16fire5

So if a department only has one command vehicle the chief should drive it 20 miles each way to work when they won't respond? I disagree. Leave it for who ever will be command. Plenty of places are forced to share the vehicle because that's what's economically feasable. Too much sense of entitlement for some.

This is something we do on a regular basis, but I have a different perspective being in a large city. We still have running cards & for M/A abide by them. On Tuesday, for example, the City of Newton (adjacent to Boston to the west), transmitted a 3rd Alarm for a structure fire. Engine 51 & District Chief 11 responded directly to the fire while Ladder 11 covered in their city. While this incident was ongoing, a 2nd Alarm was transmitted for a second (unrelated) structure fire in another part of the city. Ladder 11 responded to the fire from their cover assignment as the First Due truck & District 11 responded again. At this time, Newton requested an additional Engine & Truck from us (Engine 3/Ladder 26) for station coverage because all they had was out of town/Mutual Aid companies operating at the 2nd Alarm. So even though it wasn't on the card, they Special Called us. Same thing goes for incidents in the city. There are certain companies that due to their location always have to be covered. For example, whenever Ladder 25 in West Roxbury goes to training or is out of service for any reason, their house MUST be covered by another truck from the city. When we (Ladder 14) are out though, we generally are not backfilled. Protocol in Boston is that each District should have at a minimum 2 Engines & 1 Truck in each District (Typically each District has 3/2) and if we fall below 2/1, for whatever reason, companies must be relocated to cover in that District. Typically out of town companies do NOT respond to fires in the city unless one occurs while they are covering at a city firehouse. Mutual Aid into the city, with a few exceptions, doesn't begin until we've transmitted at least a 5th Alarm (Or equillivant) in our city

Our mechanics are really looking forward to the KME's. I think they all bought brand new cars in preparation for the delivery.

it should be noted that Engine 16 and Ladder 7 still do a mass and small ceremony each year. They truly don't forget and are a class act.

You are correct the terrazo floor provided an insulating effect. Additionally the seat of the fire was in the basement that extended under the rear of the store from the building around the corner and was not accessible from 23rd St. so the members were having great difficulty accessing the fire which allowed it to burn unchecked and ultimatly bring the beams to failure.

You are correct the terrazo floor provided an insulating effect. Additionally the seat of the fire was in the basement that extended under the rear of the store from the building around the corner and was not accessible from 23rd St. so the members were having great difficulty accessing the fire which allowed it to burn unchecked and ultimatly bring the beams to failure.

Also make sure you're not donning your facepiece too early. Don't donn the facepiece on the rig because you are going to clip the regulator in later. If you practice you can be quck at putting everything on at the entrance to the IDLH. While moving in it's normal to have to clean the outside of the facepiece with your gloved hand. If you have the TIC you will have to do the screen and the lense.

The crop of instructors teaching at the fire academy right now is as good as it has ever been. Many of us went to proby school trained by instructors who were on forced details freshly out of FLSTP. They definatly did a good job but now you have senior firefighters and officers from great companies with great leadership from the chief of training on down. While we heard plenty of stories how the last class was not going so well the ones who graduated were very competent and well trained.

No doubt and as gamewell45 correctly pointed out, those personalities are on both sides.
However, like many things in life, how you conduct yourself can often have a big influence on how others view and treat you. If you are squared away as a volunteer firefighter and/or fire department, then the vast majority of career firefighters will not have an issue. Now, if you act like a clown, don't know how to do the job or won't do the job, act more like a social club than a fire department, then they're will likely be some animosity - especially if you start playing the "we're all the same" card.
I work in a small career department in a small urban city surrounded by a good dozen volunteer fire departments who's districts directly border the city and few more close by. We pretty much have no choice but to use the volunteers if we need assistance with a fire. One is pretty squared away and we tend to call them first. A few more are ok and we use them when needed. A few more are pretty much posers and we've had issues with them when we've worked with them.
We maintain a pretty good relationship with most of the departments around us, but when you show up at our fire and your engine company gives us the "you want us to go.....in there and do....what?" look, we aren't going to view you favorably and you won't be invited back.
We don't get invited to many out of town calls for whatever reason, but when the neighbors do extend the invitation, we expect to work along side of you and not in place of you. We also expect that your IC (the fire chief) will not be drunk and require our duty chief and another mutual aid chief to assume control of the incident before somebody gets needlessly hurt or killed! When this is the case, we aren't going to view you favorably.
And for the record, I spent 9 years as a volunteer before getting hired 11 years ago.

UL researched the subject and has both a report and online learning module on the subject specifically for firefighters.
http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/industries/buildingmaterials/fire/fireservice/pvsystems/

UL researched the subject and has both a report and online learning module on the subject specifically for firefighters.
http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/industries/buildingmaterials/fire/fireservice/pvsystems/

It's probably this exact reason the suburban Washington DC counties have evolved to the system they now use. Still plenty of volunteer opportunity there but a systems that ensures response to reported fires.

It's probably this exact reason the suburban Washington DC counties have evolved to the system they now use. Still plenty of volunteer opportunity there but a systems that ensures response to reported fires.

Its $100K for the bus
Its $224k (back in 2008) for the Star of Life and other decals required

The things our government wastes time (and money) regulating...

while that sounds very noble, we all need to pay our bills. As was told to me more that once by a 20 yr vet from DFD, who has been forced down in rank twice, "I have been to all the fires I need to see, when will somebody show me some money for what we do " They haven't had a raise in about 10 yrs and have taken a 10% pay cut along the way. They are in a real bad place right now, and it isn't like you can just go anywhere to start over. Not a lot of FD hiring right now. I see it coming to a city, town, village near you very soon.
2 yrs ago they came to NY, got demoted, Last year got demoted again, this year maybe loose their pension. I think they may stop coming to ny.

Greenville is rural and it could be argued that most comparable departments don't have a truck or even tower for that matter. I would question their ability to staff the tower for structural responses after the required engine and tanker. One poster alludes to the waiting for a truck when trapped in a window but an auto response truck might actually the fastest way to get a staffed truck on scene. Receiving a truck auto aid to all reported fires would not necessarily be abuse of the system especially if it was part of a reciprocal agreement. Most of the country readily accepts the concepts of auto-aid, mutual aid, boundary drop, and closest resource to better serve their customers and ensure the safety of their members. While I agree that consolidation is usually a worthwhile consideration many times starting small can be the catalyst and be the best immediate practical measure to address the issue.

http://youtu.be/U8XFhXrVxTQ

Greenville is rural and it could be argued that most comparable departments don't have a truck or even tower for that matter. I would question their ability to staff the tower for structural responses after the required engine and tanker. One poster alludes to the waiting for a truck when trapped in a window but an auto response truck might actually the fastest way to get a staffed truck on scene. Receiving a truck auto aid to all reported fires would not necessarily be abuse of the system especially if it was part of a reciprocal agreement. Most of the country readily accepts the concepts of auto-aid, mutual aid, boundary drop, and closest resource to better serve their customers and ensure the safety of their members. While I agree that consolidation is usually a worthwhile consideration many times starting small can be the catalyst and be the best immediate practical measure to address the issue.

Greenville is rural and it could be argued that most comparable departments don't have a truck or even tower for that matter. I would question their ability to staff the tower for structural responses after the required engine and tanker. One poster alludes to the waiting for a truck when trapped in a window but an auto response truck might actually the fastest way to get a staffed truck on scene. Receiving a truck auto aid to all reported fires would not necessarily be abuse of the system especially if it was part of a reciprocal agreement. Most of the country readily accepts the concepts of auto-aid, mutual aid, boundary drop, and closest resource to better serve their customers and ensure the safety of their members. While I agree that consolidation is usually a worthwhile consideration many times starting small can be the catalyst and be the best immediate practical measure to address the issue.

I agree, but if Greenville were to put a truck on automatic response for structure related calls, they would be used maybe a couple of times a year.
Just for clarification for everyone, were are talking about Greenville in Orange County, about 10 minutes outside of Port Jervis. A very rural district that would see a significant decrease in calls if they didn't cover a part of Route 84

John,
First off, great topic Chief!
Let me start by saying how well run and trained your FAST is. I always felt comfortable and confident having your team at an incident. Hell, I remember the Bannon Ave job. I was searching the top floor when I saw you through the window lol. You were throwing ladders and clearing windows as means of egress. You guys were always pro active and professional.
I took FF Safety & Survival because I was selfish. What I mean is that we are our own first line of defense. Knowing the basics and knowing how to save your own a$$ may mean going home safe after the job.
In Buchanan, we did not operate a FAST. But you know what, I took the FAST course because I always strived to be a better FF. It was important to me to know how to help a brother or sister FF out of a bad situation.
I whole heartedly agree that EVERY FF should be FAST trained. It definitely should not be a specialized skill. However, it should also not be the 18 y/o fresh out of FF1 who's coming to a downed members rescue. That is just my personal opinion.
I attended the Joey DiBernardo memorial seminar on Long Island this weekend. First, it was an outstanding seminar with some of the most respected men in the business as speakers. I can not wait to attend next year.
John Salka (who most of you should know of) touched on his "get out alive" program. He spoke of the importance of FAST/RIT, but reiterated the importance of being a well trained FF, capable of getting yourself out of trouble.
My current FD, Vails Gate, does have our own FAST. Last year, we hosted a FAST training exercise at our training building. All FAS teams in our Battalion (4) were in attendance. We went over packaging skills, FF through the floor removal, the Denver Drill, moving members down a ladder and moving downed members up and down stairs. All members were split into different teams being made up of members of the different FDs.
It was a great day of training and was nice to work with the other teams.
So Chief, I applaud you for always having the mindset to better your members and their training skills. I think it would be a great idea for you to get together with the other FAST's that you work with (or don't) and train with them. Perhaps reach out to the other teams, set a date and book the FTC. It's always nice to hone in your skills, but also nice to see how other teams are operating and how they do things.
Best of luck to you.

FDNY
Ladder 59
2013 Ferrara Ultra
100'
#H-5071

I have commented on this before but a major down side to the hanging tag system is that it's so hard to see the names quickly. Take for instance the bear claw mentioned-you basicly need to pick up each tag to see the name.
Here's a system that seems to work very well in a volunteer department.
Passport on the rig with riding positions. Passport is in the back so members place their name tag on the passport and hand it up front to the boss. Officer places their's on the officer spot. Once on scene you hand it off to a chief on scene or leave it on the seat. Anyone not going inside has their nametags upside down. This way in the event an emergency roll call is needed you look at the passports and note the names right side up. Small boards with velcro hold passports for 1/2 alarm incidents where with a grease pencil you can note location and assignment. Large boards for larger incident. Also you can have extra passports aka phantom passports for splitting crews and the event people report to the scene. You can have blank passports for your mutual aid to track. Simply record the PAR number of personnel entering. While many were skeptical of this system when introduced it worked very well.

I have really never seen the benifit of the hanging tag system. What I want as an IC a simple way to rapidly determine who's in the building and the basics of where they are.
The above is combined with portable radios and SCBAs (Pak Tracker equipped) that are position specific.
All this needs to be combined with competent ICs with diciplined fireground crews. Staying apprised of the locations and tasks being performed is also necessary.
One thing that I have heard recently is some departments have crews announce their entrance to the building with PAR number. I think this bears consideration.
The things that will make this sucessful is strong leadership and using it everyday. If you don't use this on automatic alarms and other everyday runs you will not do it when you need to.
If you think that knowing who's inside, basically where they are, and what they're doing is too much to ask then you have no business sending your members inside.

I have commented on this before but a major down side to the hanging tag system is that it's so hard to see the names quickly. Take for instance the bear claw mentioned-you basicly need to pick up each tag to see the name.
Here's a system that seems to work very well in a volunteer department.
Passport on the rig with riding positions. Passport is in the back so members place their name tag on the passport and hand it up front to the boss. Officer places their's on the officer spot. Once on scene you hand it off to a chief on scene or leave it on the seat. Anyone not going inside has their nametags upside down. This way in the event an emergency roll call is needed you look at the passports and note the names right side up. Small boards with velcro hold passports for 1/2 alarm incidents where with a grease pencil you can note location and assignment. Large boards for larger incident. Also you can have extra passports aka phantom passports for splitting crews and the event people report to the scene. You can have blank passports for your mutual aid to track. Simply record the PAR number of personnel entering. While many were skeptical of this system when introduced it worked very well.

I have really never seen the benifit of the hanging tag system. What I want as an IC a simple way to rapidly determine who's in the building and the basics of where they are.
The above is combined with portable radios and SCBAs (Pak Tracker equipped) that are position specific.
All this needs to be combined with competent ICs with diciplined fireground crews. Staying apprised of the locations and tasks being performed is also necessary.
One thing that I have heard recently is some departments have crews announce their entrance to the building with PAR number. I think this bears consideration.
The things that will make this sucessful is strong leadership and using it everyday. If you don't use this on automatic alarms and other everyday runs you will not do it when you need to.
If you think that knowing who's inside, basically where they are, and what they're doing is too much to ask then you have no business sending your members inside.