JFLYNN

Empress is a union shop (International Association Of EMT's and Paramedics Local 20). I'm suprised that Yonkers FD, having a strong union themselves, would be trashing Empress and threatening the jobs and livelihoods of over 200 people with a company that has served the City Of Yonkers for over 20 years, and is able to provide a large amount of ambulances to the system anytime. While the firefighters recieve very good pay, benefits including a great pension, it's unexplainable why their Union would go after another union where the members of that union don't have nearly the same pay and benefits of YFD members. And while the EMT's and Paramedics are running their butts off covering calls, with down time spent in an ambulance on post, the firefighters have stations they can go back to after they dump patient care on EMS, which then does the meat and potatoes of the work. I didn't think that trashing another union was how they played the game. I guess desperate times call for desperate measures.

I guess if EMS is 80% of your call volume, if the City paid for more ambulances and flycars dedicated to Yonkers in lieu of an FD first response, that would really bring down their numbers, and that would affect staffing and funding. And they must forget how Empress is a vendor of the City of Yonkers, and part of that is delivering what the customer (City Of Yonkers) wants. Must also forget that, even though they claim "For Profit" ambulance, Empress provides EMS to the City Of Yonkers for FREE, and often sacrifices their transport side of the business so they can provide excellent service to the city. Empress also provides, at mostly their own cost, a full service EMS Special Operations unit, with numerous personel extensively trained and very well equipped to support the fire department in Haz-Mat situations. Empress also provides EMD pre-arrival instructions to callers, which has been proven to be lifesaving. Not to mention how clinically progressive they are, such as being the first EMS service around to use RSI. Also, Empress EMS maintains their headquarters in central Yonkers, pays taxes to the City Of Yonkers, and employs numerous city residents. Their dedication to the City is evident.

I find it disgusting that the website implies that due to the EMS provider, that they are "saving lives everyday". Empress has some of the strongest and most experienced EMS personel out there, and you don't see stories about the good they do, because the fire department usually wants to take all the credit, as evidenced on their new website. The EMS employees are the ones saving lives everyday, as EMS is their full time job. Firefighting is YFD's full time job, and the motives of them trashing EMS is sketchy.

I guess true colors are showing.

Oh, another quick point in response to this post that I just realized has not been made yet....Local 628 nor the UFOA have never "gone after" or "attacked" Empress' union. In fact, it might be perceived to be the other way around. You see, approx. 22 years ago, when YFD began regularly responding to First Responder work, which was not currently being done by anyone except the occasional response of YFD to medical emergencies, or the YPD ESU responing to accidents and injuries, the YFD Administration, and both unions, advocated for more ambulances on the road, documented poor Empress response times and inadequate equipment, all of which bettered the working conditions of Empress members and created additional jobs for Empress employees. YFD also requested and had put in the contract that Empress medics would provide training to our members, thus creating work for them. Now, fast forward 22 years later and IT SEEMS that Empress' union is supporting replacing YFD as first responders with Paramedics in fly cars, thus "going after" local 628 and UFOA work, not to mentionthat this is a notion that anyone involved in the system as a professional should realize will compromise patient care for many reasons. Over the years the idea of YFD taking over ambulance service had been floated by various political leaders, and neither 628 nor UFOA had ever pursued this work.

So, It's hard to try to make the point that the YFD unions are somehow hurting Empress employees of their union or have ever done so.

In any event, just a reminder to all in this great city who respond to any type of emergency- we all have much more in common than we hold as differences- there are no enemies amongst us. Patient care must come first and foremost. So, please everyone on all sides of this contentious and emotional issue- although we may have strong disagreements in certain areas, let's agree to treat one another with respect at all times (especially in the field), and to be honest in our dealings with each other. All of us have a tough and at times, dangerous job that is worthwile and deserving of respect. Let's not demean ourselves or our professions by engaging in pettiness and mean spirited behavior. We are all much better than that.

And of course, please qtip.....

John - I re-read this whole thread, including my own comments, and I want to clarify - I was not bashing the YFD or it's men..although reading my posts it would seem otherwise. Not my intention.

I have always had the greatest respect and ADMIRATION for the YFD, as many know..I have seen some of the ballsiest firefighting, and most compansionate caregiving from your members duiring my tenure at Empress..I would love to one day go back, but as you posted, so many of us move on...But the YFD is nothing but professional. The first responder program has saved countless lives, no doubt, and I hope it does not go away...the residents of Yonkers are blessed to have it. I always enjoyed calls i would do where Roone, or Eddie R., or so many others were on scene, because I LEARNED from them.

I have an in-law who is retired from your job, and I love BS'ing with him about the 80's and 90's in Yonkers, even if I cant understand his hispanic accent when we have a few cold ones and he really gets going..LOL

Thanks for taking the time and energy to post the information you did - I know there are things you would rather be doing, but it shows your pride in your men, and the JOB.

Merry Christmas to you and the entire YFD...stay safe.

No worries Brother, I qtiped. Merry Christmas and saty safe!

PART 4

YFD has not only CFR-D's, but a very large number of EMT's, as well as several Paramedics and RN's.

I'm done for tonight..when I have time I will post the conclusion to this series of sloppy, but hopefully informative posts, entitled-

THE BOTTOM LINE- Short term and long term consequences of eliminating the YFD First Responder Program, and why, if it ever is eliminated, it will inevitably be reinstituted in 9-24 months.

In the meantime my friends, please...qtip.....

Part 3.

Disclaimer- my apologies for spelling and grammatical errors in previous and future posts- there is a lot to cover here and I don't have time or emergy to dot the i's and cross the t's- I hope I am making some sense to most of you nonetheless.

Here we go...I agree with the poster who stated that Empress is "clinically progressive" and who espoused the value of Empress' EMD pre-arrival instructions. However, I should point out that the "Haz-Mat Special Ops support to YFD" provided by Empress is done with equipment purchased with federal grant money (UASI and MMRS), and training conducted by YFD. The nature of this support is generally to provide a secondary technical decon only.

One point that was made by a brother YFD member, above, should be emphasized. Empress has so very many dedicated and professional members. However, the majority of these individuals do not spend the majority of their working lives in EMS, and particularly not with Empress, although some do. Many Empress employees move on to Fire or Police Department careers, elsewhere in emergency medicine, or on to other careers altogether. The Empress work force is nowhere as stable as YFD. This is just reality and I believe is pertinent. I won't give my opinion regarding the effect of a stable vs. a more transient workforce because it is just that, my opinion, and we all know what those are worth. However, these facts should be provided so that all of the stakeholders 9particularly city residents) might be able to deternine relevance.

PART 4

YFD has not only CFR-D's, but a very large number of EMT's, as well as several Paramedics and RN's.

Part 2- Now, to some of the misinformation that has been posted on this site in regard to the YFD First Responder Program.

Misinformation response # 1. This work constitutes a large majority of our responses, or our overall work. This is not accurate. First Responder runs account for approximately 55 % of our incidents. However, each of these incidents requires the response of only one Engine Company, and the Engine Company is generally back in service in 20 minutes or less, sometimes longer of course. Obviously to anyone familiar with the Fire Service, the typical incident any Fire Department responds to (the other approximately 45% ) involves many more apparatus and personnel for significantly longer periods of time. A First Responder run with utilizing one apparatue and 4 Firefighters is one incident. A 3 Alarm Fire utilizing 14 apparatus, other vehicles, and a total of 63 or so Firefighters is also one incident, kapeesh??

Misinformation response # 1a. Therefore, although the rumored elimination of the First Responder Program may (not my area of expertise) allow certain contractual minimum personnel levels to no longer be adhered to, it will not obviate the necessity to have adequate Fire Companies and personnel available for Firefighting and other emergencies. Sure, no FD is as busy as twenty years ago with fire duty, and certainly not as busy as 30 or 40 years ago. Nonetheless, fires do still occur, and adequate personnel and equipment is necessary for this. There is a very valid reason that similar sized city FD's all over the U.S., and in fact the industrialized world conduct First Responder Programs- the very nature of a Fire Department requires Firefighters and their equipment to be readily available for guess what, fires! However, this ready availability of individuals who are trained to handle emergencies and have apparatus to quickly respond allows city sized Fire Departments to have personnel available to supplement the primary EMS response with First Response capability. This supplementation is able to be done by Firefighters who, for the most part, will need to be there, available, anyway! The Firefighters do not get tied up with transport (generally), transfer to the medical facility, PCR's, cleaning the ambulance, etc. So, they are able to go right back into service as soon as the patient has been placed in the ambulance, or in many cases, sooner, right?

Misinformation response # 2. Oh, here's an easy one- we have 4 Firefighters per apparatus (3 Firefighters and a Company Officer), not 5. That is the manning we have had per apparatus for over 30 years. It's hard to understand how any individual who would purport to understand the situation in Yonkersstate could state that this is all about reducing manning from 5 to 4 per apparatus, or words to that effect.

Misinformation response # 3. The majority of these runs are nuisance runs. Well, that depends on what you consider a nusiance run. The fact is that if we know in advance the situation is not a true medical emergency, then neither the Fire Department nor the emergency ambulance service shoud respond, right? The problem, which has been studied at the highest levels for many years, is how to deduce from the initial phone call what is and what isn't a "nuisance call"..I don't know how to quantify how many of these runs that YFD (and Empress) responds to are not true medical emergencies, but admittedly the number is significant, as it is in EMS systems almost everywhere. No one wants to respond on any type of alarm where we are not needed, and as soon as someone can find out how to deduce true emergency from nuisance run every time, please let us know!

END OF PART 2 TO BE CONTINUED

Part 3.

Disclaimer- my apologies for spelling and grammatical errors in previous and future posts- there is a lot to cover here and I don't have time or emergy to dot the i's and cross the t's- I hope I am making some sense to most of you nonetheless.

Here we go...I agree with the poster who stated that Empress is "clinically progressive" and who espoused the value of Empress' EMD pre-arrival instructions. However, I should point out that the "Haz-Mat Special Ops support to YFD" provided by Empress is done with equipment purchased with federal grant money (UASI and MMRS), and training conducted by YFD. The nature of this support is generally to provide a secondary technical decon only.

One point that was made by a brother YFD member, above, should be emphasized. Empress has so very many dedicated and professional members. However, the majority of these individuals do not spend the majority of their working lives in EMS, and particularly not with Empress, although some do. Many Empress employees move on to Fire or Police Department careers, elsewhere in emergency medicine, or on to other careers altogether. The Empress work force is nowhere as stable as YFD. This is just reality and I believe is pertinent. I won't give my opinion regarding the effect of a stable vs. a more transient workforce because it is just that, my opinion, and we all know what those are worth. However, these facts should be provided so that all of the stakeholders (particularly city residents) might be able to deternine relevance.

Great post my Brother, whoever you are, lol- please let me know your identity if you don't mind. Thanks to you and Capt. Smith for the informative posts and to all of our members for not discrediting ourselves or our department by engaging in name calling and nasty, unprofessional language. Of course I would never expect our guys to sink to the level that some others on this thread have sunk to, but thanks nonetheless...

I will add a bit from my perspective- please bear with me as I am exhausted and pressed for time do I will bang this out quickly and it may be a bit rough around the edges....

I am nearing the end of my career, and frankly, I don't really think I will be personally affected if in fact the YFD First Responder Program did end, although I sincerely doubt that will happen for long, if at all, and I will explain why below. In fact, I certainly have more to loose by posting on this topic rather than remaining silent, as this will likely piss some people off...oh well...

I have been a member of YFD for almost 25 years, since before we had a First Responder Program. As a very junior Firefighter I was a member of the committee which some at the time said "ruined the job" by convincing first, Local 628, and later, with the backing of L-628, helped to convince the City Fathers that this program was a good idea. The union did not come up with the idea of this program or push for it at first. You see, years ago, YFD only responded on medical rums when there was a confirmed cardiac arrest and Empress Ambulance either was not available at all, or did not have enough personnel available to perform good CPR. We responded on those fairly often. We had only very basic first aid training and CPR. There were numerous times when we performed CPR for very long periods of time before the arrival of the ambulance. Sometimes a Paramedic fly car would arrive and we would wait, and wait....sometimes not even the fly car. The Empress employees were almost always professional, dedicated, and we had a great working relationship. It sure wasn't their fault that the number of ambulances available didn't meet the need at that moment. One day, at Engine 306 where I worked, a family ran in with a baby in respiratory distress who had actually turned blue. A senior man /EMT opened the airway and started Oxygen. The baby wound up being ok. The family was irate that they had called over 20 minutes before and we had not responded (we checked the times and this was accurate). We explained that FD did not get sent to these type of calls unless it was a cardiac arrest and Empress requested us. It was very upsetting to me/us to know that the people we were there to protect could be in a life threatening situation that we were able to assist with, yet we would not be called.

I really never wanted to do emergency medical work back then- I thought of myself as a Firefighter and my idea of a Firefighter was different than what it is today. Nonetheless I agreed with some other Firefighters who advocated for us to go on these runs more regularly as was being done in other parts of the country, and seemingly very successfully. It took a couple of years, but eventually the program began. At the time, approximately 22 years ago, Empress was charging the City of Yonkers a flat 1 Million per year for their services,in addition to the ability to recoup from billing. Almost as soon as we began the First Responder Program that ccontract was re-negotiated and Empress then waived this 1 Million dollar annual fee. Also, there was no minimum number of ambulances that were required to be dedicated to City of Yonkers- almost as soon as YFD began going on these runs,it was noticed how very bad Empress' response times were- not due to any fault of the overworked Empress EMT's and Medics, but again, because of a lack of appropriate resources. So, very shortly because of YFD complaints, Empress agreed to keep a minimum number of ALS and BLS units in the city and this was put into their contract, and / or I also think that it was at this time that a certain maximum average response time for Empress BLS and ALS units was placed into Empress' contract which improved things dramatically. I guess if prior to YFD involvement no one was really paying attention to response times, why bother having a lot of ambulances available- the number of billable patients was not dependent on response time- they would all wait as long as it took for the ambulance so why incur the expense if no one was complaining, right?

Admittedly, I haven't gone on a First Responder run for almost 7 years now, but I did respond on very many over the years. Almost always, I found Empress employees to be fantastic and I thought we had a great working relationship, even if there was a bit of uncomfortability at times- egos and jealousy and just basic human misunderstanding on both sides creeps in of course, however in my opinion we were mostly all regular working people who enjoyed the adrenaline rush and especially, helping people. During the approximately 15 years that I went on First Responder runs with YFD there were very many times that we arrived significantly before Empress ambulance. The large majority of time we arrived at least a couple of minutes before Empress, and occasionally, especially when I worked on the East side of Yonkers, more than 10 minutes prior to Empress. As Captain Smith was, I was involved in 2 successful childbirths (the Moms did basically all of the work of course but they were sure glad that we were there nonetheless) before Empress arrived (not the same ones), and I and my crew initiated CPR COUNTLESS TIMES before Empress' arrival. END OF PART 1 TO BE CONTINUED

Part 2- Now, to some of the misinformation that has been posted on this site in regard to the YFD First Responder Program.

Misinformation response # 1. This work constitutes a large majority of our responses, or our overall work. This is not accurate. First Responder runs account for approximately 55 % of our incidents. However, each of these incidents requires the response of only one Engine Company, and the Engine Company is generally back in service in 20 minutes or less, sometimes longer of course. Obviously to anyone familiar with the Fire Service, the typical incident any Fire Department responds to (the other approximately 45% ) involves many more apparatus and personnel for significantly longer periods of time. A First Responder run with utilizing one apparatue and 4 Firefighters for 15 minutes is one incident. A 3 Alarm Fire utilizing 14 apparatus, other vehicles, and a total of 63 or so Firefighters for six or seven hours is also one incident, kapeesh?? Furthermore, the "workload" of a Fire Department is not only responses, but also the necessary training, inspections, cleaning, maintenance of vehicles, equipment, etc.

Misinformation response # 1a. Therefore, although the rumored elimination of the First Responder Program may (not my area of expertise) allow certain contractual minimum personnel levels to no longer be adhered to, it will not obviate the necessity to have adequate Fire Companies and personnel available for Firefighting and other emergencies. Sure, no FD is as busy as twenty years ago with fire duty, and certainly not as busy as 30 or 40 years ago. Nonetheless, fires do still occur, and adequate personnel and equipment is necessary for this. There is a very valid reason that similar sized city FD's all over the U.S., and in fact the industrialized world conduct First Responder Programs- the very nature of a Fire Department requires Firefighters and their equipment to be readily available for guess what, fires! However, this ready availability of individuals who are trained to handle emergencies and have apparatus to quickly respond allows city sized Fire Departments to have personnel available to supplement the primary EMS response with First Response capability. This supplementation is able to be done by Firefighters who, for the most part, will need to be there, available, anyway! The Firefighters do not get tied up with transport (generally), transfer to the medical facility, PCR's, cleaning the ambulance, etc. So, they are able to go right back into service as soon as the patient has been placed in the ambulance, or in many cases, sooner, right?

Misinformation response # 2. Oh, here's an easy one- we have 4 Firefighters per apparatus (3 Firefighters and a Company Officer), not 5. That is the manning we have had per apparatus for over 30 years. It's hard to understand how any individual who would purport to understand the situation in Yonkers could state that this is all about reducing manning from 5 to 4 per apparatus, or words to that effect.

Misinformation response # 3. The majority of these runs are nuisance runs. Well, that depends on what you consider a nusiance run. The fact is that if we know in advance the situation is not a true medical emergency, then neither the Fire Department nor the emergency ambulance service shoud respond, right? The problem, which has been studied at the highest levels for many years, is how to deduce from the initial phone call what is and what isn't a "nuisance call"..I don't know how to quantify how many of these runs that YFD (and Empress) responds to are not true medical emergencies, but admittedly the number is significant, as it is in EMS systems almost everywhere. No one wants to respond on any type of alarm where we are not needed, and as soon as someone can find out how to deduce true emergency from nuisance run every time, please let us know!

END OF PART 2 TO BE CONTINUED

State the facts, The city wants to close two companies. Making a Department that is already spread thin, even thinner. The city knows very well Empress could never duplicate our service. Not because of the Empress employees, but simply because our services are dedicated to the residents of Yonkers. We are always within the city limits, unlike Empress, who will do what they can to make a buck. So there is no "claim" that Empress is for profit, it's the truth. You did fail to mention this "free" service you will be providing will cost the taxpayers millions of dollars. Also, "your mostly at your own cost" Haz-mat equipment was provided to you by the taxpayer, through the fire department. As stated you'll be receiving A MEDIC, who will not be able to transport and who will not be able to provide CPR efficiently. As you emphaszed on, our very good pay, benefits and great pension ensure that our staffing leveles are well maintained. Unlike Empress, where there is constantly new faces, there is consistancy in our department. Our manning not only Gaurantees when you dial 9-1-1 you will have a quick response, but also that if additional aide is needed, it's there. What will Empress do when they are short of staff? Many times our members have been asked to drive the bus or ride in the back because the Empress crew could not handle the situation with only two people. So when you say "we dump the patient care" on you to do the "meat and potatoes", I have to disagree. Because we're doing the "meat and potatoes" before Empress is even there. Again, this is not an attack on the crews, it merely states the truth. In fact, their Local should be concerned with the greater risks their members are going to be taking. Empress would have to fly through intersections, drive at dangerous speeds just to make it there in 8-10 minutes. Not to mention other risks like responding to projects where the YFD would send two units, or lifting heavy patients. It's only a matter of time before someone gets hurt. I also find it ironic that you state that our full time job is fighting fires, not EMS. Yet you also state that 80% of our calls are EMS related, contradicting yourself, no? 628 is in no way attacking the Union, so please do not come on here instigating that our union is attacking the union of the Empress employees. Your post seems like more of an advertisement, scripted for you by the city, to turn the private sector unions against public sector unions. The facts are the city is breaking a contractual agreement with 628 and making an agreement with Empress without putting it out for bid. Back room deals which are all too common in Yonkers, and result in the taxpayer paying more for less. So again, please stop claiming that we are trashing another union. But if this what you must do, I guess desperate times do call for desperate measures.

Great post my Brother, whoever you are, lol- please let me know your identity if you don't mind. Thanks to you and Capt. Smith for the informative posts and to all of our members for not discrediting ourselves or our department by engaging in name calling and nasty, unprofessional language. Of course I would never expect our guys to sink to the level that some others on this thread have sunk to, but thanks nonetheless...

I will add a bit from my perspective- please bear with me as I am exhausted and pressed for time do I will bang this out quickly and it may be a bit rough around the edges....

I am nearing the end of my career, and frankly, I don't really think I will be personally affected if in fact the YFD First Responder Program did end, although I sincerely doubt that will happen for long, if at all, and I will explain why below. In fact, I certainly have more to lose by posting on this topic rather than remaining silent as this will likely piss some people off...oh well...

I have been a member of YFD for almost 25 years, since before we had a First Responder Program. As a very junior Firefighter I was a member of the committee which some at the time said "ruined the job" by convincing first, Local 628, and later, with the backing of L-628, helped to convince the City Fathers that this program was a good idea. The union did not come up with the idea of this program or push for it at first. You see, years ago, YFD only responded on medical runs when there was a confirmed cardiac arrest and Empress Ambulance either was not available at all, or did not have enough personnel available to perform good CPR. We responded on those fairly often. We had only very basic first aid training and CPR. There were numerous times when we performed CPR for very long periods of time before the arrival of the ambulance. Sometimes a Paramedic fly car would arrive and we would wait, and wait....sometimes not even the fly car. The Empress employees were almost always professional, dedicated, and we had a great working relationship. It sure wasn't their fault that the number of ambulances available didn't meet the need at that moment. One day, at Engine 306 where I worked, a family ran in with a baby in respiratory distress who had actually turned blue. A senior man /EMT opened the airway and started Oxygen. The baby wound up being ok. The family was irate that they had called over 20 minutes before and we had not responded (we checked the times and this was accurate). We explained that FD did not get sent to these type of calls unless it was a cardiac arrest and Empress requested us. It was very upsetting to me/us to know that people who we were sworn to protect, particularly children, could be having a life threatening medical emergency that we would be able to assist with, yet we would not be called.

I really never wanted to do emergency medical work back then- I thought of myself as a Firefighter and my idea of a Firefighter was different than what it is today. Nonetheless, because of situations such as I have described above, I agreed with some other Firefighters who advocated for us to go on these runs more regularly as was being done in other parts of the country, and seemingly very successfully. It took a couple of years, but eventually the program began. At the time, approximately 22 years ago, it is my understanding that Empress was charging the City of Yonkers a flat 1 Million per year for their services plus the ability to recoup from billing. Almost as soon as we began the First Responder Program that ccontract was re-negotiated and Empress then waived this 1 Million dollar fee. Also, there was no minimum number of ambulances that were required to be dedicated to City of Yonkers- almost as soon as YFD began going on these runs,it was noticed how very bad Empress' response times were- not due to any fault of the overworked Empress EMT's and Medics, but again, because of a lack of appropriate resources. So, very shortly because of YFD complaints, Empress agreed to keep a minimum number of ALS and BLS units in the city and this was put into their contract. I also think that it was at this time that a certain maximum average response time for Empress BLS and ALS units was placed into Empress' contract which improved things dramatically. I guess if prior to YFD involvement no one was really paying attention to ressponse times, why bother having a lot of ambulances available- the number of billable patients was not dependent on response time- they would all wait as long as it took for the ambulance so why incur the expense if no one was complaining, right?

Admittedly, I haven't gone on a First Responder rum for almost 7 years now, but I did respond on very many over the years. Almost always, I found Empress employees to be fantastic and I thought we had a great working relationship, even if there was a bit of uncomfortability at times- egos and jealousy and just basic human misunderstanding on both sides creeps in of course, however in my opinion we were mostly all regular working people who enjoyed the adrenaline rush and especially, helping people. During the approximately 15 years that I went on First Responder runs with YFD there were very many times that we arrived significantly before Empress ambulance. The large majority of time we arrived at least a couple of minutes before Empress, and often, especially when I worked on the East side of Yonkers, more than 10 minutes prior to Empress. As Captain Smith was, I was involved in 2 successful childbirths (the Moms did basically all of the work of course but they were sure glad that we were there nonetheless) before Empress arrived (not the same ones), and I and my crew initiated CPR COUNTLESS TIMES before Empress' arrival. END OF PART 1 TO BE CONTINUED

The picture of 309's on the top right, was that Engine 302 next to it? I believe they moved there in 1980.

The other rig is Ladder 72. My Dad is riding the engine in this pic- Officer seat.

Empress is a union shop (International Association Of EMT's and Paramedics Local 20). I'm suprised that Yonkers FD, having a strong union themselves, would be trashing Empress and threatening the jobs and livelihoods of over 200 people with a company that has served the City Of Yonkers for over 20 years, and is able to provide a large amount of ambulances to the system anytime. While the firefighters recieve very good pay, benefits including a great pension, it's unexplainable why their Union would go after another union where the members of that union don't have nearly the same pay and benefits of YFD members. And while the EMT's and Paramedics are running their butts off covering calls, with down time spent in an ambulance on post, the firefighters have stations they can go back to after they dump patient care on EMS, which then does the meat and potatoes of the work. I didn't think that trashing another union was how they played the game. I guess desperate times call for desperate measures.

I guess if EMS is 80% of your call volume, if the City paid for more ambulances and flycars dedicated to Yonkers in lieu of an FD first response, that would really bring down their numbers, and that would affect staffing and funding. And they must forget how Empress is a vendor of the City of Yonkers, and part of that is delivering what the customer (City Of Yonkers) wants. Must also forget that, even though they claim "For Profit" ambulance, Empress provides EMS to the City Of Yonkers for FREE, and often sacrifices their transport side of the business so they can provide excellent service to the city. Empress also provides, at mostly their own cost, a full service EMS Special Operations unit, with numerous personel extensively trained and very well equipped to support the fire department in Haz-Mat situations. Empress also provides EMD pre-arrival instructions to callers, which has been proven to be lifesaving. Not to mention how clinically progressive they are, such as being the first EMS service around to use RSI. Also, Empress EMS maintains their headquarters in central Yonkers, pays taxes to the City Of Yonkers, and employs numerous city residents. Their dedication to the City is evident.

I find it disgusting that the website implies that due to the EMS provider, that they are "saving lives everyday". Empress has some of the strongest and most experienced EMS personel out there, and you don't see stories about the good they do, because the fire department usually wants to take all the credit, as evidenced on their new website. The EMS employees are the ones saving lives everyday, as EMS is their full time job. Firefighting is YFD's full time job, and the motives of them trashing EMS is sketchy.

I guess true colors are showing.

Hopefully NONE of my brothers on YFD will take the bait and attack the many dedicated and professional members of Empress such as this individual has attacked YFD. This is only one persons opinion. I have always felt that YFD and Empress line members work well together and respect each other. Us fighting each other is harmful to us all as well as to those we serve. 628s website post regarding Empress certainly was not an attack on Empress employees and I believe any reasonable, person would read it that way.

It is 628 s job to represent their members interests and this is what they are doing. They have not attacked Empress employees. Those who would try to spin this as an attack on Empress employees, or another union are doing so for their own reasons.

There are a combination of truths, half-truths and much untruth in this persons post. When I am rested I will respond to each point by point. Please my brothers on YFD as well as Empress lets stick to the facts and not get personal or unprofessional. This is what those who wish us harm are hoping for and expecting .

On October 10th when Larchmont had the fire at the car dealership at 2050 boston post road why would they call Greenville to cover Larchmont HQ and a Pelham engine to the scene when you have departments like VMFD,Harrison FD, which are closer and more familiar with the area... It just doesnt make sense to me to have MA from Greenville and Pelham come all the way to Larchmont.

Who decides which mutual aid department is covering or operating at a certain scene ?

It's apples and oranges...if you asked the waiter in a restaurant, for say, apple pie, and he told you it would take 10 minutes to arrive at the table, but if you would rather, you can order orange soufle, which might arrive in 5 minutes, or perhaps take as long as 30 minutes, depending on the chef's mood, most people would order the apple pie...

I was deployed on Saturday morning (Yonkers spare L-78) at about 0900Hrs with a crew of five firefighters and did not get home until Monday morning at about 0230Hrs. We were first sent to Freeport LI and then sent to Baldwin LI. I had a great crew who was willing to do anything asked to help the people of Long Island. We responded to many calls and our relief crew actually caught a couple of structure fires.

You make me proud Wonderboy! Really.

Yonkers Fire has a ladder company (Spare L-78) with a full crew (Officer and 3 FF) plus a Battalion Chief and Aide in Nassau, I believe in Baldwin. They are returning tomorrow at 0800 after a 72 hour deployment.

YFD Mobile Command has been in Citi Field, with 2 of our SOC members, for the last several days. It is expected to be there for a long time. It is being heavily utilized by various OEM / FEMA, etc.

We also have a Haz-Mat Task Force operating in Suffolk County out of the Islip Airport alongside a career FD Haz-Mat team there.It consists of 2 YFD Battalion Chiefs, and approximately 4 YFD Company Officers, and 15 or so YFD Firefighters, as well as 1 Officer and 3 Firefighters from Hartsdale Fire, and 1 Officer and 6 Firefighters from Greenville Fire. All or most of these members have been trained to the Haz-Mat Tech level, and some to Haz-Mat Specialist level.They finish their 72 hours tomorrow evening I believe. They have been doing a very significant amount of work, the details of which I do not have. Suffice to say that local opinion has been very positive and they have been requested to extend their deployment for at least 72 more hours.

However, in light of the coming Nor-Easter, our exhausted personnel as a result of the Hurricane Sandy mitigation- preparation- response, and recovery efforts in Yonkers, and the recovery work on Long Island, and our very undermanned department (40+ members under authorized strength due to a delayed class hiring), we have declined the request to extend the Haz Mat Task Force deployment. We will see what effect the coming storm has, and if still requested, and able, we will redeploy another Haz Mat Group.

This is a horrible situation for so many, but it is nice to see how readily most First Responders as well civilians give of their time, effort, and money to attempt to ease the suffering and return us all to some sense of normalcy.

Once again, I could not be more proud of my YFD brothers, many of whom suffered damage to their own homes, as well as extended loss of electricity, yet continued to rise to the challenge and performed admirably during the many events of this last week.

Chief, the way we operate is not comparable to anywhere else in the country, you would be better off attending a brotherhood instructors course on forcible entry or roof or ladder ops, that's where the members learn something, sitting in a class is useless for most.

Thanks for your opinion.

Hopefully someone who's been to the excellent symposiums held there cares to weigh in otherwise all i hear is sour grapes. The foundation does so much good for the department and they have nothing to do with the helmets aside from the money being directed that way (so they say funny the check isn't made out to them).

These symposiums are excellent and well worth the money for anyone who is serious about this business. The foundation is apparently scheduling this on the right days of the week, and charging the right price, as it normally sells out. From my understanding, the monies raised go to good causes, so I don't understand why anyone would have an issue with this.

qtip

Rest in Peace and condolences to all of Chucky's friends and family.

I am looking to install two, blue LED lights.

Why?

Honestly I can't answer that

1. I don't know the building

2. What are my resources

3. I don't know the building

4. Well you should get the picture to many Unknown variables.

If it was a similar building in my town and everything that was needed was either there or on the way. I would make aggressive interior attack and search. But once again I can't say that for that building that day I don't know and in reality no one else dose because the is no offer of these needed facts.

Should I have separate drawers for my athletic socks and my dress socks? I can't decide....

Again why is it a mistake what they did? Granted I would have done it different.

Again why is it a mistake what they did? Granted I would have done it different.

Again why is it a mistake what they did? Granted I would have done it different.

I mean this with all sincerity, and it is intended not only for you, but for many others on this site...how many Firefighting TEXTBOOKS (not magazine articles or websites, which have their own value), but TEXTBOOKS on firefighting- how many of them do you own, how many have you read from cover to cover, over and over, with numerous highlights and notes in the margins, maybe thousands of pages of notes taken from these TEXTBOOKS, as well as flash cards made, and accompanying study guides completed?

How many? I would be willing to place a wager...

This is not to discredit you or others or to be mean, but there are so many on here who simply don't know what they don't know.

If you had such strong, yet uneducated opinions, and expressed them in the kitchen of a career Fire Station (particularly any department which has some occasional fire duty), it would very quickly be "explained" to you why it would be best for you to educate yourself and gain some experience before so emphatically disagreeing with your seniors.

It's very hard to learn much when your lips are moving or, in this case, when your fingers are typing.

I like Jflynn's "QTIP"

As the Godfather movie says "It's not personal, It's just business."

JFlynn has another one-word saying...."Crawl" Nobody in that video seemed to have any intention of going into that building and crawling around except for maybe one guy who was packing up at the end.

Lucky for the Europeans that they used up all their wood building ships, There was no wood left to build buildings.

I like Jflynn's "QTIP"

As the Godfather movie says "It's not personal, It's just business."

JFlynn has another one-word saying...."Crawl" Nobody in that video seemed to have any intention of going into that building and crawling around except for maybe one guy who was packing up at the end.

Lucky for the Europeans that they used up all their wood building ships, There was no wood left to build buildings.

Dangit- you beat me to it! Mr. ATV is basically pleading for a "qtip", lol.

I haven't even had time to watch the video yet, but after scrolling through this thread I have a pretty good idea of what I would see (based on credible reports from several fire service experts, lol), so, rather than watch this seemingly amusing video, I think I will instead use the 5 minutes of my life to organize my sock drawer- it will be time more well spent...

I did have some pleasant conversation with several nice London Firefighters at the Tunnel to Towers Race on Sunday...I was nice...I didn't tease them about their motorcycle helmets, nor did I engage in a discussion on tactics, which most likely would have ended badly, lol.

I figured for a department that went through what they did during WW 2, they deserve a pass on questioning their questionable tactics from a wise a** U.S Fire Chief.

The rest of you on here do not, however....

Ive been a member of this site for a long time now. In the past, there have been posts made by Chief Flynn that have gotten under my skin.

However and maybe its because ive grown up a bit, ive come to realize that he has opinions and is certainly entitled to them as is anyone else.

Chief Flynn has worked his way up the ladder of a very busy, pro-active and versatile career fire department. For that, i have nothing but respect for the man, as he has certainly earned it.

Chief Flynn is obviously a very intelligent man who has so much fire service knowledge and experience to share. For that, i have always enjoyed reading his posts as they are well thought out and written.

Maybe Chief Flynn indeed dislikes volunteer firefighters or the volunteer fire service as a whole, but you know what...who cares? Again, he is entitled to his opinions. Personally, i could care less who likes who and who doesn't.

Many of his posts and comments aimed at the volunteer fire service have merit. I guess maybe for some people the truth hurts.

Personally, i enjoy being a volunteer firefighter and helping the community (sorry if that sounds cliche). I have always tried to be the best firefighter i can be by taking as many courses as possible, training as much as possible and treating every day as a learning experience.

People need to worry about themselves and how they can be a better person, firefighter, etc and improve themselves and their agencies.

That said, stay safe and oh yeah, QTIP.

Now lets get back to the original topic at hand please.

Thank you.

I'll take your challenge Chief Flynn.

I do not think you are a friend of the volunteer fire service. Nor do I think you truly believe in the "Brotherhood" that is suppose to exsist between all firefighters in this country and around the world for that matter. I'm sure that when you meet a firefighter and find out he is a volunteer you think of him on a different level.

What makes me think this is true was due to a series of posts you made a few years back.... where you said something to the effect of "volunteer firefighters are not the same as career firefighters, save all the that talk for your wives and girlfreinds who will believe it" Again not exact but something along those lines.

There may be some differences between the 2, but when firefighters respond to a working fire and the crews are stretching lines, throwing ladders making the push with the line to put the fire out WE ARE THE SAME. DOING THE SAME JOB at that point. The meat and potatoes of a firefighters job is the same volunteer or career. You still refused to hear that and made posts against anyone trying to suggest this was the case.

Those posts were filled with an underlying hate and despise for the volunteer fire service.

Maybe you were having a really bad day and those post were an impulsive error in judgement. I really hope so.

How is that you think this is a response to my challenge? My challenge was for the other poster to explain with specificity what he meant by "glass houses".

It is such a shame that again, another poster on this site has, from behind the anonymity of his keyboard, made unsubstantiated allegations using such words as "hate" and "despise"...we have so many serious problems in this world, and everyone on this website, career, volunteer, or other has so much more in common than we do differences. There is, unfortunately, so much real hate, violence and unfairness in this world, and to throw these words around so casually is really a damn shame to me. Why can't we just be big boys and respect differences of opinion without being so thin skinned or making personal attacks? I have used sarcasm on this site at times, and generally this was done in response to ludicrous misinformation on a subject near and dear to my heart, and / or a personal attack on my self or my department. However, in all my years interacting with members of the volunteer Fire and EMS service, both on this site, and in person, I have never been rude, disrespectful, or dishonest. In fact, I have been very supportive of any volunteers who have come to me for help or advice on many occasions. On a related note, when valid criticism of my own department or career departments in general is posted, I never take it personally, or try to make excuses or deny the truth.

However, here in Westchester County we have many serious issues with Fire and EMS services, and the majority of these issues (not all) are from the volunteer side. This is not personal, it is business. Very important, life or death business! Duplication of resources, ridiculous selection, training, promotion and retention standards, lack of transparency, horrible inadequate response standards, etc, etc. Many of these issues could be fairly easily solved, and therefore more death, pain and suffering could be avoided, if egos could be put aside, and valid criticisms could be accepted.

,

Adequate minimum training standards, consolidation and regionalization, transparency in regard to finances, resources, levels of training and competency need to happen. It is a complete failure of leadership and selfish egomaniacs who are more worried about their little fiefdoms than the public good who are standing in the way of this. My hope is that if I and others keep pointing out these serious issues, the many good, intelligent, dedicated and caring individuals in the volunteer sector will force this change down the throats of the entrenched "leaders" who have been holding progress back for so long.

My feelings are shared by so many, both career and volunteer- and just FYI, many of the career Firefighters who volunteers hold in such high regard actually feel exactly the same as I do- however they choose not to go public with their feelings because they want to make money by teaching you, selling you t shirts and other paraphanelia, receiving the many benefits of being volunteer Firefighters themselves, writing books and articles, setting themselves up for certain jobs in retirement, etc., etc., and they are not willing to suffer the personal attacks such as I have on here for expressing my feelings on this issue. It's actually hilarious to hear the criticisms of the volunteer fire service which are made in private by many career Firefighters who most volunteers proclaim to be their good friends and supporters

I realize I am making sense to a lot of you and many of you share my feelings. No matter how hard I try, the haters will always be out there. I accept and expect that. Thanks to all of you who have supported me on these issues. Together, over time, we will acccomplish much positive change in the service of those we are sworn to protect.

Show up to the dock late and you missed the boat, my friend. I'm not bashing the career guys (as a whole), nor would I ever. The moral of my story is "people who live in glass houses". I know our side of things has its issues, and I'm doing my best from the inside to fix them. I take care of my own problems before I say something about someone else's. And if I am on a sinking ship (gotta love the nautical references here), I don't try to drag down others with me. However, I heard about this man in particular within weeks of first joining the service. In my years in, his name continually comes up in stories about his (mis)exploits trying to shut out volunteers. So perhaps I harbor a vendetta. That being said, the media has the right to pound salt. All they do is blow things out of proportion and make changes that much more difficult. And yes, I would bash anyone personally who tries to throw us as a volunteer organization, to the wolves.

PS: "Going out on a limb" is fancy speak for ASSume.

I challenge you to explain with specificity what you mean by "glass houses". It would also display a measure of integrity for you to provide your name, or at least a bit of background as to your fire service experience, and thus your credibilitry, or lack thereof.

]

Show up to the dock late and you missed the boat, my friend. I'm not bashing the career guys (as a whole), nor would I ever. The moral of my story is "people who live in glass houses". I know our side of things has its issues, and I'm doing my best from the inside to fix them. I take care of my own problems before I say something about someone else's. And if I am on a sinking ship (gotta love the nautical references here), I don't try to drag down others with me. However, I heard about this man in particular within weeks of first joining the service. In my years in, his name continually comes up in stories about his (mis)exploits trying to shut out volunteers. So perhaps I harbor a vendetta. That being said, the media has the right to pound salt. All they do is blow things out of proportion and make changes that much more difficult. And yes, I would bash anyone personally who tries to throw us as a volunteer organization, to the wolves.

PS: "Going out on a limb" is fancy speak for ASSume.

Yes, please launch a media attack on the volunteer service. (sarcasm) You, sir, are a known enemy of us volunteers. Don't make like we haven't heard of your exploits trying to get volunteers shut out of the service. Deal with your own problems before you attack us. Got a problem with the way things are done? Volunteer and help us out. I'm not saying we are perfect, but I'll be damned if you think you can spread your volunteer hating rhetoric without opposition.

Have a nice day :-)

To the many fair minded members of the volunteer fire service, please note that my name is clearly indicated on all of my posts, unlike this poster. Also, I would challenge anyone to show any evidence of me being a "known enemy of us volunteers", or of spreading "volunteer hating rhetoric"...these are really serious allegations, words like "hate" f and "enemy" for Pete's sake, should not be thrown around so casually. Members of the fire service, both career and volunteer have sacrificed much, even their own lives. How cowardly and mean spirited it is to make such slanderous statements from behind the anonymity of your keyboard.

I would also ask this poster, if I thought there was any chance of receiving an honest answer, what he means specifically by "Deal with your own problems before you attack us."

I wonder if he's just having a really bad day and this was an impulsive error in judgement, or if he truly is such a mean spirited, character lacking individual?

Then maybe they should develop a plan instead of toning out multiple times before going to mutual aid. How many rigs does SFD have? Call the next due unit if you have other rigs (not mutual aid)

1st - If they keep crying wolf, you need to have a plan to resolve it. just saying screw it is not a plan. Particularly with CO, since it can come and go and sometimes is very hard to find the source.

2nd - The call had a chief onsceen with readings and they still needed M/A to get 1 engine.

>>> Originally came in as an automatic CO Alarm. 2443 signed on and got o/s and reported readings at the door. An engine and the ambulance were requested, 80B2 responded, engine was not successful, Katonah FD was requested M/A 1 engine. Units remained on scene for 1 hour and a 1/2. <<<

Hello Members of the media (I know you read this)....why not do some investigative journalism into the very serious, life threatening issue of fire department and EMS departments in Westchester County vis-a-vis, oftentimes ridiculously long response times, inadequately trained responders, duplication of resources, lack of transparency in regard to finances and frankly many other issues within lots of departments. This is serious stuff!

Disclaimer- , I must very clearly state....this is not an attack on volunteer Firefighters, EMS workers or their departments! There are many dedicated and knowledgeable volunteer members of emergency services in this region. However, the SYSTEM is BROKEN!

Positive change very rarely comes from inside of an organization, but rather through blunt force trauma from the outside. Well media, how about a little blunt force trauma in regard to this issue? Personally, my own department has been going through some blunt force trauma from certain segments of the media lately, and I'm ok with that- there's nothing to hide, no organization is perfect, transparency and acceptance of change are good things....Why are volunteer organizations who equally hold the fate of people's lives and property (and taxes) in their hands getting a pass from the media?

In closing, I will pre-emptively state that I will not be engaging in a back and forth bicker on this topic, and yes, I do anticipate attempts at deflecting from the issue at hand by attacking myself personally as well as my own department. So, please don't take my non-responsiveness as acquiesence, agreement, or defeat. I'm just too busy to bother with responding to all of it. This post is really just for the media- maybe someday someone in the media in this area will wake up and realize how honest reporting in regard to this crisis would save lives, property and dollars. I'm not optimistic though, because I guess it's just easier to attack salaries, benefits, and pensions, and ignore an almost completely broken system right next door.

stay safe and qtip brothers and sisters!

http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2012/08/31/gas-leak-blows-up-home-in-connecticut-killing-anthony-fratino/?icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl10%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D200172

There have been several gas related explosions lately. i would like to take this moment to talk about some basic safety. For you, your families, friends, neighbors,etc.

Keep in mind that propane is heavier than air and will tend to settle in low areas, basements, crawl spaces, along floors, etc.

Natural gas is lighter than air and will collect along ceilings, in attics, etc.

Both will collect in areas with little to no ventilation,

IF YOU SMELL GAS:

Leave the building without turning any lights on or off.

Do not use the phone in the affected structure.

If it is safe to do so, turn of the gas supply at the source For natural gas, the meter. For propane, turn off the tank.

Call 911 AND your gas supplier.

DO NOT attempt to make repairs yourself.

Call a QUALIFIED technician.

I am always amazed at some of the "homeowner" repairs and connections. How they don't blow themselves up is beyond me.

Just because your buddy once helped a plumber put in a sink, doesn't mean he is qualified to connect your water heater. And just because your neighbor is a plumber, does not mean he is qualified to do gas plumbing and repair.

Great post. This is good, basic, practical information. One point I would take issue with and maybe will serve as a conversation starter is your statement that natural gas will "collect" along ceilings, in attics, etc. It has been my understanding and experience that natural gas is only slightly lighter that air and very diffuse. Thus, particularly in a private home, it dissipates quickly and generally doesn't "collect" in high spots.