BBBMF

Another avenue that would be interesting to explore would be the impact of more regionalized fire services.
My county (in PA) has a lot of small departments covering small districts which results in multiple departments responding to most calls. I looked up some figures a few years ago for comparison and found that PG County Maryland and Fairfax County Virginia both had an average fire station to sq. mileage ratio of around 1 station per 10 square miles. My County was around 1 station per 3 square miles.
Additionally, at the time a nearby group of 3 communities collectively had 7 fire stations and at least 14 large apparatus and 7 support vehicles. My city is slightly larger than that area, but with the same population density. We have 2 stations (down from 4 a couple decades ago), 4 large apparatus and 2 support vehicles. We run around twice as many first due calls as that group and a lot more working fires. Why do they need so much more to do less?
How much money could be saved if we consolidated into fewer stations with less duplication of apparatus? Could that create the call volume and labor pool large enough that each station could be staffed most, if not all of the time? What would be the impact of that on dispatch to on scene response times and incident outcomes compared to what they are now?

They can't even get funding to properly staff the radio room for the workload they have, how are they going to staff the Fieldcom?

While this may have its applications; circumstances dictate procedures. If you have limited manpower on scene or a fully involved basement with limited access this tactic may be a good move. BUT, at the same time, you are writing off any viable victims. These new procedures were written because scientists working in a laboratory think you can no longer push fire (my experience tells me otherwise) with a handline and it's ok to knock a fire from an exterior window to take some energy out of the equation. Does it work, in some circumstances yes, but if you cannot access the seat of the fire, you're severely delaying water and now you'd better have another team ready to advance a handline inside after you transition to an interior attack. And not the one that's stretched and charged in the backyard, from the outside. Like an earlier post said, we won't hone our skills on interior attack and search if we are fighting fires from outside. When it's time to go inside, everyone will get lost.

While this may have its applications; circumstances dictate procedures. If you have limited manpower on scene or a fully involved basement with limited access this tactic may be a good move. BUT, at the same time, you are writing off any viable victims. These new procedures were written because scientists working in a laboratory think you can no longer push fire (my experience tells me otherwise) with a handline and it's ok to knock a fire from an exterior window to take some energy out of the equation. Does it work, in some circumstances yes, but if you cannot access the seat of the fire, you're severely delaying water and now you'd better have another team ready to advance a handline inside after you transition to an interior attack. And not the one that's stretched and charged in the backyard, from the outside. Like an earlier post said, we won't hone our skills on interior attack and search if we are fighting fires from outside. When it's time to go inside, everyone will get lost.

While this may have its applications; circumstances dictate procedures. If you have limited manpower on scene or a fully involved basement with limited access this tactic may be a good move. BUT, at the same time, you are writing off any viable victims. These new procedures were written because scientists working in a laboratory think you can no longer push fire (my experience tells me otherwise) with a handline and it's ok to knock a fire from an exterior window to take some energy out of the equation. Does it work, in some circumstances yes, but if you cannot access the seat of the fire, you're severely delaying water and now you'd better have another team ready to advance a handline inside after you transition to an interior attack. And not the one that's stretched and charged in the backyard, from the outside. Like an earlier post said, we won't hone our skills on interior attack and search if we are fighting fires from outside. When it's time to go inside, everyone will get lost.

FDNY does not regularly do this. The FDNY prides itself on aggressive interior attack.
As far as the discussion goes, making conditions more tenable sounds great except, 75% of fire victims die from smoke inhalation. Flowing water through a window to make conditions more "tenable" for firefighters to enter won't save victims. Getting them out of the building will. Since when does a firefighter put the rescue of a civilian at the bottom of the list? The training of firefighters is about developing skills. Firefighters are taught to put out fires from the interior advancing through a structure a certain way. These are just the basics and the basics take time and is not something that is taught in 5 minutes. Firefighters who have battled fires from the inside learn from experience and repetition how to do it better and more effective which allows firefighters to have the skill levels to extinguish fires from inside. When a firefighter shoots a stream through a window all of the skill development is over. There is no skill level to that and only lowers our skills and is a fire service failure. Another example of fire service failure is that we still have firefighters who cannot operate a 2.5 inch line due to poor technique and education.
"A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY
http://www.firehouse.com/blog/10631380/transitional-attack-is-whack

I am not saying they should rely solely on Millwood for fire protection. I am stating the fact that resources are not being properly used. There isn't a single reason to build an additional substation when there is a firehouse up the block. God forbid someone misses pulling into a job first due and has to give it up to another rig from another department.

I am not saying they should rely solely on Millwood for fire protection. I am stating the fact that resources are not being properly used. There isn't a single reason to build an additional substation when there is a firehouse up the block. God forbid someone misses pulling into a job first due and has to give it up to another rig from another department.

I am not saying they should rely solely on Millwood for fire protection. I am stating the fact that resources are not being properly used. There isn't a single reason to build an additional substation when there is a firehouse up the block. God forbid someone misses pulling into a job first due and has to give it up to another rig from another department.

No they can't. I don't think anyone is suggesting that they should. What has been suggested for years is a dual response by YHFD and MFC for the part of the YHFD south of the reservoir. The taxpayers should not suffer the unnecessary burden of purchasing this land, funding the construction of the building, maintenance, utilities and what eventually will lead to another apparatus purchase when there is a station from another fire district a mere foot stroll down the road. Subsequently, when a significant event occurs south of the reservoir, the aforementioned MFC substation will, based on history, be dispatched as a mutual aide company anyway. The fire district lines were drawn poorly many moons ago and frankly it makes zero sense for YHFD to have any response area south of the reservoir. The taxpayers of Yorktown Heights have rejected the construction of this station multiple times over the course of many years. The commissioners of the YHFD have, in plain sight, found a way to circumvent the will of the taxpayers by over funding other budgetary line items and then allocating those monies to the building fund as opposed to yielding to multiple rejections to referendum the taxpayers have already weighed in on. Finally, while I have no proof of it, logic would dictate that most citizens living south of the reservoir who are interested in being volunteer firefighters are most likely members of the MFC not YHFD. Therefor it would also make sense that the members of YHFD that are required to staff a full response crew for the apparatus housed in the new station will most likely respond from north of the reservoir where the lion-share of YHFD members reside. As a result, the benefit to those protected by the YHFD south of the reservoir is limited by the fact that the response of members is still coming from from north of the reservoir as it has for decades.
While it is probably easy to think that I'm ranting because I'm a former MFC member, but I have no skin in the game as I live in Florida now, and frankly even if I still lived in the district, the construction of this station doesn't affect MFC's response one bit. MFC never responded to routine calls in YHFD's territory south of the reservoir and I don't believe that YHFD would ever enter into a dual response relationship to do so anyway. MFC has always been a mutual aid company to YHFD's district south of the reservoir and frankly the addition of a single engine company in a sparsely populated area isn't going to eliminate the need to call MFC for mutual aid on larger calls. So for MFC nothing changes. But this rant isn't about MFC its about a poor stewardship of the people's money and the fact that the YHFD commissioners have chosen to brazenly ignore and circumvent the wishes of the people who elected them in the first place. What ever happened to the "consent of the governed?"

Why not just use automatic mutual aid from Millwood?? Their substation is 1500 feet away with an engine, tanker, brush rig AND 4500 gallons of water.

Sadly this type of responses happen far too often. We have a very detailed guideline that requires that you truly need to use lights and sirens or respond in any manner outside of normal traffic, while others immediately around us have the opposite policy: respond Hot unless directed otherwise, and then only by your own Chief. We hear Chiefs running sirens to wires down, bark mulch fires, you name it, embarrassing.

Date: 07/07/15
Time: 0947 Hrs.
Location: Croton Point Avenue @ Veterans Plaza
District: CROTON FD
Units: C2082, ENG120, R18, CROTON EMS, OVAC ALS, CPD, AI UNIT, OPD

Description: Female hit by tractor trailer pinned under rear axle; removed using cribbing and bottle jacks in serious condition transported to WMC

Fascism flourishes when the fear to speak your mind replaces the freedom to do so. Remember Nazism was "politically correct" once too.

To the "PC" police...
You may not like what I have to say, but I have the right to say it...you only have the right not to listen.

Dude grow a thicker skin, nothing wrong with your post or SFRD18 providing some more information.

I am 60 years old and retired from the fire department and did not take the test. I agree with what you said but you still did not answer my question. All I am doing is looking for a answer, not what you think is the answer.

Granted $100 is a little bit of money for an exam fee, the amount is infinitesimal in the greater scheme of a possible multi-million dollar career. People whose dream is to be a firefighter will take the exam no matter what the fee is and that's who we want for the job. Where there's a will, there's a way!
If a billionaire lost his eye sight tomorrow how much do you think he'd pay to get it back???

Fairfield is a pretty squared away fire department and gives great service to it's residents, does about 9000 runs a year and if they don't catch work in Fairfield, they are mutual aid partners with Bridgeport' which sees plenty of action. Good Department with good guys. Chief Dunn will be a good fit and a great asset. ,

Great Post M' Ave! I also just wanted to add that FDNY uses an 18" pipe wrench because it opens to 2 1/2" inches so you can uncouple the cap on the standpipe outlets. You can also use it in place of the trusty F-Tool to gain leverage to turn the operating wheel. Use the inline pressure gauge to set your flow as they bleed the line of air and always open the outlet all the way before setting the pressure. Much easier to gate down your flow than struggle to catch up. AND if you're ever having a problem getting water from the outlet, Let everyone know right away!

Great Post M' Ave! I also just wanted to add that FDNY uses an 18" pipe wrench because it opens to 2 1/2" inches so you can uncouple the cap on the standpipe outlets. You can also use it in place of the trusty F-Tool to gain leverage to turn the operating wheel. Use the inline pressure gauge to set your flow as they bleed the line of air and always open the outlet all the way before setting the pressure. Much easier to gate down your flow than struggle to catch up. AND if you're ever having a problem getting water from the outlet, Let everyone know right away!

It seems every time there's talk about consolidation or regionalization it comes down to loss of control. Everyone wants more personnel to respond, few are willing to give up their control over their resources. If you're the Chief, why would you want to go back to having a boss and not having the final say? Only if you admit that's the best thing for your department and community and are willing to put those things first! Sadly, that's rare.

I think the biggest pit fall of this forum has been that many people on here promote "a pat on the back" for anything and everything. A "like button" which is pressed for posting an incident or any other thread. People are constantly looking for kudos every time they make a post and that clearly isn't going to happen. It is innate for human beings to disagree for the most part and most people have a difficult time coping with the fact that not everyone is going to agree with their opinions and may not get positive reinforcement. A wise man said a long time ago that "it has become appalling obvious that technology has exceeded humanity" and since that time it appears to have become harder and harder to engage another human in a conversation or any type of debate. For the most part all of us on here are buffs and trying to hone our skills and knowledge. So why be upset when someone tells you got screwed up or tells you their opinion of what they would've done??? Why not debate the circumstances and listen to their opinion. Maybe they've been in the same situation and seen the same outcome and maybe, just maybe you could pick up something you didn't even think about. Most arguments are misunderstandings anyway. A perfect example is the argument ongoing as I type this response. Rescue24 has made a post and although I may agree and disagree to certain parts, that clearly does not mean he isn't entitled to his opinion. I've noticed that most of the people who are actually willing to debate are kicked off the site because somebody cried about one of their responses. Now you're left with nobody to debate with and a pat on the back for everyone else's bullshit. Everyone who wanted to debate and learn something or just argue their opinions have left. Now it's just robots hitting a like button.
I don't have facebook or twitter, or anything of that nature because I feel it would be the bane of my existence but from looking at a few fire wires and such, I really don't see people debating topics on there either so I really see no reason for this site to be dead. Let's all communicate with each other and we'll actually accomplish something we didn't even think was possible.
Let's all get together and design a Turing machine which will solve this Enigma!!! LOL

Why is asking questions perceived as bashing? You can learn from asking questions so why isn't that encouraged especially when run numbers are so low and actual experience may be lacking.

I don't think many of the discussions were "bashing" or "career vs. volunteer". If someone has a different opinion it doesn't mean they're bashing yours. It means they have a different opinion.

There used to be some great insightful discussions here but now they're few and far between!

I think the biggest pit fall of this forum has been that many people on here promote "a pat on the back" for anything and everything. A "like button" which is pressed for posting an incident or any other thread. People are constantly looking for kudos every time they make a post and that clearly isn't going to happen. It is innate for human beings to disagree for the most part and most people have a difficult time coping with the fact that not everyone is going to agree with their opinions and may not get positive reinforcement. A wise man said a long time ago that "it has become appalling obvious that technology has exceeded humanity" and since that time it appears to have become harder and harder to engage another human in a conversation or any type of debate. For the most part all of us on here are buffs and trying to hone our skills and knowledge. So why be upset when someone tells you got screwed up or tells you their opinion of what they would've done??? Why not debate the circumstances and listen to their opinion. Maybe they've been in the same situation and seen the same outcome and maybe, just maybe you could pick up something you didn't even think about. Most arguments are misunderstandings anyway. A perfect example is the argument ongoing as I type this response. Rescue24 has made a post and although I may agree and disagree to certain parts, that clearly does not mean he isn't entitled to his opinion. I've noticed that most of the people who are actually willing to debate are kicked off the site because somebody cried about one of their responses. Now you're left with nobody to debate with and a pat on the back for everyone else's bullshit. Everyone who wanted to debate and learn something or just argue their opinions have left. Now it's just robots hitting a like button.
I don't have facebook or twitter, or anything of that nature because I feel it would be the bane of my existence but from looking at a few fire wires and such, I really don't see people debating topics on there either so I really see no reason for this site to be dead. Let's all communicate with each other and we'll actually accomplish something we didn't even think was possible.
Let's all get together and design a Turing machine which will solve this Enigma!!! LOL

I think the biggest pit fall of this forum has been that many people on here promote "a pat on the back" for anything and everything. A "like button" which is pressed for posting an incident or any other thread. People are constantly looking for kudos every time they make a post and that clearly isn't going to happen. It is innate for human beings to disagree for the most part and most people have a difficult time coping with the fact that not everyone is going to agree with their opinions and may not get positive reinforcement. A wise man said a long time ago that "it has become appalling obvious that technology has exceeded humanity" and since that time it appears to have become harder and harder to engage another human in a conversation or any type of debate. For the most part all of us on here are buffs and trying to hone our skills and knowledge. So why be upset when someone tells you got screwed up or tells you their opinion of what they would've done??? Why not debate the circumstances and listen to their opinion. Maybe they've been in the same situation and seen the same outcome and maybe, just maybe you could pick up something you didn't even think about. Most arguments are misunderstandings anyway. A perfect example is the argument ongoing as I type this response. Rescue24 has made a post and although I may agree and disagree to certain parts, that clearly does not mean he isn't entitled to his opinion. I've noticed that most of the people who are actually willing to debate are kicked off the site because somebody cried about one of their responses. Now you're left with nobody to debate with and a pat on the back for everyone else's bullshit. Everyone who wanted to debate and learn something or just argue their opinions have left. Now it's just robots hitting a like button.
I don't have facebook or twitter, or anything of that nature because I feel it would be the bane of my existence but from looking at a few fire wires and such, I really don't see people debating topics on there either so I really see no reason for this site to be dead. Let's all communicate with each other and we'll actually accomplish something we didn't even think was possible.
Let's all get together and design a Turing machine which will solve this Enigma!!! LOL