Jybehofd

Not that today's rigs aren't impressive looking, but some of the older trucks seemed to have more character and individualism. Aside from some minor differences, like the grille, most apparatus has become like most cars, can't tell one from the other.

True statement. I have witnessed first hand how clicks single out people and bully them. Sad part is many of those in these clicks are elected by the public in good faith to make sure the agency is doing the right thing but instead using their authority to throw people out for no good reason.

in the long run yes. the true question is when? I hate to say it but it happens. I started as a volunteer and enjoyed it. But the nature of it is to destory itself from the inside out. Becoming a giant political atmosphere with clicks and groups of people that single out and yes bully others at times. And in the end those groups fall apart and go away and few are actually left. The foundation of the volunteer agency is pure, help your neighbor in a time of need, if you are able to respond.

This article hits on a lot of good points.
I think the system on a whole, on how EMS is delivered in Westchester, needs to be re-evaluated. Is each individual system paying EMT's a solid long term solution, or just a short term fix?

If "I'm a little shaken up" is a complaint, then we should also be at every movie theater showing a horror flick and Great Flags at the end of their crazy roller coasters. People claim to be "shaken up" by lots of things but that doesn't make them a "patient".
There is (or was) an EMS policy on calls involving no patient, cancellation, etc. Maybe people should refer to that.

Yeah that is the question but it seems like it should be answered at the supervisor level or even higher I was original trained that a flycar medic does a fast triage takes a report on one patient and let's the BLS unit do the rest or do what there department has in SOP/GOPs for the situation But coming on scene and finding no patients can simple put it as a police matter no patients The answer I got from my job is to write paper on all persons involved no matter wha as a fly car medic because the BLS departments can't be trusted to do it...
But this was a verbal change. No policy memo or email on it

This is a good question that certainly ought to have an answer consistent with agency policy. We struggle with this every few years and just now are looking for an actual documented policy.
The issue we seem to face is the MVA where some passerby calls 911, while no one in the MVA requests EMS or needs it. Along come our EMS crews who do full "refusals" on everyone at the scene. I've contended for many years that one of the "patients" could simply refuse to be evaluated, talk to EMS and flat out not sign a thing. Of course that would get documented. Really the full signed refusal is a CYA for the service and personnel. The problem comes when you're fairly busy and being tied up for 'no reason" causes further problems with responding to other calls. This just came up two shifts ago when the crews responded to a "property damage" MVA when 20 minutes later the driver reported to the LEO that he had a headache from striking his forehead on the steering wheel. Along comes Fire & EMS and finds 5 persons involved, three are minors with no parents available. No one needed EMS, all wanted to refuse all evals and any transport. Now we have a crew tied up trying to get sign offs for minors who were involved in a PD only MVA. In the end, they could have treated this as a single victim EMS responses due to how it was reported/requested.
There are many services that require refusals on everyone involved in an MVA they respond to, we do this 95% of the time, as our City Attorney feels it's much easier to defend things that are documented, vs. responding and not documenting any contact. His question has been: What's to stop someone from claiming they were injured and EMS never evaluated them to determine if they were at the time? I can see WAS 967's point of getting Name and DOB, which at least shows that you had some contact and backs up your claim that the denied wanting/needing EMS evaluation. Basically, the more that is documented the better? As far as taking that to the next level of conducting a full refusal? On our system each patient refusal takes about 1/2 hr (soup to nuts)...

I would tend to agree with you but I was told before I retired that our commercial EMS agency would write up everyone as a patient and have them RMA. I later found out that they billed for this. THAT changed my opinion on the subject

Recently this has come up at my job. When is someone a patient? If 6 cars bounce off each other minor damage too all vehicles and no one is complaining of anything, note everyone is up of the vehicles and walking around. Are they all patients? Is a PCR writtien as no patient found with the name of all the individuals that were asked if they were patients? What is the proper way?

If I may add in another scenario:
Someone has an MVA and DOES NOT ask for EMS and is NOT unconsciuous. Someone does call 911 and report it and and ambulance arrives. An involved person says, to the effect, "I have an abrasion on my arm from the airbag, but I am OK", or "My knee hurts from hitting the dash board but I think I am OK." I would say this common type of event makes these folks patients.
On the other hand, same collision scenario- no one asked for EMS but an ambulance gets sent due to caller info and the then all involved deny any complaint. I don't think those folks are patients. If you are not sick or hurt I don't feel you area patient. I bet the DOH has some info on this commonly discussed issue, but I am far too lazy to research it and post a link. And it may vary state by state. And State policy may allow for agency protocol.

a individual is a patient when
1. the person requests medial assistance (direct request)
2. a 3rd party requests medical assistance for an individual at their request (informed request)
3. a 3rd party requests medical assistance for an individual who can not request on their own (unresponsive, altered,) (implied request)

Based on some of these posts, I can't help but wonder if some of you were dropped on your heads as babies. What is even more concerning is how little some people know, armchair quarterback and jump to conclusions.
I have a fairly good amount of training regarding trains and train emergencies. I have - what I believe - is a wealth of knowledge of the fire service, including resources in this county and around us. I also have responded to and run a handful of incidents involving mass-casualties.
I have never - nor has 99.5% of you - had an incident like this. The people running it did a TOP NOTCH JOB, and the fact that some of you are sitting back, typing away and criticizing any decisions of the Incident Commander or any others at this incident just fortifies why I have little faith that we can ever become better as a county. Some of you posting here are officers, past officers or - God help us - aspiring officers in your respective agencies. As the Maitre D' in Ferris Bueller's Day off said, "I weep for the future."
/rant
And for the record, this is me, as a person, voicing my opinion which has no reflection of any affiliation I have or have had in the past.

The IC should have called a full alarm response from the city of White Plains. they are the closest fully staffed dept. Put your egos aside and think about the people on the train. This is not a dig at any of the 1st responders that were on scene, but if I was the IC I would want more then less on scene

Where you sit in the ambulance makes a big difference as well.....everyone loves to spec "CPR seats".....watch this video on why this seat is dangerous without a 3 point restraint.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-TWXjDYqCk
I'm just trying to make conversation.

Not to throw stones, but how does one determine a particular brand is: Very Safe? Do they offer more safety features? Do more testing? Or have you experienced firsthand the safety?
We have AEV's, specced heavily for provider safety with numerous non-standard features, but in the end we have no proof that they'll be any better or worse. I can conclusively say they cost more. But we're not looking to cut safety to save money, except that it appears the safer patient compartments are not as functional for patient care, which to me is not a place we can sacrifice.

I like it that there are emd protocalls to fallow and all i don't mean to bash dispatcher but we need more of them especially in westchester. because on a daily basis it seems like calls don't get emd. so what if the ebola patient doesn't get emd? should we wear full ppe for the sick call? i know that its not as wide spread as it is in africa and it is tightly under control here. Just a food for thought. But I am not too worried about it just yet.
On a different note, why can't we just have an automatic diversion to an approved ebola hospital ? why risk local hospitals and risk the staff there? if the patient doesn't have it and only has a bad case of the flu whats the harm? if they do have it and pass while transporting won't you want that ambulance crew at that hospital anyway? bets getting another crew possibly exposed and another ambulance exposed too? just some thoughts nothing more. but we could use some training in decon, I personaly have some and talking to others its kinda scary. I would prefer going through a decon wash line then just taking things off. and always with a buddy.

Amazing.....'cause no one ever claimed there was an issue with the dispatch systems in this city before
This sad event has simply brought to light the flaws in a system that we in the field have been talking about for years. Firemen, cops, dispatchers, ect have voiced endless concern over UCT and inter-agency communications.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but i recall being told that when a Fire Disp. needs to contact police, they simply dial 911 and go through UCT.

Finally!


Article: http://www.lohud.com/story/news/politics/albany-watch/2014/10/21/cpr-training-ny-high-schools-now-law/17698347/

Just rely on Mutual Aid like many other Depts.! After all aren't we there to help each other out? That's the "Brotherly" thing to do these days right? Jump on a rig and play in each others sandboxes no big deal!

To clarify. The County did not refuse to dispatch the METU. I requested it and was advised through the proper dispatch procedure that the vehicle was not yet placed in service and that it was not available. This is no different than any other fire apparatus or ambulance. The County did coordinate the dispatch of two Bee Line buses in its place. Many of you need to climb out of your glass house and visit the real world. Stop posting and spreading rumors before knowing the facts.

Same reason I wouldn't want to call County Tech Rescue Team. Nice trucks for a parade can't get out the door when volunteers are coming from all directions in the county. My first call is NR, YO, WP. (In no particular order) for jobs a small town can't handle. County MERV or METU whatever it is, is no different. Not volly bashing and I'm no career guy either but how long are you going to wait? Look no more then a Rye incident a few months back. Not Monday morning QB, just based on time reaponse posted and listening. You can't depend on people having to come from 15-20 min assemble a crew and then respond 20min away. That's 40-45 min. Maybe the MERV will stil be needed that long into operation. Most likely but just insane.

The first question to ask is who is responsible for staffing it and responding with it? Who is in charge of the regular maintenance and who is trained to use it?

I am guessing they were minors and at the scene complained of something or said yes when asked. Cya they go unless a guardian come to sign

Just chiming in here...you are correct on the timing of a drill.....do it at 10 am...or 3 am and see what you get. No notice no clues...do it in a part of Westchester that is notoriously UNDERSTAFFED during those hours and see what you get...i say chaos which in the case of an MCI with so many buffs and not enuffs..... I don't have a solution but it scares me everyday to think what would happen. Perhaps a central county EMS with 2 or three busses and a supervisor ready to respond and take charge of a scene no matter the juristiction! Lets face it from WMC to any part of the county you really are no more than 10 to 15 minutes away from anywhere. God forbid a commercial aircraft MCI near HPN....from WMC its a 8 to 10 minute response....from Yonkers its 15....Empress could handle first MCI response to south county....I guess WEMS could handle north county but a central county should come out of WMC.

Your thinking pro-active. Westchester is mostly re-active unless it's a federal mandate cough like the airport.
Who would man the mass medical unit if it was called out to the northern part of the county ?