Bnechis

Forgive my ignorance but why is a paramedic riding BLS calls? Does Peekskill EMS utilize paid staff?

This is happening all over Westchester. Flycar medics are transporting BLS calls because local agencies can not or will not provide minimum staffing.

In the past its been referred to as thinning the herd.

Darwin refers to this as strengthening the gene pool and survival of the fittest

Many Municipalities can, but refuse to comply. All you ever hear is" fires are down" from local Officials. Taxpayers want their garbage picked up and to feel safe so the DPW and PD don't take the hits as much when it comes crunch time.

Eastchester Fire District is not a municipality but the taxpayers can not on a per capita basis cover a dept that meets the standards.

On top of that the states tax cap is forcing communities to make cuts. these cuts will continue every year. This was also predicted and everyone said, oh no it will never happen or never effect my dept.

Mutual aid isn't the problem. It's the people running the place. If they did their job and gave Eastchester the fire department the staffing and equipment they deserve instead of playing political games with the firefighters over what they are contractually due, then maybe Eastchester could get back to handling a room and contents fire by itself again.

you need 75 FF.s to cover eastchester FD? seems like alot just saying.

A lot based on?

You need to staff Engine 29, Engine 30, Engine 31, Ladder 16, Tower Ladder 17, and Car 2102 each and every shift You are going to normally have guys out on sick, on vacation, training, etc. It may seem like a lot, but it really isn't. And that figure still doesn't take into account proper and recommended staffing.

They need to figure out a way to make sure the guys out on extended disability doesn't affect staffing. But Barry may know more about this....departments may be bound by state law on these kinds of situation.

Wow, you guys have run short staffed for so long you have not got a clue what proper staffing is. And I am not talking about this latest crisis. 75 firefighters lets see how short you really are........

To staff 4 engines (you mentioned 3, but don't you run 4), 2 ladders and a command unit to meet the minimum standards to respond to a 2,000 sq ft. single family house without a basement requires a minimum of 26 firefighters per shift. That 12 more than you currently run.

That gives you 3 firefighters and 1 officer on EVERY RIG.

To maintain 26 per shift you need 104 firefighters plus the additional members who are assigned to staff (training, codes, chief, etc.) you also need to cover contractual overtime which means each member would work an additional 20% or you need to go to 5.2 FTE's to staff your rigs, which would bring the total dept size to 135 (plus staff).

You are fighting for table scraps when you really need a steak diner. And you seem willing to accept the scraps.

And while you think you can handle a room & content fire under the "normal" staffing, you are cutting way too many corners and putting yourselves and the citizens at risk.

Now I can guarantee you will never see the numbers you should have. In fact I predicted 6 years ago that most of the career depts. were going to see staffing reductions and that we could either consolidate or each dept would suffer. I figured that we were spending the same amount of money to staff rigs with one or two as a consolidated dept would spend with 4 on a rig.

22 firefighters & officers on a response was what I proposed, and the response from almost everyone is we do not want that.

Now every one of the depts. is either fighting to survive (and I'm sorry but those that run with less than OSHA requires are not surviving) or has already faced the reductions (and more are coming).

Go read the NIST study's on staffing. They proved that fewer better staffed rigs do a better job than lots of understaffed ones do. They actually proved that 2 + 2 = 3

when 2 firefighter engines team up with another 2 firefighter engine, they are only as effective as a 3 firefighter engine and the standard says 4 minimum.

Times are changing? How? The abuse of mutual aid by many fire departments has been going on for decades. It's not always the same department(s) but it's always the same song. I've heard mutual aid for rubbish fires to warehouse fires in both volunteer and paid departments.

The bottom line is we keep ignoring the fact that only a couple of departments in the STATE comply with NFPA standards for minimum response and we allow people to believe that there is no problem when we are dangerously close to a major shortage of qualified firefighters in the region.

You hit the nail on the head!

That's all well and good Barry but when the bell rings and the guys in eastchester need help what are you gonna do? Copy and paste something that was written 20+ years ago. Times are changing.

I'm going to cover the taxpayers of New Rochelle, since that's what I swore to do. If Eastchester requests help and I am dispatched I am more than happy to go help.

This is the current mutual aid plan.

This was adopted by the County on December 19, 2012

But isn't mutual aid about helping neighboring departments out when they need help? Thats what I was under the impression it was for.

This is right out of the Westchester County Fire Mutual AId Plan, Section 1 Purpose

"It is expected that Plan participants shall first expend and exhaust all of their own resources prior to placing a Mutual Aid request. Mutual Aid is intended to be reserved for extreme circumstances. It is not intended to be routine, nor should it become abusive or an unreasonable burden to the Fire Agencies providing assistance."

Thanks for the information. When New Rochelle responds with Rescue 4, is it still staffed by the crew on Tower Ladder 11? Putting them out of service? Who brings Rescue 54 and with what kind of staffing?

Yes Rescue 4 is cross staffed and when it goes in service TL-11 goes out. Normally E-21s crew will take R-54

I just saw a pic on another site. It was carrying an all wheel drive 8 wheel (4 axle) military support vehicle. I can not tell what it is

im with you brother new NRFD and WPFD had it under control 100%.the freelancing has to stop!

Thanks.

The only way that type of freelancing stops is with strong Incident command which is almost non-existing in Westchester. Once the lead agency gets things established at an incident, Set up a hot zone, do a PAR check and if personnel are in the zone that do not belong ask them to go back to staging. If that does not resolve it ask for a supervisor from their agency to respond to the CP.

Couldn't L-13 Become the mutual aid truck? It's just a change on paper isn't it? NRFD has always been a good neighbor to EFD. Theres no doubt about that. E24 and E22 go on mutual aid based on location. Couldn't the same thing be done with the trucks too?

Any rig could be mutual aid but they generally are not. E-24 almost never has gone mutual aid. E22 & L12 are it because of standards of cover. Its not just on paper. If L-13 goes then 75% of our city is left uncovered until we relocate L-12 to station #3. So until we do what is done in many other places like MD, VA, OR, MI, WI, CA and drop boarders and do closest unit responses this is what works best for our community.

We use the Cruisers

Which mutual aid truck is closest to the north end fire house. L-13 or Scarsdale's truck? Eastchester has always been there when their neighbors have needed help its time to reciprocate. Most important though is the members stay safe.

L-13 is not a mutual aid truck, L-12 is.

We do reciprocate, (actually we go there much more than they come to us). but this is not about the neighbors needing help this is about a district that has decided to cut back on services to its community. The taxpayers of adjacent communities should not have to cover the cost. Particularly since the fiscal management of the district has been very questionable in its dealings with the North End Station and this ladder.

I never said that the pulmonary function was required. I said that they refused to do anything but that (Pulmonary function and fit test). It was agreed upon by all the labor lawyers on "their" interpretation of the standard. The Career firefighters involved refused other components that seemed to be the standard when I was on the job (EKG, blood work, X-ray, pulmonary function, med Hx, etc).

The labor lawyers can interpret it how ever they want to, since the only interpretation that really counts is DOL's administrative law judge.

Having this "agreement" on the books only serves to protect the fire dept. and will make it impossible for the firefighters to claim disability in the future or for their next of kin to ever file suit.

duplication of services is being done rite now with the fire service and county PD SOD team.what a waste of tax payers money.what about the PD budgets?

Is it really a duplication or smoke & mirrors? Thursdays Trench rescue in Rye had 2 WCPD SOD responders with no equipment freelancing while NRFD & WPFD had about 20 and the county TRT another doz or so.

The cost of the membership is worth it IF you are planning on purchasing a number of documents & services. since they discount for members.

I know of career firefighters that refused to take any sort of medical and did not have to because of the interpretation of how the medical standard was written. They were only required to do a pulmonary function and fit test.

Can you tell me where it says they only have to do a pulmonary function test?

Nowhere in the law does the term "pulmonary function test" come up.

29CFR 1910.134 Medical evaluation. Using a respirator may place a physiological burden on employees that varies with the type of respirator worn, the job and workplace conditions in which the respirator is used, and the medical status of the employee. Accordingly, this paragraph specifies the minimum requirements for medical evaluation that employers must implement to determine the employee's ability to use a respirator.

What it goes on to say is that a medical professional must make the determination if the employee may where a respirator. The pulmonary function test maybe a component of that.

Barry... I think what he means is that we have ONE FD for all 3 municipalities. We cover just under 5 square miles, just under 40K residents; everything from 1 1/2 single family frames to old law 7 story brick to hi-rise OMD. There are 3 separate Town Halls; 3 separate Police Depts; 3 separate DPW; 3 separate Courts; and 3 separate School Districts.

I understood that, but my point was that since the EFD is older than the villages, its not that the FD merged, its the villages separated and the FD remained constant. a 5 sq mile town is not a region.

Isn't Eastchester already sort of a regional department? They cover one town (Eastchester) and two villages (Bronxville and Tuckahoe).

No. Eastchester covers 1 town. the town is 350+ years old.

The Eastchester FD was founded in 1897 (I think that's the year, if anyone has a better date, please post)

The village of Bronxville was incorporated in 1898 so they had additional say in local issues.

The village of Tuckahoe was incorporated in 1902 so they had additional say in local issues.

Since the Eastchester FD was covering the whole town of Eastchester before the two villages existed its not a regional dept, just a town one.

you say the volunteers have been taken out of the response for a few years now what is there job then in eastchester fire dept they used to be one of the biggest volunteer organizations in lower westchester along with mt vernon which also eliminated volunteers back in the 80s i think. now look they cant afford to pay people to do the job or even fix thier stations so the politicains say , do the volunteers in eastchester even have any say what goes on i do believe that the people need to get to the district meetings and see what is being done with your tax money and why they donot have better protection and equipment.

Like many other volunteer fire around the region, state and nation, they are gone.

The volunteers in many combo depts. have no say because they refused to meet the most minimum of standards as set by law. I know of at least 5 depts. where the volunteers refused to have medicals and refused to meet the OSHA minimum training standards. So the depts. changed their status from volunteer to civilian.

Just a question about the Rye trench collapse today. White Plains, New Rochelle, and Westchester County DES all had their Collapse units there. How many members responded with each team? Who was the primary collapse team and who/when did they first arrive? And, who decides which team does what?

New Rochelle & White Plains are part of the Westchester Special Operations Task Force (WSOTF) and both regularly train together along with Eastchester, Fairview, Greenville, Hartsdale, Scarsdale, Mt Vernon, Yonkers and recently Pelham Manor and Larchmont have been added. Our plan is to always send a minimum of 2 squads giving us at least 10ffs/2off.

At todays Incident NR, WP & WCTRT were all dispatched at approximately the same time. NRFD command officers arrived seconds ahead of WPFD R-88. Afew minutes later NRFD R4 & R54 (collapse Unit) arrived another approx. 7 minutes WPFD Collapse unit arrived.

White Plains & NRFD personnel worked as a team using NRFD & WPFD equipment. Their struts from R-88 were staged 1st and used while our trench panels arrived and were in the ground before theirs arrived.

The local IC decides, based on input from the teams.

WCTRT arrived at some point after that (a few of their members were on-scene earlier, but without equipment). They were staged as a back-up and also assisted ConEd in setting up the 2nd VAC truck..

Bnechis

Confused now. I reviewed my original post and all subsequent responses I made, as well as others. I can't find where I mentioned or tied this into "Federal Grant?"

Appreciate, however, your explanation. I'm still not so sure, however, whether its 100 percent "voluntary" tax donations for tax break benefits of the donor. As opposed to having some surplus of tax-payer money that perhaps goes into a general fund to help subsidize such grants.

Your PDF letter clearly states:

"Funding for the program is provided by New York State residents who have designated on their NYS income tax form that a voluntary contribution be made on their behalf for this purpose."

"And, most importantly, this is program where state residents generously volunteer to fund these organizations who daily make a difference in their communities."

Your Federal tie in was this post (below). I answered and asked a lot of questions based on this path, which had nothing to do with the grant in question.

http://www.dhs.gov/news/2013/08/23/dhs-announces-grant-allocation-fiscal-year-fy-2013-preparedness-grants

Bnechis,

Hopefully this will narrow down as to specifically which grant am speaking of or referring to. If not, this is all I was able to find. Or that had been released to the public at the time

it was shared with the media. http://www.dhses.ny.gov/media/documents/releases/Volunteer-Firefighter-Emergency-Services-Personnel-Recruitment-Retention.pdf If it still doesn't

I'm sorry, this is the best I could do.

Yes, now I know what you are talking about.

This is a NYS grant that has nothing to do with the federal grants you posted the link to.

It is also not a "tax payer" funded grant. All of the money in this grant was donated by taxpayers who agreed to a smaller tax refund in order to fund this.

You also indicated that the award was for $390,000. That was the amount of all of the funds (that were donated to NYS) and given to 21 different organizations. The highest award was $25,000. Three FD's in Dutchess received, $13,000, $13,330 and $20,500 and a VAC in Putnam received $17,700 which is not a lot of $$$ to do recruitment & retention.

There is a Fire District in the Hudson Valley of which I previously but no longer volunteer with for personal reasons that was awarded the Grant by New York State for the purpose of Recruiting and retaining volunteers. I'm speaking in the person of a "tax-payer" and feel this district may possibly be abusing the funds. The district in question of which city I wish to remain anonymous has used this money to 1) Hire paid recruiter/retention specialists, one whom quit several months ago, and about a month ago hired a Recruitment & Retention Coordinator. 2) Has been dispensing stipends for taking Firefighting Essentials. But for those wishing to take the EMT class are being told they would need to pay out of their pocket up front. When I was with this district the district paid. I had to have the Director of EMS sign and vouch for my eligibility. So long as organization was a PCR reporting agency the state absorbs the tuition, that's my interpretation of it, correct me if am wrong. My argument and question here, why are they only compensating volunteers that take the firefighting essentials, but not the members wishing to becoming NYS EMT's? The other stipend am concerned about of which had been dispensed was for taking the annual required OSHA training. Lastly, my concern is from several months back where I read the Asst Chief of the district would use grant money to absorb costs for advertising for volunteers. Just curious if all this is in alignment with the terms and agreements of the usage of grant money.

It all depends on what the dept wrote in their application. If they wrote "stipend for fire training" and did not include "EMT training" then they are following the rules.

paying for a consultant or a coordinator sounds find, if it was in their application and advertising sounds like a way to recruit members, was probably in the application.

We are talking very little money that was NOT taxpayer funded. And NYS does very detailed audits of all its grant programs. The FD has to pay up front and get reimburse and if the dept. was spending a cent on anything not specifically covered in the grant, they will not be reimbursed.

Now the real issue is does any of this $$$ actually work to R & R. in the past most programs were a failure and a waste of funds. But in this case since it was not tax dollars wasted, I am not concerned with it.

Pardon, correcting myself here. New York State Department of Homeland Security & Emergency Services is the agency of whom department made application to and was awarded the

grant in the amount of $390,000.00 per letter to agency dated 4/9/2013.

http://www.dhs.gov/news/2013/08/23/dhs-announces-grant-allocation-fiscal-year-fy-2013-preparedness-grants

Ok that slightly narrows it down. Now which program?

Almost all of the programs do not appear to be eligible for this type of department or its program.

State Homeland Security Program (SHSP)—provides more than $354 million to support the implementation of state homeland security strategies to build and strengthen preparedness capabilities at all levels. The 9/11 Act requires states to dedicate 25 percent of SHSP funds to law enforcement terrorism prevention activities.

Urban Areas Security Initiative (UASI)—provides nearly $559 million to enhance regional preparedness and capabilities in 25 high-threat, high-density areas. The 9/11 Act requires states to dedicate 25 percent of UASI funds to law enforcement terrorism prevention activities.

Operation Stonegarden (OPSG)—provides $55 million to enhance cooperation and coordination among local, tribal, territorial, state, and Federal law enforcement agencies to jointly enhance security along the United States land and water borders.

Emergency Management Performance Grants (EMPG) Program—provides more than $332 million to assist local, tribal, territorial, and state governments in enhancing and sustaining all-hazards emergency management capabilities.

Tribal Homeland Security Grant Program (THSGP)—provides $10 million to eligible tribal nations to implement preparedness initiatives to help strengthen the nation against risk associated with potential terrorist attacks and other hazards.

Nonprofit Security Grant Program (NSGP)—provides $10 million to support target hardening and other physical security enhancements for nonprofit organizations that are at high risk of a terrorist attack and located within one of the 25 FY 2013 UASI-eligible urban areas.

Intercity Passenger Rail - Amtrak (IPR) Program—provides more than $9 million to protect critical surface transportation infrastructure and the traveling public from acts of terrorism and increase the resilience of the Amtrak rail system.

Port Security Grant Program (PSGP)—provides more than $93 million to help protect critical port infrastructure from terrorism, enhance maritime domain awareness, improve port-wide maritime security risk management, and maintain or reestablish maritime security mitigation protocols that support port recovery and resiliency capabilities.

Transit Security Grant Program (TSGP)—provides more than $83 million to owners and operators of transit systems to protect critical surface transportation and the traveling public from acts of terrorism and to increase the resilience of transit infrastructure.

. My concern or question here is, is it legal? Does it follow the guidelines for usage? That is the matter at hand here! Thanks for all the input folks!

How about you identify the grant? What entity gave them the grant?

I know FASNY has a grant for this, but have not heard of a "NYS" grant.