KRF178

Guess PC isn't trying to hide their motives anymore....

Consider how it'll be interpreted when a chief sits on a witness stand, testifies under oath that his first due aerial or rescue could't respond because it was three towns away at parade or wet down.  Compare that to the testimony of a chief who's same equipment wasn't available because of the "nobler" reasons.  It's a lot better justification to be unavailable because of training or mutual aid rather than squirting water on the neighbors new rescue truck.  "We couldn't get there to extricate that family from their head on collision, because we were waiting for the trophies be announced at the convention parade!"

It's sad the levels that some will stoop to just to protect their ego and ensure that their sacred volunteer contingent is protected...all at the cost of the safety of personnel and the citizens he's sworn to protect. Sad really.

Hey! What's wrong with dinosaurs?

LOL, much love to the dinosaurs!!

I call out parade walkers too, it doesn't phase me. I have no problem with either career or volunteer, at all. The risks are equal for both, I understand that, the bathtub falling through the floor isn't going to discriminate who it falls on, training can't prevent every possible misfortune. The simple fact if the matter is though, that some firefighters don't do much more than drive the rig to a fire. It's a needed position, I understand, they get the apparatus to the scene and operate it, it's ultimately the most important position. Some departments have this covered by a designated chauffeur, the guy chosen to drive for the tour, some sit and wait for a chauffeur to come from home, some have the guy who drives the rig there himself, stretches, operates, and puts the fire out, and some have someone who drives there, operates the rig, and that's it. I don't have any problem with any of these, it doesn't bother me nearly as much as parades do, I don't begrudge anyone of the titles they earn in whatever established academy they attend. Your civil service title can be firefighter, your position in the department can just be that of chauffeur, it happens, we all know it. There are police officers who are just the station janitor, you still call them a police officer, but you know what they do. In a career department the positions are often established at the beginning of every tour, volunteer, whoever wants it and gets there first gets it, combination departments use multiple different systems, some of which, designate the paid member, as the driver, every time. As I mentioned before, that falling bathtub will hit whoever is underneath it, but it will never hit the guy or gal who is never inside.

A driver/chauffeur is a position or assignment on a crew, not a job title..which is what you said about the Career members of TMFD. Not sure if you an axe to grind with them, nor is it any of my business, nor do I care. In most combo departments the career personnel do operate the apparatus, but that's not the limit to their duties. Show up on the scene of a working fire at 11am on Monday at a combo dept, most incidents will have one career FF outside as a MPO, while making a hydrant, monitoring fire conditions, or the laundry list of other jobs that need to be done on the scene. Being done by the MPO, all while he's keeping an eye on his gauges. Yes, I know the MPO is supposed to be glued to the panel, but with insufficient manpower, and the balance of the on shift members working inside, ya gotta do what ya gotta do. The days of "oh the paid guys just drive" have long since passed. But I guess the archaic, dinosaur way of thinking is still around.

Town of Mamroneck, paid drivers

Seriously?

You're not even close, as Healz stated, there is no such title in any Westchester county FD.

The Town of Mamaroneck Professional Firefighters are just like any other firefighting job, they are tested both written and physically, academy trained by PROFESSIONALS, and are titled as a firefighter upon their graduation. The entrance exam isn't classified as a "paid driver" but rather as "firefighter" I urge you to read the job description on the WC gov website and maybe rethink your post/thoughts about this. It's a disrespectful, derogatory term used by people who are more than likely jealous that they never took/could pass the exam, or are threatened by professional firefighters education and knowledge of the career path they chose.

With that being said, respect to those who can see further than their nose, and work alongside the career members of combo depts without any drama, jealousy or anger towards them.

Disclaimer: I am not in any way shape or form affiliated with or represent the interests or opinions of the Town of Mamaroneck Professional FF's

I know I'm kinda stating the obvious here, but why not go to the top? Make contact with the IAFF 1st district in Brooklyn(or at least I think Brooklyn). I mean this isn't the first time that this has happened, and I'm willing to bet that's probably grounds for having their membership revoked. Or at least I'd like to think it should be...that's just spitting in the face of fellow union brothers. While I don't do it, there are some guys who like to volunteer in their home depts...which if they do, that's their business. But if they do it in another local's shop, then it becomes every dues paying IAFF members business.

Looks like the only thing that bought them time was the roofing material, looks like it was the rubber EPDM. I knew it was durable, but wow!

Too bad everyone who was ACTUALLY discrminated against in all the previous lists that the Vulcans have disputed couldn't all get together, and file a class-action lawsuit against the City of New York and the Vulcan Society..

Congrats Chief Rea! Had him as our FF1 instructor in the academy at Montour Falls, awesome guy!

this is ridiculous. i dont understand what the problem is with the volunteer departments in the city. they are ran on their own and the city doesnt help them.they do a great job and all the city does is pick on these guys they get the job done as well as the paid guys do and if they weren't trained properly they wouldve been out of service a long time ago its a shame to see these small volunteer departments go. the surrounding comunity loves each and every one of these departments. and atleast they probly have a better and quicker response time than the fdny does. so my question is y pick on the vollies. i guess the paid guys are thinking that we are taking away there jobs.

The problem is that the City of New York already has fire protection in the form of FDNY. These volunteer fire companys are nothing but freelancers...what do we call the guy on the fire scene who doesn't listen to any orders, ignores accountability, and does what he wants(besides ahole), yeah that's right, a FREELANCER. The same applies here, this company is basically buffing jobs off of a scanner(their not dispatched by FDNY), they don't follow FDNY SOPs/SOGs, they may have their own. I'd like to see what the response would be if I bought my own firetruck and started responding undispatched to jobs in Mamaroneck...I'm sure I'd turn a few heads.

On the training aspect, FDNY has their academy/training set up the way that they want their personnel trained. I'm going to guarantee that the AVFD doesn't attend the FDNY academy. What happens if one of these volunteer members gets injured in the line of duty? I bet that they would go after the City for it. This opens up a huge liability to NYC with organzations like this freelancing around the city. How about the unprofessionalism that is displayed when these guys show up and a dispute takes place?

Don't always take the "Paid guys are just causing trouble" approach. Look at things from the other side a little bit, and try and see that doing the right thing isn't always doing the right thing.

Shoulda called the helicopter! Oh wait.....

I literally LOL'd at that! Don't get him started on the Medivac lol

Your blanket statement is kinda bold...that's what happens when those who are in career anything don't know what its like to volunteer in an agency where covering calls is hard to do with limited man power. I do as many calls as I can in my VAC and bust my rear to do the best that i can. If people like you have a problem with that too bad! If you have an issue with calls not being covered in your area be part of the solution not the problem...

You seem to be taking this a little too personal. Let me clarify by saying that no one said the Mofire390 didn't do his part, if thats the truth that you go above and beyond, I applaude your efforts. I also feel for you if you are one of the few in your agency that actually do. Was my statement bold, yes, irrational or inaccurate, I don't think so. For your info as well, just because my current affiliation says "Career" doesn't mean I haven't spent time in the volunteer ranks, I spent several years as a volunteer. My feeling has always been that if we didn't have sufficient manpower to carry out our tasks, hire people to do the job. Like I said, there has to be a point where we put public service before our pride and make something happen.

I've got to be honest here, I see all too often in some of these threads about VACs, the whole "well XYZ VAC covered 85% of their calls in 20xx!" To me, and I'm sure to several of my collegues, that is a joke! These agencies are certified and tasked with providing a service to the public, a very important service, EMS. I'm sorry if this ruffles a few feathers in VAC land, but nothing less than 100% coverage(that is of course with the exception of simultanious calls)is acceptable in my opinion. Who are we kidding here? If the system is broken, fix it! Give up the "smoke in mirrors" show, respond to something other than parades, carnival/event standbys, and "hot jobs." You may have the newest shiniest rigs, freshest uniforms, and plenty of portable radios, but until fulfill what your agency is required to do under its C.O.N., your system is broken. Sorry if I'm harsh, but I think its time to put public service before pride!

DISCLAIMER: This isn't referring to Croton EMS, or any other EMS agency at all. Just a blanket statement.

1. That is all pretty ridiculous

2. Does the guy with the Jeep tow around one of those huge generators Con-Ed uses when a small city loses power for a while to run the 500 Q2B's he has?

In my experience, the more lights, the more laws broken. You have got to think you're pretty important to be hauling around all that candlepower! It's probably the same ones that think the agency would crumble if they were ever to leave. Of course this isn't the case with all buffed out mobiles, some may actually use them for traffic details etc. But my question to that is, why should you have to invest all that money in your POV? Shouldn't your agency provide a vehicle for that? Just sayin'

And pumps like a S.O.B!

You are correct rigs today are very complicated. Maybe its our fault, we expected to much. we thought things like the dashboard and engine cover would last more than a few years. We also expected door handles on the cab would actually last more than 1 year. These hi-tech compnents cant be expected to last on a $500,000+ truck.

Sorry Capt. I was more referring to electrical and wiring problems. Thats just straight up garbage if those parts failed so quickly.

No rig is completely perfect. Some are better than others, my department has a few E-Ones and we're pretty happy with them. Remember, a fire apparatus is a pretty intricate vehicle when you think about it. How many thousands of feet of wiring is in just a basic pumper? Not to mention when you get into more complicated systems such as an aerial piece with a huge generator, overrides, a pump, sensors. Theres a lot to go wrong there if you think about it. While I agree some may be better than others, they're all going to have their problems, a relay in the electrical system could go bad, a sensor could get dirty....and with that it could take out 10 other things that are associated with it. That's why sometimes its just best to keep it simple. I mean who really needs a fire apparatus with an LCD, blue-ray player, and a keurig coffee machine in the cab? Some departments spec out these monstrocities and wonder why they have issues.

I stand by my original statement. I am not attempting to get on the job anywhere but i have respect for what you and everyother member of the paid emergency services do. However we are apparching a point in america where public sector employees are no longer having to trade between long term job security or higher salary. Public sector employees are in some, not all, areas are being paid better than thier private sector counterparts with lucrative bonuses such as guaranteed pensions and healthcare for themselves and thier family, albeit with modest contributions. My point is that we have to regain the balance between private and public sector. For the most part public sector unions, with the exception of fire/ems and police, are negotiating for things that are not available or not possible through private sector employeers. The most flagrant example of this is the teachers unions. Tenure is something that no private sector employee has. Is this right? Do we really want a nation where going to work for the government is the most attractive option. I exclude police and fire from this because the private sector has no business in these areas. My original statement was in regards to the Wisconsin events where teachers and other non emergency personel are the most affected.

While I respect your opinion and appreciate that your previous comment wasn't directed at emergency services, I agree with some and disagree with some. While its true that some negotiated items aren't available for the private sector, there are some things in the private sector that aren't available to public employees. You don't see a public employee getting any monetary bonuses, company limo's, or things of that nature. Everything we have, we negotiated for and the unions have fought for. I know a guy employed in the private sector for some aeronautics company, you know what an average bonus is for him? At least $80k! When was the last time a public employee was given a cash bonus(not saying they're entitled to, just making a point). No one is saying to a cop, "hey nice job with that drug bust, here's a check for $50k, good going!" As far as teachers and tenure, that's kinda the only place that they can hold any administration over a barrel. Not for nothing but they are handed a pretty monumental task, educating and in some cases babysitting our youth. I know where I live a good percentage of the kids are complete animals, and anyone that can keep some kind of order in a classroom gets a ton of respect from me. For the most part teachers are responsible for these kids 6-8 hours a day, and not to mention, overcrowding of schools, parents who take no responsibility for their children, and dealing with some of the problems that children take from their home. I know a bunch of teachers, and not only is it stressful for them to maintain order in their classroom, it also takes a toll on them psychologically. Some of these kids that come from the dredges of the earth, parents who are addicts, don't get properly clothed and fed at home, and come to school looking for attention. Do they deserve everything, I'll agree and say no, but I will say that being a teacher isn't all glitz and glamour. They face a different kind of adversity in the schools than we see on the street as emergency service providers. I think I'd rather see a gunshot or stabbing victim rather than have to see a child that is physically or mentally abused at home day in and day out, but that's just me. I wouldn't want to stand in the shoes of an educator.

Hopefully sooner rather than later. Public employee unions should have little to no right of collective bargaining. We need another Reagan type ATC layoff. Because who are these employees bargaining against ? The tax payer.

That's a pretty bold statement to make in a forum like this with probably 75% of the membership being union employees, and for that I admire your fortitude.

Now, what do you do for a living, I see your affiliation is a volunteer firefighter, are you trying to get on the job somewhere? If in fact you are, I'd like to see what your opinion is after a few months on the job and as a member of the IAFF. What is your basis for making a statement like that? Who else can we bargain against, unfortunately the taxpayers are the ones who pay the salary here. I'd like to see the average private sector employed taxpayer do the job of FD, PD, or EMS for a month, actually better than that, six months. With those months surrounding the holiday season. I'd love to see how they react to working thanksgiving, christmas, new years...in the rain, snow, sleet, or the heat of july. How about being up in the middle of the night to respond to an emergency, or worse than that the ones who don't have the luxury of bunk. Guaranteed, the tune would change! The average, misinformed person crys about how much public employees "get", but what they don't see is the sacrifices we make. I understand that may sound a little corny, but it is the truth! Has Joe Taxpayer ever been blasted out of bed to go do CPR on someone that collapsed, responded to a structure fire or serious MVA, gone to a domestic or shooting? The answer is no, and for that they have no appreciation!

n.

Now for those who think we get a huge bag filled with money every two weeks:

In the municipality where I work, a majority of the city employees do not live within the city. Most were born there, grew up and went to school there, and got hired by the city. They realized when it was time to buy a home, with their salary, they couldn't afford to live within the city that they work. So they took their money and moved to a place much more affordable, with cheaper taxes, and a respectable home for a reasonable price. I'm not positive what the median cost of a home is in westchester, but it's considerably less in the northern counties. It's unfortunate that these employees don't make enough to live comfortably in the city they grew up and work in. If there were no right to collective bargaining or union protection, god only knows what would happen, and eventually it would impact service to the taxpayers. People wouldn't want to take the jobs if they didn't have these benefits because that would mean low pay, horrible (if any) health coverage and probably an unhappy and hostile work environment.

Who would respond if mom or dad were having difficulty breathing?

Who would show up when the next door neighbors are making too much noise?

Who would scrape up the dead skunk in front of your house?

So, I guess shame on us who want a salary that is enough to live on, a safe work environment, and a comfortable retirement after protecting the muncipalities who employed us for 20+ years!

Stepping off the soapbox now

I actually had three guys in my academy class in Montour Falls who were sponsored by their respective FD's and paid the fees themselves. All three were volunteers and shortly after graduation one of them got hired by his department, and another just recently got hired by the same dept.

Not if I can help it! Sorry, no use for PTOTSS (Part Time Over Time Stealing Sc*m) Sorry for the rant but this is my carear and I hate having people using it as a "second" job

Not that I'm looking just curious, don't shoot!! Completely understandable though!

Do they still have part timers there?

From the IAFF 589, Newburgh Firefighters Facebook

Thank you to everyone who worked tirelessly on the new contract. Tonight the city council vote 3-2 in favor of the new contract that keeps the 12 firefighters from being layed off. This has been a very hard 18 months for everyone and the support we have received from everyone was truly overwhelming. Once again thank you all for your time and efforts.

Great to hear! Best of luck!

Is Rye FD going to send the new FF to Montour Falls? I would think so, seeing as that's probably the only option. We probably broke records with four of us Westchester boys in the 2010-1 class at the Falls.