Bnechis

In terms of the EMT payments, you are correct. As long as you are a member of an agency with a DOH number, and you pass the class, the class is "free", at least to you and your agency.

"Free"....Maybe.

The DOH has a specific maximum amount that it will reimburse the training facility with, on a per student bases, if the student passes and their agency has a #.

The training facility is allowed to charge up front & reimburse you if you pass. The training facility may also charge more than the reimbursable rate.

So it might be free and it might not be.

A very important part of fire training is being left out and that is Chief's Training, it would stand to reason that after probie training of 229 hours ( at least) , 100 hours in service and 160 hour first line Officers course, the next logical step would have the Standards Commission mandate a Chief Officers Course, NYS law states in order to be a barber you need more than 1000 hours training and none to be a fire chief, that is crazy. This would be a good cause for the various Fire Organization to champion.

To answer the original question there is a Captain's Development Course that was originally 2 weeks, was 4 by the time I went, and might now be up to 5. About a week of it focuses on the job of Captain and the rest is all about preparing Captains to be Acting Battalion Chiefs.

The Battalion Chief's command course is now 8 or 9 weeks. There is a tremendous amount of material presented on a great number of topics.

There's a class for Deputies. It's relatively new and I'm not sure the length.

Snotty, your point is well taken and as you can see, FDNY thinks this is important and commits about 200 hours to captains, 320-360 to BC and additional for DC's.

This is all because to many agencies have forgot the only reason for existing is the patient and not for the organization or the members.

ITS ALL ABOUT THE PATIENT!

I wish the State DOH would start to question agencies that have a pattern of failing to respond or major delays in responding as to why should they be allowed to maintain their C.O.N.

I don't want to hijack the topic, but I had to respond the above.

I was homeless for a period recently. Literally living on the streets homeless in Los Angeles. I was treated MUCH differently then someone who is a "high end taxpayer"....especially when you consider those "high end taxpayers" were living just a few miles away in Beverly Hills. I walked..no at that point dragged myself.....several miles to a hospital, making my condition/injuries significantly worse, because I was embarrassed and worried of the EMS stigma of homeless people abusing the system. I've paid both income and properties taxes for many years.....but unfortunately, I was down on my luck for a period of time....why should response times be any different for me when I was homeless then a "high end taxpayer"? Shouldn't response times be the same for EVERY human being, despite whatever stigma blankets a group of people? And maybe if we are worried about the "homeless drunks" abusing the system stereotype....maybe we should blame our healthcare and social services system....or even sadder, our VA system. Or, maybe our EMS systems not interfacing with a social service system to get people long term help. It's not as easy as you think for a homeless person to get the consistent long term help him/her needs. </rant>

Seth I understand your experience and perspective on this is different than most. But it still does not change the fact that in Westchester the poor residence of many communities got ALS 25 years before the tax payers in many communities. We had agencies in Northern Westchester that were against ALS, even if it was free. The services provided and the response times in the worst neighborhoods in NYS, Newark, Yonkers Mt Vernon, etc. are vastly better than those in communities where the property taxes alone start at 50k.

I remember a certain VAC Capitan telling me a 20 min response time is very acceptable.

It is very respectable, but only when you consider that some agencies on some days take 60-90 to get a call covered.

On the same note its criminal that the homeless in every city get an ambulance in 8 minutes or less and a high end taxpayer gets a hope and a prayer.

Wow, the FDNY group must have been quite a collection of misfits. You were light years ahead of even the instructors in vehicle extrication and all of the FDNY guys failed the search course while you rescued 3 civilians and a downed FF. while getting yourself out safely also. I can only imagine that the entire FDNY crew were demoted or sent back through probie school after you graduated.

You took this very differently than I had intended.

1st the FDNY group were the top 45 guys on a new list. 42 came from trucks, 1 rescue, 1 engine & 1 FM.

2nd. Yes in extrication we were way ahead as at the time only FDNY Rescues practiced it and NYPD ESU was responsible city-wide for it.

3rd My point (which I may have missed) was that because we operate differently we have different outcomes. The upstate depts. have no back up on search, no more truck companies and as such the upstate crews were more conservative which lead to finding fewer victims. But also ment when the time limit hit we were not as deep. I do not know if the time line was a realistic one, but it was very effective from a training perspective. The FDNY crews were more aggressive because the normally know they have more back-up, so they covered more ground and found more victims. I also think the scenario was less realistic for FDNY crews than upstaters, in you normally have more than a single 3 man search team.

Very similar experiences and outcomes between both Groups! Makes you wonder!

No the outcomes were very different. We were very upset that we had on averaged missed 1/2 the victims. But learned so much from it that we would not make those mistakes again.

Several VAC's in Westchester (and Putnam and Dutchess too?) have an paid EMT to help cover calls. I've been listening to my scanner, and several agencies still have trouble getting crews. Why not just hire another paid EMT so you have a full crew? What is the point of one EMT when you have to page multiple times for another EMT or Driver and not get one?

And the 4 or so other VAC's in the same town(s) are doing the same. It would be much better to take those 2 one manned ambulances and CONSOLIDATE into 1 two manned unit so response times would be reasonable.

Each of these agencies is paying 1 EMT to do 1 or 2 calls in 12 hours. Most city ambulances are doing 8-12 calls in that time.

Big waste of $$$ and the response times still stink.

The small departments really showed us "big city" guys how they attempted to "do more with less". We all got a lot out of the class, and had a lot of laughs.

When I was there we had 2 sections that forced the comparison:

1) Extrication. FDNY was just adding tools to ladder companies so they wanted to review procedures that some of the FDNY LT's had not practiced since probie school 10-15 years prior. So we di side by side cars. They worked on basic door pops, while the instructors told us to do what ever we wanted as they new we all did more extrication than any of the instructors. So we flipped one car on its roof & another on its side and had fun.

2) Floor above victim search in a tenement. This was EXCELLENT. 3 member teams sent to search for up to 6 members of a family missing on the floor above. 20 teams (15 FDNY teams, 5 "upstate teams), I was teamed with 2 members from Illion, NY. The apt. we searched was fully furnished, including bedding and clothing and empty bottles on the table. The walls were only 1/2 height and the instructors had platforms above so they could see & film our searches. at about the 10 minute mark the radio would advise that the engine on the fire floor lost water and we needed to get out. As we were evacuating we heard a pass alarm from the back of the apt. (we were previously advised that the OV from another truck was back there). We had another 3 minutes to find him and get out before the apt. "flashed".

What was most interesting as we watched the 20 teams on video we found the "Upstate" teams averaged finding 3 of the victims and the OV, plus the team got out before the apt. flashed. The FDNY teams found all 6 victims and the OV, but all 15 search teams and all victims were killed when the apt flashed.

The FDNY Lts now attend for 5 weeks, one additional after the upstate guys are done.

As an "Upstate guy" my commute was shorter and closer to the City than any of the 45 FDNY Lt's in my class (total 60, with 15 "up staters"). Most drove 45 min to an hour each way from as far as Orange County. I'd roll out of bed and be at the rock in under 15.

I'm not a fan of motorolla 2 way radios I like kenwood more as it's easier and cheaper to program yourself

You get what you pay for.

Yes its easier & cheaper and fewer feature particularly on the firefighter safety issues. And yes anything is easier to program than Motorola

I know this has been brought up before, but I don't recall the answer. If the County can absorb police services, why can't the County absorb fire services as part of its 'Department of Public Safety' umbrella?

Barry?

State law is silent on who provides law enforcement, other than the requirement to have law enforcement, so village town, county (which includes Sheriff) or State is acceptable.

State law specifically prohibits county fire. In fact in the 1980's they had to pass laws to allow counties to run hazmat teams and in the 1990's to run USAR teams.

just curious as to what brand of radios are prefered for personal and or dept use and why?

Depends on what you are trying to do with them.

Motorola tends to be much more expensive than other brands, but they have features that are not available in other brands. The ability to do electronic roll calls, evacuations and for the dispatch or command post to see if a radio is dying or changing to another channel.

Unless I'm reading it wrong it's 5 section aerial's only??.

Correct

And Mamaroneck's TDA is not one of the models listed

Did anyone call 60 or the EMS office and ask them?

They did not write this. I did and the original agency #'s (without the A, B, M or u) was transferred from a previous version that predates the EMS office and it was done by the Westchester EMS council (which predates the Westchester REMSCO)

Is it possible that number 71 was reserved for Mt. Vernon anyway? 85 is also missing and that fits in where Yonkers would be (between 84 Vista and 86 Yorktown). I know Yonkers used to have a VAC but I figured that was longer than 20 years ago.

If that were true, we would have left room for NR & WP.

It's like I said if m.v is relying on mutual aid for every fire they get and departments go in on mutual aid why even discuss adding manpower to their own department ,why spend the money.If nobody goes in on mutual aid who are they gonna use to back up the already short handed on duty crews,the p.d. or the highway workers.They are gonna eventually have to do the right thing.

How is this different than 99% of the depts. in Westchester? Which departments do not call for mutual aid when they have a fire?

About 6 months back their was a dept that requester about 8 depts. mutual aid to handle a room and content fire.

If no one comes to assist them, the mayor will claim, they cant afford it and the loss is because the mutual aid companies refuse to help. Nothing will change. Meanwhile, the brothers on the line will take a beating, while everyone sits back and claims they are helping them by not coming to their aid.

1) Does the "requested" department need a "valid" reason not to respond, such as they are busy with their own call, or something of that nature.

2) Or, can the "requested" Department just say no, we are not going to that department/city/town anymore.

3) I am asking if an outside Depatment can refuse to respond due to disagreeing with the way the requesting department is being run.

4) Did Yonkers give a reason why they will no longer respond into Mt. Vernon?

1) The "plan" says you are suppose to respond if you can. But you are not required to give a reason if you can not.

2) The system does not document that. Their is no place to put "no" into what you are going to do.

3) Each Fire Chief fills out who he wants and for what and in what order. If everytime you are asked to respond you are "unavailable" for what ever the reason, the chief will change his request list, because its not helping him.

Everyone keeps assuming that YFD will not respond to MVFD, but if they are not called, they clearly never will (btw I know YFD was in MV on MA within the past 2 months).

4) YFD has in the past said they will respond to fires or station coverage when asked, but they expect the dept to make an effort to recall to restaff the dept. and they will not cover a station indefinitely

Maybe the way that neighboring departments could help is stop running on mutual aid.I believe that Yonkers does not go in anymore.I think the mayor and council doesn't address the manpower shortage is they know if their is a job other municipalities will come into m.v.to back city firefighters so why spend money to add staffing.

What makes you think the Mayor would change? If the next major fire no one shows up mutual aid, do you think he will go out and hire?

Was located at 40 Northwood Circle, not 35 (they were the caller).

2nd Alarm

E-25,23,21,22,24

L-13,11,12

2302

2301, 2306

MSU-3

Covering:

L-73

Sq-11

Bat2

TL-3

Sq-15

Recall

2304 (operating in U-91)

E-17

L-14

But the Mayor fails to acknowledge that the majority of members who are out sick are out on service connected injuries or illness due to exposure from documented contamination in the fire stations.

Understaffing is the leading cause of service connected injuries.

For the most part the list is alphabetical. The only exceptions that come to mind are cortlandt vac (dept 8800) and montrose VA hospital (48B1). 7100 may have been assagined to mount Vernon hospital back in the day. I have a friend that is sort of an EMS history guru. I'll ask and report back.

Mt Vernon Hospital got out of the biz 20 years before we wrote the number system. Cortlandt Vac was started after the numbering system, that's why its not in the alphabetical order. Note: I say we, because it was written by a small committee and it was 1st written on my PC.

And Montrose VA was added to the municipal/commercial numbers 30's & 40's since it clearly was not a volunteer agency (50's - 80's)

The communities that contract for service or having an independent fly car were issued numbers in the 30's:

30 - New Rochelle

31 - White Plains

32 - Mt Vernon

33 - Yonkers

34 - Yorktown Medic

35 - Cortlandt Medic

36 - Briarcliff/Croton Medic

37 - Mt Pleasant Medic

38 - Pelham Medic

39 - Peekskill Medic

40's were used for commercial services.

I do not remember if there was a 71,

But Mt. Vernon has never had a VAC. They have had: Transcare, Empress, Abbey Richmond, AA, Affiliated and before that Mt Vernon Fire Dept and before that Mt Vernon Hospital ran it.

1) When the Union President stated that it was okay to just tell the other paid firefighter that he was sick and left the job without telling anyone else, that hits me as extremely strange, especially since he was one of only two paid on duty. Shouldn't someone on the administrative end have been notified who could call in another one of the paid guys, like the part-time one they mentioned, to cover and finish his shift?

2) I can fully understand why he had at least a five-day suspension, cannot see why they are rescinding and back-paying him for that just to avoid the expenses of a full law suit trial.

3) He left them short-handed without telling anyone else but his co-worker, and unless they did not have any calls to cover in that time period and lucked out, cannot see any justification for his thinking that was okay because "that's how it was done in the past".

1) Many small combo depts. that do not have a career chief or admin operate this way. A common complaint to the IAFF is total lack of admin policies & procedures. I have seen a number of these depts. that routinely will not replace career members, even for scheduled time off.

2) Because labor laws are pretty clear, if they do not have a written policy, then management is wrong and they are going to lose the case. better to drop it before paying the lawyers to lose it.

3) Because that's how they do it. In other words that's this depts. policy. Stupid policy yes, but their are lots of stupid policies out there.

We tried going through the benevolent they denied it with the excuse of " not every member will or can use the gym. In order for the benevolent to buy a gym it has to benefit EVERY member and every member has to be able to use the gym. This is the problem that you run knto when you have people in charge that have been in the fd for a decade or more ans have been in a fore or have not been in a rig besides for a parade in years

If this was a valid reason (as opposed to an excuse) for the benevolent to not pay, then they must look at everything they do and if it does not include EVERY member then they should not fund it. How many annual dinners do they fund? Does every single member go to these dinners?