A Message To The Youth Of This Forum

[x635 4,066]

I'd like to take a moment to reach out to the youth of this forum.

THE biggest complaint I receive about this forum is about our younger members, the teenage crowd, who speak beyond their knowledge or place.

Please don't get me wrong, we welcome EVERYONE to this forum, and I'm in no way discouraging anyone to post.

I just want to point out to our younger members that's there's a great deal of members on this forum who have a wide array of knowledge and experience.

Many of these member are people to look up to, and learn from. Instead of posting your reply, take a moment to read the thread, ask questions, and give members with the factual information or information based on experience a chance to answer.

Think about it this way: You've been a firefighter for 20 years and come to this forum to share information with those with a common interest. However, you are outspoken by members that are much younger then you, fresh out of FFI or haven't even taken a class, who speak about your job like they've been doing it forever as well. How would you feel? Wouldn't you be turned off?

I, and I want others to realize this is the internet generation, and this is how many teenagers and young adults communicate. Many are familiar with communicating on the internet, and it's part of our daily lives. Whereas the 20 year vet may not be as familiar with computer, and is still getting used to it- and we want to encourage them to post.

Also, keep an eye on your spelling and grammar- it reflects a great deal on your age and maturity.

These members have an incredible amount of knowledge and experience to share, and I want the younger members of this forum to realize and respect that.

Encourage their posting by asking questions, soliciting feedback on your experiences, etc. Also, be aware of how your behavior reflects on you. No one is impressed by how much you know, rather they are impressed by how much you WANT to know. Get it?

Thanks for reading that little tidbit, and I hope some members will take this advice. Also, you can now see everyone's rank and affiliation type in their post.

Anyone feel free to add their input....

Thanks

Seth

[DonMoose 3]

I'd like to take a moment to reach out to the youth of this forum.

THE biggest complaint I receive about this forum is about our younger members, the teenage crowd, who speak beyond their knowledge or place.

Please don't get me wrong, we welcome EVERYONE to this forum, and I'm in no way discouraging anyone to post.

I just want to point out to our younger members that's there's a great deal of members on this forum who have a wide array of knowledge and experience.

Many of these member are people to look up to, and learn from. Instead of posting your reply, take a moment to read the thread, ask questions, and give members with the factual information or information based on experience a chance to answer.

Think about it this way: You've been a firefighter for 20 years and come to this forum to share information with those with a common interest. However, you are outspoken by members that are much younger then you, fresh out of FFI or haven't even taken a class, who speak about your job like they've been doing it forever as well. How would you feel? Wouldn't you be turned off?

I, and I want others to realize this is the internet generation, and this is how many teenagers and young adults communicate. Many are familiar with communicating on the internet, and it's part of our daily lives. Whereas the 20 year vet may not be as familiar with computer, and is still getting used to it- and we want to encourage them to post.

Also, keep an eye on your spelling and grammar- it reflects a great deal on your age and maturity.

These members have an incredible amount of knowledge and experience to share, and I want the younger members of this forum to realize and respect that.

Encourage their posting by asking questions, soliciting feedback on your experiences, etc. Also, be aware of how your behavior reflects on you. No one is impressed by how much you know, rather they are impressed by how much you WANT to know. Get it?

Thanks for reading that little tidbit, and I hope some members will take this advice. Also, you can now see everyone's rank and affiliation type in their post.

Anyone feel free to add their input....

Thanks

Seth

In other words, just because you're not a 'vet of 20 years' your ideas aren't important. As for the 'speaking out of place', I was unaware that members had to ask permission to post their thoughts. I myself was under the impression that this was a community forum, where both the young and seasoned professionals could communicate without being told nicely to 'shut up and listen'. I'm not knocking anyone, I enjoy reading the older guy's posts, but to limit younger members such as myself from communicating their thoughts is idiotic. I don't claim to know everything nor do I post as if I did, but everyone has to start somewhere. Way to make the young/probies feel welcome.

[EMT1094 0]

In other words, just because you're not a 'vet of 20 years' your ideas aren't important. As for the 'speaking out of place', I was unaware that members had to ask permission to post their thoughts. I myself was under the impression that this was a community forum, where both the young and seasoned professionals could communicate without being told nicely to 'shut up and listen'. I'm not knocking anyone, I enjoy reading the older guy's posts, but to limit younger members such as myself from communicating their thoughts is idiotic. I don't claim to know everything nor do I post as if I did, but everyone has to start somewhere. Way to make the young/probies feel welcome.

I don't believe that this was to discourage the younger generation to post. I think it was to try to make them more aware of what some of them are posting. I have only been a FF/EMT for about 5-6 years now. Although I feel I have learned a great deal, there is still soo much to learn. I was once told by an older much more seasoned brother that you never stop learning, and when you feel that you know it all is when you will get yourself hurt or killed. There are some people, both young and old, that post on here and think they know everything about everything. I try to read just about everything on here so I can continue to learn.

I think what was being expressed is that some in the younger generation (and I don't just mean age, I mean experience) that may not have as much knowledge as a more seasoned member are acting like they know it all. Maybe EVERYONE should take more time to read other's posts before shoving their own 2 cents in. We don't all know it all (although there are 2 or 3 of my "mentors" that I really think are close!!) and should use this forum to learn and for information in our fields.

Sorry if I am out of place for posting this, but I have felt this way for a few months now. I just didn't want to be the first to say something!!

As for the "older" more seasoned generation on this forum...THANK YOU for your knowledge and input. I myself have learned a few things here, and am happy that there are still some "good old boys" around to teach me a thing or two!!!

[PVFD113 6]

As the famous saying goes (here anyway) QTIP. If you feel this was aimed at you maybe you have a guilty conscience. There are a lot of members here that span a vast range in age as well as experience. Every dept operates differently in some fashion whether is be the fire-ground or business end. Read Seth's post carefully. He was not trying to bash or discourage anyone. We have all heard at one time or another "Think before you speak". I think this is more where he is leading.

Please almighty administrators correct me if I am wrong.

[Goose 188]

In other words, just because you're not a 'vet of 20 years' your ideas aren't important. As for the 'speaking out of place', I was unaware that members had to ask permission to post their thoughts. I myself was under the impression that this was a community forum, where both the young and seasoned professionals could communicate without being told nicely to 'shut up and listen'. I'm not knocking anyone, I enjoy reading the older guy's posts, but to limit younger members such as myself from communicating their thoughts is idiotic. I don't claim to know everything nor do I post as if I did, but everyone has to start somewhere. Way to make the young/probies feel welcome.

I think its this sort of banter that the OP was referring to.

Aside from the fact i feel EMS is underrepresented here (not the anyone's fault, just how it worked out i guess), one of the largest reasons my reading/posting has become more infrequent is due in large part because of too many whacker posts about lights and "omg was there a shooting?stabbing in xyz last night??!" or "omg why was xyz dept toned out? Is the county imploding?!" Honestly, who cares?

Recently, it seems there has been a push from the top down to stimulate some more mature and beneficial discussion. I think it's a great move and would love to see more of it.

[Guest]

too many whacker posts about lights and "omg was there a shooting?stabbing in xyz last night??!" or "omg why was xyz dept toned out? Is the county imploding?!" Honestly, who cares?

i find nothing wrong with wacker posts, i think it just feeds a sense of understanding and being nosey, and there's nothing wrong with that. i think that because people do CARE, makes this forum a little bit better. this site is a source for information, plain and simple.

and yes, if the county is imploding - please post it on emtbravo!

[LTNRFD 266]

and yes, if the county is imploding - please post it on emtbravo!

Which county ????? Who should run for the hills ???

[Guest]

Which county ????? Who should run for the hills ???

ALL COUNTIES! lol

and i don't know who should run to the hills, but i can tell you who will be...me! and i'll be playing iron maiden's "run to the hills" as i knock down little children to get to the top of the hill before you!

[Raz 14]

I think its this sort of banter that the OP was referring to.

Aside from the fact i feel EMS is underrepresented here (not the anyone's fault, just how it worked out i guess), one of the largest reasons my reading/posting has become more infrequent is due in large part because of too many whacker posts about lights and "omg was there a shooting?stabbing in xyz last night??!" or "omg why was xyz dept toned out? Is the county imploding?!" Honestly, who cares?

Recently, it seems there has been a push from the top down to stimulate some more mature and beneficial discussion. I think it's a great move and would love to see more of it.

Well said, about everything.

[DonMoose 3]

I think its this sort of banter that the OP was referring to.

That 'banter' is my opinion, which is obviously not welcome here. Nevertheless, I will continue to post my opinion regardless of who likes it or not. Thanks.

[jack10562 414]

DonMoose, I think you completely misunderstood Seth's post intent, at least that's the impression I get from reading your reply.

Where did you get the idea that anyone needs permission to post? Nobody is "limiting" or discouraging anyone.

I think the message that applies to everyone is think twice, post once.

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

DonMoose, I think you completely misunderstood Seth's post intent, at least that's the impression I get from reading your reply.

Where did you get the idea that anyone needs permission to post? Nobody is "limiting" or discouraging anyone.

I think the message that applies to everyone is think twice, post once.

If the message applies to everyone then why is it not titled and phrased to include everyone?

[Guest MVFD334]

ALL COUNTIES! lol

and i don't know who should run to the hills, but i can tell you who will be...me! and i'll be playing iron maiden's "run to the hills" as i knock down little children to get to the top of the hill before you!

Like that episode from seinfeld when george runs over the kids at that party when the fire breaks out?

[DonMoose 3]

DonMoose, I think you completely misunderstood Seth's post intent, at least that's the impression I get from reading your reply.

Where did you get the idea that anyone needs permission to post? Nobody is "limiting" or discouraging anyone.

I think the message that applies to everyone is think twice, post once.

In my original post I highlighted certain phrases in red, those phrases where the reasons for my comments. I understand his intent, however I don't agree with it. Seth stated that there are 'complaints' because of the younger members voicing their opinions/thoughts/knowledge etc. I found it very disrespectful the way it was worded, seemed to say that because you're 'young' that you're a moron who knows nothing and isn't an asset to a topic. As I've said before, I might not know everything, but if I have an opinion or and idea on what is going on I should be able to post without the 'complaints' of other members. Granted I may be taking this a little personal, but lately things have been said/done on this forum to make it very uncomfortable for anyone to post an opinion when it's different from another's. This wasn't directed at the community, it was directed at anyone who isn't a seasoned veteran. My opinion/thoughts aren't less valuable than anyone else's because I'm 'younger/less experienced' These forums should be used to learn from each other, not just from the 'gods' who run it.

[Guest]

Like that episode from seinfeld when george runs over the kids at that party when the fire breaks out?

lol exactly!

[JFLYNN 681]

I'd like to take a moment to reach out to the youth of this forum.

THE biggest complaint I receive about this forum is about our younger members, the teenage crowd, who speak beyond their knowledge or place.

Please don't get me wrong, we welcome EVERYONE to this forum, and I'm in no way discouraging anyone to post.

I just want to point out to our younger members that's there's a great deal of members on this forum who have a wide array of knowledge and experience.

Many of these member are people to look up to, and learn from. Instead of posting your reply, take a moment to read the thread, ask questions, and give members with the factual information or information based on experience a chance to answer.

Think about it this way: You've been a firefighter for 20 years and come to this forum to share information with those with a common interest. However, you are outspoken by members that are much younger then you, fresh out of FFI or haven't even taken a class, who speak about your job like they've been doing it forever as well. How would you feel? Wouldn't you be turned off?

I, and I want others to realize this is the internet generation, and this is how many teenagers and young adults communicate. Many are familiar with communicating on the internet, and it's part of our daily lives. Whereas the 20 year vet may not be as familiar with computer, and is still getting used to it- and we want to encourage them to post.

Also, keep an eye on your spelling and grammar- it reflects a great deal on your age and maturity.

These members have an incredible amount of knowledge and experience to share, and I want the younger members of this forum to realize and respect that.

Encourage their posting by asking questions, soliciting feedback on your experiences, etc. Also, be aware of how your behavior reflects on you. No one is impressed by how much you know, rather they are impressed by how much you WANT to know. Get it?

Thanks for reading that little tidbit, and I hope some members will take this advice. Also, you can now see everyone's rank and affiliation type in their post.

Anyone feel free to add their input....

Thanks

Seth

Seth, Nice post...you summed it up nicely...as to some of the responses you have gotten so far, an old mentor of mine used to say..."these guys don't have a clue and they never will"...but I'm sure your message was heard (and understood) loud and clear by a lot of your junior members...and that's what a good senior man does- tell the junior guys when they're out of line whether they want to hear it or not.

I and others would definitely participate a lot more here but for the annoying children...

BTW, I'm very proud of the fact that I haven't seen any posts here from the more junior members of my job, all of whom have been successful at a very competitive testing process to even get hired, then gone through 16 weeks of Proby school, then assigned to work in a Firehouse...and by junior, I mean, in my opinion, less than about 5 years on the job...all of that which is a lot more than many of the members who repeatedly make nonsensical posts on here..

and do you know why "our junior guys" wouldn't post (and many of the junior guys from other departments)?...because they have been trained by and work side by side with some of the best, and they at least know what they don't know...and they wouldn't want to embarass themselves or their department.

Funny thing is, guaranteed, these kids who are complaining about the way you have "spoken" to them now, will many years from now, be the ones crying the loudest about how the new guys talk too much and don't respect them as senior guys...

So, yes, "QTIP" kiddees, and we'll all just chuckle when you don't (because I know my post won't fix you- you never get it and never will, remember?)

[DonMoose 3]

Seth, Nice post...you summed it up nicely...as to some of the responses you have gotten so far, an old mentor of mine used to say..."these guys don't have a clue and they never will"...but I'm sure your message was heard (and understood) loud and clear by a lot of your junior members...and that's what a good senior man does- tell the junior guys when they're out of line whether they want to hear it or not.

I and others would definitely participate a lot more here but for the annoying children...

BTW, I'm very proud of the fact that I haven't seen any posts here from the more junior members of my job, all of whom have been successful at a very competitive testing process to even get hired, then gone through 16 weeks of Proby school, then assigned to work in a Firehouse...and by junior, I mean, in my opinion, less than about 5 years on the job...all of that which is a lot more than many of the members who repeatedly make nonsensical posts on here..

and do you know why "our junior guys" wouldn't post (and many of the junior guys from other departments)?...because they have been trained by and work side by side with some of the best, and they at least know what they don't know...and they wouldn't want to embarass themselves or their department.

Funny thing is, guaranteed, these kids who are complaining about the way you have "spoken" to them now, will many years from now, be the ones crying the loudest about how the new guys talk too much and don't respect them as senior guys...

So, yes, "QTIP" kiddees, and we'll all just chuckle when you don't (because I know my post won't fix you- you never get it and never will, remember?)

I'm sorry but you don't know me so don't assume anything (you know the saying about assuming). I'm not whining, crying or whatever other term you wish to use. Nor am I a child. I'm voicing my opinion which you have obviously missed or failed to read properly in your haste to talk down to those which disagree. Kudos to you and your junior members for being more EMTBravo Gods, who we all know all and are obviously the best. /Sarcasm. I've done my share of training and my share of 'proby status' and now I'm going to give my opinion when I feel a blatant mis justice is being carried out. I'm disappointed at this forum immensely.

Thanks for your kind words Sir

[Goose 188]

I'm sorry but you don't know me so don't assume anything (you know the saying about assuming). I'm not whining, crying or whatever other term you wish to use. Nor am I a child. I'm voicing my opinion which you have obviously missed or failed to read properly in your haste to talk down to those which disagree. Kudos to you and your junior members for being more EMTBravo Gods, who we all know all and are obviously the best. /Sarcasm. I've done my share of training and my share of 'proby status' and now I'm going to give my opinion when I feel a blatant mis justice is being carried out. I'm disappointed at this forum immensely.

Thanks for your kind words Sir

Injustice? It's the internet dude.

[DonMoose 3]

Injustice? It's the internet dude.

I'm not specifically talking about this thread, but in general life.

But good point thanks. That was my point with the BNN thread, but everyone failed to see that.

Edited July 22, 2008 by DonMoose

[ex-commish 490]

In other words, just because you're not a 'vet of 20 years' your ideas aren't important. As for the 'speaking out of place', I was unaware that members had to ask permission to post their thoughts. I myself was under the impression that this was a community forum, where both the young and seasoned professionals could communicate without being told nicely to 'shut up and listen'. I'm not knocking anyone, I enjoy reading the older guy's posts, but to limit younger members such as myself from communicating their thoughts is idiotic. I don't claim to know everything nor do I post as if I did, but everyone has to start somewhere. Way to make the young/probies feel welcome.

First to Seth....good post. Makes lots of sense.

Now to DonMoose. I think you need to read Seth's poat again. He wasn't telling anyone what they can or can not post. Maybe I am used to an era when a probie was told to keep quiet and learn but that was 27 years ago and times have changed I guess which at times reading some of the posts in here I have to scratch my head. There are people who post on here who have forgotten what I have yet to learn and all is asked is some respect as would be in any firehouse.

[ex-commish 490]

i find nothing wrong with wacker posts,

Doesn't surprise me.

[DonMoose 3]

First to Seth....good post. Makes lots of sense.

Now to DonMoose. I think you need to read Seth's poat again. He wasn't telling anyone what they can or can not post. Maybe I am used to an era when a probie was told to keep quiet and learn but that was 27 years ago and times have changed I guess which at times reading some of the posts in here I have to scratch my head. There are people who post on here who have forgotten what I have yet to learn and all is asked is some respect as would be in any firehouse.

I understand what Seth is saying, and I agree with the concept because I've seen sometimes where topics have gone wacky. I may have jumped the gun replying, but it's all my opinion. I'm not asking anyone to agree with me, but to see where I'm coming from. I have a lot of respect for the members here, nothing disrespectful was intended in my original post, just my opinion being voiced. Oh well. With that being said, I'm not going to continue this on any further since it's pointless.

[E58RET 24]

To qoute an old timer whenI first went on the job "son I was wringing out my socks when your mamma was wringing out your diaper'. TO THOSE YOUNGER MEMBERS WHO POST, YES OUR "OLDTIMERS" HAVE A WEALTH OF KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERIENCE!Seth's post tried to point out to you that by causing some of us from refraining from posting YOU are missing that experience and knowledge.

[OnTheWheel 43]

Not talking to anyone in particular: you can read as many books as you want, go to a ton of training classes (a "junior" member doesnt usually have a family, full time job, as much responsibility etc so they have the luxury of attending a lot of classes, as I did) but you will never, I repeat never, get the "knowledge" you get from doing your time "on the streets" or however you want to put it. A book/class paints a pretty picture and yes you are prepared for a situation, but when things go wrong, the only thing that will help you is experience. With time, you get to see how to react to, and overcome, these imperfections that they cant write in a book. I agree that the "youth" of the forums should give their imput, but know where the line is and stay well behind it. Again, Im not directing this at one person.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

While I conceed that I do not have vast experience and training in emergency services yet, I am still relatively new, it should also be noted that there are certain "senior" people in the emergency services community who are resistant to change by younger generation... vis a vis the "this is the way we've always done it" crowd. Experience can lead to arrogance sometimes that resists safety precautions. I'm not trying to start a fight, but a stubborn senior firefighter can be just as dangerous as a stubborn junior one. Food for thought.

Edited July 22, 2008 by SageVigiles

[GoDucks23 6]

I think that by saying the vets have all to offer and the youth have nothing is alittle ridiculos. At least that is what I took out of the post. In my opinion the vets have great knowledge and I have great respect for the old timers. But I also think the youth can bring new life and new ways things should be done in all fields of life. We should sometimes give the kids a chance in all we do. Just cause something has been done for 20 years one way doesnt mean that a change is always a bad thing. Sometimes we need to change and move on with new ideas to not only better ourselves but to also be more proficient at what we do. Just my opinion. All memebers can offer great things we just need to listen sometimes and look beyond the age of the people behind the posts. I bet if there was no age range next to the posts, some of the youngsters posts would have people thinking they came from a long time vet and some posts that did come from a long time vet we would think came from a youngster. Again this is just my opinion and by no means am I trying to start a fight with anyone. Just wanted to voice it.

[moggie6 54]

I'm not a cop by any means...but when I got hired I read this in 911 Uniforms in Poughkeepsie....

The Difference Between

Rookie Cops and Veteran Cops

A Rookie loses his lunch at a homicide scene.

A Veteran eats his lunch at a homicide scene.

A Rookie uses McDonalds drive thru so he won't miss a call.

A Veteran spends 45 minutes drinking coffee at Dunkin Donuts.

You can't read a Rookies name plate because it's polished so brightly.

A Veteran doesn't wear one for liability reasons.

A Rookie puts to much in reports.

A Veteran doesn't put enough into reports.

A Rookie loves foot pursuits.

A Veteran makes the rookie do foot pursuits.

A Rookie is given 40 hours training on communications at the academy.

A Veteran was given 40 rounds of ammunition when he left the academy.

A Rookie wants everyone to know he is a cop.

A Veteran doesn't want anyone to know he is a cop.

A Rookie loves to find stolen vehicles.

A Veteran doesn't care about stolen vehicles unless someone is in them.

A Rookie can spot an expired tag at 50 yards.

A Veteran can't spot anything at 50 yards.

A Rookie spends 2 hours on a follow up.

A Veteran gives the follow up to detectives.

A Rookie thinks every death is a homicide.

A Veteran thinks every death is a suicide.

A Rookie calls the brass by their rank.

A Veteran calls the brass by their first name.

A Rookie carries a laptop computer.

A Veteran writes on his hand.

A Rookie checks out deserted spots in hope of finding a drug deal in progress.

A Veteran checks out deserted spots in hope of finding a place to sleep.

What Seth said to the younger members wasn't to be taken personally...just sometime the senior guys know best!

[Danger 160]

Uhh, Moggie, I think that kind of went the wrong way. I guess I'll stick to being young and trying my best everyday before I get old, jaded and lazy as that insinuates.

I agree with Seth totally and you'll never catch me arguing with people or talking like a know it all.

[DaRock98 76]

I think that by saying the vets have all to offer and the youth have nothing is alittle ridiculos. At least that is what I took out of the post. In my opinion the vets have great knowledge and I have great respect for the old timers. But I also think the youth can bring new life and new ways things should be done in all fields of life. We should sometimes give the kids a chance in all we do. Just cause something has been done for 20 years one way doesnt mean that a change is always a bad thing. Sometimes we need to change and move on with new ideas to not only better ourselves but to also be more proficient at what we do. Just my opinion. All memebers can offer great things we just need to listen sometimes and look beyond the age of the people behind the posts. I bet if there was no age range next to the posts, some of the youngsters posts would have people thinking they came from a long time vet and some posts that did come from a long time vet we would think came from a youngster. Again this is just my opinion and by no means am I trying to start a fight with anyone. Just wanted to voice it.

I have to agree with this post. I don't think Seth's post was meant to offend anyone(unlike some of the other posts by some "veterans" on this site) but to encourage people to think before they post. Maybe if these veterans want respect they should give a little respect as well to the younger crowd. Today I saw a post on this site that said "For a little kid your are real annoying" I have NEVER seen a younger member write something as immature and disrespectful as that on this site. So just maybe this thread should be titled to EVERYONE on the site and not just the youth.

[JM15 386]

and do you know why "our junior guys" wouldn't post (and many of the junior guys from other departments)?...because they have been trained by and work side by side with some of the best, and they at least know what they don't know...and they wouldn't want to embarass themselves or their department.

So your saying that it is embarassing to want to learn? Wow that certainly goes against everything i've been taught by instructors and "senior men" whom I respect greatly. Seth wasn't it your intention to create this forum to promote the sharing of knowledge and education throughout the emergency services community and between departments? Not everybody does things the same way, maybe you can learn to do your job better by learning how other areas do it. I might be wrong but that was the impression that I got from your post (I'm sure that you will correct me if i'm wrong).

You have to remember that the youth is the future of the fire service everywhere. I know that personally I try to learn as much as I can. That is the main reason that I was drawn to this site in the first place. This is a place where you can learn from the experiences of more experienced vets. BUT I think that lately more and more people are becoming disillusioned from this site for many reasons, including this topic.