lad12derff
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Posts posted by lad12derff
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"The wisdom was 'We know you're not going to fight fires at the same time generally' so you should be available (to help your neighbors)," Davis said.
I think we're all on the same page here about departments abusing mutual aid so I won't even touch that. But this quote is what worried me the most.
Really? I had no ideas fire worked that way. Apparently if a fire occurs in one town that makes it less likely for there to be another fire elsewhere. Amazing.
I now feel much safer going to work and knowing the chances of Mount Vernon catching a job is greater than us. So there is no way I'm going to be put in any kind of danger that tour. Thanks for clearing that up Ernie, I've been worrying all these years for nothing!!!!!
Westfield12 likes this -
I was asked to post this by a friend who is a WCPD officer who still owns a rotary phone. Officer Kelly was also a member of the Lake Mohegan Volunteer FD ( Past Member ) I was told.
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Danger, on 06 Mar 2015 - 10:33 PM, said:
ok here goes, the fire service in Westchester is FINE!!!! responses are great, fire ground accountability is perfect, manpower is more than enough.
NOW THATS THE DUMBEST THING WRITTEN IN THE HISTORY OF THIS WEBSITE!!!
Sorry to take away your title lad12erff.
No worries. You won't hold that title for long around here!!
dwcfireman and Morningjoe like this -
I have an idea....bear with me here....
Department A responds to a 10-75 with three engines and a ladder, all staffed with 4 (including the drivers). The Chief strikes out a second alarm for manpower. Department B sends an engine and ladder with 3 each, and Department C only gets an engine out with 4. However, 12 firefighters are sitting in Dept A's HQ because there are no more rigs to roll. What if just ONE of these departments had a transport bus (with a compartment to secure tools and SCBA (or already equipped with said equipment)), and was used as a troop transport? Couldn't that bus go to Dept A and pick up those firefighters, bring them to the scene, then rotate around the area departments to bring in manpower?
See, not every department would need a bus, just the same as not everyone having a mobile cascade unit. This is why we have mutual aid! If I have the MSU, a neighbor has a 12 passenger van, another has a light truck, and another has an LDH vehicle, through mutual aid we can share our resources.
Now, if your scene is blocked in an no additional apparatus can get in anyway, why not have a department with a bus or van shuttle in more manpower? You could even use the bus/van to solely transport firefighters from a staging area to the scene. I really don't see why people are getting upset about any department responding with a bus. It's a usable resource.
Thanks for responding quite accurately on how to implement, and I will Quote " Probably the dumbest thing I've read on this site in over ten years, impressive " the use of a bus to transport. I will now just sit back and continue to read more great ideas on this site and add my dumbness to the conversations!!!!!
dwcfireman likes this -
Probably the dumbest thing I've read on this site in over ten years, impressive
Glad I made history. Guess it's not dumber than parking 7 Engines on a 1 lane rd to transport manpower.
robert benz, Dinosaur and Morningjoe like this -
There are no hydrants in this area. This particular road happens to be a dirt road which in the best of seasons can barely accomodate two way traffic. It's one of those areas in town that a chief would dread having to deal with a structure fire on even in the middle of summer.
Here is a pretty important piece of information needed for a pre plan in the winter. Piles of snow on the side of the road which most likely made this a one lane road would tell me as an IC that I don't need 31 pieces of equipment on scene. ( that's what the assignment shows in the first post ) If you had a down FF how far away was EMS? Were they blocked in or out by all the equipment? Once again it always ends up that people don't want to learn from others and they really do get their panties all in a bunch. I'm sure this was a downright snotty job and fire was everywhere and all companies made that push in as we all talk about after the fire. I know in the 20 years i'm doing this all my fires were described as down right nasty, snotty old school jobs!! Get Real, the house was lost before you arrived. We have all pulled up to a losing battle!!!!
velcroMedic1987, Dinosaur and x152 like this -
Yeah I think we're confusing "alarm assignments" with "pre-plans." Those are not the same thing.
Or training with pre plans. You can train on tanker shuttles, and I'm sure they do, but if your going to try and correct someone please don't make a fool of yourself. How about all you guys who state that manpower was needed come up with a plan on how to get the manpower there without wasting equipment needed at home. We can't outfit a small bus with 8 SCBA's to transport members of a mutual aid dept to the scene? I guess it's not as fun to respond in on a job on a bus as it is an engine!
x152 likes this -
For someone not liking the monday morning quarterbacking, Sure seems thats exactly what your doing here questioning the decisions of the set pre plans, as well from the I.C who requested those companies there for man power. As well the tower ladder there was the original fast team until put to work.
You guys love to throw around that pre plan term but do you really know what it means. If I ask the COD of the Goldens Bridge FD for his pre plan of this house can he produce it? Please stop with BS terms you don't know nor use!
Dinosaur likes this -
I guess you have never heard the old saying " so goes the first line so goes the fire "
BFD1054 likes this -
So I have been watching this thread for a couple of days and really don't like to Monday morning QB but can someone explain to me why you would stretch not one but two 2 1/2 in hand lines into a 1800 Sq Ft residential fire? There are 2 things that are most needed to make that choice of a hand line successful. The 2 critical factors were most likely not met here. They did not have the manpower nor the water to operate these hand lines. I would think that those lines would produce about 500 GPM combined. That would certainly not be my choice as the first due Engine company officer who is counting on a tanker shuttle. A couple of 1 3/4 or 2 in lines would be the right choice to start out with as they are a lot more maneuverable in the confined qtrs. of residential fires. Leave the 2 1/2's to commercial fires and depts. that have the manpower to move them unless you are making a giant circle with one and sitting on the front lawn with it. I won't talk about the lack of exposures at the fire which would negate the need for 7 Engine companies and a tower ladder that most likely never made it up the driveway and would have better served its community by staying in qtrs. So I will end this session for all you Engine company officers out there to refresh upon. ( paid or volley )
There are several fire flow formulas in use today, but for the sake of space, we’ll only touch on two: the National Fire Academy (NFA) formula and the Iowa Rate of Flow. Each has pros and cons.
The NFA formula is based on offensive interior operations where less than 50 percent of the building is involved. The formula is:
Needed fire flow = [(length x width) ÷ 3] x percent of involvement
Example: For a 30' x 50' building that’s 25 percent involved, the flow would be 30 x 50 = 1,500 square feet, divided by 3 = 500 x 0.25 = 125 gpm.
Based on that required fire flow, one handline pumped at the correct pressure should be able to produce the required gpm.
The Iowa Rate of Flow is based on work performed by Keith Royer and Bill Nelson while they were working for Iowa State University’s fire training program. While studying the effects of fog streams on interior fires, the pair demonstrated that all you need to do is put the right amount of water in the right place for the fire to go out—something that’s often overlooked by the modern fire service.
The Iowa formula is:
Required volume = (length x width x height) ÷ 100Example: The same 30' x 50' building used in the first example is 10 feet high. 30 x 50 x 10 = 15,000, divided by 100 = 150 gpm.
The Iowa formula is based on science, while the NFA formula is based more on information gained from experienced fire officers from around the country. The Iowa formula is also based on a 30-second application rate, which is more applicable to today’s fireground, where application rates should be based on gallons per second, not gallons per minute.
I was on scene. In the beginning when lines were getting stretched there was absolutely no one there. Interior crews stretched (2) 2.5's through the snow. Then the one I was on went into the basement that had heavy fire and full of "junk" , crews went through multiple bottles until additional resources arrived. I am not sure if many of the 8 or 11 tankers that were called actually dumped water. The additional alarms in essence were called for manpower but based on the location and the pre-planned run cards were tanker heavy.
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Date:02/11/15
Time:0334 hrs
Location:49 Ffth ave
District: Station 3 The Fire Corridor
Units:E23,21,22,24 L13, TL11, 2302 30A2 NRPD
Description:Heavy fire on the first floor of a single family home with extention to the second floor and possible trapped occupant0337 E23 L13 10/84 transmitting the 10/75. PD advising that all occupants of the home are accounted for and with the PD
2 Lines stretched and operating with trucks opening up and primary under way
0430 under control and all units in the process of picking up
0545 all units 10/8
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Why are people so surprised this happened when you hear months of anti=police rhetoric from our elected officals, talking heads on TV and members of the Civil Rights Industry ( no longer a movement but a business),now some deranged person took all this in and took action. A similar event occurred in Harlem at Freddy's when a nut job listened to the banter ( from some of the same characters we had involved now) about white interlopers running stores in Harlem and took action and about seven people died in the hostage situation and resulting fire. When the language gets nasty and continuous on the 24 hour news cycle someone out there may go further as we just saw.
MLK is rolling over in his grave!! Way to go jack offs
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They are already showing up at the make shift memorial on the site of the assassination to be interviewed by the press. never let a tragedy go unused.
Sort of like the old kitchen table quote. Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story. They can go on TV and try to spin this any which way they please. The facts are indisputable. A gang member from Baltimore shot and killed his girlfriend ( most likely because she was going to out him on his plan ) and headed to NYC to " put wings on pigs today ". I can see the cover of the Times tomorrow. Ismaaiyl Brinsley was a good kid who was only weeks away from attending community college to get his life in order. He was active in his community ( selling crack to the community ) and a role model ( to the kids they hire to sell the crack ). His mother Ms Not his last name and father Mr not his last name ( because he a was being raised by his Aunt ) can't understand what went wrong in his life and can't believe those cops chased their son down the subway and shot him ( he would never kill himself ). Lets blame everyone in society for our problems and not look in the mirror and hold ourselves accountable. WHAT A TRAGEDY IN ALL ASPECTS OF THIS STORY. THANK YOU PRESIDENT OBAMA, MAYOR DEBLASIO, AL SHARPTON ( I refuse to use Rev in front of his name ) JESSE JACKSON AND ALL OF THE HATE SPEWING RACIST LEADERS IN THIS COUNTRY!!!!
SOUSGT, 27east, robert benz and 14 others like this -
Today in New Rochelle the " I Can't Breath" rally and march was postponed. I'll tell you can't breath---Those two cops in Brooklyn
We need that rally like we need a hole in the head! Can't you feel the tension in the streets of New Rochelle! What a joke by a joke of a council member looking for his 15 minutes of fame! Be a real leader and come up with a solution to the problem, not another hate monger. Lets just add gasoline to the flames spreading across America. Glad I'm off till Jan
Dinosaur, AFS1970, Remember585 and 1 other like this -
The question remains, can NYC survive for three more years under this administration ???
I think the real question is can the NYPD survive when Bratton resigns and DeBlasio appoints some other member of his progressive left wing liberal party to run the world greatest PD. Bratton has been associated as a cops commissioner and most likely won't continue to be associated with a boss who has tied his hands.
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I hope the NYPD sends out a call to arms to ALL Uniformed personnel ( PD, FD, EMS ) to block all the roads leading up to the LODD funerals of PO Liu and PO Ramos from all politicians who are looking for another soapbox to stand on. All uniformed should stand united, arms locked and make these POS politicians try and walk the " walk of shame " through the sea of Blue. It is time to stand united!!!
trauma74, Bottom of Da Hill and Capejake72 like this -
May they rest in peace. I hope their funerals draw the largest contingent of police officers from around the country that there has ever been. A million man march of cops, a show of solidarity so enormous that it will shake the very cores of the feckless politicians who embrace the likes of Sharpton and his ilk. There is no question that the deaths of these officers has a direct link not only to the rabble rousers like Sharpton but to the comments of politicians like DeBlasio, Holder and Obama who profit from the phony race narrative they put forth. And, a special FU to NBC for providing a known racial arsonist a platform and means of legitimacy not deserved.
I hope that their funerals draw the largest gathering of law abiding citizens ever. This was not only a domestic act of terrorism and assassination of those sworn to protect us, this was an attack on each and every American who believes in law and order. We cannot accept this and we must rise up from the ashes and put the political correctness to bed. This act was not delivered from the black community but was delivered by those who fan the flames of hate. The leaders ( not ) of this country who have given Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and the rest of the racist $hit stirrers out there a platform to speak will forever be remembered at this turning point for what they have created. God bless PO Liu, PO Ramos, the NYPD and all of America at this dark hour in our time!!!!!
Remember585 likes this -
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They are simply following the leaders they have. Mayor Douche bag turned his back on them and now it's time to reap the seeds the Mayor has sowed. All the years of blood and sweat the NYPD put in under the greatest Mayor of all time is for naught. Good job a$$hole!!!
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They do 5000 runs a year. That's insane
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Thanks for the info Brothers!
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While lost in Newark last night trying to find my way back to 78 East I was passed by 2 Newark EMS ambulances and an EMS Heavy Rescue going to a job. Can someone tell me what the EMS Heavy Rescue's role is in Newark?
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in Westchester County Area Emergency Services News
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I'm a little confused here. Yonkers is roughly 2 3/4 larger in population than Mt Vernon and only lost 1 more Engine company than Yonkers? Not to mention that Yonkers has 4 man companies and Mt Vernon has 3 ( ? ) man companies. Please fill me in as to why the YFD president should be screaming that he has been cut more that MVFD!!!! Yes we are understaffed, Yes Mt Vernon catches a ton of work, Yes the powers to be continue to send us to "help" Mt Vernon. What is the answer? What are the" worker bees " to do when ordered to respond by the " queen bee " ?. I will take any P.M. suggestion so as to not make public what should be done. I spent 6 years assigned to a company that was sent to Mt Vernon on a regular basis, I understand fully what they are up against, I have attended many an invite at 3:00 am to Mt Vernon, I do not know the answer to stopping the abuse.