velcroMedic1987

What proof do you have to support this statement?

Why is asking questions perceived as bashing? You can learn from asking questions so why isn't that encouraged especially when run numbers are so low and actual experience may be lacking.

I don't think many of the discussions were "bashing" or "career vs. volunteer". If someone has a different opinion it doesn't mean they're bashing yours. It means they have a different opinion.

There used to be some great insightful discussions here but now they're few and far between!

Why is asking questions perceived as bashing? You can learn from asking questions so why isn't that encouraged especially when run numbers are so low and actual experience may be lacking.

I don't think many of the discussions were "bashing" or "career vs. volunteer". If someone has a different opinion it doesn't mean they're bashing yours. It means they have a different opinion.

There used to be some great insightful discussions here but now they're few and far between!

Why is asking questions perceived as bashing? You can learn from asking questions so why isn't that encouraged especially when run numbers are so low and actual experience may be lacking.

I don't think many of the discussions were "bashing" or "career vs. volunteer". If someone has a different opinion it doesn't mean they're bashing yours. It means they have a different opinion.

There used to be some great insightful discussions here but now they're few and far between!

Why is asking questions perceived as bashing? You can learn from asking questions so why isn't that encouraged especially when run numbers are so low and actual experience may be lacking.

I don't think many of the discussions were "bashing" or "career vs. volunteer". If someone has a different opinion it doesn't mean they're bashing yours. It means they have a different opinion.

There used to be some great insightful discussions here but now they're few and far between!

The root word in Firefighting is not Fire- It's Fight. Train to fight, fight to win. Cancer and heart disease kill firefighters. We owe it to ourselves, each other and our families to maintain a healthy lifestyle.

A year or two ago a comment was made from Bravo management. Something like "I've cleaned house" this was in reference to the current moderators at that time. These mods were on top of their games both professionally and as Bravo moderators. Big mistake. Lost many a true member that day.

This subject is being discussed in January 2015. I'll check in again in January 2020. I'll bet not much will have changed.

So far this is the answer I like, and it seems to make sense. It now baffles me that the county would purchase a radio system that they KNEW wouldn't work throughout the entire county....then again, it would make entirely too much sense to purchase a system that covers the entire county .
Another question I have is what ever happened to switching the low band to high band? Or am I thinking of another county that was trying to do that? I recall vaguely that Westchester was trying to convert to high band radios, by my memory of this is vague.

Then it isn't 8400 per FF. It's 3000 per FF and 5400 x the number of FF who actually show up and are interior qualified. Substantially less than the total number I'm sure.

Then it isn't 8400 per FF. It's 3000 per FF and 5400 x the number of FF who actually show up and are interior qualified. Substantially less than the total number I'm sure.

From what I can tell, East Franklin is pretty close to setting the bar for volunteer training. We were fortunate enough to have spent a few hours with the Chief there about a year after Kevin Appuzio's LODD. As I recall they had a very strict schedule for their volunteers with mandatory "duty" time and minimum training done on each duty shift. I'm not sure what the base level training was, but by all appearances they were setting the ongoing training bar very high as compared to most VFD's I've been exposed to, and some career jobs.

Here's the BS of the problem....volunteer FF's tend to have significantly less training than our career counter parts. There are many reasons why we don't, such as a lack of time because most of us have full time jobs that require us to show up to earn a salary, or families that we can't leave behind over small incidents that otherwise wouldn't affect the most of us. It's a long list, but I don't have the time to waste to list you all the reasons. The matter of the fact is that vollies don't get enough training, for every reason. I would love to take more classes and be "Superman," but I realize that I have far more important things to do, like work!
In a perfect world we would all be trained to the same level. Unfortunately, it's not possible and never will be. The scheme of life just doesn't allow it, but it will always allow that rift between vollie and career FF's.
Now, I'm going to say something really mean, Bottom of Da Hill, and you're going to have to suck it up and take it like a man...You need to stop acting like you're tough sh!t. You're not. The brotherhood of the fire service is a tight knit community, and it's a small world. You just can't go around bashing every body. I speak from experience. I used to shoot my mouth off, too. But, I learned. Now it's your turn.
Alright, back to the original post......I'm guessing you're looking for answers from the volunteer side?? This is a tough question, mainly because every department has their own rules and regulations about the issue. Heck, some departments DON"T have rules or training standards (I unfortunately know of some). Looking at it from a broad stand point, most volunteer departments say FF1 is the basis to become interior, and Fire Officer 1 is needed for company officers. I'm not going to quote my department's policies because I can't find the binder with the by-laws and SOP's, but I can guarantee you that specific classes are required and some point throughout your tenure (I will elaborate once I find the binder lol).
Keep in mind that OFPC and NFPA have their suggestions/requirements, and most of that information is locatable through their respective websites and the wonderful world of Google. Your department may even have copies of the appropriate documents to read through, and your current officers should know where they are located in your fire house.
I do like your question, and I will start looking for more information to help you come to an answer that you're looking for. PM me if I forget to repost.

What is B.S.? That someone asked about standards?

IMHO this is 100% true. Responding to another agency's quarters to stand-by is not an emergency. There's no reason to throw on the lights and cause more traffic headaches because you need to move an engine or ladder from point A to point B. And, if you get called somewhere/to the scene, it's so easy to hit that master switch to go RLS to the scene.
I remember upstate we (my hometown) never went RLS to stand-by. Other departments would, and they did so because departments are much further apart. I only think my department had our policy because we rarely went to another's quarters as we were normally dispatched to the scene.

Websters defines an emergency as immediate threat to life and limb. A big chunk of real estate that happens not to have any available fire engines in it, but also has no call pending, in my tiny brain is not an emergency. Pretty much everyday (if not all day) in this (Westcheste) County a town or large city may have ALL of its EMS resources out on calls or otherwise unavailable. The likelyhood of another call coming in is high, and the chance of it being serious is also high, yet the thought of moving another ambulance in from out of town to cover would NEVER happen, and when it does it is NEVER RLS. Yet when a Town's fire resources are all commited, it is like, Holy Crap, we gotta get crews and trucks over there ASAP, even though there is amost no chance of another call coming in, and the chance of it being serious is tiny. In the above situation, Pelham gets less than a call a day and less then a fire per year, I believe.
Can anyone tell me why we fear burning to death so much more than dieing of dieing by or sudden illness, even though the latter is like 1000X more likely?

There is not one civil service paid firefighter in Rockland county. So, the volunteer standard is all they have,
Fact is, you go to a majority of the other states in the union, and all volunteers must be trained to the same level as career firefighters before they are allowed to ride on calls. Why is this? Because it makes sense. How can anyone possibly agree and promote less training for anyone who is responsible for the lives of others? Why should volunteers be allowed to respond with this minimal amount of training, but career personnel have an exorbitant amount?
Simple example would be exploring a train accident on the MTA lines. How many volunteer departments who have MTA Lines run through them, require their firefighters to undergo MTA train safety if there is an accident on the tracks? How many departments require their firefighters to undergo mass casualty incident training, or mass hazmat decon training if another 9-11 happens and biochem or nuclear weapons are utilized and released into the general population in the city and commuters start to take the trains home prior to any transit ban placed into effect? Fact is, all career departments who sent their members to the academy, have received this training. I just found out the other day that FF1 no longer teaches how to operate a saw, or cut a roof. That's reserve for truck company class.
Forget about the population and what level of service they are receiving. The real questions are why, should you as a firefighter, choose to be unknowingly exposed to risks that you cannot even comprehend until you go through training? And paralleling that, as someone who is responding to those types of incidents, you should be demanding that you get trained in how to respond to those emergencies so you know and understand the risks and what to do CORRECTLY during those incidents. What kind of message does that send when we except apathy from our ranks in regards to training? People should be striving to learn all they can about the fire service, not actively attempting to hamper others safety.

I doubt very much that more people die in fires or water related incidents than from heart attacks, strokes, and other medical emergencies in Northern Westchester or Putnam yet we sit here debating about how a 20 minute response time for a dive team may be too long while at the same time accepting that for an ambulance response time. 3rd tones, going mutual aid. Tick tock, tick tock.

The hypocrisy and misguided priorities astonishes me.
If dive teams are so important, put one in every department. Then do the same for haz-mat, tech rescue, etc. etc. etc. Pretty soon everybody doing nothing and we are revisiting this thread when everyone is selling their gear like Somers.
It's a pity that Somers has to disband their dive team. They had invested a lot of time, resources and effort to maintain it.

I doubt very much that more people die in fires or water related incidents than from heart attacks, strokes, and other medical emergencies in Northern Westchester or Putnam yet we sit here debating about how a 20 minute response time for a dive team may be too long while at the same time accepting that for an ambulance response time. 3rd tones, going mutual aid. Tick tock, tick tock.

The hypocrisy and misguided priorities astonishes me.
If dive teams are so important, put one in every department. Then do the same for haz-mat, tech rescue, etc. etc. etc. Pretty soon everybody doing nothing and we are revisiting this thread when everyone is selling their gear like Somers.
It's a pity that Somers has to disband their dive team. They had invested a lot of time, resources and effort to maintain it.

I doubt very much that more people die in fires or water related incidents than from heart attacks, strokes, and other medical emergencies in Northern Westchester or Putnam yet we sit here debating about how a 20 minute response time for a dive team may be too long while at the same time accepting that for an ambulance response time. 3rd tones, going mutual aid. Tick tock, tick tock.

The hypocrisy and misguided priorities astonishes me.
If dive teams are so important, put one in every department. Then do the same for haz-mat, tech rescue, etc. etc. etc. Pretty soon everybody doing nothing and we are revisiting this thread when everyone is selling their gear like Somers.
It's a pity that Somers has to disband their dive team. They had invested a lot of time, resources and effort to maintain it.

I doubt very much that more people die in fires or water related incidents than from heart attacks, strokes, and other medical emergencies in Northern Westchester or Putnam yet we sit here debating about how a 20 minute response time for a dive team may be too long while at the same time accepting that for an ambulance response time. 3rd tones, going mutual aid. Tick tock, tick tock.

The hypocrisy and misguided priorities astonishes me.
If dive teams are so important, put one in every department. Then do the same for haz-mat, tech rescue, etc. etc. etc. Pretty soon everybody doing nothing and we are revisiting this thread when everyone is selling their gear like Somers.
It's a pity that Somers has to disband their dive team. They had invested a lot of time, resources and effort to maintain it.

That is a very interesting observation. There would bet there are more water fatalities than fire fatalities. In my town that is the case. It would take more time than I have to research it. But I don't think more dive teams would mean fewer water deaths. Many are in swimming pools, and some are jumpers that are dead from the fall height, so dive teams wouldn't help save those people.
Maybe some one can or will correct me, but I believe the biggest wate rescue operation we have, The Coast Guard, does not have divers. They save by surface rescue only. That is per the book, "Dead Men Tapping", which is a few years old. (real life story of 3 men dieing in an overturned boat while USCG rounded up private divers).

Government acts quickly when it suits them. Look at the so-called "SAFE ACT". Passed in under a month.
The government doesn't treat this as a priority because we continue to fight with each other rather than fighting for the issues.

The legislation was intruduced by SENATOR Pataki. Older folks here may recall he was Governor Pataki AFTER he was a Senator, but that was 4 governors back. So I would urgently ask that you not hold your breath waiting for that change to come through.
A Fire District can push to form an Ambulance district. The Town has to do the actual forming. That would involve admitting you can't fix it yourself and also the possibility of giving up a portion of your domain (providing EMS). Therefore I don't think you will see it often. I did read about one NY FD that did do that, though. Not sure who or where. NYS has an awful lot of special districts- sewer, water, fire, EMS, streetlighting, lake, business improvement, sanitation, school... There may be little willingness to make yet another one, even though in this case it makes sense.