Drinking in the rig at the parade?

[Remember585 815]

Is this the beginning of the annual "F parades" and "FF Drinking" threads? Kinda early, no?

Any Department, on both sides of the fence, that has no policy regarding alcohol is just plain stupid. It is probably the single most frequent cause of more incidents of stupidity and, in some cases, criminal acts then anything else in the fire service. It does not belong, period, end of story.

If you are hosting an FD function and want to provide alcohol for people, then do it OFF FD GROUNDS, OUT OF UNIFORM and keep it under control! There is nobody on this network that has ever been to a cook out or a family BBQ where there is no beer. The difference in our case is the frequent availability of it and the "We can get away with anything" attitude. It is BS and it has got to end! Inspections, Friendship Nights, etc. are a GREAT WAY TO KICK BACK WITH FRIENDS AND FAMILY, but if you want to allow beer, RENT A HALL OR A PARK - Stay out of the firehouse!

And parades......is it that difficult to show some respect to the uniform and not have a beer? Give me a break. If you want to drink a few, get out of uniform and go to a bar or go home! I hate seeing guys so sh--faced and in uniform that they can't walk, talk or even stand. Guys like that need to find a new hobby, because they don't belong in the firehouse.

Edited January 26, 2008 by Remember585

[ex-commish 490]

i "We even have a unwritten policy for parades. If your going to drink and be a a** take of your uniform and put civilian clothes on."

I tried not to respond but.... great that you have such a rule, BUT WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE THE a**. THAT IS USUALLY RESERVED FOR EVERYBODY ELSE.

As for the video, there was more than enough a** to pass around, was it the firefighter drinking, the fact that someone turned on the pass alarm, the rest of the guys who thought they were having fun, the "officer" who should have been in the front seat and in charge of the apparatus, the driver for driving with all that distraction, AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST THE a****** WHO SHOT THE VIDEO,PUT IT ON U-TUBE, AND BROUGHT DISGRACE TO HIS WHOLE DEPT.

STUPID CAN NOT BE TAUGHT

Stupid can't be taught but this video shows how stupid is contageous.

[weaselff 6]

Before everybody takes the moral high road, Id find it hard to believe the majority of the guys on this board career or volunteer have not had a few beers in their class A's after a parade, funeral, memorial day, etc. In my 9 years of paid and volly experience I have seen dozens of guys say and do moronic s*** at such functions. Was it at times childish and perhaps innaprpriate(especially at funerals)? Yes. Would I trust many of these same guys with my life in a fire? Absolutely.

I will agree that it was especially stupid to film this behavior and post it on youtube. I noticed the West Hempstead HS hockey videos on his site, so Iam guessing he is from an LI department which makes it even dumber since his local paper(newsday) has had a vendetta against the volunteer service out their for a number of years.

[FirNaTine 370]

Before everybody takes the moral high road, Id find it hard to believe the majority of the guys on this board career or volunteer have not had a few beers in their class A's after a parade, funeral, memorial day, etc. In my 9 years of paid and volly experience I have seen dozens of guys say and do moronic s*** at such functions. Was it at times childish and perhaps innaprpriate(especially at funerals)? Yes. Would I trust many of these same guys with my life in a fire? Absolutely.

I will agree that it was especially stupid to film this behavior and post it on youtube. I noticed the West Hempstead HS hockey videos on his site, so Iam guessing he is from an LI department which makes it even dumber since his local paper(newsday) has had a vendetta against the volunteer service out their for a number of years.

You hit the nail right on the head weaselff. Some of us though are in denial and only see one side of things.

[lad12derff 283]

Not in a career department? Your kiding right? Lets just look at NYC. The Animal House in the Bronx. Drinking, sex. OK lets look at Staten Island, the FF who got hit over the head with a kitchen chair. Drinking was a problem in both cases. Don't say drinking in the fire house on duty doesn't happen. Thats the same as a high school administrator who says there are no drugs in their school. Get your head out of the sand (bet everyone was thinging I'd say something else) Career of Volunteer doens't matter. Its there but at least the career guys keep it in the hjouse not out in the street where John Q Public can see.

And what happened to all these members who you speak of????? Oh thats right they lost their jobs like they should have. There is a difference between paid and volley, we are held to higher standards

[TL2L31 8]

And what happened to all these members who you speak of????? Oh thats right they lost their jobs like they should have. There is a difference between paid and volley, we are held to higher standards

I am sure that there are still alot of thing that the public never hears about. EVERY firehouse has an idiot ot two. It is just the law of averages.

[eckyphats 0]

its just too bad that we do not live in a perfect world and every dept could have "professional firefighter's" huh......

Edited January 26, 2008 by eckyphats

[DOC22 1]

I know this may get erased and some of you are going to pull the volly vs. career crap but honestly this kind of stuff does not happen in a career departments. We would most likely be fired. There are no real repercussions for this stupidity in volly departments and there should be. Could these morons be kicked out? Would the tax payer like to see this? These are just my feelings if you dont like it oh well!

Ya know what? I think they could face disciplinary action. Maybe---conduct unbecoming????? Not sure they would be "Kicked out" permanently, but they should be suspended for a good amount of time. Just my $0.02

[FirNaTine 370]

And what happened to all these members who you speak of????? Oh thats right they lost their jobs like they should have. There is a difference between paid and volley, we are held to higher standards

Bro. let's face it. The only reason they lost their job was because of all the attention it got with the media. Scopetta and the Top Brass had to do something to pacify the public and uphold FDNY's image. If it was kept in house, like many of us try and do, nothing probably would have been done. You know as well as I, there's alot of shanannigans that go on that aren't reported and dealt with on a disciplinary level. Who we kidding. After all, isn't that what the "BROTHERHOOD" is all about? Looking after and protecting each other till the bitter end?

[ajsbear 11]

All I am saying, the incidents I mentioned were the ones that became public. Many Volunteer departments today are adopting policies about drinking. Some are to the point not only none allowed on the department grounds but no drinking at any department events and if you go to an event representing the dpearment and there is drinking, you are not allowed. There was a time that I knew of guys who came to work with a 6 pack and a sandwich for dinner. Yea career FF's. It was in more than 1 department. It happens and is kept hidden.

[TL2L31 8]

Bro. let's face it. The only reason they lost their job was because of all the attention it got with the media. Scopetta and the Top Brass had to do something to pacify the public and uphold FDNY's image. If it was kept in house, like many of us try and do, nothing probably would have been done. You know as well as I, there's alot of shanannigans that go on that aren't reported and dealt with on a disciplinary level. Who we kidding. After all, isn't that what the "BROTHERHOOD" is all about? Looking after and protecting each other till the bitter end?

I agree.

[BFD2553 75]

Before everybody takes the moral high road, Id find it hard to believe the majority of the guys on this board career or volunteer have not had a few beers in their class A's after a parade, funeral, memorial day, etc. In my 9 years of paid and volly experience I have seen dozens of guys say and do moronic s*** at such functions. Was it at times childish and perhaps innaprpriate(especially at funerals)? Yes. Would I trust many of these same guys with my life in a fire? Absolutely.

I will agree that it was especially stupid to film this behavior and post it on youtube. I noticed the West Hempstead HS hockey videos on his site, so Iam guessing he is from an LI department which makes it even dumber since his local paper(newsday) has had a vendetta against the volunteer service out their for a number of years.

Yes it's a L.I. Dept. I wonder if anyone from the V@$$%Y S@#$%M FD would care to say what if any action was taken by the department .

[BIGRED1 71]

Ok i think these guys are morons and it would have been funny if the guys were just in an engine bay and it was like " hey i got my camara, mike do that robot dance to the PASS alarms" then we would all laugh it. as for the drinking all i am gonna say is, The Harbor Island Bullpen. They have a truck parked there giving out free beer, which i have drank years ago (so i am no angel), which is in plain sight of the public. so while these morons drinking IN the rig are guilty and i am sure the "space in between Mountains / another name for a brook" department will be looking into this. Bet one of them is not even 21.

[AFS1970 504]

So what we have is a bunch of idiots doing something stupid and actually filming it. Despite all the posturing and bashing in both directions here, not a single post has defended these morons. Drinking at or after a parade really has nothing to do with Career or Volunteer (I've been at parades and hoisted a cold one with friends who were Career Firefighters and who were Volunteer Firefighters). So leave this open for everyone to see, because this thread says allot about who we are, in that the posts are mostly calling for increased responsibility and respect. This thread, like so many others before it, will die a natural death without much fanfare.

[lad12derff 283]

I am sure that there are still alot of thing that the public never hears about. EVERY firehouse has an idiot ot two. It is just the law of averages.

I am not saying the paid side is any better. I was just saying we will get fired for what they were doing. I think the volleys should be held to the same standard. What does the public know? You see the paper that reads FF Joe Blow from East No Where NY arrested for ..... they don't say he was a painter or an doctor they just say firefighter. Until the chiefs of these depts start acting as chiefs this will continue to happen. These members had no right to be drinking in the rig what so ever.

[ajsbear 11]

I am not saying the paid side is any better. I was just saying we will get fired for what they were doing. I think the volleys should be held to the same standard. What does the public know? You see the paper that reads FF Joe Blow from East No Where NY arrested for ..... they don't say he was a painter or an doctor they just say firefighter. Until the chiefs of these depts start acting as chiefs this will continue to happen. These members had no right to be drinking in the rig what so ever.

I agree, there should be one standard and the time is now to get drinking out of hte firehouse and any department sponsored activities. There are several departments in Westchester and Putnam who have started this. I also agree career or Volly Alcohol should not be allowed. What I did say and it seems some people took offense is that there are people on both sides who may benefit from some form of alcohol tratment for their own good. To say that every career firehouse is clean is like I said, the school administrators saying that there are no drugs in their schools. The only time we hear about the problem in a firehouse is when either someone gets hurt like the 2 NY incidents or some moron films it and puts it on UTUBE. Lets get one thing straight, both sides need to clean up. The only difference is if a career FF gets caught it could be their job and livelyhood. On the Volly side they get thrown out. Both however could face a legal problem as well.

[firemoose827 324]

To AJSBear you site 2 incidents within the FDNY where better judgement was clouded by alcohol and the outcome was a severe black eye to the entire department. What you fail to point out is the penalties that followed to all parties involved. Terminations, transfers, suspensions and loss of pay. That is what EFD stated in his post that altough these things do occasionally go on in career depts, there is swift and severe punishment that often discourages such behavior. Guys on every level whether career or volly want to be reffered to as professionals, Ive seen 2 videos this week that I would say are far from professional. The fire service is known as a para-military organization which means its members are held to a certain standard, and are expected to act accordingly. It just seems in many places career or volly the self discipline of the members and the enforcment of superiors has gone by the way side. As always its JMO and Im not bashing anyone, I know there are some members on here with onion skin.

Yet on the same token, you and EFD are stating that because a few volunteer firefighters seen in this video doing something wrong is an indication that it happens ALL OVER and that no volunteer dept takes actions against their members. Being you are both professional firefighters does that mean you are right?

In my volunteer dept we have STRICT rules in regards to alcohol. Our station is dry, meaning no alcoholic beverages allowed on premises, not even for our banquet. When responding to parades there is to be NO consuption of alcohol by members riding on the truck. If you want to have a beer than you respond on your own and without your uniform. If we violate this we are terminated. But thats propbably still not good enough. And evidentaly its EFD that has the onion skin, hes the only one seen in this discussion loosing their temper and using profanity where its not needed. AJS was simply stating that it happens everywhere, and that it shouldnt be discussed here that paid guys are exempt from this discussion. And to clarify for those of you who cant see the obvious, the truck is parked along side the road, not moving, obviously waiting for the parade to start. The side door is open, and you can see the traffic driving by, so the guy who said the driver of this truck should be written up for allowing all of the distraction in the back to happen while driving should take a better look.

On top of that, I didnt realise that a group of firefighters doing the robot was going to be the top issue here, and Im sorry a few of our members deemed it necessary to call them morons for that. Im sure that during a dept dance or banquet or parade NONE of the members of this site got drunk and did anything stupid........right???? We are all perfect little angels and never did anything remotely stupid??? I highly doubt it and think that this was a intentional poke at what happened in the video. I for one signed up for this group to participate in discussions about firefighting, and haz-mat and rescue ops and EMS. Are we getting desperate for stuff to talk about that we have to search youtube for videos to critique???

Just MY 2 cents.

[FirNaTine 370]

No Career guy is going to get fired for drinking in the station, trust me! He may, and I say may get charges and that's only if the boss isn't hoisting a few with him. They'll send the individual(s) away to Club Medical(a.k.a Camp Rum and Coke) before they'd fire him or them. They usually give individuals the old 3 strikes and your out policy, but I've even seen that extended for certain people, while others were forced to resign. This is why most Career Depts. have an EAP. The Unions wouldn't have it anyother way.

Edited January 26, 2008 by FirNaTine

[ex-commish 490]

although doing the robot to the pass alarm is unique, drinking in the rig is unfortunately not.

i see the guys youtube name is ding1720 as in dingbat

What is so "unique" about doing the robot to the pass alsrm?

[IzzyEng4 427]

Yes it's a L.I. Dept. I wonder if anyone from the V@$$%Y S@#$%M FD would care to say what if any action was taken by the department .

It wasn't them, the next town south of them that had the problem. The company with the Gieco mascot name.

[robert benz 344]

Yet on the same token, you and EFD are stating that because a few volunteer firefighters seen in this video doing something wrong is an indication that it happens ALL OVER and that no volunteer dept takes actions against their members. Being you are both professional firefighters does that mean you are right?

In my volunteer dept we have STRICT rules in regards to alcohol. Our station is dry, meaning no alcoholic beverages allowed on premises, not even for our banquet. When responding to parades there is to be NO consuption of alcohol by members riding on the truck. If you want to have a beer than you respond on your own and without your uniform. If we violate this we are terminated. But thats propbably still not good enough. And evidentaly its EFD that has the onion skin, hes the only one seen in this discussion loosing their temper and using profanity where its not needed. AJS was simply stating that it happens everywhere, and that it shouldnt be discussed here that paid guys are exempt from this discussion. And to clarify for those of you who cant see the obvious, the truck is parked along side the road, not moving, obviously waiting for the parade to start. The side door is open, and you can see the traffic driving by, so the guy who said the driver of this truck should be written up for allowing all of the distraction in the back to happen while driving should take a better look.

On top of that, I didnt realise that a group of firefighters doing the robot was going to be the top issue here, and Im sorry a few of our members deemed it necessary to call them morons for that. Im sure that during a dept dance or banquet or parade NONE of the members of this site got drunk and did anything stupid........right???? We are all perfect little angels and never did anything remotely stupid??? I highly doubt it and think that this was a intentional poke at what happened in the video. I for one signed up for this group to participate in discussions about firefighting, and haz-mat and rescue ops and EMS. Are we getting desperate for stuff to talk about that we have to search youtube for videos to critique???

Just MY 2 cents.

I am the guy who stated that the driver should not move the apparatus while that is going on, SORRY I MISSED THE OBVIOUS!!!. I HAVE BEEN IN THE FIRE SERVICE FOR 27 YRS AN OFFICER FOR ALMOST 20 OF THEM AND I HAVE NEVER DONE ANYTHING STUPID WHILE IN UNIFORM, DRUNK OR OTHERWISE. AND I ALSO STAND BY MY STATEMENT THAT THIS IS A VERY STUPID ACT FOR IT TO WIND UP ON THE INTERNET.

As an ex officer, would have accepted this behavior since you are quick to point out the negative responses?

[AndyC3J 190]

What about the company in New Jersey where, late last summer, four guys got suspended for coming back from a wetdown with beer on their breath. One was a driver, one or two were underage, and one was an officer who did nothing to stop it all. They all paid the price for their behavior.

I guess some places are just more strict about it than others. It really is a shame. If you can't party responsibly, then either don't, or get yourself some help. Nothing wrong with having a drink or two (as long as you're not driving), but to get smashed every time the chance presents itself is just wrong.

THAT is where the anti-parade and anti-wetdown crowds get their ammo. The ones that have to go and ruin it for someone because they can't play by the rules. Has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not the guy is getting a paycheck for being where he is.

[Beachbum 1]

I know this may get erased and some of you are going to pull the volly vs. career crap but honestly this kind of stuff does not happen in a career departments. We would most likely be fired. There are no real repercussions for this stupidity in volly departments and there should be. Could these morons be kicked out? Would the tax payer like to see this? These are just my feelings if you dont like it oh well!

Not to knock you but this does happen in the paid departments. This comment is coming from a fellow career member. What happens on St. Patricks Day in the city. Are you not in uniform representing your fire department? Unfortunately this happens in both sides of the F.D. There are repercussions in the vol side of it too like getting kicked out to even being arrested. So don't go firing out comments before you do your research.

[Guest]

DRINKING ON, NEAR OR DURING ANY FIRE DEPT FUNCTION IS WRONG PERIOD. UNFOURTANTLY THIS HAS BEEN AND WILL CONTINUE IN THE FIRE SERVICE. BOTH PAID AND VOLUNTEER.....AND I GOT MAD AS AN OFFICER WHEN MY DRIVER HAD THE SIREN ON IN A RESD NEIGHBORHOOD AT 3AM GOING TO A CALL....THE DRIVER SHOULD NOT HAVE MOVED THE VEH WHLE THERE WAS BEER ON THE RIG. AND THE OFFICER SHOULD NOT BE AN OFFICER. WHAT KIND OF ROLE MODEL DO WE SET AS OFFICERS TO THE YOUNG AND NEW FIREMAN COMING INTO THE DEPT, WHEN WE ALLOW THOSE TYPES OF THINGS?I WAS AN OFFICER FOR 9 YEARS, I HAVE MADE MISTAKES AND WANTED THE YOUNG "GUYS" TO LIKE ME. HOWEVER I HAVE SEEN WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DONT LEAD BY EXAMPLE. LEAD BY EXAMPLE......YOU CAN NOT ENFORCE RULES TO YOUR MEMBERS WHEN U BREAK THEM YOUSRSELF..

[EJS1810 7]

It seems someone recognizes someone in the video because I cant tell what department they are from , volunteer or career. Yes it's a stupid video. We are all our worst enimees (sp). We all do things that in retrospect do not show our best. Try to remember that we are all held to a higher standard and base your actions on that

[JBE 328]

I'm gonna build a little on Ed's post. Thankfully, this thread wasn't locked before I could expound on it. (Thank you Seth and mods) This is what I see, a bunch of kids from LIDsville being stupid. Doesn't matter where it is, it paints the fire service AS A WHOLE as unprofessional.

Let's knock it off with this paid vs. vollie Schmutz already. As a member of this forum who is neither(former vollie, present paid dispatcher), it's getting a little tiresome. There's a video out there called "Posting and You" Maybe somebody should make a video like it and put it on YouTube so people who have some shred of common sense will think twice before putting something online that could get them in some trouble, or make them look like bigger idiots than they are.

[richg67 0]

Why does it always come down to Career VS. Volunteer? Stupidity like this has no place in the fire service, reglardless of career vs. volunteer. Let's not debate who does more stupid things........What does our customer think about this behavior?

We need to stop this "arrogance" in the FDs that the firehouse and the trucks are "thiers" and their club or playground, and not the trusted possessions of the taxpayers.

The leaders need to foster this change in attitude - Commissioners and Chiefs, etc. This makes me think back 30 years when add FDs acted like this. It was expected.

[efd184 59]

Not to knock you but this does happen in the paid departments. This comment is coming from a fellow career member. What happens on St. Patricks Day in the city. Are you not in uniform representing your fire department? Unfortunately this happens in both sides of the F.D. There are repercussions in the vol side of it too like getting kicked out to even being arrested. So don't go firing out comments before you do your research.

The guys on st patty day arent driving around in rigs! Messing with gear that someones life is counting on! Unless you know and have seen?

[BFD2553 75]

It wasn't them, the next town south of them that had the problem. The company with the Gieco mascot name.

[/quote

Patch says V.S. on them- P.S. The guy took the video down.

Edited January 28, 2008 by BFD2553

[eckyphats 0]

yep they did.. maybe it had something to do with a nice little comment I left on there