities hire paid firefighters and EMT's. Slowly you see a small town volunteer department evolve into a combination department, and eventually into a fully staffed carreer department. It takes time, but it happens. Us volunteers hit the tipping point, and the municipalty takes over. And the most unfortunate catalyst in this issue is that our youth, the fresh college grads and young adults, move closer to the cities, and feed into the urbanization of America. So now our rural departments, even those in the suburbs, are left with an aging population that is tired, moving slower, and growing less capable of doing the job they once did so meritoriously. I'll admit I've seen a crew of firefighters all 50+ in age do a heck of a job at a house fire. But how will they perform in their 60's? And who is replacing them? Oh, yeah, no one. All of the kids moved to the city, and they want to be paid to do the job. Understandably, who wouldn't want to be paid to fight fires all day? It's an exciting job. But, as more and more of our youth move to become paid firefighters in the cities, we struggle to find replacements for our aging volunteers. The sad truth is that people don't last forever, and unfortunately our tradition won't either if this trend continues down this path.
The recent trend has been the downward spiral of fewer volunteers, lesser funding, and more work for the few of us that still have the spark to keep our departments alive. It's tough. Life gets in the way, and we make sacrafices every day to prioritize what's truly important. We may pass on that EMS call, but we'll say good bye to the family when that structure fire gets toned out. Our wives will continue to yell at us, and the people we help will still continue to be grateful for us. It's a fine balancing act that comes with a little bit of dedication, a little motivation, and a whole lot of perseverence. The volunteer fire service, even with all of it's short comings, has always been a vital vertabrae in American society since the begining, and we need to preserve this virtue. Will the volunteer firefighter disappear for good? Yeah, in a few hundred years, long after we're gone. But, for now at least, let's keep getting out there a doing the job we love. Recruit retain, train and retrain, and be the best damn firefighters we can be. It's a fine balancing act that comes with a little bit of dedication, a little motivation, and a whole lot of perseverence.

"There are still more than twice as many volunteers as career firefighters. But the number of volunteers has dropped by around 11 percent since the mid-1980s, while the number of career firefighters has grown more than 50 percent, according to the National Fire Protection Association. The allure has diminished because fund-raising now takes up roughly half the time most volunteers spend on duty. It’s also harder to fit in volunteer work. The rise in two-income households often means that there is no stay-at-home parent to run things so the other can dash off for an an emergency. Urbanization and the aging of the rural population are taking their toll as fewer young people are available to replace firefighters who retire."
This is the paragraph that sums up most of the truth behind the decline of volunteer firefighters in America (in my own humble opinion, that is). So much has changed in the last 30 years in our society, in our faimly lives and values, and what we select as our hobbies. The American psyche has always been to work hard and earn that cold hard cash, and it has really taken shape into what we see today, not just in society in general, but even with the volunteers that still make the sacrafice to make the first due rig.
The first portion of this paragraph states that the number of volunteer firefighters has dropped 11% since the mid-1980's. It's a sound number, though I can't seem to verify this because I cannot find it with in the source given (NFPA). Regardless, it is true that the number of volunteers has dropped quite significantly over the years. I remember as a kid, growing up in the late 80's, that there was always, and I mean always, a dozen guys hanging around the fire house every day. When I finally became the almighty probie at age 18, I noticed not as many were around, and there was always a struggle to get the first due out the door with an appropriate crew. I remember one of my first residential alarms where I was still a probie riding officer with just the driver, and my father was the sole man on the second due engine. There's not much you can do with three firefighters. Thankfully my hometown fire department turned around and the firs due was always full, even during the day time. But as Sage mentioned,
this was an exception to the general trend. Anyway, time always has a way of playing its little game, and the downslope comes way too quickly. After I moved away 6 1/2 years ago the downward spiral began again. It seems that we, as the volunteer fire service, get little bursts of hope, and then we fall right back into the same original problems that we thought we erased, and now we're back to square one.
fund-raising now takes up roughly half the time most volunteers spend on duty.
I'll dispute this a little, as I've never noticed this at the district/department level here in Westchester, or the Tri-State area in general. Yes, many fire companies are out there every weekend doing boot drops, or car shows, or selling Christmas trees, but none of these fundraising efforts go to the operational needs of the department. It's company level funding. On the other hand, I do know of departments upstate and across the nation that solely operate on fundraiser money. For example, a good friend of mine's father is the chief of a small rural district in Iowa (forgive me, I can't remember the name of the town). They have no fire tax. The town pays nothing to the fire department, and neither does the village. They operate with a $110,000 budget every year, which comes only from fundraising. This goes for new apparatus, too. Their new $600,000 engine/tanker was purchased with money earned from the blood, sweat and tears of the volunteers. Do you know how long it takes to raise $600,000 while also raising money for your operational funds? My friend's father told me it took about 8 years. Now, you have to remember, these volunteers went out and worked their butts off, in their free time, to raise the money for a place that barely afford to give them a free t-shirt. They make it work, but it takes a lot of work to make it happen.
The rise in two-income households often means that there is no stay-at-home parent
This is all too true. It's almost impossible to have a single-income household while you're trying to support a family. Taxes keep going up, inflation is exponentially growing, and there is no such thing as a break anymore. Myself, living in my tiny one bedroom closet, I spend $1000/month in rent alone, and then there's student loans, car payments, insurance, and so many other bills to attend to. And that's just for myself. Imagine if I was trying to support a family on my income alone. It's impossible these days. And never mind the two-income household thing, because some parents, and sometimes both, have to work second jobs to help pay the bills! Do you really think that you can retain a volunteer that works two jobs AND has a family, or let alone any social life? It takes true dedication to work, tend to the family, have a social life, be a good neighbor, and volunteer at the same time. And people wonder why the divorce rate amongst emergency service workers is so damn high! We drive ourselves crazy enough that our spouses/significant other go crazy and snap! I can attest that after working a double shift that I don't want to go to that ridiculous EMS call at 0130 for the drunk passed out. And I can attest that our dedication to the service has ended plenty of marriages (including my own parents). Being a volunteer has become a circus act of juggling a few too many items in our lives, and it's killing us.
Urbanization and the aging of the rural population are taking their toll as fewer young people are available to replace firefighters who retire.
Well, ain't this the scary truth. Let's look at the first word of that sentence. Urbanization. It's quite obvious that no where on this planet is becoming more rural. As our populations increase, the cities spill into the suburbs, and the suburbs spill into the rural communities. Everything is becoming more urbanized, which leads to more accidents, more fires, and more people needing emergency help. Unfortunately, there comes a point where a small group of volunteers can no longer handle the onslaught of calls, so municipalities hire paid firefighters and EMT's. Slowly you see a small town volunteer department evolve into a combination department, and eventually into a fully staffed carreer department. It takes time, but it happens. Us volunteers hit the tipping point, and the municipalty takes over. And the most unfortunate catalyst in this issue is that our youth, the fresh college grads and young adults, move closer to the cities, and feed into the urbanization of America. So now our rural departments, even those in the suburbs, are left with an aging population that is tired, moving slower, and growing less capable of doing the job they once did so meritoriously. I'll admit I've seen a crew of firefighters all 50+ in age do a heck of a job at a house fire. But how will they perform in their 60's? And who is replacing them? Oh, yeah, no one. All of the kids moved to the city, and they want to be paid to do the job. Understandably, who wouldn't want to be paid to fight fires all day? It's an exciting job. But, as more and more of our youth move to become paid firefighters in the cities, we struggle to find replacements for our aging volunteers. The sad truth is that people don't last forever, and unfortunately our tradition won't either if this trend continues down this path.
The recent trend has been the downward spiral of fewer volunteers, lesser funding, and more work for the few of us that still have the spark to keep our departments alive. It's tough. Life gets in the way, and we make sacrafices every day to prioritize what's truly important. We may pass on that EMS call, but we'll say good bye to the family when that structure fire gets toned out. Our wives will continue to yell at us, and the people we help will still continue to be grateful for us. It's a fine balancing act that comes with a little bit of dedication, a little motivation, and a whole lot of perseverence. The volunteer fire service, even with all of it's short comings, has always been a vital vertabrae in American society since the begining, and we need to preserve this virtue. Will the volunteer firefighter disappear for good? Yeah, in a few hundred years, long after we're gone. But, for now at least, let's keep getting out there a doing the job we love. Recruit retain, train and retrain, and be the best damn firefighters we can be. It's a fine balancing act that comes with a little bit of dedication, a little motivation, and a whole lot of perseverence.

I agree, the article definitely has some flaws, and it also fails to acknowledge that so many fire departments are failing because they can't get with the times. If your idea of a recruitment plan consists of a signboard in front of the firehouse, you might want to consider getting some fresh blood into your recruitment committee.
There ARE some volunteer departments out there who are growing AND managing to consistently put well-trained Firefighters and EMTs on the street. Unfortunately they seem to be the minority.

A blanket response policy for "all" calls at a park or anywhere else is overkill. This wasn't a hiker lost on a trail. They stated they were in the parking lot, not a lot of confusion there. Is it really necessary to send three fire departments, two EMS units, and two PD's to a medical emergency at a known location?

Wow!

So if this was a bee sting in the parking lot, why wasn't it just an HFD response with an ambulance (and maybe a utility)? Or is Mount Pleasant requiring the large response for everything in the park? It just seems to me that too many responders were dispatched for what should be a simple response.

This is a normal response for a missing person or person injured on one of the trails. Also, there has been some arguing over the years of which jurisdiction the parking lot falls into.

This is a normal response for a missing person or person injured on one of the trails. Also, there has been some arguing over the years of which jurisdiction the parking lot falls into.

Just a reminder, this event is next Tuesday. Space is still available for the seminar and demo . They will both be at the Westchester County Fire Training Center, with sessions at both 1300hrs and 1900hrs.
I remember seeing a demo of this foam a while back, you have to see it in person to truly appreciate it as dwc said.

Again this does not refer to ambulances......
FAA Advisory Circular: http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/150_5210_5d.pdf
KKK-A-1822F: http://www.deltaveh.com/f.pdf

If I'm driving down the road and witness an accident where I can potentially render aid, then I would certainly stop if safe to do so. If I'm driving down the road and see local emergency crews on the scene of an accident, I'm going to keep on driving. I find it hard to believe that the IC was so desperate that they abandoned everything they know about ICS, department guidelines, state laws, and insurance liability and just threw two unknown people from out of state who claimed to be firefighters on a rig. This was a vehicle fire, not a Russian invasion.

We were dumb too but there were no video cameras or YouTube!

In the past its been referred to as thinning the herd.
Darwin refers to this as strengthening the gene pool and survival of the fittest

In the EMS field we refer to this as "job security"

I've seen this first hand, and my department now premixes it in all our water cans. Phenomenal stuff!

If you're far enough from your own jurisdiction or mutual aid districts, just stay in the car and keep driving. It's the safest thing to do, and it avoids all the confusion and BS of a story like this.
The only exception I would make, and this is a bit hypocritical of my above statement, is if someone's life was seriously in danger, such as a serious accident happens in front of you while you're driving down the highway. You have to stop anyway because the road is blocked, so you might as well check on victims to give the local 911 operators a better scene size up for the incoming IC. Once the FD, PD, and EMS are on scene, back away and let our brothers and sisters do their job.

I saw this in my e-mail today: DRONE VIDEO
Now I am sure we could all comment on the specific fire, but my first thought was could a drone be used as a tool by an IC? Would this be a cost effective way to get air recon in a department without rapid access to other aircraft? I am sure that a drone that could operate at or near a fire would need to be better quality than those ones that are little more than RC aircraft one can by at the local mall, but it does seem to have some possibilities.

All 'bout the Benjamin's.

IS it just me or does that yellow stripe look a little too much like it should say "DO NOT CROSS" on it?

While I personally favor the smoothbore, I have found that some combination nozzle proponents have fairly strong evidence to support their use in structural firefighting as well. When properly adjusted all the way to the right (right is right, left for lobster) the straight stream when flowed at the same gpm easily matches the reach and penetration in most interior fires. Many very experienced FD's use combo nozzles every day quite successfully. Our guys are split between using the Vindicator or the 15/16" tip, with the fog nozzles rarely stretched. With proper training (it took many years to erase the 30 degree fog lessons) the combination nozzle when flowed at adequate gpm work just fine. I'm not sure I'd select one when operating off a standpipe but, still many do, the key as always is proper application and use. I can say I doubt we'll ever buy another 100psi combo tip, but a 75 psi fog likely has a place on a well appointed engine.
As for TFT's and many of the other new gimmicks, I'd agree their just new ways to liberate dollars from unsuspecting customers.