dashield

I want to preface this post with the fact that I have been in the fire service for 17 years both Vollie and Career so please don't interpret this as Vollie bashing... I just think the volunteer chief officers have to be a little more conscious about where they bring their District Vehicle.
Yesterday while shopping at the Woodbury Commons with the family I stumbled upon a Chief's vehicle from Jerico, NY. The first thing I thought of was "typical Long Island again", but then I tried to give this guy the benefit of the doubt and say he was probably coming back from Montour Falls (even though no classes ended yesterday).
Whatever the reason was that brought him 90 minutes outside his district....it does nothing for the public perception of the "Extravagant Long Island Fire Departments" to have your vehicle sitting in the Woodbury Commons parking lot.

I want to preface this post with the fact that I have been in the fire service for 17 years both Vollie and Career so please don't interpret this as Vollie bashing... I just think the volunteer chief officers have to be a little more conscious about where they bring their District Vehicle.
Yesterday while shopping at the Woodbury Commons with the family I stumbled upon a Chief's vehicle from Jerico, NY. The first thing I thought of was "typical Long Island again", but then I tried to give this guy the benefit of the doubt and say he was probably coming back from Montour Falls (even though no classes ended yesterday).
Whatever the reason was that brought him 90 minutes outside his district....it does nothing for the public perception of the "Extravagant Long Island Fire Departments" to have your vehicle sitting in the Woodbury Commons parking lot.

I want to preface this post with the fact that I have been in the fire service for 17 years both Vollie and Career so please don't interpret this as Vollie bashing... I just think the volunteer chief officers have to be a little more conscious about where they bring their District Vehicle.
Yesterday while shopping at the Woodbury Commons with the family I stumbled upon a Chief's vehicle from Jerico, NY. The first thing I thought of was "typical Long Island again", but then I tried to give this guy the benefit of the doubt and say he was probably coming back from Montour Falls (even though no classes ended yesterday).
Whatever the reason was that brought him 90 minutes outside his district....it does nothing for the public perception of the "Extravagant Long Island Fire Departments" to have your vehicle sitting in the Woodbury Commons parking lot.

While in general it would be great to utilize a multi-million dollar CAD system to it's full ability, typically it's only as good as the information entered into it. It's hard to compare to a large city or county systems responses, as when you start talking about assistance from outside FD's you have varying levels of training, staffing and equipment, though all call an Engine Co. an Engine Co. In my area this is the most significant reason our CAD system is under utilized. Updates are too infrequent, many local VFD's, staffing is inconsistent and proper equipment "typing" or minimum equipment lists are non-existent; all hamper a system of standardized responses.
One could build a decent system is the FD's involved agreed to give up some local control for the greater good, but sadly this is far from the reality of the situation. We all want to be part of a bigger better system as long is we don't have to be the one's to change! At least you have numerous people in the Westchester area that understand the issue and are trying despite numerous obstacles.

Funny that your brought that up, I have recently been thinking about the same thing that happens in Orange County.
1. Dept A is operating at a BS call, quite often they only have one apparatus on scene operating (because that's all they could staff). Dept A calls for Dept B to standby at Dept A's firehouse. Dept. B then calls Dept. C to standby at Dept B's firehouse, it becomes an endless cycle until they finally get to a dept that can actually staff more then one crew.
2. Dept A (who only does 150 calls a year) calls for not one but two standby companies while they are operating at an incident..... The taxpayers are better off.... Lets by quite honest, if you do 150 runs a year what is the probability that you will have a second call, and then if it does happen why not just dispatch a mutual aid dept then....
3. Dept A, B, and C are all operating at a big old barn burner..... each dept then calls for there own standby companies. Why not just have one standby company cover all three depts?
Just a few examples of problems that develop when everyone has there own kingdoms!

Funny that your brought that up, I have recently been thinking about the same thing that happens in Orange County.
1. Dept A is operating at a BS call, quite often they only have one apparatus on scene operating (because that's all they could staff). Dept A calls for Dept B to standby at Dept A's firehouse. Dept. B then calls Dept. C to standby at Dept B's firehouse, it becomes an endless cycle until they finally get to a dept that can actually staff more then one crew.
2. Dept A (who only does 150 calls a year) calls for not one but two standby companies while they are operating at an incident..... The taxpayers are better off.... Lets by quite honest, if you do 150 runs a year what is the probability that you will have a second call, and then if it does happen why not just dispatch a mutual aid dept then....
3. Dept A, B, and C are all operating at a big old barn burner..... each dept then calls for there own standby companies. Why not just have one standby company cover all three depts?
Just a few examples of problems that develop when everyone has there own kingdoms!

Funny that your brought that up, I have recently been thinking about the same thing that happens in Orange County.
1. Dept A is operating at a BS call, quite often they only have one apparatus on scene operating (because that's all they could staff). Dept A calls for Dept B to standby at Dept A's firehouse. Dept. B then calls Dept. C to standby at Dept B's firehouse, it becomes an endless cycle until they finally get to a dept that can actually staff more then one crew.
2. Dept A (who only does 150 calls a year) calls for not one but two standby companies while they are operating at an incident..... The taxpayers are better off.... Lets by quite honest, if you do 150 runs a year what is the probability that you will have a second call, and then if it does happen why not just dispatch a mutual aid dept then....
3. Dept A, B, and C are all operating at a big old barn burner..... each dept then calls for there own standby companies. Why not just have one standby company cover all three depts?
Just a few examples of problems that develop when everyone has there own kingdoms!

Funny that your brought that up, I have recently been thinking about the same thing that happens in Orange County.
1. Dept A is operating at a BS call, quite often they only have one apparatus on scene operating (because that's all they could staff). Dept A calls for Dept B to standby at Dept A's firehouse. Dept. B then calls Dept. C to standby at Dept B's firehouse, it becomes an endless cycle until they finally get to a dept that can actually staff more then one crew.
2. Dept A (who only does 150 calls a year) calls for not one but two standby companies while they are operating at an incident..... The taxpayers are better off.... Lets by quite honest, if you do 150 runs a year what is the probability that you will have a second call, and then if it does happen why not just dispatch a mutual aid dept then....
3. Dept A, B, and C are all operating at a big old barn burner..... each dept then calls for there own standby companies. Why not just have one standby company cover all three depts?
Just a few examples of problems that develop when everyone has there own kingdoms!

Funny that your brought that up, I have recently been thinking about the same thing that happens in Orange County.
1. Dept A is operating at a BS call, quite often they only have one apparatus on scene operating (because that's all they could staff). Dept A calls for Dept B to standby at Dept A's firehouse. Dept. B then calls Dept. C to standby at Dept B's firehouse, it becomes an endless cycle until they finally get to a dept that can actually staff more then one crew.
2. Dept A (who only does 150 calls a year) calls for not one but two standby companies while they are operating at an incident..... The taxpayers are better off.... Lets by quite honest, if you do 150 runs a year what is the probability that you will have a second call, and then if it does happen why not just dispatch a mutual aid dept then....
3. Dept A, B, and C are all operating at a big old barn burner..... each dept then calls for there own standby companies. Why not just have one standby company cover all three depts?
Just a few examples of problems that develop when everyone has there own kingdoms!

You have to operate professionally to be considered professional. I hardly consider all the sloppy EMT's and paramedics I see professional and it doesn't matter whether they collect a paycheck or not.

http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130919/NEWS/130919703/-1/NEWS

I fear Brotherhood has lost out to technology. The ability to have one's personal life literally at ones fingertips 24/7/365 ensures that is the priority 24/7/365. The camaraderie , Brotherhood and sense of family I found as a proby is lost since gone, taken one small step at a time, though in pretty short order.
When I started at my career position we had two computers used for entering basic NFIRs reports and typing official letters. We arrived at work at least a half an hour before the shift to ensure the off going guys didn't get stuck on a BS run that would mess up their plans. We all gathered at the dayroom table to discuss any pertinent FD issues that arose in the past 48 hours, and then typically drifted to anything of interest we'd done, heard or seen in the same time period. We knew each other on a personal level. We were allowed one phone call home in the evening not to exceed 10 minutes (we had but 1 business line). You'd call home say good night and unless it was an emergency, hope that you didn't get a call from outside. We all gathered at every "scheduled" break and ate meals together. Strangely 15-18 years ago we rarely shared a meal as one, we merely ate our own things at the same table at the same time. That changed almost as a reaction to the loss of time together a few ears after I started. Nonetheless we all, had nothing better to do than keep each other entertained. We constantly played practical jokes on each other, frequently gather to smoke on the bay floor (designated area at that time, when we not as health conscious). We'd practically beg our Chief to regale us with stories of jobs and his war experiences (best story teller ever!). We'd watch the same TV at night and for the morning news. We were tight. Every shift was tight and due to stricter staffing rules we had to swap more often so we had reason to be tight with other guys too. When we came to work, we left everything else at home, very little from home affected us unless it was a personal issue that had an affect on a guys' focus (impending divorce, financial crisis, death in the family) the day to day stuff had to wait until the next day, period.
Of the past 15 years we first started to get better computers, which at first only allowed games, so we started to lose a few people to video games once in a while, but for the most part it was unnoticeable. Then came the internet, and that's when we started to lose guys for hours, sometimes whole tours we'd only share time on calls or community work. Maybe here's where we started to do the communal evening meal that at least brought all shift members to the same table for an hour or so. Then we seemed to find the end of the internet and people grew bored with it. It became a nice tool, but less exciting unless looking for something specific.
Somewhere along the way, cellphones became smaller and mainstream and suddenly guys were hiding on the floor at night arguing with the wife or other people. Our home lives came to the station. Suddenly, all the day to day issues, were confronting guys while they were at work. We struggled to keep up with the changing technology with rules that tried to at least ensure actual work was unaffected, but alas, that didn't work, changes were far too rapid. Requests for emergency time off for this and that increased, personnel were often scattered to the far ends of the building quietly dealing with their home/life issues instead of watching TV, sharing stories or otherwise congregating together.
And today all the technologies collide to nearly obliterate anyone's sense that they can come to work to get away from everything else. Facebook has inserted people back into to each other lives, but on a far less personal level. People know things about each other but given they can read this and get the info indirectly they have ample opportunity to express their true views without the person being able to explain or defend themselves. Now we see far more snickering and back stabbing amongst "brothers". Many Facebook users see the guys/girls spouses opinions and actions and suddenly have their opinion on that, something that used to be somewhat off limits. Smartphones ensure all of this takes place wherever/whenever the member is. Our crews still meet at the dayroom table in the morning and share information, as soon as FD interests are gone, it generally devolves to "did you see what, so and so posted?" or "if I was married to that .....I'd ....". Most mornings there's 8-12 people sitting around, but only 2 or 3 are talking and the rest have their faces buried in the smartphones. Firefighters are far less likely to come in early for another, instead coming in at literally the last minute, still chatting away to whomever was more important at 0658 in the morning.
We still eat the evening meal together but typically it's pretty quiet as one or two people text their way through dinner. We had to make a rule that talking on personal phones was done outside the dayroom otherwise you could watch TV or remotely converse. Yep, a rule that addresses common courtesy. Still in the evening those who have gravitated back to the dayroom to watch TV, now do so with an Ipad on their lap and constantly are convinced the rest of us need to see whatever stupid thing was sent to them or posted on a Facebook page, totally oblivious that others might actually not care.
Sorry, Moose, this wasn't a positive story of Brotherhood. Maybe I'm "old" or just don't find myself interesting enough to Tweet or be on Facebook, and while I think we the Brothers and Sisters allowed this to happen, it's technology that killed Brotherhood. While this is what I see from the career side, I imagine that on the volunteer/call side, the technology has become a time drain that hurts volunteerism, as people spend far more time using the web media to stay up on all things that used to be none of their business. The hardest part is that I now realize how much I miss the more personal interaction with those I work with and the job is becoming much more of a job. I used to want to go to work, now I'm ambivalent, I'd likely take far more time off if other duties wouldn't just pile up on my desk. I find myself looking for projects to reinvigorate my attitude, and this is a common feeling among many of members with 10-12 year or more on the job.

I think Firemoose827 it's because of the World we now live in where like many have said you can't offend anyone anymore and have to constantly be "politically correct" for fear of being sued and labeled a racist. Tradition in the F/S is practically dead which is sad. Like one member posted in the other forum also, everyone now receives a trophy and as a result can not accept failure and to be told their no good at something and if they are will head right to the powers to be to complain. This all trickles down to the moral on the job where nobody wants to participate in anything anymore. Another big reason why I see the Brotherhood disappearing is because of the quality of individuals Depts. are hiring. Depts. now seem to be more concerned with "Quantity" then "Quality" for fear again of being labeled racist/biased towards certain individuals and groups and have lowered their "STANDARDS" to attract these individuals. As a result those members who are 100% dedicated towards their Profession get discouraged having to work with these incompetent individuals who for the most part are just there for a paycheck and don't want to associate with them either on or off the Job, especially when these individuals don't get reprimanded for their unacceptable actions/mistakes on and off the Job but almost seem to be rewarded and left alone. After awhile it gets discouraging to those who really do care and try and do the" right" thing and as a result everyone is out for themselves and the "Brotherhood" is now in the toilet. JMO

http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130821/NEWS/130829975

This is a failure that the volunteer fire service has come to accept. If a rig responding to an alarm gets into an accident, this leads to a delay in getting this particular rig to the fire. A failure of sorts. The Chauffeur probably will have his driving privileges taken away for some amount of time. maybe re training will take place. However a failure, WHICH someone will take the responsibility for and a corrective measure will take place to try and make this not happen again.
While stretching a line there is a substantial delay in getting the line charged. The hydrant man did a butcher job hitting the hydrant, screwed it all up, leading to a big delay. A failure and a fire ground embarrassment witnessed by many. The person involved after getting their balls broke to no end will go back to training and learning what they did wrong and hopefully it will never happen again. Again someone is held accountable for the failure.
Your dispatcher types in the wrong address into the CAD system for whatever reason. Mistakes happen they are human to. This leads to a 6 minute delay before the correct address can be figured out. Luckily it's nothing serious. A failure none the less. The Chiefs will complain to whomever they need to and a letter will be written. It will be put in the dispatchers file and some re training will take place. End result someone is held responsible and the mistake-failure is expected not to repeat itself anytime soon.
Someone is held accountable in all these situations.
BUT the failure to cover alarms for some reason-Chiefs have become immune to. If you are a Chief of a department with this problem you are the one who is held accountable for these failures. Just as you would be quick to find out who was responsible for the above scenarios occurring you must also look at what is responsible for the failure to cover your alarms. And the solutions lay on your shoulders as well. Are you a department that accepts failure?

We have 58 Fire depts. in Westchester and many have trouble getting enough trained firefighters on scene. Many have more equipment then they can ever manage to get out the door and this situation puts the public & firefighters in danger.
I suspect nothing will change until a multi fatality fire AND a lawsuit against the fire dist /municipality and/or the chief(s).
Its really sad that depts are not willing to solve this problem.

I find it hard to believe the booster vs.1 3/4 argument is still alive and well. Try a timed race between a booster line and a 1 3/......AAAH, never mind. If you haven't figured it out by now, I probably can't convince you.

Great, just what Orange County needs..... another department. We should be thinking about how to provide more streamline and consistent responses instead of forming another kingdom. Lets address the issues at hand (which is witnessed everyday lately) such as responding for calls of service in a timely manner with a crew (not 1 or 2 guys). Why do departments (usually the same departments everyday) continually not crew up for a call, yet no plans seem to ever be put in place to correct the problem? Last week there was a department who could not even get out for a structure fire, mutual aid departments who were sent (only after the first department could not crew) had to respond and extinguish the fire (good thing fire only doubles in size every 30-60 seconds).
This is the last thing Orange County needs, we should be working together towards consolidation and not duplicating resources.

Great, just what Orange County needs..... another department. We should be thinking about how to provide more streamline and consistent responses instead of forming another kingdom. Lets address the issues at hand (which is witnessed everyday lately) such as responding for calls of service in a timely manner with a crew (not 1 or 2 guys). Why do departments (usually the same departments everyday) continually not crew up for a call, yet no plans seem to ever be put in place to correct the problem? Last week there was a department who could not even get out for a structure fire, mutual aid departments who were sent (only after the first department could not crew) had to respond and extinguish the fire (good thing fire only doubles in size every 30-60 seconds).
This is the last thing Orange County needs, we should be working together towards consolidation and not duplicating resources.

Great, just what Orange County needs..... another department. We should be thinking about how to provide more streamline and consistent responses instead of forming another kingdom. Lets address the issues at hand (which is witnessed everyday lately) such as responding for calls of service in a timely manner with a crew (not 1 or 2 guys). Why do departments (usually the same departments everyday) continually not crew up for a call, yet no plans seem to ever be put in place to correct the problem? Last week there was a department who could not even get out for a structure fire, mutual aid departments who were sent (only after the first department could not crew) had to respond and extinguish the fire (good thing fire only doubles in size every 30-60 seconds).
This is the last thing Orange County needs, we should be working together towards consolidation and not duplicating resources.

Great, just what Orange County needs..... another department. We should be thinking about how to provide more streamline and consistent responses instead of forming another kingdom. Lets address the issues at hand (which is witnessed everyday lately) such as responding for calls of service in a timely manner with a crew (not 1 or 2 guys). Why do departments (usually the same departments everyday) continually not crew up for a call, yet no plans seem to ever be put in place to correct the problem? Last week there was a department who could not even get out for a structure fire, mutual aid departments who were sent (only after the first department could not crew) had to respond and extinguish the fire (good thing fire only doubles in size every 30-60 seconds).
This is the last thing Orange County needs, we should be working together towards consolidation and not duplicating resources.

Date: 04/27/13
Time: 1412hrs
Incident Type: Working Fire
District: Vails Gate
Location: 2300 Vails Gate Heights Dr
Units: VGFD Car 2 (IC), E481, E478, T482, T484, R480
Frequency: Base-5/OC911
Weather Conditions: Clear
Reporters: BFD1054
Description: Kitchen Fire in an OMD
1412hrs-Base-5 alerting Vails Gate; respond to South Gate Village, building 2300, apartment 2305 for the reported structure fire.
E481 called on responding within minutes of dispatch. Base-5 advised that PD was requesting the FD to expedite due to reports of a child trapped.
Car-2 arrived on scene, established Command and advised of smoke showing from an apartment on the #2 floor. Car-2 then advised that all occupants were out and accounted for.
E481 was directed to grab a hydrant and lay in. It's crew led off with a 1 3/4" line to the #2 floor and made entry. Members quickly located the fire in the kitchen area and made a quick knock-down.
T482's crew arrived and started opening up and checking for extension which was (-).
Companies then began to take up and return to service.

Let me tell ya a few things about them bastard dispatchers.....I know a little bit.
First off - it sucks. But it is OK too...
It is a GOOD living, but obviously not as "fun" or "glorious" as our police, fire, and even EMS counterparts.
The BIGGEST thing I have noticied in over 15 years "in the chair" is that EVERYONE in the field thinks they could do it better, or things could be done different. Everyone in a uniform has IDEALS, but dispatchers have PROTOCOLS. For the most part the voice ont he radio doesnt make those protocol, but we are bound to adhere to them. So if you get angry or frustrated - direct that to the policy makers, not the person on the other end of the radio.
We get it from every direction...and speaking from MY job, literally everyone is our superioir...I am the #5 on my job senority wise..I been around, yet even the newest, junior cop or fireman tells me what to do...but that is part of MY job...other agencies are different..they have a more structured, Dispatch Command..we are under the authority of the Police Watch Commander and FD Shift Commander...yet there is still a small army of Sergeants, Liuetenant, Captains, Chiefs, and Deputy Chiefs that can change it all with a simple command...
EVERY shift is run different - under the direction of the Watch Commander..so if you are like me, and work OT on different shifts..you had BETTER do i tTHAT bosses way..
You guys get to SEE your jurasdiction every day - you know it intimately..hell I been working in our City for 12 years and I dont know ALOT of the streets,..Yes, I know what police post they are on, who to send, and even what fire truck is first due - but I have been "lost" on the southside of our city as recently as last week..we dont get out to see it enough, if at all. Sure maps, and CAD are nice - but there is no subsitute for actual street time. Some agencies make "ride time" a part of training - and thats awesome.
"They dont give us enough info.." Yep...true. But we give you all of what we can get from our callers - which in an urban setting like mine - sometimes is just an address...if I had a dollar for everytime a caller said - "just send the M F'ing cops/Ambulance" I could retire to the Keys with George..LOL. And if we give alot of info - we are met with "headquarters - get off the air.." There is NO happy median it seems sometimes.
Dont get me wrong - I am NOT defending all dispatchers - I have worked with some real turds...but thankfully, for the most part - we weed them out. Not all...but alot..this job is not for everyone.
I will openly admit that this is NOT what I pictured myself doing...well, it is not what I wanted to do..anyone who knows me knows I should be on a firetruck for 40 hours a week, but I do not regret it one bit. I have a good life and make good money...I can support my family well, we own a house, 2 cars, and a dog...the American Dream, right? I am heads and shoulders above where my parents where at my age. I stay cool in the summer, warm in the winter, park in a secure parking agarge, and can surf Bravo for 8 hours a day. For that I am very thankful.
One of the things I cherish the most about my job is RESPECT. The guys on the other side of the radio - be it police or fire, appreciate me and the job I do..I take care of "my guys"..they know when the crap hits the fan in a foot pursuit that I am right there with them, and help is on the way. I know how the FD operates and usually have what the Captain requests done or ready to be done. I do my job well, because lives of cops and firemen depend on it. I have actually been written up for two commendations by Fire Lieutenants after tough, hectic, SCARY jobs for my actions in assisting them...both times they were denied because, "he is just a dispatcher...". Who cares....it's the RESPECT from those guys that mean more to me than ANY peice of paper signed by the Mayor.
So yeah, dispatching sucks..but it pays the bills. And I know that there are a few guys out there that know we really DO make a difference. So cut us some slack...or take the test and get "in the chair."

It is a firetruck not a sports car... Who cares what it looks like if it gets the job done safely?

Date: 10-31-2012
Time: 01:49
Location: 124 Bullet Hole Rd, Mahopac NY
Frequency: 46.38 Putnam Dispatch
Units Operating: Mahopac Falls: 19-1-1, 1-2 (IC), 1-3, 2-1(source engine), 4-1, 4-2, 4-3, 6-1, 7-2; Mahopac: 18-1-2, 18-4-1 (originally sent to relocate to MFVD Stat 1 but then requested into the scene); Putnam Valley: 24-1-3, 6-1 (FAST); Putnam County Fire Investigation Team; Putnam County Car 4; NYSEG; CPD
*Somers: Eng 180 on the relocate to MFVFD Stat 1
Weather Conditions: Partly Cloudy
Description Of Incident: Working Structure Fire- 2 story wood frame structure; 19-1-2 arriving on scene stating heavy fire in the rear of the structure, start automatic mutual aid (Closest FAST & 18fd Eng relocate to MFVFD). Originally Mohegan FAST requested, unable to assemble a crew, Putnam Valley requested 2nd. 18-4-1 signed enroute and was requested into scene by IC, then requested 2nd engine to backfill- Somers E-180 handled the relocate.
*While on the relocate- E-180 was dispatched for a CO Alarm, neg sympthoms @ 10 Middle Branch Rd. E-180 on scene and had confirmed CO readings, 30-50 ppm in the home; Requesting EMS to eval family with possible sympthoms- Mahopac 18-7-1 & 35-M-3 on scene & secured RMAs from family. Ventilation completed and all units clear & E-180 returned to MFVFD Stat 1 for remainder of standby
All units clear the fire at 04:47
Reporters: Brian19fd