lemonice

There you have it; democracy in action.  Perhaps a much scaled down version can be presented to the public down the road.

 
http://www.lohud.com/story/news/local/westchester/new-castle/2016/10/26/chappaqua-fire-station-expansion-rejected/92765618/

Sorry for the job loss,but can't say i'am sorry to see news 12 go.more often then not they fail to get a story right.maybe the move will improve things....my opinion

 
Just going by the word of some ex-chiefs.
 
Alan,
In the career sector, its taken as an insult, like calling a volunteer a volunqueer. I'm not looking for a debate on this, do anybody really think a so called paid driver just drives a rig to a call ?
Enough said.

We know. The guy with no direct knowledge told us already.   

Then, why would you answer?

Too bad it was economically flaud study.
 
my favorite part is the claim that volunteers have increased statewide by 30,000 - 40,000. 

FASNY paid an economic research and statistical analysis company to write a glowing report about the excellent services being provided by volunteer fire departments. It's questionable as to how they came up with the figures presented that represent the cost of replacing volunteer departments with career departments. The response time information for volunteer departments isn't specific (Are they referring to the time the 911 operator received the call until first unit *not a chief's car* arrives on the scene, or the time the first unit signs on the air responding until they arrive at the scene? Are they referring to response time for all calls, just fire calls, just non fire emergencies, just EMS?). The bottom line is people rely upon fire, rescue and EMS services to respond quickly, be properly staffed, trained and equipped. Seconds count, and it's far more likely for a 24 / 7 career department to be able to provide an appropriate response in an acceptable time frame than it is for  a department that relies upon volunteers who in most cases must respond from their home or their place of work, to the firehouse before they can gear up and respond with the necessary apparatus. I volunteered for 17 years and am very aware of how understaffed departments are during normal work hours from Monday to Friday and how difficult it is to get a sufficient number of personnel to get out of their beds in the middle of the night for a call when they must be up for work or school in a couple of hours. I worked alongside many dedicated, well trained volunteers during those years, but regardless of how dedicated they are, work, school and family have to come before being available to get trained (initially), maintain annual training requirements (courses and drills) as well as respond to calls. 

It has nothing to do with the quality or capabilities of the latest FD officials, it's the political oversight that is unwilling to allow the FD to manage itself 

You seam to be the only one with a real problem.
 
sure lets take Port Chester out, I can change the name to many many other communities that believe the local FD is properly staffed when it is operating at such low numbers it can not even meet two in two out without mutual aid. These depts include volunteer, combo and career. My fight has always been about under staffing and calling people something they are not folks the public and the department.
 
last year acity councilwoman in another Westchester community made the comment that she was so proud of the 120 volunteers in their department. The Fire Chief almost fell out of his chair. He had to explain to her that most of the members were in their 70's and 80's and no longer responded to calls, but they were still "members". That brought the total number down to about 50, with only 18 or 19 being interior he said. And of those only a few were really active. In fact they average less than 2 interior firefighters responding to calls. 
 
Not too worry, their are plenty of members!

The misleading term is firefighter, because the public expects a firefighter. When your kid or parent is trapped inside and a bunch of people show up with turnout gear, they expect them to actually do something.
 
Recently, the Mayor of Port Chester claimed that the PCFD had 300 members, 150 interior. But we know that they only paid for 75 bailouts (required by NYS Law) but 16 were for the career FF's of both PCFD and RBFD. So they only have 59 at best. To many depts lie, even to themselves about the number of members.

Actually if I wanted to used a decisive term I would have used "Yard Breather" and I googled that and found a whole bunch of sites and definitions. Now these are members who are considered interior but never get inside because they use all their air walking back and forth outside.
 
if you watch all the videos on YouTube you can see that a vast majority of exterior personnel stand around waiting for the fire to go out.

Perhaps we should since some in the fire service insist on misleading the public about their department's capabilities.

This opens an entirely new chapter for the Port Chester Fire Department. 
 
Now it seems that some of the earlier negative comments made may appear to actually be true on that fire chiefs leadership qualities. 
 
Any members of that department that were aware of such behavior or conditions going on and failed to act, in my eyes are guilty as well.
 
This is now an embarrassment to the entire department. It appears their leader has let them all down.  I feel sorry for those that had no idea of any of this kind of activity going on and were only there to help the citizens of their community. 
 
The Port Chester Fire Department now has a stigma attached to its name. There apparently id no way that the fire chief can continue in his position. For any new chief coming in, you have inherited a hornets nest. 
 
With the right leadership things can and will improve. But it will take time. 
 
I will hope that this thought is kept in mind. "Don't blame a whole group of people for the actions of a few". For those of us on the outside looking in, we need to try and remember that.

 
That is not what MX is for.  Let's not forget ....that neighboring ladder is also at the parade .  You shouldn't take equipment out of town if it completely removed some lifesaving capability, like an aerial.
 
 
To address the issue of vehicles put of town for training, well, ya gotta train and a quick phone call to the neighbors to be on standby and a request with dispatch to automatically send another Dept's truck Co. can solve this problem.  
 
For training.  Not parades.
 
 
I remember seeing Broad Channel F.D. units at Westchester parades.  That's a looking haul.  Now, I know they just buff FDNY runs and the area is still covered, but if you can drive your ladder from Queens to Westchester.....you look unesccesary.

Your district/city/village decided that it was of the utmost importance for life safety to purchase that apparatus, what ever type it is, using taxpayer money. 
 
To remove it from service to show it off places everyone at risk. 
 
To those who say "that's what mutual aid is for," if that's your excuse, why not just rely on it all the time and use them instead of purchasing your own equipment. If you can justify the extra response time a couple times a year, other than mechanical or maintenance reasons, how can you effectively justify your need for your own apparatus all the time? 

Consider how it'll be interpreted when a chief sits on a witness stand, testifies under oath that his first due aerial or rescue could't respond because it was three towns away at parade or wet down.  Compare that to the testimony of a chief who's same equipment wasn't available because of the "nobler" reasons.  It's a lot better justification to be unavailable because of training or mutual aid rather than squirting water on the neighbors new rescue truck.  "We couldn't get there to extricate that family from their head on collision, because we were waiting for the trophies be announced at the convention parade!"

This is not a new topic...but it hits close to home.  I live in a 6 story, fire-proof multiple dwelling.  This means...there are no fire escapes.  If a fire were to occur on the 4th, 5th or 6th floors, a resident could potentially be blocked from their front door....the only means of egress.  Whats the other way out?  An aerial ladder.  What good is that aerial ladder when its 20 minutes away at a parade?  Maybe farther!  My local FD has several engines and one, single ladder.  Why does that ladder, the only means of high-rise rescue, EVER leave town?  To win a trophy?  To show off?  To look cool?
 
If there were ever a tragedy, I'd expect those responsible to see criminal charges.
 
Im all for parades.  Im all for tradition.  Our volunteers give time and these kind of events are joyful and proper compensation for dedication.  We should have fun and maintain freindly relationships with neighboring dept's through social activities.
 
However, our first mission is life-safety.  If a town has 3 or 4 engines and 1 ladder....um....the ladder doesnt go to parades.  Smarten up, send an engine.
 
 
There wasnt a need to include a dept. name, because this dept. is not unique.  The list of offenders is long, sadly.

I doubt that case can really be made. Up here other than Portland FD, most firefighters do not have a recruit academy, so there are a large number of volunteers who have the same FF I&II as entry level career staff. Often the VFD's give more opportunities for outside training, as their budgets can support that having little/no payroll. But that would discount the daily training regimen that most career firefighters have. My FD is a combo Fire & EMS department, our career personnel train every day, and the call personnel get the same topics (condenses) every two weeks. While we have some very capable call firefighters, the working knowledge is far different, born directly on the time spent with hands, eyes and discussion about the work. Not a slight, just a reality. Pretty difficult for a part timer of any profession to have the same overall knowledge and skills of a fulltime person of the "same" position.

I always take my info off Emergency services info boards. How about picking up the phone and calling Westchester County Human Resources.

When those soldiers who are standing fast are called to service they will be capable of shooting the enemy because they're all fully trained and qualified.  When these so called "fully trained exterior firefighters are called to push into a dwelling fire, he or she cannot.

Those "support" soldiers still have to qualify on the range, get thru chemical training and then while driving supply trucks they have had to fight, some being killed, other injured and some captured. They are placed in support rolls because that's where they are needed and that's where they will perform best, not because they are unwilling or unable to do it!

So then let's call it what it really is...
 
you ou have Firefighters and you have Firefighter Helpers.
 
i see too many departments that claim how many members they have, but they won't admit to themselves or the public they are sworn to protect when they do not have enough interior "firefighters" to actually do a search or make a real attack.

If your going to seriously compare numbers, most of the American population lives in urban areas and larger towns served by career or combo departments. Also, I would be willing to bet my next 5 pay checks on it that there are significantly more career firefighters than volunteer. Let me explain that one. You cannot say that a volunteer department in a small town that has 200 members in it, has 200 fire fighters. Stop the interior/exterior nonsense. No career department has an "exterior" FF. If you take the number of volunteer interior FFs and compare it to career, I think you'd be surprised. These towns should come out with the real number of people in their department who can pull you out of your house when it's on fire instead of saying they have hundreds of members "serving" their community . 
I have been an active volunteer FF for a couple of hours now, and a career firefighter for a few minutes. The biggest thing I have noticed is the hate of the volunteer FFs (who work somewhere else like say, FDNY) by Volunteer FFs. That's more of an issue than Union staff VS volunteers. Most likely, sorry but gonna say it, fuled by some level of jealousy . They can be their own worst enemy. 
 
Enjoy your day.
TYFYS

Learn the facts, the chiefs had a great deal in what happened. It wasn't the so called board. The chiefs of this dept. Are career firefighter haters.when a village board suggests that they are gonna cut the firefighter jobs, and the fire chiefs do not go out against eliminating the 1st due guaranted engine of their dept. , come on just think about it, It Stinks.... They all had a hand in this travesty.. But the only thing I can say is the career firefighters turned in  4300 signatures to the village to force a referendum , let the citizens decide and the board and the chiefs can shove it where the sun doesn't shine.....